SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Fingolfin_Noldor » 2009-09-28 10:04am

Could we have a fixed tech tree for once and not endless fudging around?

I'm not sure I am 100% committed to this game, and I will wait and see for the time being.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby RogueIce » 2009-09-28 11:18am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Could we have a fixed tech tree for once and not endless fudging around?

Well, we would have history as a guide if we did an earlier history. Sure some things might be sped up a little so we're not waiting around forever, but nobody will have nuclear powered battleships within the first five years, either.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I'm not sure I am 100% committed to this game, and I will wait and see for the time being.

Yeah. I'm a mod in SDN Wars so that sort of takes a priority, as well as real life which throws odd wrenches into my schedule. So we'll see. For me I think it depends a lot on the time setting. 1935 I can probably get behind, but 1900 is a bit iffy for me. But we'll see.

PeZook wrote:
Steve wrote:I know a few of you are still thinking of this one. I'm not saying "Let's kill SDN World 2 and set up 3 right now", but rather reflecting what can be done next time to improve upon bumps we found this time around for when we inevitably start up World #3.


Let's face it: you are. And perhaps it's time to discuss the merits of continuing the game.

Seeing that activity had obviously declined due to many concerns, I guess you guys may just go ahead with SDN world 3 anyway. I'm saying "you guys" because I won't participate in another STGOD for a good, long while.

Personally, I intend to, ah, wrap up the current plot (not so current anymore, though), and then move on so that we can declare victory. I have something in mind for an awesome epilogue, though I won't reveal it untill we've decided to finish the game.

Of course, as long as even a ocuple of players decide to keep playing, there's no reason to murder this STGOD. Then again, there's no reason to hold off on the other one, too.

One thing I at least need to do is resolve the Camilla thing, once and for all. Then I can be happy with declaring that 'I won' this round.

Speaking of which, I need to send you that Prime Noir idea I had, don't I? Shit. Hopefully by tomorrow.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2009-09-28 11:43am

I really really - REALLY - need to get back on PRIME NOIR. I'm so sorry guys, for being not active enough, but real life is goddamn fucking wasting. But I so totally want to go on with PRIME NOIR because, shit, as they say in Metal Gear Solid - SHROOM, IT'S NOT OVER YET! THERE'S NO ESCAPE!!!

PeZook, have you changed any of the plans much in light of my being a totally lazy and useless shitpiece? :(
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby PeZook » 2009-09-28 01:09pm

Yeah, because I'm so totally awesome I haven't written anything in like three weeks.

:P

No. But I really, really do intend to start moving along tomorrow. With the Kamila thing, too.

And if we decide to end the game with Prime Noir, then I shall reveal the idea I had for the epilogue :)
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Lonestar » 2009-09-28 01:10pm

PeZook wrote:Yeah, because I'm so totally awesome I haven't written anything in like three weeks.

:P

No. But I really, really do intend to start moving along tomorrow. With the Kamila thing, too.

And if we decide to end the game with Prime Noir, then I shall reveal the idea I had for the epilogue :)



We still need to kick off the coup in Japanistan.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Steve » 2009-09-28 01:28pm

PeZook wrote:
Steve wrote:I know a few of you are still thinking of this one. I'm not saying "Let's kill SDN World 2 and set up 3 right now", but rather reflecting what can be done next time to improve upon bumps we found this time around for when we inevitably start up World #3.


Let's face it: you are. And perhaps it's time to discuss the merits of continuing the game.

Seeing that activity had obviously declined due to many concerns, I guess you guys may just go ahead with SDN world 3 anyway. I'm saying "you guys" because I won't participate in another STGOD for a good, long while.

Personally, I intend to, ah, wrap up the current plot (not so current anymore, though), and then move on so that we can declare victory. I have something in mind for an awesome epilogue, though I won't reveal it untill we've decided to finish the game.

Of course, as long as even a ocuple of players decide to keep playing, there's no reason to murder this STGOD. Then again, there's no reason to hold off on the other one, too.


:(

It'll suck not having you, but that's actually why I didn't think SDN World 3 would start soon. I figured some people would want to take a break, so to speak, or participate in other STGODs like Rogue, and that this would give us time to negotiate and determine stuff like starting year, tech level, system refinement, etc. I wasn't even planning on bringing this up for another month or two, but I had a couple requests to start the issue up now and figured "why not?".

Anyway, look forward to the awesome epilogue. I've thought of a couple myself but I'm interesting to know what you have in mind.

CmdrWilkens wrote:Which is why I would press that we need some sort of naval construction limitation device akin (akin not exactly the same) to the one I proposed for this game. If you know that you can't build BBs particularly Dreadnought class BBs then you have to go shop from somebody who has the spare yard capacity.


Wilkens, that is precisely what I intend my service specialization point system to be. The higher your points in the navy, the better ships you can build, with a certain threshold being mandatory before you can build dreadnought-style BBs. (Carriers would require both a minimum naval score and air score, assuming we do an interbellum-period game).

Now, if you're also referring to quantity of ships one can build, we can easily tinker with the proposed system to say that so many points gives you so many construction slipways. The player would have to also state where his yards are.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Czechmate » 2009-09-28 01:34pm

Well, you were kinda supposed to start a separate thread for this, remember? A workshop separate from the SDNW2 chat so 2 can proceed as normal?

:)
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Steve » 2009-09-28 01:39pm

Czechmate wrote:Well, you were kinda supposed to start a separate thread for this, remember? A workshop separate from the SDNW2 chat so 2 can proceed as normal?

:)


I didn't think a separate thread would be quite necessary yet for just the reasons I stated (and because making an entirely new thread might send the wrong message to people who want to continue this one for awhile). Though if we're really going to discuss this strongly now I suppose I should start one. Maybe ask Bean to split these posts off?
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Czechmate » 2009-09-28 02:13pm

Steve wrote:
Czechmate wrote:Well, you were kinda supposed to start a separate thread for this, remember? A workshop separate from the SDNW2 chat so 2 can proceed as normal?

:)


I didn't think a separate thread would be quite necessary yet for just the reasons I stated (and because making an entirely new thread might send the wrong message to people who want to continue this one for awhile). Though if we're really going to discuss this strongly now I suppose I should start one. Maybe ask Bean to split these posts off?


Ask been to split em off and sticky, I suppose. That way we can just go back to it anytime somebody's got a suggestion without digging back through pages.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby DarthShady » 2009-09-28 02:52pm

It is a sad day for the Union. :(

Goodbye Comrade! *salutes*


PRIME NOIR must continue!!! :D I'll see if I can write up a part myself.

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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby K. A. Pital » 2009-09-29 02:01am

*hums*

That's cool Shady.

Now that I'm dead, I'm officially dropping out and whenever SDN World 3 starts, just call me. I'll be there to take the helm of the Soviet Union or some sort of other weird quasi-Russian state once more.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Lonestar » 2009-09-29 07:08am

"Here, cleverly disguised as a Bomb, is a bomb." :D
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby PeZook » 2009-09-29 08:08am

Hmm...we really should upgrade airport security to account for KILLER CYBORGS.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Lonestar » 2009-09-29 08:12am

PeZook wrote:Hmm...we really should upgrade airport security to account for KILLER CYBORGS.


Except, his cover is as an InGen spokesman at a Robotics conference...to the point that someone from a NFT company had gone through security the day before. :P
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby PeZook » 2009-09-29 08:13am

I ment in a general sense. Because metal detectors and x-rays won't quite cut it when somebody hides a kilo of Semtex inside his chromed robo-arm :D
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

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Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.

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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby RogueIce » 2009-09-29 08:49am

Stas Bush wrote:Now that I'm dead, I'm officially dropping out and whenever SDN World 3 starts, just call me. I'll be there to take the helm of the Soviet Union or some sort of other weird quasi-Russian state once more.

I would make a crack about you having no imagination, but then I was fully intending to go with the Shinra Republic yet again. :D

BTW, since I need a snarky comment in here today:
Darth Shady wrote:Stanislav was dead. The reality of it had hit President Shady hard. He lost one of his best friends in this world, he lost his mentor and his closest ally puppet master - it was not easy. [Now he'd have to make his own decisions.]

You didn't think we'd let that meme die just because Stas did, did you? :razz:

Anyway, I had an idea for game three that was basically taking our world and going back into the past with it; that way, we wouldn't waste all the time and effort on the maps, our histories, and so forth. However, some things would be a little different. There would be a Point of Divergance with the history we initially wrote up, setting up a slightly different '1935' (I do like that time period but am amenable to others) than what SDN World Redux's populace knew.

Of course some things wouldn't last: the NFT, PacUnion, and UCSR come to mind. Still, I think it would be interesting to see the F-ing Continent back in the days where they were agitating for their freedoms. Perhaps the players would take the role of semi-autonomous Governor-Generals appointed from the local populace, nominally loyal to their colonial masters but secretly scheming to break away.

Or not. The new map does include a bunch of new islands and such that you could make a whole new country and persona for yourself if you desired. Anyway, I'll probably bounce ideas off Steve before I post up a framework in here. I've got time, since this game isn't dead yet.

Although I do have one solid idea. We name it SDN World: 33 1/3 :D
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Bluewolf » 2009-09-29 09:08am

With what you said Rogue, I am going to bring up something that has been on a few peoples minds. Basically some of us are not that keen on how the last game went in the fact that both CATO and MESS formed into one solid block and forced the game into a cold war which enver really went anywhere. I can respect that people want to form alliances with others but I for a fact don't really want to see that repeated over again in a new setting. I want to see new alliances etc. I am just bringing it up as it is a cornern for some.

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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Siege » 2009-09-29 09:17am

RogueIce wrote:Of course some things wouldn't last: the NFT, PacUnion, and UCSR come to mind. Still, I think it would be interesting to see the F-ing Continent back in the days where they were agitating for their freedoms.


I just spent an entire game getting walked over by Great Powers whilst trying to work myself up to a position of moderate significance. I think I'll pass on a game where my hard-earned status is once more reduced to that of an insignificant colony.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby RogueIce » 2009-09-29 09:20am

Bluewolf wrote:With what you said Rogue, I am going to bring up something that has been on a few peoples minds. Basically some of us are not that keen on how the last game went in the fact that both CATO and MESS formed into one solid block and forced the game into a cold war which enver really went anywhere. I can respect that people want to form alliances with others but I for a fact don't really want to see that repeated over again in a new setting. I want to see new alliances etc. I am just bringing it up as it is a cornern for some.

Yeah, I know. In my scenario, we would have no real alliances. Maybe at best a 'proto-MESS' between Tian Xia, Shinra and Wilkonia. However, with the PoD I mentioned above, there would be serious question as to whether the MESS would ever even form. As the 'proto-MESS' is little more than an agreement by the various American powers to not fuck with each other (too much) and that if anyone tries to mess with America, they'll get the shit kicked out of 'em. Sort of like a Monroe Doctrine if Canada and Mexico had signed on to it with the US or something.

As far as alliances or the lack thereof, it depends on the setting. WWI could have been quite ugly, and might have been all over the world, in a sense, in that the OC conflict 'inspired' others to make a play for something, so it'd be more a collection of wars all over the world that occured at around the same time. That should leave some pretty good scars on the international playing field. Depending on how the wars went, and who fought who, that would determine who would be in good relations, who has an uneasy trust/distrust mindset...and who is looking over the border just waiting for the next flashpoint.

Siege wrote:
RogueIce wrote:Of course some things wouldn't last: the NFT, PacUnion, and UCSR come to mind. Still, I think it would be interesting to see the F-ing Continent back in the days where they were agitating for their freedoms.


I just spent an entire game getting walked over by Great Powers whilst trying to work myself up from a position of insignificance. I think I'll pass on a game where my hard-earned status is once more reduced to that of a colony.

Well like I said, it was an option for people who wanted it. And we have enough new landmasses out there you can pick a new nation and a new destiny if you don't want to go that route.

EDIT: And way back in the day I mentioned to Steve that a Round Three could have us retain memories of being somebody plucked from a message board to run a nation (because I kinda like that element of 'fish out of water' except Q would blank our memories of it. So far as we know, it was 2008 when we left and this is only Round 1. And as an added bonus, he'd have us believe we're the only person there is in this scenario, and would put in mental blocks to make sure that the more unimaginitive country names *cough*Wilkonia*cough* wouldn't tip us off to the fact there are other Players in the game. With a judicious bit of mod-fu to make sure nobody can make the connection/say the wrong thing to someone and realize "Holy shit it's you!" or anything like that.

Essentially divorcing us from "so-and-so were friends on SDN so they're allies here" while letting us keep the 'holy shit what the fuck am I doing as a leader?' thing. And would enforce more realism on our actions, since as far as we know, all the other leaders are actual leaders and we're not just fucking with other SDNers (which was to be the intent of this game, but actually enforced in Round Three).

Just my overly complicated idea. :D
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This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
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The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Siege » 2009-09-29 10:10am

To be brutally honest I feel the incorporation of the MESS alliance - and worse, having the majority of its members gathered on one unassailable continent - was in all likelihood the biggest mistake of round #2. It instantly robbed the game of a lot of potential intrigue and the de-facto MESS hegemony forced an us-vs-them mentality that got very tiresome very quickly. I don't think I'll be playing another game if it's going to be more of the same in that respect.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Ryan Thunder » 2009-09-29 10:48am

The problem isn't that characters knew each other. It's that they took their former friendship to the utter extremes of absurdity.

That deal with Shep and Lonestar (of "He killed millions of people in this game but I knew him before so its ok and I'm perfectly sane and quite morally justified in protecting him thanks" infamy) is probably the most egregious example I can think of.

Also I'm going to echo Siege's concerns. Unassailable MESS superbloc + bad roleplayers with superpower nations = epic pain in the ass.
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Lonestar » 2009-09-29 01:01pm

Ryan Thunder wrote:
Also I'm going to echo Siege's concerns. Unassailable MESS superbloc + bad roleplayers with superpower nations = epic pain in the ass.



I'm not sure someone playing as a landlocked country with a good-sized navy should be allowed to accuse others of "bad Roleplaying" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Bluewolf » 2009-09-29 01:08pm

Odd choices of Ryan aside Lonestar. This is one of my fears. I can understand that cooperating with your fellow MESS members on various stuff like you did is fun. As Siege pointed out. Even when I came in in about 2012-3, it was starting to become a cold war. I am not going to play blame game but thats how it felt.

It's kind of up to you weather you guys want to play ball, I know at least one does which is good.

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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby Lonestar » 2009-09-29 01:10pm

Siege wrote:
I just spent an entire game getting walked over by Great Powers whilst trying to work myself up to a position of moderate significance. I think I'll pass on a game where my hard-earned status is once more reduced to that of an insignificant colony.


Hmm...but the early 20th Century the "tech gap" was such that even a "smallish" country could afford to play a role on the world stage, if only through the possession of a handful of BBs.

(Hell Belgium took over the entire Congo watershed)
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

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Re: SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread X

Postby CmdrWilkens » 2009-09-29 02:07pm

Bluewolf wrote:Odd choices of Ryan aside Lonestar. This is one of my fears. I can understand that cooperating with your fellow MESS members on various stuff like you did is fun. As Siege pointed out. Even when I came in in about 2012-3, it was starting to become a cold war. I am not going to play blame game but thats how it felt.

It's kind of up to you weather you guys want to play ball, I know at least one does which is good.


Well aside from blaming the MESS while simultaneously disclaiming the intent to play the blame game I don't think it all that likely such a massive alliance would work again. Hell in game 1 we were all opposed against Bean for much of the game despite him being a Mess member. This game I think was more the result of geography than anything else (at least with the TX-SR-W trifecta) and the allure of being part of the largest currency union which could only have positive economic effects.

Honestly for game 3 I'd just use the real world map, take a real world departure point (in terms of the existing copus of law and territory) but then shake things up a bit (maybe divide the US up, leave Germany divided, China unified, Poland independent, etc) before setting up our nations.
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