nBSG ep 4.15: "No Exit" Talkback (SPOILERS)

[Spanky The Dolphin]

-What will become of Anders? The end of the episode is certainly rather ominous...but the doctors are convinced he'll be fine.

IIRC, they thought he might be fine before Anders was actually hooked up to an EEG and Ms. Bedside Manner told Starbuck he was brain dead.

[LMSx]

No one has mentioned that "angels" came to the 5 and warned them that Earth was going to get nuked. head 6/head baltar?

oh yeah forgot about that. some saw a man, some saw a woman.

HOLY SHIT

MIND BLOWN

dots connecting

Yeah, that fits: but then what would Baltar's role be? Definitely not "Daniel", because he's not an artist.

Unless they meant 'con artist'.

What?

I'm not getting that. Is that from Razor? Also: Guardians?

Thanks for writing that up, MarshalPurnell.

[Anguirus]

^ Dude, I don't know if you can HAVE that bad of a bedside manner. Even on this show. Cottle flat out tells Starbuck "He's going to live." And then Starbuck's talking to Anders and Ishay says "He can't hear you. There's almost no brain activity" or some such. Sounds more like he's comatose...temporarily, one hopes.

Considering how much of a send-off they give characters like Cally, Kat, Gaeta...I think if they were for-reals killing Anders that would have made it a bit more of a moment. But hey, we'll see next week (or when Ron does his podcast).

[JME2]

"If you'll excuse me, I have people to kill."

God, I love Cavill; still my favorite of the 12 Models.

Anyway, great episode, and at last, answers to many questions we've had for over 5 years. The final episodes are still chugging along very well. If Moore and company can keep this up, it looks like it'll be finishing as strongly as it began.

5/5

[Koolaidkirby]

So I think I've got a pet theory on the "Daniel" thing,

its starbucks dad,

-She looked like she recognized the name.
-He was an "artist" what we know about Starbucks dad? he painted and played piano.
-If Starbucks dad was a Cylon, he'd be able to use the "Resurrection" technology on his daughter, saving her and leading her to Earth.


Although I'm a little foggy on the corruption thing, they only had the original so they were never mass produced right?

[CaptainChewbacca]

We really need a transcript of Cavil's 'I want to smell x-rays' monologue, because that was some top-notch villainy right there.

[Ford Prefect]

We really need a transcript of Cavil's 'I want to smell x-rays' monologue, because that was some top-notch villainy right there.

That's not how it goes. It's more like 'I want to see gamma rays. I want to hear x-rays. I want to smell ... dark matter.'

I really liked it. It really conveyed his position on the matter despite being pretty silly.

[Netko]

-What will become of Anders? The end of the episode is certainly rather ominous...but the doctors are convinced he'll be fine.

IIRC, they thought he might be fine before Anders was actually hooked up to an EEG and Ms. Bedside Manner told Starbuck he was brain dead.

My thinking is that by poking around his head they managed to trigger the Cylon download mechanism, which as a protection against brain damage wipes out the current brain and dumps it into a new body before it can be corrupted (its speculation, but pretty logical to do if you are essentially an computer-upload race at this point).

Anyway, great infodump episode. The pieces are really coming into place...

[Johonebesus]

I do wonder why the Thirteenth Tribe Cylons would give up immortality for procreation. Perhaps after who knows how many lifetimes they got tired of living, but might their descendants not want a chance to grow tired of life instead of being forced to die after a few decades? They traveled a fair distance from Kobol, so they could colonize other planets if their civilization became too crowded.

If Cavil was able to program the other models not to think about the Five, why didn't he just erase their knowledge all together?

It feels like they just came up with a thirteenth (more accurately eighth) model to explain either Thrace or Baltar. I'll be shocked if Daniel has nothing to do with either of them.

[His Divine Shadow]

I feel sorry for Ellen. It's like a parent who discovers that their child has committed a terrible crime.

Worse, her child's "teenaged rebellion" was to murder 20 billion people. What happened is becoming clear. It seems that Cavil raged against the humanity that Ellen and the other Four forced on him that he decided to kill all humans exactly because the Five Creators (it seems odd to call the first five Cylons "the Final Five") wanted them to love human beings and have the human experience.

I wonder if Cavil was ever a machine like a Centurion or something or if he was born as he was. Ellen alluded to him having some nasty "childhood" memories, wonder if that would then be from his time as a machine slave on the colonies?

[Turin]

Daniel is Starbuck, guys. And Cavil knows it -- I suspect he's the only one who knows at this point (although we'll find out Ellen learns next episode, I suspect). Remember how Ellen was saying what a sadist Cavil was? He interfered with the genetic material of the Daniel line, corrupting it. But let's say his corruption was imperfect and he fucked up the material enough that it was salvageable but now female. For starters, it would be a funny little tweak at the whole "OMG, Starbuck's a girl!" crowd. But the memories that Starbuck has implanted of her past include a really fucked up and destructive relationship with her mother. Cavil was jealous of Daniel's relationship with Ellen, and what better way to get his revenge?

Now the question is "where did Starbuck resurrect?" And I get the feeling we're going to find out next episode with wherever Ellen went.

[Gil Hamilton]

(Daniel, incidentally, is the Old Testament prophet most closely associated with visions of the Apocalypse. Take from that what you will...)

The episode was actually rather loaded with Christian mythological symbolism. The more striking one was when Cavil tells Boomer to spend some time with Ellen to learn all about why she was made so frakked up. Ellen tells her to listen for herself and come to the truth on her own... and offers her an apple.

Did they explain in the episode that the Centurions were based on the mind of a human? I kind of like the idea that religion was something the Centurions came to on their own, not something that was built into them.

[Johonebesus]

Did they explain in the episode that the Centurions were based on the mind of a human? I kind of like the idea that religion was something the Centurions came to on their own, not something that was built into them.

No, that comes from the new Caprica series and hasn't been revealed on BSG. They may not get into the Caprica material on this show. I wonder if we will see "angels" in Caprica. Given the design similarity between the "earth" and Colonial Centurions, there needs to be some sort of connection. I wonder if the the "earth' Cylons used that word too, since the reveals for Caprica explain how the word was coined in the Colonies.

[Vympel]

Fucking awesome episode.

Galactica serves as a metaphor for the human race and the Rebel Cylon relationship now - she needs the Cylon resin if she's going to hold it together.

[xerex]

Fucking awesome episode.

Galactica serves as a metaphor for the human race and the Rebel Cylon relationship now - she needs the Cylon resin if she's going to hold it together.

props to EJO . Adama's reactions to seeing his ship falling apart were truly moving.

[Gil Hamilton]

No, that comes from the new Caprica series and hasn't been revealed on BSG. They may not get into the Caprica material on this show. I wonder if we will see "angels" in Caprica. Given the design similarity between the "earth" and Colonial Centurions, there needs to be some sort of connection. I wonder if the the "earth' Cylons used that word too, since the reveals for Caprica explain how the word was coined in the Colonies.

I didn't know that was out yet. I thought that premiered in April.

[Gil Hamilton]

Something that occurs to me is that the thought that Earth was colonized by Cylons specifically might well be a matter of definition. For all intents and purposes, Earth could well have been populated simply by genetically enhanced human beings. Since the "Final Five" created the Cylons based on Earth stock, they could have gotten a false positive on Earth's population because they were looking for differences between Cylon stock and Twelve Colonies human stock. The difference is subtle. Not all the population of Earth were Cylons, but rather all Cylons were based on the population of Earth.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

No, that comes from the new Caprica series and hasn't been revealed on BSG. They may not get into the Caprica material on this show. I wonder if we will see "angels" in Caprica. Given the design similarity between the "earth" and Colonial Centurions, there needs to be some sort of connection. I wonder if the the "earth' Cylons used that word too, since the reveals for Caprica explain how the word was coined in the Colonies.

I didn't know that was out yet. I thought that premiered in April.

It actually doesn't start airing until 2010, although they're releasing the pilot on DVD in April.

But Sci-Fi has revealed enough information about the show's premise and background over the last year or so to put all this stuff together.

[TimothyC]

But hey, we'll see next week (or when Ron does his podcast).

For the record - the podcast is up.

[Johonebesus]

Something that occurs to me is that the thought that Earth was colonized by Cylons specifically might well be a matter of definition. For all intents and purposes, Earth could well have been populated simply by genetically enhanced human beings. Since the "Final Five" created the Cylons based on Earth stock, they could have gotten a false positive on Earth's population because they were looking for differences between Cylon stock and Twelve Colonies human stock. The difference is subtle. Not all the population of Earth were Cylons, but rather all Cylons were based on the population of Earth.

They are not just genetically enhanced since they can connect to fiber optic cables and interface directly with Colonial computers.
Spoiler

According to interviews, fifty years before BSG the Colonies were troubled with monotheistic terrorists. A young lady named Zoe was seduced and converted by a cult member. The two created computer copies of their personalities and then ran away together, but the fellow committed a suicide bombing, killing the girl and innocent bystanders. Zoe's father built a robot to carry the her copied personality, and so was born the first prototype Cylon. She's been referred to as the Cylon Eve. I haven't seen official statements that the Cylons got their religion from her though. That seems to be just an inference.

The One True God doesn't sound very loving and merciful. Why would Helen believe the Cylon god was so benevolent if his human followers were terrorists? I wonder if the Cylons did inherit their faith from Zoe or if they encountered god or "angels" later. There must be some sort of active intervention by someone besides the Five for Colonial Cylons to look so much like "earth" Cylons.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Found it! Awesome dialogue:

Cavil: Have you ever seen a star supernova? Well, i have. I saw a star explode and send out the building blocks of the universe. Other stars, other planets, and eventually, other life.

A supernova. Creation itself. I was there. I wanted to see it. And be part of the moment.

And you know how i perceived one of the most glorious events in the universe? With these ridiculous gelatinous orbs in my skull. With eyes designed to perceive only a tiny fraction of the em spectrum. With ears designed only to hear vibrations in the air.

I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear x-rays, and I wanna, I wanna smell dark matter!

Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly, because I have to, I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting, spoken language. But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me!

I'm a machine, and I could know much more, I could experience so much more, but I'm trapped in this absurd body!

And why?!

Because my...creators thought that "God" wanted it that way.

Making such a monologue work is something only a great actor can do, IMO.

[Sarevok]

*head explodes*

This episode is too much concentrated awesome to safely describe in words.

That is all I can say for now. Thoughts and speculations to follow once the euphoria wears off...

[Gil Hamilton]

They are not just genetically enhanced since they can connect to fiber optic cables and interface directly with Colonial computers.

Have we seen anyone other than Eights actually do that? I'm saying that the current 8 (7) Cylon models are based on Earth populations and suggesting that the reason they thought that all the people on Earth were Cylons is because they are comparing them to the modern Cylons and Colonial humans.

[Anguirus]

^ According to Jane Espenson, the only reason that we didn't see a Six do it in the webisodes is because scheduling conflicts prevented Tricia Helfer from participating. And the webisodes were conceptualized after the series ended.

So yeah, all the 1-8 Cylons can do that. Which, again, fits with Leoben's "silica pathways."

For the record - the podcast is up.

That was fast! Ok, off to the SciFi website...

[Gil Hamilton]

^ According to Jane Espenson, the only reason that we didn't see a Six do it in the webisodes is because scheduling conflicts prevented Tricia Helfer from participating. And the webisodes were conceptualized after the series ended.

So yeah, all the 1-8 Cylons can do that. Which, again, fits with Leoben's "silica pathways."

I don't doubt that 1-8 can do it. However, I question whether that trait come from Ellen and the others or it came from Cavil.