Bad books, bad books...

[Darth Nostril]

Anything by John Ringo.

[Mayabird]

It seems Samuel and I both forgot to mention a book we both loathed: The Celestine Prophecy.

I will repeat one line out of it. This line is seared into my memory, just like certain painful moments of my childhood. This one line will demonstrate how very, very bad this book was, without even bringing in all the rest of the total nonsense:

"He can't see us! We're vibrating too highly!"

[Atlan]

I remember a book where some intrepid explorers discover a huge dyson sphere. Afterwards one of the explorers accidentally witness the death of a senior corporate executives child, and realising he's doomed he flies off to the dysonsphere with his son and some of his crew.

That's just backstory though. Once they get there they begin to explore the dysonsphere, and colonists start spreading out. They get to a place far away from any gate, and run across an alien city where the natives come up to them in countless different vehicles; all of whom were handbuilt. When the exploration craft crashes what do you think the crew does?

Go on guess!

If you guessed that most of the crew began to weave strawhats, farm the soil, and bring in crops, trying to live on the land, then you're right. If you said patch together some jet aircraft from the wreckage and fly home, and indeed this was possible, then you're wrong.

In fact it seems that living on the Dysonsphere made you want to live off the land, build things with your own hands, and because of the enormous space there wasn't any mass produced stuff! This apparently was a natural consequence of having endless land to move into.

Can't remember the name but even as a child I found it incredibly annoying.

Orbitsville, by Bob Shaw.
And you'd be right, except for the fact that in the last chapter it is made clear that the Dyson sphere is a trap and makes you do those things. It's supposed to capture and hold everyone that comes across it, and it's heavily implied that it does so by mind control. It's been ages since I've read it, and I don't quite recall the reasons for this. I might still have the book somewhere.

[CaptHawkeye]

A lot of the excerpts from supposed "bad authors" in this thread are pretty interesting to read actually. The summary Zod posted on the first page reminds me of the kind of ass you'd expect to find on Fanfiction.net. Do publishers even bother with quality control these days? It seems like authors are able to routinely get away with the stupidest shit. (Not to mention consistently ripping each other off.)

I don't read a lot of fiction so i'm not sure if it counts in the context of the thread, but for a school report, I had the misfortune of reading "Neoconservatism" by Irving Kristol. It's kind of like reading "Mien Kampf" or "The Communist Manifesto" in that the author loves to talk about why his shit never stinks, everyone else's does, and you should listen to him or you'll end up in hell, etc.

What's funny is that at no point in any of those books does the author make any objective arguments, much less arguments that make sense. Yet somehow, all 3 of those books have spawned or inspired strong political movements.

Also, call me when people stop writing books about Vampires all the fucking time.

[CmdrWilkens]

I don't know if it quite falls into the "bad, bad" category or just the "Why coudn't you have stopped this series 3 books ago" category but I don't think I can ever forgive Orson Scott Card for Ender's Shadow. The Ender novels after the original were mostly useless and just way more words than needed to be put on paper to describe essentially nothing happening but that's okay, its bad but mostly just annoying bad rather than revolting bad. The "Shadow" series after Ender's Shadow is also somewhat enjoyable. The struggle is often at the level of a Tom Clancy novel without the America-wank or technical details but its certainly decent pop fiction and I don't mind the characters too much.

No the problem remains Ender's Shadow itself. I don't even mean the writing or the plotline, all that is fine. Bean was probably the most interesting un-developed character in Ender's Game and giving him a side novel about how he came to be at Battle School and take part in the final fight would be fine. The problem is that when Card decided to write Bean he couldn't simply make a character who was another companion for Ender (the role Alai, and to a lesser extent Deek and Petra, served at first in the original). Nope you can't have another interesting but still flawed character, you can't have a new perspective on Ender's leadership from the bottom up. Instead Card had to create the world's biggest fucking Mary Sue ever...he's smarter than everybody, he's going to grow up bigger than everyone, he already see's what is coming 10 steps ahead btu somehow he's supposed to be the second fiddle? Are you kidding me?

Now if you read the book all by itself then maybe its okay but if you've read the original then come back for more in "Shadow" its just one gigantic fuck you after another.

[The Spartan]

There was a book I had set during the Vietnam war that I cannot for the life of me remember the name of and which I got rid of years ago. Something like "Into the Fire" I think?

The Fire Dream. That's what I was thinking of.

[Darth Wong]

I nominate the novelization of Tom Clancy's Endwar. I got like 30ish pages into and threw it into the bin. The damn thing read like a poorly written fanfic.

I don't know why people didn't tire of Tom Clancy a looong time ago. I remember reading The Hunt for Red October and really liking it. And then I read another book from him, and another, and another ... and then I realized that I actually couldn't stand his writing.

[The Yosemite Bear]

In the so bad it's good catagory, I recommend Horseclans. Mix Highlander, Gor, some Vampire Gothic, and Mad Max. And you end up with something that crosses the line and then goes back again.

oh and the writer was a also a porn screenplay writer, so the prevelent sex is at least decent.

the plotline: An immortal who can only die through lack of oxygen or decapitation takes a bunch of street kids after the end of WWIII and turns them into the reincarnation of Gengis Khan's golden hoard while they fight Environmentalist Cannibals, Bodysnatching Government psychic Vampires, Caligulesque Fundies, and Lesbian Survivalists.

[Drooling Iguana]

For all his flaws, Crichton at least realizes that Velociraptors are carnivores who'll likely view children as dinner.

So are wolves, yet we manage to keep their genetically-similar cousins in our homes without much trouble.

[Darth Wong]

I don't know if it quite falls into the "bad, bad" category or just the "Why coudn't you have stopped this series 3 books ago" category but I don't think I can ever forgive Orson Scott Card for Ender's Shadow. The Ender novels after the original were mostly useless and just way more words than needed to be put on paper to describe essentially nothing happening but that's okay, its bad but mostly just annoying bad rather than revolting bad. The "Shadow" series after Ender's Shadow is also somewhat enjoyable. The struggle is often at the level of a Tom Clancy novel without the America-wank or technical details but its certainly decent pop fiction and I don't mind the characters too much.

No the problem remains Ender's Shadow itself. I don't even mean the writing or the plotline, all that is fine. Bean was probably the most interesting un-developed character in Ender's Game and giving him a side novel about how he came to be at Battle School and take part in the final fight would be fine. The problem is that when Card decided to write Bean he couldn't simply make a character who was another companion for Ender (the role Alai, and to a lesser extent Deek and Petra, served at first in the original). Nope you can't have another interesting but still flawed character, you can't have a new perspective on Ender's leadership from the bottom up. Instead Card had to create the world's biggest fucking Mary Sue ever...he's smarter than everybody, he's going to grow up bigger than everyone, he already see's what is coming 10 steps ahead btu somehow he's supposed to be the second fiddle? Are you kidding me?

Now if you read the book all by itself then maybe its okay but if you've read the original then come back for more in "Shadow" its just one gigantic fuck you after another.

To be honest, I got about halfway through the first book Ender's Game while waiting in a doctor's office recently, and I saw real problems already. The problems that bugged me were:

1) The religion-wanking. It bugged me how he kept returning to this "everyone has a sacred but forbidden religion that the fascist government oppresses" cliche.

2) The Jew wanking. Seriously, he actually made a point of saying that all of the great military leaders are always Jews. That stuck out to me like a sore thumb; I actually stopped reading for a minute out of shock, before I continued.

3) The "well-adjusted person can't possibly be a military leader" meme. Seriously, I'm really sick of that.

4) The fact that about halfway through the book, it's just not grabbing me. I don't particularly care how it ends. I don't like anyone in the book. I don't even feel like bothering to read the second half. I'm sick of the endless descriptions of the mind games they're playing with him. I get it already: they want to make him a ruthless cold-hearted Uber-Military-Man. I'm tired of seeing the same "break him down, fuck with him, watch him overcome" cycle over and over.

[CaptHawkeye]

I nominate the novelization of Tom Clancy's Endwar. I got like 30ish pages into and threw it into the bin. The damn thing read like a poorly written fanfic.

I don't know why people didn't tire of Tom Clancy a looong time ago. I remember reading The Hunt for Red October and really liking it. And then I read another book from him, and another, and another ... and then I realized that I actually couldn't stand his writing.

He recycles his own stuff so shamelessly that it becomes a joke. Pretty much all of his books consist of a "Villain of the Week" mixed with some kind of terrorist group and conspiracy shit which invariably leads to.....nothing happening at all, since he can't imagine a world beyond his status quo. As a result, every book he's written feels like an episode of Power Rangers.

[The Yosemite Bear]

your forgetting, Clark and John Wank

[Samuel]

I think a person has a sig here that best sums it up-"I liked Enders game before I discovered the wonders of self abuse".
Spoiler

Of course, there are much more disturbing things in the book. Like the fact that the main character slaughters people, but it is their fault for making him do it- it is all there fault!
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm

Seriously, he exterminates an entire species and it isn't his fault. It gets worse when you have Enders Shadow where Bean realizes it and puts the pieces together. Big plot hole.

And a word of advice- don't post any comments about the G-that which must not be named. Some people here have had bad experiences with its followers.

The communities for books can be scary. The Objectivists are an obvious case, but Ishmael also has one:
http://www.ishmael.org/welcome.cfm
Remember kids, what Africa needs- MORE tribalism. You think I am kidding don't you? Book three they have mention of a guy who was attempting to make a group insular and work like a tribe in Congo.

[Xess]

His work is full of double standards, his World War series has a human kid raised by aliens being a fruitcake but the aliens raised by humans to have no visible troubles whatsoever.

In fairness, in the last book we get to see those aliens when they're grown up, and one of them is implied to be a rather psychologically messed up individual (the one who became a game-show host).

But yeah, I had way less sympathy for Sam Yeager than the author seemed to.

I meant to write "seem to" there. I also haven't finished Homeward Bound, kinda got sick of the
"America! Fuck Yeah!" sentiment as presented by Saint Arrogant Ass Sam Yeager. At least Turtledove isn't as bad as I thought we was previously.

[Ender]

"The Oath"

Think a combination of "Jaws" and "The Lottery" but with a dragon. Sounds like a fun read right? A town out in the middle of bum-fuck Alberta has been run by the founding families since the pioneer days. These guys discovered the animals and know how to keep them appeased and hibernating, or they can sic it on people. Biologists' brother gets attacked by it, he goes up to investigate. Run from there. Sounds like a nice beach novel, right? Well it is, until about the last third where all the build up to that point gets tossed out the window and it turns out there is only one dragon, it is attracted to sin and only by having Jesus in your heart are you safe. The Oath is no longer a we keep this secret thing, but a demon pact that summoned and bound the dragon, only it never bound it it just did exactly what it was told for hundreds of years because... well just because.

This thing goes from moderately entertaining time killer to nutso screed in the span of about 2 pages with no warning and no explanation for the resulting plot holes. Fuck this book.

[Ender]

His work is full of double standards, his World War series has a human kid raised by aliens being a fruitcake but the aliens raised by humans to have no visible troubles whatsoever.

In fairness, in the last book we get to see those aliens when they're grown up, and one of them is implied to be a rather psychologically messed up individual (the one who became a game-show host).

But yeah, I had way less sympathy for Sam Yeager than the author seemed to.

I meant to write "seem to" there. I also haven't finished Homeward Bound, kinda got sick of the
"America! Fuck Yeah!" sentiment as presented by Saint Arrogant Ass Sam Yeager. At least Turtledove isn't as bad as I thought we was previously.

The lizard kids thing was at least kinda sensible - they are able to interact with human society with no problems, but when it comes to any interaction with their own kind they are completely fucked in the head. Including the whole "what is attractive in a mate" thing, which has them even more screwy. One is majorly depressed, the other has a raging hate for the humans for screwing him up like that.

[Flagg]

Meg.
Spoiler

Guy gets swallowed whole by shark and cuts out it's heart with a fossilized megalodon tooth.

Need I say more?

[Ender]

Meg.
Spoiler

Guy gets swallowed whole by shark and cuts out it's heart with a fossilized megalodon tooth.

Need I say more?

Don't forget that, out of the entire pacific ocean, with all the living things in it, it somehow finds his cheating wife and eats her, thus freeing him to marry the female protagonist.


And yet, the sequels were worse.

[Flagg]

Meg.
Spoiler

Guy gets swallowed whole by shark and cuts out it's heart with a fossilized megalodon tooth.

Need I say more?

Don't forget that, out of the entire pacific ocean, with all the living things in it, it somehow finds his cheating wife and eats her, thus freeing him to marry the female protagonist.


And yet, the sequels were worse.

Yeah, I stayed away from those after reading the first POS. It's honestly the single worst book I have ever read. Ever. And I read 'Dreamcatcher' as well as several ST TNG novels.

[Darth Wong]

How do people like this get publishers?

[Flagg]

How do people like this get publishers?

Blowjobs.


That and the fact that people buy this crap.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Publish or Perish, once you get your foot in the door or can drop a name it's easy to get republished. The guy from Meg and it's sequels is friends with Benchley, and had a general resume grade name drop that got him the contract.

[Thanas]

2) The Jew wanking. Seriously, he actually made a point of saying that all of the great military leaders are always Jews. That stuck out to me like a sore thumb; I actually stopped reading for a minute out of shock, before I continued.

Wait,what? Doesn't he read his history?

[mr friendly guy]

Tad Williams and his Green Angel Tower series is just fucking atrocious. It's roughly 1500 pages longer than necessary and is guaranteed to put the reader to sleep. The characters are so fucking whiny I wanted them all to die horribly. Multiple times. Fortunately I remember little of the actual contents of the book, other than that vague sense of horror and disjointed bits and pieces from here and there. There was precisely one funny part, which was the occasion when one of the elves scared the piss out of some peasant girl, but that's the only worthwhile part.

I finished the first book and felt it just dragged on and on and on with multiple subplots. I couldn't finish the second book. Hey, maybe wiki has a summary so I can find out what actually happened.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by whoever is also one that annoyed me no end. The world is interesting enough, but the main character is such a whiny, selfish bastard of an asshole that it makes the books painful to read.

Stephen Donaldson. I have heard some people on this board liked it. I personally couldn't finish the first book. Granted I was like 12, when I tried reading it, but it was boring as hell. And that was before we found out he was a whiner.



For my nomination, I will nominate Invasion by Eric L Harry or some such name. To summarise in the future under a Democratic party presidency the USA turned a blind eye to the China threat, which has annex most of Asia with has annihilated most of Europes navies, using gigantic aircraft carriers built with South Korean slave labour. China decides to invade the US with human wave tactics which initially work. But don't worry, the Republicans are in charge with a politician who was also an ex actor, but unlike Reagan isn't senile.

I don't know what was more sad. The story, or the people on amazon who are were so engrossed by it that they got out maps of US plotting where the Chinese forces advance, or those who thought this was a realistic predictor of things to come.

[Darth Wong]

2) The Jew wanking. Seriously, he actually made a point of saying that all of the great military leaders are always Jews. That stuck out to me like a sore thumb; I actually stopped reading for a minute out of shock, before I continued.

Wait,what? Doesn't he read his history?

In his fictional timeline, all the great future generals of humanity are Jewish. Apparently, less than 1% of the human population contains all of its military genius in the future. That's some real "Master Race" bullshit there.