Armageddon???? - Part Eighty One Up

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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-08-22 02:19am

You're right, I was referring to the later period. As for your cover idea, it reminds me of the "Blue vs Grey" covers you used to see on novels about the Civil War, with two armies charging toward each other. Usually, there's an officer in the foreground with sabre held high.
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Post by ray245 » 2008-08-22 02:27am

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I still think there should be an oil-painting look. If people prefer the "show combatants fighting on the cover" style that's fine, but there's a certain style that people associate with the religious artistry of the middle ages, and I think it would be appropriate here.
To each his own but part of the reason I like the sketches is they're somewhat reminiscent of the woodcut style illustrations from Paradise Lost. I think that actually works fairly well for this thematically. And they're good sketches.

Actual medieval style looks, frankly, like shit. It really looks goofy. I think what you're actually thinking is Renaissance or Romance works; those tend to be a lot better quality and more realistic. The Renaissance and Romantic art looks decent but it's actually rather difficult to find a decent piece that hasn't been published to death. And this deserves some original artwork.
Meaning an orignal design using Renaissance and Romantic art? Or just another art style?

P.S. the link to the AMP thread is here, hopfully, this will help those people using 56k connection...

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125860

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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-08-22 02:38am

I was curious what the "Left Behind" novel covers looked like, since that is a highly popular set of novels about End Times prophecies. That was a mistake; holy shit, what a horrible book cover. Kirk Cameron's face dominates it, which right away makes me want to puke.

Mind you, the original version of the cover was very plain, and apart from a glowing planet, it was just black with white lettering on it. But the tagline was quite clear about the content of the book, saying "A novel of the Earth's last days" in small but bold print under the title. That's another way to go: just go arty for the cover and spell out the concept of the novel in plain English, instead of trying to use the artwork for descriptive purposes.

The story is one that inherently lends itself to dramatic teaser lines on the back or front cover, like "The last time Satan's legions came to Earth, we fought them in vain, with spears and arrows. This time would be different."
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Post by Stuart » 2008-08-22 08:42am

EdBecerra wrote:Am I understanding the last word of that first title correctly? Pantheocide = All gods killed (or dead)?
More precisely the methodical and systematic extermination of gods. :shock: :lol:
Guardsman Bass wrote:I wonder - with a title like "The Salvation War: Armageddon", do you think you'll get a lot of fundie-types who will buy it, expecting an apocalyptic Christian novel, and be in for a rather interesting surprise?
And there is a problem here? As long as they've paid for it up front who cares? Anyway, it might make them think and that can't be a bad thing.
Kie99 wrote:I don't like the font in that Cover. I think something like

THE SALVATION WAR
ARMAGEDDON
I used block print for the TBO novels and I want these stories to have a different character so I used the scrolling cursive script (Its Corsiva Monotype.) I though it gave a nice slightly medieval air as well. Long way to go yet; I'm hoping Mark will come up with some ideas; he's a brilliant cover designer.
Last edited by Stuart on 2008-08-22 08:50am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Mayabird » 2008-08-22 08:45am

Darth Wong wrote: The story is one that inherently lends itself to dramatic teaser lines on the back or front cover, like "The last time Satan's legions came to Earth, we fought them in vain, with spears and arrows. This time would be different."
The nice thing about that blurb is that it would also trick fundies into buying the book, because they'd think, "Ooh, this time we have JESUS on our side!" Doesn't matter that they'd burn the book within three days of buying it; a sale is a sale is money in the pocket.
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Post by Stuart » 2008-08-22 08:59am

Darth Wong wrote: The story is one that inherently lends itself to dramatic teaser lines on the back or front cover, like "The last time Satan's legions came to Earth, we fought them in vain, with spears and arrows. This time would be different."
Grin. Lots of fun in making up teaser lines. They should be sharp and to-the-point though. Something like

Swords and spears didn't defeat the legions of hell. But now humanity has tanks...

Or

Satan Claims Humanity as his own. Humanity disagrees. Faith meets firepower head-on.
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Post by AniThyng » 2008-08-22 09:05am

Mayabird wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: The story is one that inherently lends itself to dramatic teaser lines on the back or front cover, like "The last time Satan's legions came to Earth, we fought them in vain, with spears and arrows. This time would be different."
The nice thing about that blurb is that it would also trick fundies into buying the book, because they'd think, "Ooh, this time we have JESUS on our side!" Doesn't matter that they'd burn the book within three days of buying it; a sale is a sale is money in the pocket.
Is not the converse also true? People might just think it's another christian apocolyptic work and not give it a 2nd glance?
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Post by Stuart » 2008-08-22 09:22am

AniThyng wrote: Is not the converse also true? People might just think it's another christian apocolyptic work and not give it a 2nd glance?
Excuse me, do you know how much those apocalyptic things actually SELL? Who cares if a handful of people look at it, think "oh another apocalyptic book" and walk away when people clutching copies are lined up six-deep at the sales register?

Sorry, but this is the crass world of commercialism. The important thing is to sell copies. People only get exposed to ideas if they read, hear or see them. The people who think "oh another apocalyptic book" and walk away already understand what we're trying to push here. Everybody else who picks up a copy gets exposed to the ideas in it and might, just might, start to think about said ideas.

On cover design, there is a germ of a good idea in the pencil sketches but it needs a lot of development. Have a look at the Frank Capra pictures of the Normandy landings - the story behind them is that when he sent teh negatives back for processing, the film technician was in such a hurry to see them he ran the system too fast and destroyed most of the pictures. The few that survived had a grainy, blurred appearance that Capra actually liked so when he finished kicking said technician he used them.

Artwork for covers has to be done very carefully; its hard to get right, painfully easy to get wrong.
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Post by Peptuck » 2008-08-22 09:26am

I almost can't wait for this book to be published, just to see the fundie reaction to it. :D
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Post by ray245 » 2008-08-22 10:00am

Stuart wrote:
AniThyng wrote: Is not the converse also true? People might just think it's another christian apocolyptic work and not give it a 2nd glance?
Excuse me, do you know how much those apocalyptic things actually SELL? Who cares if a handful of people look at it, think "oh another apocalyptic book" and walk away when people clutching copies are lined up six-deep at the sales register?

Sorry, but this is the crass world of commercialism. The important thing is to sell copies. People only get exposed to ideas if they read, hear or see them. The people who think "oh another apocalyptic book" and walk away already understand what we're trying to push here. Everybody else who picks up a copy gets exposed to the ideas in it and might, just might, start to think about said ideas.

On cover design, there is a germ of a good idea in the pencil sketches but it needs a lot of development. Have a look at the Frank Capra pictures of the Normandy landings - the story behind them is that when he sent teh negatives back for processing, the film technician was in such a hurry to see them he ran the system too fast and destroyed most of the pictures. The few that survived had a grainy, blurred appearance that Capra actually liked so when he finished kicking said technician he used them.

Artwork for covers has to be done very carefully; its hard to get right, painfully easy to get wrong.
You know, all you really need is some christian to read the book, and call up the newspapers and etc to ban the book.

We all know that the book won't be banned, and it will serve as a publicity for the novels and series.

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Post by Bayonet » 2008-08-22 10:39am

Stuart wrote: Excuse me, do you know how much those apocalyptic things actually SELL?
It all comes down to the Fishing Lure Marketing Principle.

Catching fish has nothing to do with it.

You need to catch Fishermen.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-08-22 10:56am

Darth Wong wrote:I was curious what the "Left Behind" novel covers looked like, since that is a highly popular set of novels about End Times prophecies. That was a mistake; holy shit, what a horrible book cover. Kirk Cameron's face dominates it, which right away makes me want to puke.
Kirk Cameron's face wasn't on the original ones, he only got added after he starred in the Left Behind movie. The original covers looked like this:

Image

Basically all the same, but each cover had a different accent cover. The last one had a white backround instead of black.
You know, all you really need is some christian to read the book, and call up the newspapers and etc to ban the book.

We all know that the book won't be banned, and it will serve as a publicity for the novels and series.
I'm reasonably sure I can get my church to kick up a shitstorm about it. Also, Stuart, for a tagline;

When God declares the gates of heaven are closed, it isn't going to be Hell on Earth... Its going to be Earth on Hell.
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Post by ray245 » 2008-08-22 11:12am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
I'm reasonably sure I can get my church to kick up a shitstorm about it. Also, Stuart, for a tagline;

When God declares the gates of heaven are closed, it isn't going to be Hell on Earth... Its going to be Earth on Hell.
I was thinking of something that MIGHT attract the fundies to buy the book without thinking...

That kind of teaser may be too much though...

We need a kind of teaser that does not give away the infomation that in this story, humanity is declaring war on heaven as well.

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Post by PainRack » 2008-08-22 01:12pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote: When God declares the gates of heaven are closed, it isn't going to be Hell on Earth... Its going to be Earth on Hell.
Damn..... This tagline kick ass.... Not sure about what it do to attract customers but its sweet and gets the idea across perfectly.
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Post by Eulogy » 2008-08-22 02:14pm

When hell comes to collect the damned, faith has only one place to go.

Humans and their earthly creations on one side, and Satan's legions on the other. Let's see who wins.

Witness the glory of God when hell breaks loose.

Both angels and demons have a part to play.

Satan does not expect the triumphs that will come.

See how great God truly is.


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Post by The Vortex Empire » 2008-08-22 02:26pm

I like it. Doesn't give too much away, the religious might be inclined to buy it, it's perfect.

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Post by Zor » 2008-08-22 03:26pm

I personally prefer this line...

WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL

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Post by Stuart » 2008-08-22 03:35pm

Zor wrote:I personally prefer this line...

WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL

Zor
Now that is good. :twisted:
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-08-22 03:46pm

Aww! So close! Who knew ZOR would turn a phrase properly?
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Post by White Haven » 2008-08-22 05:06pm

Now that, sir, is a badass tagline.
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Post by EdBecerra » 2008-08-22 05:08pm

Stuart wrote:
EdBecerra wrote:Am I understanding the last word of that first title correctly? Pantheocide = All gods killed (or dead)?
More precisely the methodical and systematic extermination of gods. :shock: :lol:
So, Humanity's going into this with an attitude that's a cross between the Israeli attitude toward Nazis and an exterminator's attitude toward roaches? Or am I reading too much into that?
Stuart wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:I wonder - with a title like "The Salvation War: Armageddon", do you think you'll get a lot of fundie-types who will buy it, expecting an apocalyptic Christian novel, and be in for a rather interesting surprise?
And there is a problem here? As long as they've paid for it up front who cares? Anyway, it might make them think and that can't be a bad thing.
Heh. That reminds me of the opening page of the introduction to the parody, "Bored of the Rings", where the Harvard Lampoon is telling you "don't buy this book, it's NOT 'Lord of the R...' oh, wait, you've already made it to page 6, that means you've probably already bought it and we've got your money now - what do WE care what you do with it now. *smirk*"

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Post by tim31 » 2008-08-22 06:33pm

Stuart wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:I wonder - with a title like "The Salvation War: Armageddon", do you think you'll get a lot of fundie-types who will buy it, expecting an apocalyptic Christian novel, and be in for a rather interesting surprise?
And there is a problem here? As long as they've paid for it up front who cares? Anyway, it might make them think and that can't be a bad thing
So you don't mind the christians treating you like the muslims treat Rushdie? :lol:
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Post by Col. Crackpot » 2008-08-22 08:37pm

Stuart wrote:
Zor wrote:I personally prefer this line...

WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL

Zor
Now that is good. :twisted:
So in your acknowlgements you must tip your hat to "Zor, proving that even broken clocks are right at least twice a day."


also, Stuart is excommunicated in 3... 2... 1...
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-08-22 09:01pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Stuart wrote:
Zor wrote:I personally prefer this line...

WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL

Zor
Now that is good. :twisted:
So in your acknowlgements you must tip your hat to "Zor, proving that even broken clocks are right at least twice a day."

also, Stuart is excommunicated in 3... 2... 1...
Stuart was born in England. I think they get excommunicated out of hand for that Anglican thing.
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Post by Col. Crackpot » 2008-08-22 09:08pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
So in your acknowlgements you must tip your hat to "Zor, proving that even broken clocks are right at least twice a day."

also, Stuart is excommunicated in 3... 2... 1...
Stuart was born in England. I think they get excommunicated out of hand for that Anglican thing.
I'm sure the Anglicans frown on calling Jesus a stoner. :lol:
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