The recent discussion regarding recession got me thinking. Last time when the world entered a great depression it led to fascism and Hitler. Hard times lead to people normally dismissed as bigots gaining power. If the shit really hits the fan and there is an economic repeat of 1930s could such a thing happen again ?

Secondly, not to add to the flurry of peak oil threads but if the madness of late 30s Europe happens worldwide does it matter how well you are prepared ? If fascist type people are in Washington and tanks are rumbling down in your precious cosmopolitan cities like NY it does not matter if you can produce biodiesel and food on your own. Even in the west you are as screwed as an asian country undergoing a "revolution".

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I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.

Sure it could, but whether it'd take the form of Mussolini style corporatism, or Hitler style race centered volk above all would depend upon the country and circumstances.

Or are you just using 'fascism' as shorthand for a right wing dictatorship?
Because if you are, I'd argue that even the US or Canada under the right set of circumstances could just as easily go with a left wing dictator as a right wing one.

Though in the US at least, there is a historical antipathy to the word 'Communist', which may or may not pose a barrier to a left wing dictator.

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"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant

Of course fascism could make a comeback. People secretly like fascism, because they always imagine themselves being the guys in the spiffy uniforms holding the pokey sticks. They never imagine themselves being the "problems" that have to be "taken care of".

Plus, fascism is easy: The Beloved Leader is always right. Do what the Beloved Leader says, or he will make you suffer. He knows what you must do for the Good of The Nation. If you don't do as the Beloved Leader says, then you are a traitor.

It's simple, black and white thinking - assuming you actually have to do it yourself. Most of the time the Government encourages you to let them do it for you - after all, they know what's Best.

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"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong

"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff

I'm sure it's very unlikely, but not impossible. I think if a population of voters is scared enough, they will do anything to ensure their perceived safety, even if it means putting a dictator into power. Hell, Bush had people willing to give up many civil liberties in the name of "national security" here in the US...

How many people in the US would do what Bush would say just because he's the President? Never mind that it might be the wrong thing to do, or that they're actually under no legal obligation to do as he says.

I don't know how prevalent it is, but there's a certain segment of the population who seem to believe that while the President's in office, he might as well be dictator.

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"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong

"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff

Yeah. I don't think barring memory erasing rays any of the old facist movements could be resurrected. It would have to be similar shit but in different packaging.

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I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.

All you need to do is to have conditions get worse and for people like Bush to dehumanize human beings from other nations bad enough, and viola.

In some ways, the only difference between WWII and Iraq is that the former involved Rich White People killing each other in Europe and the latter is just America kicking a bunch of Poor Brown People in Some Shithole.

Give the other side the capacity to fight back fairly instead of getting slaughtered, you won't have anti-war protesters marching about. If only Bush's Boogeyman didn't deflate, if only people stayed scared, things could've Gotten Much Worse.

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Yeah sure, as long as "awesome" is some kind of Shroomy code-word for "fucking stupid". - DW
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook

Fascism is the right-wing barrier that is erected on the path to a socialist revolution, more often than not. Which is what usually happened historically. So I guess fascism could make a comeback, just as socialist revolutions will continue to happen.

There's no "end of history" in sight, especially given the short-sightedness of man.

Depends on what you call "fascism", however. Fascism is a set of political principles and economic policies - corporative agents joining the state, agressive militarism as means of preventing overthrow at home and economic agression, lootery and expansion abroad for direct seizure of material wealth, including, but not limited to, natural resources and territory, as well as human populations.

And technically there's little barring the same principles being enacted in one state or another.

Has it even not been around?

Part of the problem with fascism is that people disagree on what it is, hence they disagree on whether it's coming back at all. I remember seeing a great quote about fascism where somebody said something to the effect of "people see the uniforms, the goose stepping, and the military parades which accompanied the violence and they think those things were fascism. But the real problem of fascism was not the uniforms or the goose stepping or the military parades; it was the violence."

I think we have that problem in spades: people have confused fascism with the superficial trappings of historical fascist regimes. So as long as your soldiers march with a short step instead of a goose step, you're OK. As long as your ubiquitous military imagery takes the form of posters and movies and photo-ops of leaders in military gear or military vehicles instead of garish parades in the public square, you're OK. In short, a fascist regime could arise by simply avoiding the obvious imagery of fascism while quietly militarizing society and taking away civil liberties from the people: the two real elements of fascism.

And what's more, I think that the return of fascism will not come from the top. It will come from below; the masses will ask for it.

In the worst case scenario could America plunge into a revolution similar to the French or Bolshevik take overs, either far right or far left, with a secret police or paramilitary force (with a angry mob) roaming the country and detaining or killing minority groups that can be easily scapegoated for most problems (like the rich pseudo aristocrats, Jews, Muslims, religious leaders etc)? They won't be wearing raven black, olive grey or mustard brown uniforms with red armbands bearing a occult symbol, but their priniciples and intentions will be worringly similar.

If we are assuming fascism to be extremely powerful central government with extensive police powers and an aggressive militant style to foriegn policy, then yes, absolutely. Honestly, Id say we're 90% of the way there, although its not exactly a checkpoint - more of a sliding scale.

Ive found this vid interesting, for some reason. Its a fake advertisement for fascism, and I think its well done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhtzFMrpSvI

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"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna

On the fascist comeback I know one thing: in Italy we have laws and a costitution that declared illegal every form of fascism, but various members of the Parliament are moderate fascists under three cover names, and our 'beloved' Silvio Berlusconi did in public a Roman salute (illegal outside movies and historical representations for his fascist connections) but nobody arrested or kicked him out of Parliament. If in the homecountry of the word 'fascism' and the country more damaged from it we have this thing...

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." -- "It Can't Happen Here", Sinclair Lewis, 1935

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