Enterprise-D versus an Unarmed SW freighter

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What will happen? (see post)

The freighter is destroyed, the E-D survives
9
15%
Both ships are destroyed
3
5%
The E-D is destroyed, the freighter survives
25
41%
The freighter fails to ram the E-D, and is captured
4
7%
The freighter fails to ram the E-D, but gets away
17
28%
Something Else Happens (please describe)
3
5%
 
Total votes: 61

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Enterprise-D versus an Unarmed SW freighter

Postby AirshipFanboy » 2007-10-17 03:05am

The Lucky Nerfherder, a small smuggling freighter from the Galactic Empire has meandered into the Star Trek universe via a hidden wormhole. Figuring that the transporter technology, food replicators, and holo-porn popular in this strange Federation will net them quite a profit in the black markets of their home galaxy, they opt to steal several pieces of Federation technology and make a run for the wormhole. En route to their destination, their hyperdrive malfunctions, forcing the crew to stop in mid-space and make repairs.

Unfortunately, while they are making repairs, the Enterprise-D catches up to them, under orders by Starfleet Command to capture this tramp freighter and retrieve its stolen Federation property. Not willing to be captured by a mysterious regime, the captain of the Lucky Nerfherder opts for a bold move - smash her ship right through the pursuing vessel!

The freighter captain is hoping that her deflector shields will simply rip the Enterprise apart. But is she right? Or will the crew of the E-D manage to stop her dastardly plan before it reaches fruition?

--------

Being a shitty freighter with rebuilt ion engines, the Lucky Nerfherder has only 3/4ths the sublight acceleration of the Big E, and has no weapons. Consider it to be otherwise equivalent to Padme's cigar-shaped yacht from Episode II, only uglier. Its crew consists of two Wookies, a Twi'lek, a protocol droid, an R-5 unit, and three members of Yoda's species.

The Enterprise-D crew has no knowledge of the wormhole, or of the smuggling ship's ultimate origins. Their knowledge of the ship they are chasing comes mostly from what their sensors can tell them; their briefing from Starfleet wasn't very informative.

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Postby Covenant » 2007-10-17 04:57am

Seeing how amazingly effective ramming is against federation vehicles, and given that this thing's shields and superstructure are probably far superior to anything the Enterprise has ever seen, I'm guessing that the Enterprise will chicken out first and the Nerfherder will be able to slice through one of the nacelle wings. Score one for superior shielding!

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Postby bilateralrope » 2007-10-17 05:13am

Given that it only has 3/4 of the acceleration of the Enterprise, I doubt it could actually ram it unless the Enterprise gets a really unlucky position. Just point away from it and go to full thrust.

On the other hand I doubt the Enterprise has anything which can harm its shields, so its likely that they will give up the ramming attempt once the Enterprise starts shooting and they realise that they can't actually catch up with it.

End result: Unless the shield fails due to poor maintenance, the Enterprise will shoot at the freighter until they either give up or the hyperdrive is fixed. Then the freighter jumps away.

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Postby harbringer » 2007-10-17 05:53am

while it might be an exageration to suggest an astromech armed with a DL-44 might be a credible threat, even an unarmed frighter will be an issue if they can't kill it. If the freighter captain is truely determined to ram I really dont see too much the enterprise can do to stop he/she/it <we are waiting for your shuttlecraft now enterprise, what are we doing ohh ramming you>. However im not entirely sure that the shields on the frighter will hold either. After all the MF is the only reference we have in movie and even in the EU there is a lack of material on "boring" ships like tramps. The falcon is so upgraded you can't use it as a baseline anymore.
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Postby Old Plympto » 2007-10-17 07:52am

harbringer wrote:After all the MF is the only reference we have in movie and even in the EU there is a lack of material on "boring" ships like tramps. The falcon is so upgraded you can't use it as a baseline anymore.

There is quite a dearth of materials in the roleplaying supplements. Stock freighters can be found in various WEG books, and then finally compiled in the Stock Ships supplement where they list for each ship type: a baseline model, floor plans and an example of that ship type currently in use and with modifications.

There was also an issue of Star Wars Gamer magazine (for d20 rules) that had a bunch of new baseline Corellian stock frieghters. Here's the link to that article's artist's gallery.

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Postby BountyHunterSAx » 2007-10-17 10:50am

[Captain's Log 43151.2: We were mapping out an unidentified area of the typhon sector near the munsaana nebula when an enemy dropped out of some form of superluminal travel. Data informs me that it must have been faster than hyper-drive. Starfleet has given us orders to pursue.]

DATA: "Enemy freighter is coming about, bearing 327 mark 2"
PICARD: "Number One?"
RIKER: "It doesn't look like it has any weapons; could be a feint?"

[ship accelerates toward them]

DATA: The ship is accelerating to ramming speed.
PICARD: "Red Alert! Raise shields, prepare evasive maneuvers."
DATA: "Captain, at this proximity it will be impossible to sufficiently account for the nebulous differences between our near-light-speed maneuvering by the mitigated ability of the pontificatory oscillation of meandering--"
PICARD: "DATA, stop rambling!"
DATA: "Yes, sir." [takes 'deep breath'] "We will not be able to successfully out maneuver them at this range."
PICARD: "Helm, reverse engines - full impulse."

[Enterprise careens away, but due to all the delay the freighter has significantly closed the difference]

TROI: "I sense great desire to ram us"
PICARD: [looking shocked] "What kind of men ARE these?"
GEORDI: [over comm] "Captain, after that last reversal, I don't know how much more stress these engines can take."
DATA: "Sir due to the zebo-dun-duo-dyniumous particles in this pocket of the nebulaic space around us, the subspace is weaker; we will not be able to continue this evasion."

[ship drops out of warp]

PICARD: "Divert all power to front deflectors."
DATA: "Sir, I recommend we activate the tractor beam, to push it out of the way."
RIKER: "And de-pressurize cargo-bay 2; the explosive reaction should push us out of the way, remember?"
DATA thinks, PICARD thinks, TROI faints, none remember.
PICARD: "Tractor beam, make it so."

[Data uses tractor beam, shearing forces damages Enterprise, and barely alters the trajectory.....and then it is rammed and destroyed]


[[BUT]]

[Captain's Log 43151.2: We were mapping out an unidentified area of the typhon sector near the munsaana nebula when an enemy dropped out of some form of superluminal travel. Data informs me that it must have been faster than hyper-drive. Starfleet has given us orders to pursue.]

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Postby Illuminatus Primus » 2007-10-17 02:32pm

How about the freighter flashes the ship with its engines at close range? Tiny speeder-sized Actis interceptors put out megatons/sec to maintain their accelerations, much greater output than their cannons, actually.
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Postby KlavoHunter » 2007-10-18 02:28pm

Are the Enterprise's photon torpedoes so impotent that she can't even bring down the shields of a small freighter, which is very much threatened by the KT-yield lasers of a TIE Fighter?

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Postby BountyHunterSAx » 2007-10-18 02:57pm

You're missing the point; the Enterprise-D is manned by a crew whom we know and understand very well. There response time and swiftness to act in the face of threats is - at best - slow. Picard has shown in the past that even when there is a known threat to the life and safety of his crew, he will not resort to violence unless he feels he has exhausted the alternatives. (ST TNG: "I, Borg" "Evolution").

Seeing this completely alien technology he would rationally assume that there was living things on the ship and would treat the issue as delicately as he could. He wouldn't fire on the ship; he'd try to avoid it; or hold it with tractor beams.

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Postby KlavoHunter » 2007-10-18 03:16pm

... Good point. :P

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Postby Jark » 2007-10-18 03:38pm

KlavoHunter wrote:Are the Enterprise's photon torpedoes so impotent that she can't even bring down the shields of a small freighter, which is very much threatened by the KT-yield lasers of a TIE Fighter?


It depends. I've seen people come up with photon torpedo firepower figures from kilotons to single/double digit megatons and all the way up to gigatons.

What are the more acceptable and reliable numbers?

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Postby Master_Baerne » 2007-10-18 04:11pm

Old Plympto wrote:
harbringer wrote:After all the MF is the only reference we have in movie and even in the EU there is a lack of material on "boring" ships like tramps. The falcon is so upgraded you can't use it as a baseline anymore.

There is quite a dearth of materials in the roleplaying supplements. Stock freighters can be found in various WEG books, and then finally compiled in the Stock Ships supplement where they list for each ship type: a baseline model, floor plans and an example of that ship type currently in use and with modifications.

There was also an issue of Star Wars Gamer magazine (for d20 rules) that had a bunch of new baseline Corellian stock frieghters. Here's the link to that article's artist's gallery.


But, since this is WEG, no information is better than the utter drivel they turn out.
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Postby Perseid » 2007-10-18 04:18pm

Jark wrote:It depends. I've seen people come up with photon torpedo firepower figures from kilotons to single/double digit megatons and all the way up to gigatons.

What are the more acceptable and reliable numbers?


The yeild generally used for PT in vs debates is 64MT I think, however they've shown yields as low as a hand grenade before.
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Postby Ghost Rider » 2007-10-18 05:06pm

Mr CorSec wrote:
Jark wrote:It depends. I've seen people come up with photon torpedo firepower figures from kilotons to single/double digit megatons and all the way up to gigatons.

What are the more acceptable and reliable numbers?


The yeild generally used for PT in vs debates is 64MT I think, however they've shown yields as low as a hand grenade before.


The use of 64MT is simply because it is the absolute best yield from the anti matter/matter mix quoted in the Technical manual. Most of what is shown in canon as you said is lowest to around hand grenade(In STV) to as high as double digit in some asteroid destruction.
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Postby Kamakazie Sith » 2007-10-18 08:21pm

The Captain is an idiot because he forgot that the E-D superior mass will simply destroy the shield generator itself even though they can't penetrate the shields with weapons.

The E-D can attempt to use its weapons to eventually bring down the shields of the freighter.

I love how people bring up the crews values for life, liberty, and the pursuit of all that is holy while forgetting that the scenario itself requires them to abandon that. My only conclusion is that we're dealing with their mirror universe counterparts.
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Postby Ender » 2007-10-18 08:49pm

That the captain would ram is simply idiotic in the extreme. There is no need for it, and if your only point was to discuss the effectiveness of Federation targeting or material strength you could have created a simpler and more direct thread in PST for it.

If we allow the cpatain of the freighter to have the basic knowledge of what his craft can do that is part and parcel of being able to fly, then it goes to him quite easily. Three words people:

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Postby Kamakazie Sith » 2007-10-18 09:54pm

Ender wrote:That the captain would ram is simply idiotic in the extreme. There is no need for it, and if your only point was to discuss the effectiveness of Federation targeting or material strength you could have created a simpler and more direct thread in PST for it.

If we allow the cpatain of the freighter to have the basic knowledge of what his craft can do that is part and parcel of being able to fly, then it goes to him quite easily. Three words people:

The. Kzinti. Lesson.


Don't they have to be very close for that to work?
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Postby Feil » 2007-10-19 02:01am

The captain is an idiot. She can probably manage to ram the E-D, and doing so will probably destroy it, but there's no way in hell the freighter's shield generator can withstand the impulse of impact.

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Postby Connor MacLeod » 2007-10-19 02:46am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Don't they have to be very close for that to work?



Define "very close". We're talking about a very large plume of near-c particles being ejected out of the thrust nozzles. While probably not nearly as focused as a true particle beam, the velocity alone will give them quite substantial range - shoudl be thousands or tens of thousands of kms easily at full burn.

The real problem of coursse will be steering or aiming. This is basically going to turn the ship into an ion cannon frigate, which means alot of the aiming will depend on turning the ship (depending on range) though they can steer the exhuast to some extent (though how easily is a good question, since the same things that give it its power probably make it harder to steer.)

Edit: (and not directed at KS) In most respects, I dislike this thread, becuase it seems to tread into the same territory we wetn over with "SW fighters vs Fed ships" and with much the same results. I get tired of seeing people try to figure out the lowest-end stuff they can geta way with throwing at the feds to see if they can win. I mean what's next, a mole of probe droids vs the E-E?

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Postby harbringer » 2007-10-19 07:13am

As I said im not sure what would happen during ramming but as has been suggested that isnt the only method...... a couple of thermal detonators in garbage cans could work too if the enterprise doesnt work it out in time
after all the detonators might not look like weapons to them....

But given the nature of things I cant see the enterprise surviving ramming or avoiding it. I would wait until they couldn't.

Wouldn't even a tramp have some sort of defense weapon other than hope and exhausts???
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Postby General Schatten » 2007-10-19 10:19am

harbringer wrote:Wouldn't even a tramp have some sort of defense weapon other than hope and exhausts???


Except for the X-Wing Games I've never heard of an unarmed tramp freighter, even the most basic of YT-1300's is armed with a quad laser cannon.
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Postby skies » 2007-11-05 04:14pm

None of the above. The freighter just raises shields and continue's making repairs. The Enterprise can't transport through and can't even jostle the freighter with its weaponry. Picard wastes the time trying to "find a diplomatic solution" and "create a friendly dialogue", while the freighter captain ingnores all attempts at communication.

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Postby pstanton » 2007-12-05 10:33pm

None of the above, the captain of the freighter pretends to engage in negotiations. Since Picard is civilized he would never interrupt negotiations. The captain or his representative stall until the crew has finished repairs, at which point they simply leave.

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Postby SilverWingedSeraph » 2007-12-05 10:40pm

Way to go. You necroed a dead thread, and repeated the exact same thing the necromancing tard before you said a month ago. You're off to a great start here, I see.
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Postby SilverWingedSeraph » 2007-12-05 10:41pm

Ghetto Edit: Wait, no you didn't. I fail at reading.
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