Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people
* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 
Want to support this site? Click

Thank you, Electron Boy!

Note: network performance may be spotty for the next week, as our Internet connection was severed and the server has been moved to a temporary location. Please bear with us during this time.

Quote of the Week: "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick, American author (1928-1982)


It is currently 2010-07-30 06:38am


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 04:53pm
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 2007-02-15 12:56pm
Posts: 595
Location: Tasmania, Australia
That's really the most simplistic form of imagination. That's just playing, and pretending that something is actually something else. But you do make a valid point there.



  /l、
゙(゚、 。 7
 l、゙ ~ヽ
 じしf_, )ノ

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:04pm
Kneel before Zod!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-11-18 04:08pm
Posts: 23034
Location: I'mma let you finish
SilverWingedSeraph wrote:
That's really the most simplistic form of imagination. That's just playing, and pretending that something is actually something else. But you do make a valid point there.


Since everything else humans have is really just the result of evolutionary refinement, why should imagination be any different?



"If God didn't want us to masturbate, he would've made our arms shorter."

Image Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:09pm
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 2007-02-15 12:56pm
Posts: 595
Location: Tasmania, Australia
General Zod wrote:
SilverWingedSeraph wrote:
Since everything else humans have is really just the result of evolutionary refinement, why should imagination be any different?


It shouldn't. I have no doubt that our ability for abstract though is an evolutionary trait. I'm just saying that I think it's the major trait that separates us from other animals, because due to my knowledge, no other living creature has evolved their ability for abstract thought to the extent that humans have.



  /l、
゙(゚、 。 7
 l、゙ ~ヽ
 じしf_, )ノ

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:13pm
Kneel before Zod!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-11-18 04:08pm
Posts: 23034
Location: I'mma let you finish
SilverWingedSeraph wrote:
It shouldn't. I have no doubt that our ability for abstract though is an evolutionary trait. I'm just saying that I think it's the major trait that separates us from other animals, because due to my knowledge, no other living creature has evolved their ability for abstract thought to the extent that humans have.


Who cares about extent as long as the same basic capacity is demonstrated? Dolphins come to mind as animals being capable of abstract thought, for example.



"If God didn't want us to masturbate, he would've made our arms shorter."

Image Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:18pm
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Posts: 68896
Location: Toronto, Canada
Even if an animal had the capacity for abstract thought, we wouldn't know.

The biggest thing that distinguishes us from the other animals is that we found a way to preserve the thoughts of our most brilliant members. Let's be realistic about this: if we were limited to the thoughts of average people, how advanced would our civilization be by now? We'd be lucky to have advanced beyond hunter-gatherer societies.

All throughout history, it has been a tiny fraction of humans who have driven the entire species forward, by coming up with brilliant ideas that would not have occurred to the average person. Someone had to invent the wheel. Someone had to invent agriculture. Someone had to invent irrigation. Someone had to figure out how to smelt metals. Someone had to invent gunpowder, or the microchip.

Our particular gift was the ability to spread those ideas among the people who weren't smart enough to think of them on their own, preserve those ideas, and pass them on to future generations.

There could very well be an occasional dolphin who is born brilliant, but it doesn't do the other dolphins any good, because his abilities will die with him.



Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:35pm
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 2007-02-15 12:56pm
Posts: 595
Location: Tasmania, Australia
General Zod wrote:
Who cares about extent as long as the same basic capacity is demonstrated? Dolphins come to mind as animals being capable of abstract thought, for example.


Well, by that reasoning, the only difference between Humans and other mammals is that we have evolved different traits to a greater extent than they have, and vice-versa. So, nothing really makes us that special.

Darth Wong wrote:
Even if an animal had the capacity for abstract thought, we wouldn't know.

The biggest thing that distinguishes us from the other animals is that we found a way to preserve the thoughts of our most brilliant members. Let's be realistic about this: if we were limited to the thoughts of average people, how advanced would our civilization be by now? We'd be lucky to have advanced beyond hunter-gatherer societies.

All throughout history, it has been a tiny fraction of humans who have driven the entire species forward, by coming up with brilliant ideas that would not have occurred to the average person. Someone had to invent the wheel. Someone had to invent agriculture. Someone had to invent irrigation. Someone had to figure out how to smelt metals. Someone had to invent gunpowder, or the microchip.

Our particular gift was the ability to spread those ideas among the people who weren't smart enough to think of them on their own, preserve those ideas, and pass them on to future generations.

There could very well be an occasional dolphin who is born brilliant, but it doesn't do the other dolphins any good, because his abilities will die with him.


So, the biggest difference between us and other animals is that we found a way to preserve our thoughts and observations through writing and drawing, and I agree with that completely. And we couldn't have figured out how to do that without abstract thought... and opposable thumbs... would I be correct there, or did I miss something? It's quite possible I did.



  /l、
゙(゚、 。 7
 l、゙ ~ヽ
 じしf_, )ノ

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:37pm
Kneel before Zod!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-11-18 04:08pm
Posts: 23034
Location: I'mma let you finish
SilverWingedSeraph wrote:
Well, by that reasoning, the only difference between Humans and other mammals is that we have evolved different traits to a greater extent than they have, and vice-versa. So, nothing really makes us that special.


That was pretty much my point.



"If God didn't want us to masturbate, he would've made our arms shorter."

Image Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:40pm
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 2007-02-15 12:56pm
Posts: 595
Location: Tasmania, Australia
General Zod wrote:
SilverWingedSeraph wrote:
Well, by that reasoning, the only difference between Humans and other mammals is that we have evolved different traits to a greater extent than they have, and vice-versa. So, nothing really makes us that special.


That was pretty much my point.


I can agree with that.



  /l、
゙(゚、 。 7
 l、゙ ~ヽ
 じしf_, )ノ

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:44pm
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Posts: 68896
Location: Toronto, Canada
SilverWingedSeraph wrote:
So, the biggest difference between us and other animals is that we found a way to preserve our thoughts and observations through writing and drawing, and I agree with that completely. And we couldn't have figured out how to do that without abstract thought... and opposable thumbs... would I be correct there, or did I miss something? It's quite possible I did.

Actually, human civilization can become quite advanced even without writing, using only oral traditions. But of course, it will hit a limit because of its inability to thoroughly explore math and science without formalized written communication.



Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html


Last edited by Darth Wong on 2007-10-02 05:44pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 05:44pm
Jedi Council Member
User avatar

Joined: 2004-03-26 02:58am
Posts: 2242
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Regarding Kanastrous' cats disobeying his/her godliness:
Kanastrous wrote:
I noticed that English wasn't penetrating, pretty early on.

Now I enforce commandments via my Cosmic Holy Spray Bottle.

Clearly you need to construct a CatBot with a built-in English-to-Meow translator, which will follow them all the time and preach at them. Just don't leave any nails or planks of wood lying around.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 06:09pm
Sith Acolyte

Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Posts: 5061
Location: Sinking Your Battleship
Just for yucks, it would be fun to try and establish the First Church of You're Nothing Special, Asshole.



"The first time I saw him, I don't know, I just wanted to kick his ass. I wanted to build a machine to kick his ass. I wanted to found an empire to house the machine to kick his ass!"

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 06:10pm
Sith Acolyte

Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Posts: 5061
Location: Sinking Your Battleship
Winston Blake wrote:
Regarding Kanastrous' cats disobeying his/her godliness:
Kanastrous wrote:
I noticed that English wasn't penetrating, pretty early on.

Now I enforce commandments via my Cosmic Holy Spray Bottle.

Clearly you need to construct a CatBot with a built-in English-to-Meow translator, which will follow them all the time and preach at them. Just don't leave any nails or planks of wood lying around.


Because someone will build a bigger plank with a nail in it, and then a bigger plank with a nail in it, and...mwuhahahahaha!



"The first time I saw him, I don't know, I just wanted to kick his ass. I wanted to build a machine to kick his ass. I wanted to found an empire to house the machine to kick his ass!"

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2007-10-02 06:16pm
Jedi Council Member
User avatar

Joined: 2004-03-26 02:58am
Posts: 2242
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Kanastrous wrote:
Winston Blake wrote:
Clearly you need to construct a CatBot with a built-in English-to-Meow translator, which will follow them all the time and preach at them. Just don't leave any nails or planks of wood lying around.

Because someone will build a bigger plank with a nail in it, and then a bigger plank with a nail in it, and...mwuhahahahaha!

Actually the idea was that you would come home from work one day to find your only begotten CatBot nailed to a cross, it's last meows recorded in it's memory as being 'Father, why have you forsaken me?'.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

It is currently 2010-07-30 06:38am


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group