A cobra class destroyer in the Trekverse

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

User avatar
Zor
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5858
Joined: 2004-06-08 03:37am

A cobra class destroyer in the Trekverse

Post by Zor » 2007-02-06 10:16pm

As of July in 2370, an event happens that shakes the trekverse.

In a freak accedent a Cobra Class Destroyer and an Imperial Transport going to do something disapears in a warp annomally. However, fate grants a repreive for these spacecraft and spits it out in the trekverse aproximatly 100 billion kilometers from Bajor.

The Transport carries (as well as several dropships) the following things...

-50,000 Imperial Guardsmen of average quality with Standard Lasguns
-5,000 Lascannnons
-5,000 Heavy Bolters
-2,000 Imperial Stormtroopers
-500 Leman Russ Battletanks
-500 Basilisks
-500 Chimeras
-300 Hellhound
-1,000 Sentinels
-50 Commissioners
-25 Techpreists led by a guy named Steve
-Plenty of ammunition and spare parts

What happens?

Zor
HAIL ZOR! WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms
WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/ind
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/tra
Terran Sphere
The Art of Zor

User avatar
Teleros
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1544
Joined: 2006-03-31 02:11pm
Location: Ultra Prime, Klovia
Contact:

Post by Teleros » 2007-02-06 11:01pm

Tanks? Artillery? Against redshirts? Ouch...

Couple of questions first:
1) Can the Imperial ships travel FTL, if at all? And if so, by what means?
2) Is there any chance of reinforcements at an unspecified later date? And if not, how zealous are our servants of the God-Emperor? Whilst I doubt it'd make much difference when it comes to nuking <insert planet here>, in the long run it could mean either a new outpost of Imperial rule or an all-new power in the AQ.

User avatar
Master of Cards
Jedi Master
Posts: 1168
Joined: 2005-03-06 10:54am
Contact:

Post by Master of Cards » 2007-02-06 11:15pm

Teleros wrote:Tanks? Artillery? Against redshirts? Ouch...

Couple of questions first:
1) Can the Imperial ships travel FTL, if at all? And if so, by what means?
2) Is there any chance of reinforcements at an unspecified later date? And if not, how zealous are our servants of the God-Emperor? Whilst I doubt it'd make much difference when it comes to nuking <insert planet here>, in the long run it could mean either a new outpost of Imperial rule or an all-new power in the AQ.
1) the Warp which is about 8-12 months across the galaxy on good days, (warp being clear in ST 8 months across i'll say)
2)Catholic Mulesm cross on a Jhaid/crusade all the time and VERY VERY xenophoblic.

User avatar
Uraniun235
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13772
Joined: 2002-09-12 12:47am
Location: OREGON
Contact:

Post by Uraniun235 » 2007-02-06 11:58pm

This is just retarded. The 40K ship will waltz through anything the Federation fleet can throw at them, and 40K ground forces would be a formidable threat for a reasonably equipped army, never mind the pajama brigade.

Zor, is this really the best you could do?
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
Image
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk

User avatar
Feil
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1937
Joined: 2006-05-17 05:05pm
Location: Illinois, USA

Post by Feil » 2007-02-07 12:16am

Well... the Federation can pack up and leave. With no Astronomican, the Imperials are going to be limited to a few light years per day if they can manage faster-than-light at all--hardly galaxy-crossing speeds by any account.

As for actual combat... U235 has said all that needs to be said.

User avatar
Coalition
Jedi Master
Posts: 1237
Joined: 2002-09-13 11:46am
Contact:

QQ against them

Post by Coalition » 2007-02-07 04:27am

I'd see it as Bajor getting conquered, and the Imperial forces simply park there. They fortify the system as much as possible, but soon run into lack of consecrated spare parts for the ships/equipment.

They wind up having to trade with the local powers for what they need, and their own high-tech equipment slowly breaks down. Without FTL capability, they might use the Cobra as a heavily armed mobile base (or space station) in the Bajor system, slowly mining the planets and moons for the raw materials they need. The knee-jerk reaction to hearing about warp drives will have to be controlled, so they can actually have FTL ability.

Oh, and Bajor gets purified for the Emperor in the first few months, until someone mentions that they need the locals as slave labor. This purification promptly turns most of the AQ against them, so attempts to get supplies become much harder. Ferengi traders might become their best bet, but even that will not be much (having to run the Federation blockade).

Still, if this is before the Dominion War, the Jem'Hadar will run into a nasty roadblock when they try to come through (if ever, the wormhole might never be discovered). Even better, is if the planet is in Cardassian hands, the Cardies get slaughtered, and the Bajorans, if they think quickly, identify themselves as a variant type of human so they get to live. DS9 is purified with cleansing flamer and plasma fire, so no annoying programs later to deal with.

For DS9, the Cobra destroyer might have problems. They are only equipped with Torpedos and point defense, so they either annihilate the station with the first shot (torp hit), or they use their turrets to take down the shields, and capture the station.

An Adeptus Mechanicus ship/fleet would have better success in this measure, as they will likely have a complete database for basic mining and construction equipment.

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11936
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2007-02-07 05:36am

Cobras have a one point dorsal batteries as well as torpedoes. This is absolutely pathetic by BSG standards, but since BSG standards include megaton level point defence and even a single point of weapon battery can unleash a barrage of hundreds of gigatons over a handful of minutes. More than enough to rape almost anything in Trek.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Coalition
Jedi Master
Posts: 1237
Joined: 2002-09-13 11:46am
Contact:

Post by Coalition » 2007-02-07 06:36am

Imperial Overlord wrote:Cobras have a one point dorsal batteries as well as torpedoes. This is absolutely pathetic by BSG standards, but since BSG standards include megaton level point defence and even a single point of weapon battery can unleash a barrage of hundreds of gigatons over a handful of minutes. More than enough to rape almost anything in Trek.
You're right, I forgot about that battery. I'm so used to the constant reference to Cobras being little more than missile pods with shields that I forgot that detail. So the Cobra would be able to drop the shields on DS9 fairly quickly, and the troops would be able to deal with the defenders easily (Cardies w/ their weapons vs Imperial stormtroopers = dead Cardies).

Nitpick: BFG, not BSG.

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11936
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2007-02-07 06:41am

It's an easy mistake to make. 1 point worth of firepower is laughable in BFG terms. Even massing them in a squadron of three only gives you three points, which translates to two dice if you're lucky and a single success once every blue moon. It's the torpedoes that give the Cobra its punch in a BFG fight, the battery being laughable, but its still ~1km warship with 40K guns in Treksville.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27180
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord » 2007-02-07 07:56am

The transport has a point or two of batteries too. Between them, that's a few teratons every few minutes, at a range of 30/300 megameters.

Trek is in a world of hurt.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth

User avatar
speaker-to-trolls
Jedi Master
Posts: 1182
Joined: 2003-11-18 05:46pm
Location: All Hail Britannia!
Contact:

Post by speaker-to-trolls » 2007-02-07 11:08am

Once the purification of Bajor is over and done with this is going to get a little difficult for the Imperials. They only have three ships so that doesn't allow them a lot of mobility outside of the Bajor system, and with a grand total of twenty five tech-priests they are unlikely to build up the industrial resources to make another ship or refit native ones with Imperial weaponry. On the other hand, as already mentioned, with the kind of firepower they have then none of the native powers (possibly excepting the Dominion with its trademark swarms) can touch them.

What I see happening in the long run is the Imperials turning Bajor and maybe two other systems into their own mini-Imperium, ruled by first the captain of the Cobra, then by his XO when he dies, and so on down the line. Obviously they'd have to start training new crew at some point, so they would probably encourage the existing crewmembers and guardsmen to breed so that they wouldn't need to start training the slaves (Bajorans) as officers.
If the Imperium weren't quite as psychotic I would say they would eventually calm down and start trading with the natives, giving some of their generator technology in exchange for raw materials and native warp drives. However, this is the Imperium, so they would probably get what they need by extortion or force, send a transport over to a native planet, tell them to hand over whatever is needed, natives do so, maybe bombard the planet anyway on principle. This state could last indefinitely (meaning until the natives have the technology to fight back), as this is the Imperium we are talking about, and if there is one thing they do well, it is maintain the status quo.
Post Number 1066 achieved Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:19 pm(board time, 8:19GMT)
Batman: What do these guys want anyway?
Superman: Take over the world... Or rob banks, I'm not sure.

Inquisitor Ryan
Youngling
Posts: 147
Joined: 2006-11-05 11:24pm

Post by Inquisitor Ryan » 2007-02-09 09:57pm

DS9: Will be destroyed, no matter what. It is filthy Xenos tech, the Imperium troops will make no attempt to capture it at all, likely they won't even consider it.
Bajor: If the Cardies are there they are butchered and the Bajorans inducted as slave labor or human varients, which could fabricate some good will for the Imperium troops for "liberating" the planet. Until they encounter another alien race like the Klingons or Romulans. Klingons may be mistaken for mutants but the Romulans will be mistaken for pathetically weak Eldar.
But we must consider what occurs if the Adeptus Mechanicus with them manage to configure replicators to serve as low-tech STC databases...
Image

Reality is like a kick in the balls, you see something you like and WHAM!

User avatar
Enigma
is a laughing fool.
Posts: 7676
Joined: 2003-04-30 10:24pm
Location: c nnyhjdyt yr 45

Post by Enigma » 2007-02-09 11:50pm

I forget. Don't the Dominion employ kamikaze tactics? If so, would that cause trouble for the Imps?
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)

"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons

ASSCRAVATS!

Inquisitor Ryan
Youngling
Posts: 147
Joined: 2006-11-05 11:24pm

Post by Inquisitor Ryan » 2007-02-10 12:28am

Enigma wrote:I forget. Don't the Dominion employ kamikaze tactics? If so, would that cause trouble for the Imps?
Not at all. Orks use Ramming "taktics" all the time in space. And Dominion vessels are like crepepaper to 40k weapons.
Image

Reality is like a kick in the balls, you see something you like and WHAM!

Inquisitor Ryan
Youngling
Posts: 147
Joined: 2006-11-05 11:24pm

Post by Inquisitor Ryan » 2007-02-10 08:23am

Lost Soal wrote:
Inquisitor Ryan wrote:DS9: Will be destroyed, no matter what. It is filthy Xenos tech, the Imperium troops will make no attempt to capture it at all, likely they won't even consider it.
So were the Blackstones. They used them, they will use DS9 just as happily.
But the Blackstones were inert and unoccupied. Relics, abandoned pieces of detrius essentially.
The DS9 is not.
Image

Reality is like a kick in the balls, you see something you like and WHAM!

User avatar
Lost Soal
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2493
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Post by Lost Soal » 2007-02-10 08:31am

Inquisitor Ryan wrote:
Lost Soal wrote:
Inquisitor Ryan wrote:DS9: Will be destroyed, no matter what. It is filthy Xenos tech, the Imperium troops will make no attempt to capture it at all, likely they won't even consider it.
So were the Blackstones. They used them, they will use DS9 just as happily.
But the Blackstones were inert and unoccupied. Relics, abandoned pieces of detrius essentially.
The DS9 is not.
And??
You claim that DS9 will be destroyed "no matter what" because it is Xenos tech. The use of the Blackstones prove otherwise, plus they don't have the pritanical might and orders of the Imperium breathing down their necks.

Their alone, and as such will likely start making a few compromises in their ideology in order to stay alive, which means studying and using captured tech and not attacking a planet they know nothing about with only 1 light combat ship available. They may hate aliens, but they won't go on a mindless killing spree simply because their near them.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.

User avatar
Prozac the Robert
Jedi Master
Posts: 1327
Joined: 2004-05-05 09:01am
Location: UK

Post by Prozac the Robert » 2007-02-10 11:41am

Inquisitor Ryan wrote:But we must consider what occurs if the Adeptus Mechanicus with them manage to configure replicators to serve as low-tech STC databases...
What? STC technology is almost entirely lost. Its power was to be able to create the perfect design for any scenario. need a tank that floats on liquid methane and is powered by ground up pigeons? Sure. Want to design a flashlight in the shape of a rifle? You're in luck, it can design lasguns :wink:. You can no more use a replicator as an STC database than use a table as a teapot.
Hi! I'm Prozac the Robert!

EBC: "We can categorically state that we will be releasing giant man-eating badgers into the area."

User avatar
andrewgpaul
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:04pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-02-10 11:46am

The STC system didn't design new items (such as the pigeon-powered hovertank), it simply acted as a repository of any and all human designs up to the date is was programmed. So, if someone had already designed the pigeon-powered tank, it'd be in there, but it didn't spontaneously design something that hadn't been invented before.
"So you want to live on a planet?"
"No. I think I'd find it a bit small and wierd."
"Aren't they dangerous? Don't they get hit by stuff?"

Inquisitor Ryan
Youngling
Posts: 147
Joined: 2006-11-05 11:24pm

Post by Inquisitor Ryan » 2007-02-10 12:09pm

Prozac the Robert wrote:
Inquisitor Ryan wrote:But we must consider what occurs if the Adeptus Mechanicus with them manage to configure replicators to serve as low-tech STC databases...
What? STC technology is almost entirely lost. Its power was to be able to create the perfect design for any scenario. need a tank that floats on liquid methane and is powered by ground up pigeons? Sure. Want to design a flashlight in the shape of a rifle? You're in luck, it can design lasguns :wink:. You can no more use a replicator as an STC database than use a table as a teapot.
They're factories and databases, and nowhere near lost!
STC Units are mostly damaged or "incomplete" when the Imperium finds them, or it gets taken by the AdMech and is never seen again.
It serves almost the exact same function as the federation replicators, it takes a design from it's stored information database and uses raw materials to make it.
Image

Reality is like a kick in the balls, you see something you like and WHAM!

User avatar
andrewgpaul
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:04pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-02-10 12:21pm

No it doesn't. It simply provides the plans for whatever you want to build, at the appropriate tech-level, so if a farmer on a backwards agri-world asks for a design for something to transport is produce to market, he'll get a wooden horse-drawn wagon. If a farmer on a more advanced world asks the same thing, he'll get the plans for an automatic hover-vehicle with autopilot and GPS navigation. If the garmer on the backwards world really wants that hover-truck, the STS can give him the plans for steam engines, prospecting and mining equipment, the plans for the electronics factories and vehicle manufacturing plants, schematics for the AI to drive the truck, the design for the GPS satellites and launch vehicles ...

IIRC, there are no remaining functional STC databases anywhere in the Imperium. All that remains are copies of copies of copies of printouts obtained before the systems crashed during the Age of Strife.
"So you want to live on a planet?"
"No. I think I'd find it a bit small and wierd."
"Aren't they dangerous? Don't they get hit by stuff?"

User avatar
Lost Soal
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2493
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Post by Lost Soal » 2007-02-10 12:37pm

andrewgpaul wrote:No it doesn't. It simply provides the plans for whatever you want to build, at the appropriate tech-level, so if a farmer on a backwards agri-world asks for a design for something to transport is produce to market, he'll get a wooden horse-drawn wagon. If a farmer on a more advanced world asks the same thing, he'll get the plans for an automatic hover-vehicle with autopilot and GPS navigation. If the garmer on the backwards world really wants that hover-truck, the STS can give him the plans for steam engines, prospecting and mining equipment, the plans for the electronics factories and vehicle manufacturing plants, schematics for the AI to drive the truck, the design for the GPS satellites and launch vehicles ...

IIRC, there are no remaining functional STC databases anywhere in the Imperium. All that remains are copies of copies of copies of printouts obtained before the systems crashed during the Age of Strife.
Actually their are both. There are Template Constructs which produce one thing, i.e the Men of Iron in First and Only, then there is the database which holds the sum total of mankinds knowledge.

And while the Imperium doesn't have a functioning database system in its possession, their is at least one system being hidden on a world within their domain. These things were sent to every planet that the original colonists expanded to, given how wide spread they are and the number of human worlds still being discovered, there is ample chance of finding of finding more STC's in the future.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.

User avatar
andrewgpaul
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:04pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-02-10 12:50pm

Lost Soal wrote:Actually there are both. There are Template Constructs which produce one thing, i.e the Men of Iron in First and Only, then there is the database which holds the sum total of mankind's knowledge.

And while the Imperium doesn't have a functioning database system in its possession, their is at least one system being hidden on a world within their domain. These things were sent to every planet that the original colonists expanded to, given how wide spread they are and the number of human worlds still being discovered, there is ample chance of finding of finding more STC's in the future.
Argh, blasted GW revisionism. Some of these Black Library authors should be reprimanded. With a club with nails in.

Is the one you're mentioning the one from the old short story from Deathwing?
"So you want to live on a planet?"
"No. I think I'd find it a bit small and wierd."
"Aren't they dangerous? Don't they get hit by stuff?"

User avatar
Lost Soal
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2493
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Post by Lost Soal » 2007-02-10 01:00pm

I believe it is from deathwing yes.
And I don't know about it being revisionism. If your talking about the units from First and Only which actually make stuff, I don't believe its ever been disclosed how Forgeworlds manufacture all those tanks and weapons, simply that they use STC designs, so for all we know the Forge Worlds are full on Construct units producing tanks and equipment to order, as opposed to an assembly line which we would use.

As for the deathwing story, the fluff has simply stated that the AdMech is looking but has yet to find one, but his said. from 2nd Ed Codex Imperialis, that a fully functioning STC system may still exist on some world waiting to be discovered. They left themselves an opening long ago to bring up hidden STC's
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.

User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27180
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord » 2007-02-10 01:08pm

The thing in First and Only is a Standard Template Constructor - an automated factory pumping out STC designs. The thing in Deathwing is a Standard Template Construct Archive. The Deathwing one tells you how to make the First and Only one. It's not a contradiction at all.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth

User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer » 2007-02-10 01:18pm

Copy and pasted since Fucky McAss-stain had to get the worthwhile part of the discussion split.
Stormbringer wrote:
Mobird53 wrote:basically what every one has been saying, cept that in the long run the transport and the cobra start to get out of shape, and since the imperials don't have the resouces they need to fix them.
Which could take a matter of centuries if not millenia. In the Battlefield Gothic fluff a warship, a light cruiser I believe, was built in no small measure by parts tributed by a culture which was extremely primitive (not more than Classical Technology). No doubt the more advanced worlds of the Imperium provided certain more advanced parts like warp engineers and reactors. But an Imperium ship is quite rugged, readily repairable out of local materials, and will often see centuries if not millenia of duty. These vessels will be working for the long haul; it's quite possible that they can replicate the tech-base for further classes with acess to a conquered world.
Stormbringer wrote:I think the real question of this is whether the Cobra's captain and the Guard Officers bother conquering Bajor or if they go straight for a Crusade to save Holy Terra?

If they go for the throat like that the whole Federation is suddenly teetering on the brink of collapse and the Imperium forces suddenly have a HUGE propoganda victory in their eyes. No doubt they will be seeking a out the Emperor of Man (which raises the question if he exists in this alternate reality).

Either way sitting on Earth, the Moon, and Mars gives them a huge potential power base which will make things quite interesting.
Image

Post Reply