You vs. the Alpha Quadrant

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:24am

JJP wrote:No, the frigging "Art and Culture" sections.

No need to be rude.

Anyway, the torp calcs are based off the TMs, correct? The validity of the TMs has been in turmoil for some time now. Torp calcs (and phasers for that matter) to vary wildly, from the kilton range, to high megaton range. The amount of damage done to the Imps and the amount taken by the Feds depends on if you want the low-end or high-end. If low-end, then a clear Imperial victory will happen. if high end (I've seen figures floating around of 500MT torps), then 141 against 2000 is a bit beyond the Imps reach. 500 Imp ships, or perhaps even 300, and the Imps can win.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:26am

Core Commander wrote:sorry, i forgot that. alright then. engine ramming attacks might do some damage, but then again, did anybody say anything about the TIE fighters?

TIES will be a nusiance in small numbers, a threat in large enough numbers. But detonating a torpedo in the midst of a large group of TIEs won't be good for them

Of course, what type of fighters do you want to play with here? The unshielded things from ANH, or bombers, or the nastier stuff like TIE Advanced or TIE Defenders? The last two WILL give grief to the Fed fleet, and wouldn't be as vulnerable to torp detonations.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-07-06 11:26am

posted earlier by Sothis:
Yawn- Have you considered how powerful that single cube was?

We're talking about a Imp fleet totalling 141 ships. Those ships have to last for 10 years against thousands of other ships, plus planetary defences and starbases. If we assume that each of the main Alpha Quadrant powers has 2000 ships (generous in some cases, I admit)..

Well, we have the Feds, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. 8000 ships. 8000 ships for those 141 ships to fight over 10 years. Plus, the thread starter stipulated just 2 million ground troops. If we assume a population of 5 billion for each homeworld, that's 2 million troops having to dominate over 20 billion people, across a large distance. Do you see that brute force won't work here?

actually it's not the brute force, it's the fear of it.

Core Commander · Post by **Core Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:29am

I'm thinking TIE Advanced/Cloak fighters

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:31am

Anonymous wrote:
posted earlier by Sothis:
Yawn- Have you considered how powerful that single cube was?

We're talking about a Imp fleet totalling 141 ships. Those ships have to last for 10 years against thousands of other ships, plus planetary defences and starbases. If we assume that each of the main Alpha Quadrant powers has 2000 ships (generous in some cases, I admit)..

Well, we have the Feds, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. 8000 ships. 8000 ships for those 141 ships to fight over 10 years. Plus, the thread starter stipulated just 2 million ground troops. If we assume a population of 5 billion for each homeworld, that's 2 million troops having to dominate over 20 billion people, across a large distance. Do you see that brute force won't work here?
actually it's not the brute force, it's the fear of it.

Perhaps, but as I suggested before, tactics of befriendment/technological help/helping to wipe out one's enemies will be better. The Imps could promise a particular government those things, thus gaining an ally (not to mention greater resources and a nice place to park their ships), and then help said ally on the way to victory. For example, they could ally with the Klingons and attack the Romulans or Cardassians. Perhaps with a bit of subterfuge they could stay out of the fighting alltogether, let the Alpha Quadrant implode, then when the 10 years are up, reinforcements can arrive and the Imps can steamroll everyone. After all, the best victory is the one that reaps you the most gain for the minimal use of resources.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 11:32am

Core Commander wrote:I'm thinking TIE Advanced/Cloak fighters

Do they have cloaked fighters

But the Advanced would be nasty- they carry missiles and torps don't they, as opposed to just blasters?

Core Commander · Post by **Core Commander** » 2002-07-06 11:39am

the cloaked fighters are on the Star Wars Technical Commentaries Website.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-06 11:51am

Sothis wrote: Yawn- Have you considered how powerful that single cube was?

We're talking about a Imp fleet totalling 141 ships. Those ships have to last for 10 years against thousands of other ships, plus planetary defences and starbases. If we assume that each of the main Alpha Quadrant powers has 2000 ships (generous in some cases, I admit)..

Well, we have the Feds, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. 8000 ships. 8000 ships for those 141 ships to fight over 10 years. Plus, the thread starter stipulated just 2 million ground troops. If we assume a population of 5 billion for each homeworld, that's 2 million troops having to dominate over 20 billion people, across a large distance. Do you see that brute force won't work here?

Look at the campaign section footnotes:
A single shot from an Acclamator's heavy guns is equivalen to hundreds of thousands of photon torpedoes!
Now, let's assume an ISDs heavy guns are not more powerful than an Acclamator's heavy guns.
Then, this in fact means that a single hit from an ISD's heavy guns will kill any Federation, Klingon, Dominion, Cardassian, Romulan, and probably Borg ship immediately.

So, unless the Feds don't star using Warp ramming suicide attacks massively, they won't do any damage to the Imperial Fleet at all,
even with a huge numerical advantage.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-07-06 11:55am

I believe that one of the best actions to take over the Alpha quadrent would be to do exactly like Wong's fanfic. This would involve wiping out the group that would most likely fight against you, the Federation, and allying yourself with a nearby power that could pose a problem if you were too go to war with them, Klingons would have that nasty habit of ramming their ships into the ISDs, Victorys, and the SSD which although is not that much of a problem can add up. Use the Klingons too take out the other major powers in the Alpha quadrent letting them use mostly their own forces, weakening them and when everyone else is destroyed turn on the Klingons and blow them away. This probably takes a year or two and you own most of the Alpha quadrent which you reinforce and start to build shipyards too reinforce your numbers with the ships you build at the said shipyards and your main problem then is the rebellion and if you play your cards right the general public loves you and you don't need to post Stormtroopers at the worlds and heck the people of those worlds will probably join the Empire. Then all you have to do is wait for reinforcements.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-06 12:05pm

I agree that, although applying brute force would also be possible, the best thing would be forging alliances with some of the powers, and taking on the others one after one.
Just make it the way the Romans did it:
Leave your elite legions behind while your allies do the dirty work.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-06 01:52pm

Sothis wrote:
Core Commander wrote:honestly. the feds couldn't beat a puny Borg Cube. a SINGLE Borg Cube. what about 13 ships with more firepower, and more shields? THe FEDs WOULD GET THEIR ASSES KICKED.

Yawn- Have you considered how powerful that single cube was?

Yep, powerful enough to last against the sporadic and hopelessly uncoordinated attacks of the Fed Fleet. However as no Fed ship ever deployed weapons in the GigaTon range but still managed to defeat the Cube, an ISD would wipe one out in rather short order. BTW no matter how tired you are, there's no need to yawn in public, it's rude.

We're talking about a Imp fleet totalling 141 ships. Those ships have to last for 10 years against thousands of other ships, plus planetary defences and starbases. If we assume that each of the main Alpha Quadrant powers has 2000 ships (generous in some cases, I admit)..
Excuse me, where did this ten year figure come from? What the hell makes you think it would take ten years when they could cross the Milky Way in 14 days?

Well, we have the Feds, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. 8000 ships. 8000 ships for those 141 ships to fight over 10 years.

1. Each Race would be fucked over individually long before they could unite.
2. Look how difficult it was to get them all to play together against the dominion and you won't have the luxury of time the Feds had then.
3. Here's that 10 years nonsense again.

Plus, the thread starter stipulated just 2 million ground troops. If we assume a population of 5 billion for each homeworld, that's 2 million troops having to dominate over 20 billion people, across a large distance. Do you see that brute force won't work here?

Excuse me, but why do I need to Garison a smoking pile of Rubble? You wipe out the indiginous populations and use droids to build factories to build droids to mine th minerals and build the Cities for your own Personnel to inhabit. If you can get the Wormhole working again you then have a rich supply of ready made colony worlds for your SW citizens to expand into (at a modest price) and no need to worry about the natives (as they are now free floating atoms). You seem to a have problem grasping the fundamentals of Total war here. The Empire isn't here to Conquer and civilise this Galaxy, thy're here to turn it into home, previous occupants need not apply.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-06 02:08pm

Just to clarify, the 2 million men consist of 1 million troops and 1 million men for crews and such.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-07-06 02:21pm

It is a generally bad idea to go around destroying planetary populations because with the limited forces you have it's a bad idea to go around pissing everybody in the Star Trek universe off. Plus you will need converts to fly ships. Although you can destroy the planetary populations i would hold off on that until after you have destroyed a very good portion of all enemy fleets.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-06 02:39pm

Captain_Cyran wrote:
It is a generally bad idea to go around destroying planetary populations because with the limited forces you have it's a bad idea to go around pissing everybody in the Star Wars universe off.

How exactly ould i be pissing off anyone i the SW universe by providing lots of free real estate ready for use in the ST universe?

Plus you will need converts to fly ships. Although you can destroy the planetary populations i would hold off on that until after you have destroyed a very good portion of all enemy fleets.

So you're recommending that I hold off for a few days before wiping the ST population out, just so i can crew my fighters with people that I'm attacking? Nah, bugger that, I'm hitting their fleet before they can muster any resistance, so I'm hitting maybe a collection of 20 ships with 40 ships and hunting down the lone ones as they cruise through space, with Hyperdrive making my ships faster than the Comms network of Starfleet. hell half my victims won't even know there's a threat until they're debris. From there I can simultaneously destroy planetary populations at will and not have any worries. I have no need to worry about meeting big fleets as there would be no time for them to organise them, Starfleet typically sends ships all over the place on thier own and that makes for easy pickings.

Crush them utterly and don't give ythem a chance to organise or think. Earth would be BDZed in the first wave as would every shipyard and Homeworld of Signifigance. The first day would leave the UFP so fucked they won't know which orifice hurts the most.

I give the UFp 1 week tops before being utterly depopulated with only the bare remnants of a fleet. After that, things get tricky, Wipe out the Klingons as a sideline to hitting the Romulans (the real threat). Maybe I'd have to frce them into fleet battle (after all, with Romulus and Remus as charred balls of rock and their colonie threatened they must fight or lose everything) and a massed fleet battle against the firepower my fleet represents means dead Romulans the minute they try that ST tactic of a wall of ships as I'd Hyper to thier flanks (plus top and bottom as this is 3D) and smash thm before hypering again to a new position and hitting again as they try to redeploy. Hunt down any cloaked ships and keep smashing them til there's nothing left. And then destroy what's left of their colonies.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 03:10pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:
Sothis wrote: Yawn- Have you considered how powerful that single cube was?

We're talking about a Imp fleet totalling 141 ships. Those ships have to last for 10 years against thousands of other ships, plus planetary defences and starbases. If we assume that each of the main Alpha Quadrant powers has 2000 ships (generous in some cases, I admit)..

Well, we have the Feds, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. 8000 ships. 8000 ships for those 141 ships to fight over 10 years. Plus, the thread starter stipulated just 2 million ground troops. If we assume a population of 5 billion for each homeworld, that's 2 million troops having to dominate over 20 billion people, across a large distance. Do you see that brute force won't work here?

Look at the campaign section footnotes:
A single shot from an Acclamator's heavy guns is equivalen to hundreds of thousands of photon torpedoes!
Now, let's assume an ISDs heavy guns are not more powerful than an Acclamator's heavy guns.
Then, this in fact means that a single hit from an ISD's heavy guns will kill any Federation, Klingon, Dominion, Cardassian, Romulan, and probably Borg ship immediately.

So, unless the Feds don't star using Warp ramming suicide attacks massively, they won't do any damage to the Imperial Fleet at all,
even with a huge numerical advantage.

Assuming of course, that the multi-gigaton weaponry spoken of in the ICS has been demonstrated? At the moment it stands in an official, yet unverified document. At any rate, the torp calcs which most confrontations are based off the questionable TMs.

Besides, you're also overlooking the fact the the Imp fleet has to hit the Fed ships with their heavy weapons. On ISDs those heavy weapons are poorly placed to hit the more agile Fed ships.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-07-06 03:13pm

Good tactic...I'd made a spelling error i'd meant pissing off everyone in the Trek universe which usually mean that they combine fleets etc. and although you would probably win your forces would be greviously injured. As for lots of real estate those are the planets which are still inhabitable after your BDZ craze.

My battle plans involve the quick BDZ of major UFP cities and facilities, destruction of all of their shipyards and ordering their surrender. Make a part time ally of the Klingons and give them acouple of Carrack cruisers and let them have a ball in attacking the Romulans, Cardassians, and pretty much everyone else. Once they are done their forces are so depleted you turn on them and crush their remaining forces and then crush what's left of the Alpha quadrent fleets.

After all of this you make yourselves look like the good guys, lots of propeganda etc. and try to get the people on your side. Most great leaders have been heroes in the peoples eyes, he who owns the public owns the universe. After this build your own shipyards and begin building up a larger navy to deal with anything that is left. Within a year tops this plan is done and you have a whole bunch of loyal Imperials by the time the wormhole opens again and with the reinforcements you get from the wormhole you go take ovr the rest of the Milky Way.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-06 03:16pm

Sothis wrote:
Assuming of course, that the multi-gigaton weaponry spoken of in the ICS has been demonstrated? At the moment it stands in an official, yet unverified document.

You are aware of Lucasfilms Canon policy aren't you? IF it's an Official publication and it's not contradicted in the films then it is correct. Therefore the 200 GT yeild Turbolasers on the 20 year old transport ship are correct and htere's little doubt that a dedicated combat ship would have even more powerful weapons 20 years later.

Learn to live with it.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 03:24pm

Rob Wilson wrote:
Sothis wrote:
Core Commander wrote:honestly. the feds couldn't beat a puny Borg Cube. a SINGLE Borg Cube. what about 13 ships with more firepower, and more shields? THe FEDs WOULD GET THEIR ASSES KICKED.

Yawn- Have you considered how powerful that single cube was?

Yep, powerful enough to last against the sporadic and hopelessly uncoordinated attacks of the Fed Fleet. However as no Fed ship ever deployed weapons in the GigaTon range but still managed to defeat the Cube, an ISD would wipe one out in rather short order. BTW no matter how tired you are, there's no need to yawn in public, it's rude.

We're talking about a Imp fleet totalling 141 ships. Those ships have to last for 10 years against thousands of other ships, plus planetary defences and starbases. If we assume that each of the main Alpha Quadrant powers has 2000 ships (generous in some cases, I admit)..
Excuse me, where did this ten year figure come from? What the hell makes you think it would take ten years when they could cross the Milky Way in 14 days?

Well, we have the Feds, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians. 8000 ships. 8000 ships for those 141 ships to fight over 10 years.

1. Each Race would be fucked over individually long before they could unite.
2. Look how difficult it was to get them all to play together against the dominion and you won't have the luxury of time the Feds had then.
3. Here's that 10 years nonsense again.

Plus, the thread starter stipulated just 2 million ground troops. If we assume a population of 5 billion for each homeworld, that's 2 million troops having to dominate over 20 billion people, across a large distance. Do you see that brute force won't work here?
Excuse me, but why do I need to Garison a smoking pile of Rubble? You wipe out the indiginous populations and use droids to build factories to build droids to mine th minerals and build the Cities for your own Personnel to inhabit. If you can get the Wormhole working again you then have a rich supply of ready made colony worlds for your SW citizens to expand into (at a modest price) and no need to worry about the natives (as they are now free floating atoms). You seem to a have problem grasping the fundamentals of Total war here. The Empire isn't here to Conquer and civilise this Galaxy, thy're here to turn it into home, previous occupants need not apply.

You seem to have a problem grasping the fundemental conditions of this thread. As per the thread starter, the Imp fleet of 141 ships plus 2 million troops and a supply base has 10 years to conquer as much of the Alpha Quadrant as it can. Not to wipe out every last man woman and child, but to conquer.

I wasn't saying it takes 10 years for the Imp fleet to travel around the Alpha Quadrant, I was saying that in 10 years they will have to face a minimum of 8000 ships (not counting the Breen, Ferengi, or all the non-descript races of the Alpha Quadrant). They only have the 141 ships (which are NOT invincible), plus only 2 million troops with which to control at least 20 billion people.

The assumption seems to be that the Imp fleet will effortlessly leap from homeworld to homeworld without facing any resistance, whilst not having to care about guarding their supply base. Give me a fleet of 500 ISDs, and I can see a comfortable victory for the Imps, but instead, there's only that fleet of 141 ships, and not all of them are of ISD level.

You also call the Fed attack on the Borg cube 'sporadic'. In The Best of Both Worlds, 39 ships were involved, all of them destroyed. In First Contact, the battle starts in the Typhon Sector, and rages to Sector 001. if we assume that the sectors are side by side, that's still a long fought battle, that MUST have involved more than 39 ships, and lasted for as long as it took the Ent-E to return from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth- an unknown distance, but not unreasonable to assume that it be a few hours worth of travel. When you consider how quickly those 39 ships at Wolf 359 were destroyed, the Feds must have brought a lot more ships to play in First Contact. Either said ships were also a fair bit tougher, or the Borg absorbed a lot more firepower than before.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-06 03:26pm

Captain_Cyran wrote:
Good tactic...I'd made a spelling error i'd meant pissing off everyone in the Trek universe
D'oh, I should have guessed.

which usually mean that they combine fleets etc
As I said, they would not have the time to do so.

and although you would probably win your forces would be greviously injured. As for lots of real estate those are the planets which are still inhabitable after your BDZ craze.

Well I'm just going for the quick vape of the Population and removal of infrastructure rather than melting the surface down to 1m or anything like that (ammo conservation).

My battle plans involve the quick BDZ of major UFP cities and facilities, destruction of all of their shipyards and ordering their surrender.

Which leads to you having to police them, wondering if they're up to mo good, etc. Forget that, a dead planet is a peaceful planet, less to worry about and no distractions from the job of crushing everything you meet.

Make a part time ally of the Klingons and give them acouple of Carrack cruisers and let them have a ball in attacking the Romulans, Cardassians, and pretty much everyone else. Once they are done their forces are so depleted you turn on them and crush their remaining forces and then crush what's left of the Alpha quadrent fleets.

But by giving them Carracks you now have them with weaponry that ould damage your hips if concentrated, plus you have to waste time teaching them how to use them and so on. No, just wipe the annoying little fuckwits out and have done with it, afterall if you cannot detroy the klingon Empire in an afternoon with only semi-competent recruits you don't deserve to call yourself a soldier.

After all of this you make yourselves look like the good guys, lots of propeganda etc. and try to get the people on your side. Most great leaders have been heroes in the peoples eyes, he who owns the public owns the universe. After this build your own shipyards and begin building up a larger navy to deal with anything that is left. Within a year tops this plan is done and you have a whole bunch of loyal Imperials by the time the wormhole opens again and with the reinforcements you get from the wormhole you go take ovr the rest of the Milky Way

Again it's the time thing, you're slowing everything down and creating opportunitioes for failure rather than moving at your fleets best speeds and crushing all with no time for recovery and retaliation. Remember Speed, Aggression, Surprise.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 03:28pm

Rob Wilson wrote:
Sothis wrote:
Assuming of course, that the multi-gigaton weaponry spoken of in the ICS has been demonstrated? At the moment it stands in an official, yet unverified document.
You are aware of Lucasfilms Canon policy aren't you? IF it's an Official publication and it's not contradicted in the films then it is correct. Therefore the 200 GT yeild Turbolasers on the 20 year old transport ship are correct and htere's little doubt that a dedicated combat ship would have even more powerful weapons 20 years later.

Learn to live with it.

Show me this amazing firepower in a film and I'll believe it. Until then I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-06 03:34pm

[quote="Sothis] Assuming of course, that the multi-gigaton weaponry spoken of in the ICS has been demonstrated? At the moment it stands in an official, yet unverified document. At any rate, the torp calcs which most confrontations are based off the questionable TMs.

Besides, you're also overlooking the fact the the Imp fleet has to hit the Fed ships with their heavy weapons. On ISDs those heavy weapons are poorly placed to hit the more agile Fed ships.[/quote]

To point 1:
As Rob has already pointed out, the numbers are official, and not contradicted by canon.
In fact, only having such powerful would give an ISD the Base Delta Zero capability.

To point 2:
Oh yeah, the agile Federation ships. You can't really be serious about that?
They were able to hit tiny snubfighters with their heavy guns during the Battle of Yavin on the Death Star's surface, remember.
And the guns are not poorly placed.
They all cover the front, and half of them each broadside.
The only thing an enemy could do to avoid them is approaching from below.
Btw, contrary to common belief SW capships actually have maneuvering capabilities. See
http://www.skayhan.net/ISDmnvr.htm
for details.
Oh, and don't forget the light guns: They're more than equivalent to a photon torp each.

And need canon proof for the power of SW weaponry?
two words: Asteroid vaporisation.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-07-06 03:40pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:[quote="Sothis] Assuming of course, that the multi-gigaton weaponry spoken of in the ICS has been demonstrated? At the moment it stands in an official, yet unverified document. At any rate, the torp calcs which most confrontations are based off the questionable TMs.

Besides, you're also overlooking the fact the the Imp fleet has to hit the Fed ships with their heavy weapons. On ISDs those heavy weapons are poorly placed to hit the more agile Fed ships.

To point 1:
As Rob has already pointed out, the numbers are official, and not contradicted by canon.
In fact, only having such powerful would give an ISD the Base Delta Zero capability.

To point 2:
Oh yeah, the agile Federation ships. You can't really be serious about that?
They were able to hit tiny snubfighters with their heavy guns during the Battle of Yavin on the Death Star's surface, remember.
And the guns are not poorly placed.
They all cover the front, and half of them each broadside.
The only thing an enemy could do to avoid them is approaching from below.
Btw, contrary to common belief SW capships actually have maneuvering capabilities. See
http://www.skayhan.net/ISDmnvr.htm
for details.
Oh, and don't forget the heavy guns: They're more than equivalent to a photon torp each.[/quote]

Yawn- Point 1- Regardless of BDZ firepower, you HAVE seen the ISD haven't you? The weapons coverage that the HTL's provide ARE poorly placed, especially for hitting maneouverable Federation ships (well, maneouverable compared to every example of an Imperial capship shown on screen). A few seconds worth of ROTJ is contradicted straight off from TESB, when the two ISDs scraped into each other. If they possess such fantastic moving skills, why didn't they use them then?

You will also note that the effectiveness of the DS's gun emplacements was limited. TIEs had to be called upon to destroy the X-Wings and Y-Wings, as the emplacemens weren't up to the task.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-06 03:42pm

Sothis wrote:
You seem to have a problem grasping the fundemental conditions of this thread. As per the thread starter, the Imp fleet of 141 ships plus 2 million troops and a supply base has 10 years to conquer as much of the Alpha Quadrant as it can. Not to wipe out every last man woman and child, but to conquer
Wrong it was *ME* VS ST and I may have only a 10 year time limit, but as i made perfectly clear I don't need ten years.

I wasn't saying it takes 10 years for the Imp fleet to travel around the Alpha Quadrant, I was saying that in 10 years they will have to face a minimum of 8000 ships (not counting the Breen, Ferengi, or all the non-descript races of the Alpha Quadrant).
No I will only have to face individual fleets of no more than 2-300 at a time as I'm giving them no chance to gather anything larger and no hope of fighting on a fair playing field, let them deploy in typical Trek fashion and I'll rip them apart from the flanks and rear while they're spining in circle wondering which way is up. And as I am leaving no survivors theirs no way for anyone else to learn from their mistakes. Each time will be a new experience to them and another day at the office for me.

They only have the 141 ships (which are NOT invincible), plus only 2 million troops with which to control at least 20 billion people.
Apparently you can't read, I am not taking prisoners, I'mn not worrying about being a nice guy, I'm securing the area and that means nothing but my persionnel breathes there after I've visited. I'm going total war, you play namby-pamby however much you want. All I have to deal with is my own men and that's it, endex!

The assumption seems to be that the Imp fleet will effortlessly leap from homeworld to homeworld without facing any resistance, whilst not having to care about guarding their supply base. Give me a fleet of 500 ISDs, and I can see a comfortable victory for the Imps, but instead, there's only that fleet of 141 ships, and not all of them are of ISD level.
My supply base would be placed 1 days travel outside the A-quad by Hyperdrive ( at 127ly aminute for a victory class thats Anywhere inside the Milky Way and once i have made a mapping of the route My Supply base would be the otherside of the galaxy (or 70+ years away from the A-quad forces, I'm not worried about them findig it in a hurry). Besides they won't even know the attacks are happening as I'm hitting them before word can get out there's a threat, and ships are being destroyed as they do thier little Starfleet missions on their own and vunerable.

You also call the Fed attack on the Borg cube 'sporadic'. In The Best of Both Worlds, 39 ships were involved, all of them destroyed. In First Contact, the battle starts in the Typhon Sector, and rages to Sector 001. if we assume that the sectors are side by side, that's still a long fought battle, that MUST have involved more than 39 ships, and lasted for as long as it took the Ent-E to return from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth- an unknown distance, but not unreasonable to assume that it be a few hours worth of travel. When you consider how quickly those 39 ships at Wolf 359 were destroyed, the Feds must have brought a lot more ships to play in First Contact. Either said ships were also a fair bit tougher, or the Borg absorbed a lot more firepower than before

Or it was able to travel most of the way unimpeded as Starfleet vessels had to join the fight from all over the place. What fighting we do see shows an uncoordinated assault by ships acting independantly. Now back to the real matter at hand, my crushing the A-quad. You want to discuss the Borg cube, then please feel free to start a new and relevant thread.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-07-06 03:47pm

Sothis wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote:
Sothis wrote:
Assuming of course, that the multi-gigaton weaponry spoken of in the ICS has been demonstrated? At the moment it stands in an official, yet unverified document.
You are aware of Lucasfilms Canon policy aren't you? IF it's an Official publication and it's not contradicted in the films then it is correct. Therefore the 200 GT yeild Turbolasers on the 20 year old transport ship are correct and htere's little doubt that a dedicated combat ship would have even more powerful weapons 20 years later.

Learn to live with it.

Show me this amazing firepower in a film and I'll believe it. Until then I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

Unfortunately for you, Lucasfilm is in charge of canon policy for SW not you. So, no matter how much you may need to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears, 200Gt is the correct figures and if you don't like it, well quite frankly, Tough.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-07-06 03:53pm

You cannot hit them that fast, it's almost impossible to pull off enough assaults to grieviously injure them.

So what if they are up to no good, what're they gonna do i've either taken their fleet or destroyed it at this point. I would start my propeganda machine immediately, not ALL citizens would be convinced but if Hitler can confince most of Europe that non-aryans were bad i think i can confinse some planets that the Empire is good.

Exactly...if the Klingons have minimal training with the ships the more likely they are to loose them in the battles they have with the Cardassians, Romulans. I only loose 20 or so Carrack cruisers and the Romulan, Klingon, and maybe even the Cardassian fleets are mostly destroyed.

Slower means you have more time too make up for mistakes and make secondary plans in case the plans fail. I use speed, agression, and surprise when i attack the UFP and Klingons when i attack the Romulans and Cardassians and other species of the Alpha quadrent i would use speed and agression.[/i]