School Admins Demand Access to Students' Cellphones

[Next of Kin]

...and there's no real reason for it not to be allowed even if it's not on my person, isn't turned on, and generally can't be any kind of disturbence, then why should I have to justify having it instead of others having to justify the act of disallowing it? It's a convenience, and it causes no problems, so long as I don't take it with me into class.

Sure there is a reason, if the school doesn't allow you to bring one into the classroom then you can't have. Like others have said, you could write the important phone numbers down in a binder or an organizer but all you've done is whine/bitch that you're too bloody inept/lazy to carry those things around with you and not lose them!

[Zero]

...and there's no real reason for it not to be allowed even if it's not on my person, isn't turned on, and generally can't be any kind of disturbence, then why should I have to justify having it instead of others having to justify the act of disallowing it? It's a convenience, and it causes no problems, so long as I don't take it with me into class.

Sure there is a reason, if the school doesn't allow you to bring one into the classroom then you can't have. Like others have said, you could write the important phone numbers down in a binder or an organizer but all you've done is whine/bitch that you're too bloody inept/lazy to carry those things around with you and not lose them!

I don't want to bring my phone into the classroom. Then it's just noisy and disruptive. I've been talking about the damned thing being off and in my locker during school hours. What's the valid reason for disallowing this?

[Next of Kin]

The reason for this is you can write your 3 contact numbers down on a sheet of paper or commit them to memory thus eliminating any need for a cell phone! If you have to call someone in that great of an emergency then what happened to using the good ole' pay phone?

[Zero]

The reason for this is you can write your 3 contact numbers down on a sheet of paper or commit them to memory thus eliminating any need for a cell phone! If you have to call someone in that great of an emergency then what happened to using the good ole' pay phone?

So I have to justify having a cell phone? There's no justification here provided for actually taking one away. Can you explain why a cell phone that's turned off and in a locker where it can't be any sort of disturbance ought to be taken away? It's not disruptive, it isn't a problem, and it's useful.

[Ender]

While I'm normally on the "shut up and take it like a man kid" bandwagon, this time I'm not. There is no legitimate reason for this. At all. The kids aren't going to have "Crack Dealer" in their contacts list, they are going to have "Jerry" or whatever the little reprobates name is. I can't figure out what their angle is. And until its out in the open, there is no reason at all for the school to do this, so I see no reason why we should let them.

What they *could* be doing is cupying the contacts lists, dialed numbers, etc., out of the phones of students they suspect of involvement with drugs and turning that info over to the police to pursue further.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that violates the prior knowledge laws and any evidence obtained would be inadmissable. Plus that's just a bad plan, what are they gonna do, call each number until the answer is "Mike's Drug Emporium, Mike isn't here. Today we have a special on Crystal Meth, buy one get one half off! How can I help you sir or ma'am?". At best this would be like when the police run a sketch and a hotline and have to sort through mountains of bullshit to try and find a single clue. At worst this is begging to be abused as a harrassment tactic - Susie is jealous Joey left her for Cindy so she hands over her cellphone so Joey gets in trouble with the police.


And if that is the case, and were remotely practical or legal, I'm even more against it. The school's job is to educate the students, not act as another arm of the law.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

I say, good for the administration in Framingham. I do carry a cell phone in school, but it's only on when I need to make a call, and that is never during school hours. I use it for when I'm:

A) Stuck at marching band after school
B) Working in the auditorium after school
C) Stuck at jazz band after school.
D) Some other extra-curric.

Otherwise, it'd be the pay-phone out front or trying to beg a call out in the office or from some other kid.

Personally, I look at my cell phone as simply that: a phone. I don't need to send text messages or browse the internet or any of that stupid crap from a phone. If you're going to text someone, why don't you just have a nice, fucking, interactive conversation with them where you can actually hear their voice with the main purpose of the device: a PHONE. There is nothing in that phone that I'd be afraid for my principal or my parents to see.

Sorry about the vent...

[Sharp-kun]

If you're going to text someone, why don't you just have a nice, fucking, interactive conversation with them where you can actually hear their voice with the main purpose of the device: a PHONE.

Because its not always feasible. Example: One of my friends is in a lecture and I need to let him know ASAP about some project thing. I can either wait until he comes out of that lecture and phone him (not always possible depending on where I am), or I can txt him and he can read it as soon as possible and he can reply when its feasible. When your timetable doesn't match someone elses and you need to contact them txt's are excellent.

I also disagree with the "main purpose of the device". Initially, yes, but now they do far more. How many people use their phone for txt'ing more than calling?

[Flagg]

When the fuck did schools start letting kids have cell phones on school grounds anyway? Christ, I remember when all beepers, walkmen, videogames, and even calculators (outside of math classes) were confiscated. Why the hell does a kid need a cell phone during school hours anyway? I can possibly see keeping a phone in your backpack or locker turned off beling allowed, but are kids actually getting and making calls during and in between classes? What the fuck?

Someone posted an article a while back about a guy who had a 1000$+ cell bill because his teen was texting messages in class all day.

Reason number 1368 why I'm never having kids.
I'm not fan of school administrations and the draconian actions alot of them take, but the simple solution to this "problem" is that if you don't want your phone searched, leave it at home.

[Aaron]

Reason number 1368 why I'm never having kids.
I'm not fan of school administrations and the draconian actions alot of them take, but the simple solution to this "problem" is that if you don't want your phone searched, leave it at home.

Well you could just not give them a cell phone. I have no intention of giving my kids one when they become teenagers.

[Jalinth]

I'm surprised that most people are confusing issues here. We have two - one is the right of a school to ban a cell phone and the other is the right to seize it, vacuum all of the information it contains and use that information as they see fit.

I have no problem with a school banning them (or restricting them in any manner they see fit). If you violate the rule, they seize it and return it in a day/week/month or simply destroy it outright if you've violate the rule too often. Exactly in the same manner as any other possession - be it a car, multitool, or metal ruler - on the school property. No issues here in my view.

The more problematic issue is the "right" to seize the phone and vacuum up the information it contains. This is I have a problem with on the same basis that I'd have a problem with a school seizing a diary and reading it. The fact you bring a possession to school shouldn't give the authorities the right to use it.

[Sharp-kun]

Out of interest, would people feel the same way if kids brought laptops (that they own) to school and the school siezed it and browsed everything on the hard drives?

Confiscation/banning of a device containing perhaps personal data, and searching through it are very different things.

[Flagg]

As long as they make the policy known in advance, and maybe require the parent/ guardian to sign some form of notification sheet, I don't really give a fuck. Schools have access to mountains of personal information already.

[Elmca]

Reason number 1368 why I'm never having kids.
I'm not fan of school administrations and the draconian actions alot of them take, but the simple solution to this "problem" is that if you don't want your phone searched, leave it at home.

Well you could just not give them a cell phone. I have no intention of giving my kids one when they become teenagers.

Giving a cell phone to a teenager doesn't have to be bad. My daughter is 16 now and driving. I really, really like the fact that she has a phone just in case she needs to get a hold of me from the road in some emergency.

She's got rules she needs to follow. It stays in her locker or my classroom during school hours (I teach at the school she attends). She isn't allowed to access the internet without asking. No calls after 9 pm. That sort of thing. Our bills are itemized (in minute detail, for some reason) so it's easy to see if she's cheating.

Her punishment is simple: I don't want to have to worry about her. That's why I got her the cell. So if she breaks the rules, she doesn't go anywhere. Then I don't have to worry, because I know she's right here, home with me.

By the way, I'm lucky enough to have an excellent kid, even if she thinks Star Wars is stupid. She's only broken the rules once and I think that was just to test me.

My school has a "No See It, No Hear It" policy. If a staff member sees or hears a cell phone (even if it's not in use) we can confiscate it and the student is suspended for the rest of the day and all the next. A parent needs to come in to claim the phone, so they're put out, too. A few people complained to the school board about it, but they backed us up for once.

We suspended something like 200 kids in one day right at the beginning of the year for cell phone and dress code violations. That's out of 2000 in my school.

[RedImperator]

The reason for this is you can write your 3 contact numbers down on a sheet of paper or commit them to memory thus eliminating any need for a cell phone! If you have to call someone in that great of an emergency then what happened to using the good ole' pay phone?

There are legitimate reasons a kid might need the cell phone immediately after school. We don't want the main office packed with kids trying to call for rides or their jobs or whatever.

The more problematic issue is the "right" to seize the phone and vacuum up the information it contains. This is I have a problem with on the same basis that I'd have a problem with a school seizing a diary and reading it. The fact you bring a possession to school shouldn't give the authorities the right to use it.

Actually, they do indeed have every legal right to do just that. Students have very little privacy protections if the school has reasonable cause for a search, and the standard for reasonable cause is far below that of a police officer dealing with a private citizen. They can go through purses, cars, notebooks, anything. I don't see how a cell phone's memory is any different.

Out of interest, would people feel the same way if kids brought laptops (that they own) to school and the school siezed it and browsed everything on the hard drives?

Confiscation/banning of a device containing perhaps personal data, and searching through it are very different things.

Legally, this is also acceptable, at least as far as I understand the law. Schools have tremendous powers because their mission is so important. However, with laptops, the school ought not to be allowed to go through it without pretty solid evidence the kid is doing something illegal. I can see fuckhead administrators going through laptops to, say, out a gay student, or expelling someone for writing a horror story about a mass murder at a high school.

Mind you, I don't think it's a good idea for schools to go through students' personal data without a damn good reason. It breeds a fuckload of resentment (with which the teachers have to deal), it's time consuming, and it's tempting for administrators to conduct random invasive searches and consider that a substitute for good intervention and disciplinary policies, but it's an option that should not be taken off the table because of some screwhead idea about the students' "rights". They have no more right to privacy in school than they do in their parents' house, and considering the shit that goes on now at it is, they don't deserve it.

[Darth Wong]

So I have to justify having a cell phone?

Yes, you do. If the school thinks it's disruptive, that's more than enough reason to take the damned thing away. Grow the fuck up, tard. School rules are designed to make learning more effective, not to suit your desires and conveniences.

[Sharp-kun]

However, with laptops, the school ought not to be allowed to go through it without pretty solid evidence the kid is doing something illegal. I can see fuckhead administrators going through laptops to, say, out a gay student, or expelling someone for writing a horror story about a mass murder at a high school.

See, I carry quite a lot of stuff on my phone (since it has a 1Gb memory card I use it for transferring data between places, carry Uni work/letters/creative work/photos on it etc). There's nothing incredibly secret on there, but its not something I'd feel comfortable with random people going through. To me having someone go through it would be the same as having my laptop searched. Obviously for most pupils this wouldn't be the case, but its where my main objection comes from. Phones these days aren't just phones, you can store quite a lot on them.

The school should just ban phones, its far easier and would ease disruption.

[RedImperator]

However, with laptops, the school ought not to be allowed to go through it without pretty solid evidence the kid is doing something illegal. I can see fuckhead administrators going through laptops to, say, out a gay student, or expelling someone for writing a horror story about a mass murder at a high school.

See, I carry quite a lot of stuff on my phone (since it has a 1Gb memory card I use it for transferring data between places, carry Uni work/letters/creative work/photos on it etc). There's nothing incredibly secret on there, but its not something I'd feel comfortable with random people going through. To me having someone go through it would be the same as having my laptop searched. Obviously for most pupils this wouldn't be the case, but its where my main objection comes from. Phones these days aren't just phones, you can store quite a lot on them.

The school should just ban phones, its far easier and would ease disruption.

As I said, I don't think they should be going through phones or computers on a whim, or because some vice principal doesn't like you. They shouldn't search your car or your locker just because, either. But that is an option that needs to remain on the table.

As for allowing them at all, I'm stunned it happens anywhere. The state of New Jersey outlawed them entirely (as well as pagers, which were more common then) on school grounds when I was in high school, and the City of Philadelphia district technically doesn't allow them either--if security catches you bringing one in, they confiscate it, and teachers have the right to take them, too.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

Snip

Not to argue, but just out of curiosity, would you object to the way I carry and use my cell at school?

[Next of Kin]

There are legitimate reasons a kid might need the cell phone immediately after school. We don't want the main office packed with kids trying to call for rides or their jobs or whatever.

I remember the office had a rule for letting students use the phone unless it was an emergency. Calling home for mum or dad to pick you up was not one of them. School secretaries pointed to the pay phone in the hall. I guess times have changed.

[Dominus Atheos]

There are legitimate reasons a kid might need the cell phone immediately after school. We don't want the main office packed with kids trying to call for rides or their jobs or whatever.

I remember the office had a rule for letting students use the phone unless it was an emergency. Calling home for mum or dad to pick you up was not one of them. School secretaries pointed to the pay phone in the hall. I guess times have changed.

They still have that rule.

Which is one of the reasons why kids need a cell phone.

[RedImperator]

There are legitimate reasons a kid might need the cell phone immediately after school. We don't want the main office packed with kids trying to call for rides or their jobs or whatever.

I remember the office had a rule for letting students use the phone unless it was an emergency. Calling home for mum or dad to pick you up was not one of them. School secretaries pointed to the pay phone in the hall. I guess times have changed.

The pay phones are broken and our school was not in the kind of neighborhood where you want to leave kids stranded without a ride.

[Zero]

So I have to justify having a cell phone?

Yes, you do. If the school thinks it's disruptive, that's more than enough reason to take the damned thing away. Grow the fuck up, tard. School rules are designed to make learning more effective, not to suit your desires and conveniences.

If it's a rule that it stays in a student's locker, and stays turned off the entire day, how is it possibly disruptive? I've already explained why it's personally useful, so what real reasons can you provide for me not having the damned thing? There's no effective difference, assuming kids follow the rules, between having them kept in the locker, off, and not having them at all, at least in terms of facilitating the learning process. There is a difference in terms of utilities that a given student will have access to. What the hell is with the stupid assumption that the school shouldn't have to justify its rules at all?

[Lagmonster]

If it's a rule that it stays in a student's locker, and stays turned off the entire day, how is it possibly disruptive?

The school can quite frankly decide what you can and cannot bring onto school grounds, and doesn't have to justify its decisions to you, the minor under its care, for the same reasons that parents don't have to justify similar decisions they make, like not buy little Johnny a new bike when he pleads for it no matter how easily they could afford it or how useful it would be for him to get around the neighbourhood.

It's known as the 'my house, my rules' clause. The best you can hope for is a lenient administration, but arguing with them is pointless regardless of how strong you feel your argument is. Your authority in decision-making amounts to precisely dick.

[Darth Wong]

If it's a rule that it stays in a student's locker, and stays turned off the entire day, how is it possibly disruptive? I've already explained why it's personally useful, so what real reasons can you provide for me not having the damned thing?

I don't give a flying fuck if it's "personally useful". If I think it's disruptive, then it's gone. You obviously don't understand how this works, you little snot-nosed brat.

[Zero]

If it's a rule that it stays in a student's locker, and stays turned off the entire day, how is it possibly disruptive?

The school can quite frankly decide what you can and cannot bring onto school grounds, and doesn't have to justify its decisions to you, the minor under its care, for the same reasons that parents don't have to justify similar decisions they make, like not buy little Johnny a new bike when he pleads for it no matter how easily they could afford it or how useful it would be for him to get around the neighbourhood.

It's known as the 'my house, my rules' clause. The best you can hope for is a lenient administration, but arguing with them is pointless regardless of how strong you feel your argument is. Your authority in decision-making amounts to precisely dick.

My house, my rules could pretty much be used to justify anything. It could be used to justify beating your son within an inch of his life, but parents are held accountable to their actions against their children, just like school administraters are accountable for their actions against the minors in their care, and governments are held accountable for laws they make. When it's a public utility such as a school, who's "house" is it, anyways? Why shouldn't the school be held accountable to those directly under its rule, anyways?

Your "you have no administrative authority argument" is bullshit too. It's true, but so what? It's pointless to talk about the current US president's actions too, since your authority over actions of the federal government amounts to jack shit, but that isn't an instant justification of everything those with that authority do.

Your only real complaint here is that I'm a minor, which is a blatent ad hominem, and won't be true in 4 days anyway.

Do you have any real point here, or is it more of the tired "I'm tired of minors actually wanting to be considered people!" bullshit?

I don't give a flying fuck if it's "personally useful". If I think it's disruptive, then it's gone. You obviously don't understand how this works, you little snot-nosed brat.

So if you think it's disruptive, that's an instant justification for it? If you can actually explain how a cell phone that's inside of a locker turned off can possibly be disruptive to the learning process, then I'll shut up.