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 Post subject: [Prodigal Son] Doesn't know what reaction time is PostPosted: 2005-11-21 07:14pm
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[Split from Borg cubes vs Death Star CBR-bashing thread in SWvST forum ... notice how SirNitram starts out by politely asking him to move this conversation to the Fantasy forum as per the rules when it's obvious he plans to start talking about Superman, and "Prodigal Son" never even acknowledges this, at which point SirNitram becomes hostile; later, of course, "Prodigal Son" will claim that he is not aware of breaking any rules or ever having been informed of breaking any rules]

Even tho I agree, I will point out that I have seen people on this board try to actually argue that anyone from the SW's universe could beat superman, I also saw topics where they didnt even think Gohan and Goku could beat palpatine and vader

my point? every board has their obnoxious ignorant posters who always have to be right..sadly it isnt unique to CBR alone *sigh*

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 07:19pm
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Ghost Rider wrote:
2. Creationist. It's good that they aren't just fanwhores over there, but truly numbskulls. Ah, the hope I have that they remain virgins forever.


That's not "hope", it's "certitude". ;)


Quite. Expecting beyond that, would take a miracle.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 09:20pm
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Even tho I agree, I will point out that I have seen people on this board try to actually argue that anyone from the SW's universe could beat superman,

Since Superman's power varies enormously and has numerous incarnations (a fact conceded by his fans), what's so unreasonable about this?
Quote:
I also saw topics where they didnt even think Gohan and Goku could beat palpatine and vader

Since I don't know anything about MoronBall Z I have no particular interest in that debate, but that is hardly comparable to the sort of place where creationists are allowed to get away with their delusions of intellectual adequacy.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 10:11pm
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Prodigal Son, if you have arguments to do with fantastical characters, you will post them in the appropriate forum. It's not asking much for people to be on topic for a forum. Respect that.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:17pm
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Darth Wong wrote:
Quote:
Even tho I agree, I will point out that I have seen people on this board try to actually argue that anyone from the SW's universe could beat superman,

Since Superman's power varies enormously and has numerous incarnations (a fact conceded by his fans), what's so unreasonable about this?



Well lets go with his current incarnation then? Strong enough to move the moon, fast enough to fly from jupiter to pluto in moments, invulnerable enough to survive the moon being completely obliterated(he was in the core) heat vision with a minimum range of 239,000 miles(or however far away the moon i s)

Even if we take his crappiest showings he's still shrugging off nukes, moving faster than lightning, liftin up nuclear subs with one hand, etc. He is out of their league

but alas, ill keep the fantasy debates out of here, my only point was that every board has their ignorant people..well, some more than others *cough* CBR*cough*



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:30pm
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
Even tho I agree, I will point out that I have seen people on this board try to actually argue that anyone from the SW's universe could beat superman,

Since Superman's power varies enormously and has numerous incarnations (a fact conceded by his fans), what's so unreasonable about this?



Well lets go with his current incarnation then? Strong enough to move the moon, fast enough to fly from jupiter to pluto in moments, invulnerable enough to survive the moon being completely obliterated(he was in the core) heat vision with a minimum range of 239,000 miles(or however far away the moon i s)

Even if we take his crappiest showings he's still shrugging off nukes, moving faster than lightning, liftin up nuclear subs with one hand, etc. He is out of their league
Like hell. I can recall an old one where Luthor had him stymied with a bunch of identical lead coffins, one of which had Lois in it, others had nukes. Open the wrong one, and both he and lois are dead. He's been shown to be far weaker then people like to make him out to be before.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:36pm
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Ender wrote:
]Like hell. I can recall an old one where Luthor had him stymied with a bunch of identical lead coffins, one of which had Lois in it, others had nukes. Open the wrong one, and both he and lois are dead. He's been shown to be far weaker then people like to make him out to be before.



an old one? thats pre crisis, current superman is different and had his origins and powerlevels rebooted slightly, anyways, most of the time hes currently portrayed as I described him



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:40pm
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Ender wrote:
]Like hell. I can recall an old one where Luthor had him stymied with a bunch of identical lead coffins, one of which had Lois in it, others had nukes. Open the wrong one, and both he and lois are dead. He's been shown to be far weaker then people like to make him out to be before.



an old one? thats pre crisis, current superman is different and had his origins and powerlevels rebooted slightly, anyways, most of the time hes currently portrayed as I described him


No he's not.

He's regularly knocked around by events that produce none of the visible effects of nuclear detonation-level energy. Besides, if you're gonna whine about SW, there's the Force, and the Force definately falls under his well-known weakness against Magic.

Of course, you're a comic fanwhore, so this simple, logical argument will bounce off your skull, and eventually you'll drag this out into a parody of a sensible argument because you refuse to beleive anything but what you've already decided.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:48pm
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SirNitram wrote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
Ender wrote:
]Like hell. I can recall an old one where Luthor had him stymied with a bunch of identical lead coffins, one of which had Lois in it, others had nukes. Open the wrong one, and both he and lois are dead. He's been shown to be far weaker then people like to make him out to be before.



an old one? thats pre crisis, current superman is different and had his origins and powerlevels rebooted slightly, anyways, most of the time hes currently portrayed as I described him


Quote:
He's regularly knocked around by events that produce none of the visible effects of nuclear detonation-level energy.


Knocked around, not hurt, hell hes survived being nuked while exposed to kryptonite

Quote:
Besides, if you're gonna whine about SW


Who's whining?

Quote:
there's the Force, and the Force definately falls under his well-known weakness against Magic.


Again you show your limited knowledge of superman, magic isnt his weakness, he just isnt invulnerable to it, meaning it effects him the same way it would normal people..its not like you or I would fare better than him against magic attacks, plus: its hard to use the force when your target is moving too fast for you to see


Quote:
Of course, you're a comic fanwhore


Is that all anyone does around here? calling people fanwhores, morons, etc.? and then try to use that and play it off like their arguments are stupid?

Quote:
so this simple, logical argument will bounce off your skull, and eventually you'll drag this out into a parody of a sensible argument because you refuse to beleive anything but what you've already decided.


Oh, its already a parody



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:50pm
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Quote:
Again you show your limited knowledge of superman, magic isnt his weakness, he just isnt invulnerable to it, meaning it effects him the same way it would normal people..its not like you or I would fare better than him against magic attacks, plus: its hard to use the force when your target is moving too fast for you to see


Jedi can also move well beyond the human ability to percieve when they need to. Just look at how quickly Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon escape the destroyer droids in TPM.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:52pm
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Noble Ire wrote:

Jedi can also move well beyond the human ability to percieve when they need to. Just look at how quickly Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon escape the destroyer droids in TPM.



But if we're gonna bring up low showings, then couldnt i respond to this by talking about how jedi were gunned down by clone troopers? and were not quick enough to react?

I know Jedi move fast, but not lightspeed fast



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:54pm
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Again you show your limited knowledge of superman, magic isnt his weakness, he just isnt invulnerable to it, meaning it effects him the same way it would normal people..its not like you or I would fare better than him against magic attacks, plus: its hard to use the force when your target is moving too fast for you to see


Moving too fast to see doesn't exempt him from precognition.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:56pm
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Surlethe wrote:

Moving too fast to see doesn't exempt him from precognition.


When have the jedi ever been able to perceive and react to something moving at nearly the speed of light? sources please



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:57pm
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Quote:
But if we're gonna bring up low showings, then couldnt i respond to this by talking about how jedi were gunned down by clone troopers? and were not quick enough to react?


:roll:
Suprise. They had fought alongside the clones for 3 years, and none of them had even had any reason to doubt them. That was the point of Order 66's impilmentation. I wonder how Supes would react if one of his justice leaguers walked up behind him randomly, started to chat, and then drove a sword tipped with kryptonite into his back without even blinking.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:58pm
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Surlethe wrote:

Moving too fast to see doesn't exempt him from precognition.


When have the jedi ever been able to perceive and react to something moving at nearly the speed of light? sources please
deflection of chiss charric shots in the HoT duology. Mazers move at C.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:58pm
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Prodigal Son wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
Ender wrote:
]Like hell. I can recall an old one where Luthor had him stymied with a bunch of identical lead coffins, one of which had Lois in it, others had nukes. Open the wrong one, and both he and lois are dead. He's been shown to be far weaker then people like to make him out to be before.



an old one? thats pre crisis, current superman is different and had his origins and powerlevels rebooted slightly, anyways, most of the time hes currently portrayed as I described him


He's regularly knocked around by events that produce none of the visible effects of nuclear detonation-level energy.


Knocked around, not hurt, hell hes survived being nuked while exposed to kryptonite


Having read Death Of Superman, I can tell you the killing blow sure as hell didn't blow out all the windows in a city, cause a fireball, or so on. And he sure as hell gets hurt from punches without producing shockwaves.

Quote:
Quote:
Besides, if you're gonna whine about SW


Who's whining?


You. When you came in here and started bitching that people can to conclusions you don't like. Yet, mysteriously, you aren't bringing up your complaints in the appropriate forum with those involved.

In short: Coward.

Quote:
Quote:
there's the Force, and the Force definately falls under his well-known weakness against Magic.


Again you show your limited knowledge of superman, magic isnt his weakness, he just isnt invulnerable to it, meaning it effects him the same way it would normal people..its not like you or I would fare better than him against magic attacks, plus: its hard to use the force when your target is moving too fast for you to see


Not really; Jedi move that fast as well. That's where the whole 'combat precognition' comes in; he'll know where Supes is before Supes decides to move. And 'HE'S NOT WEAK, HE JUST HAS NO INVUNERABILITY!' is just as bad. Force Lightning will still leave him a smoking weakling, Force Choke will still kill him.

Quote:
Quote:
Of course, you're a comic fanwhore


Is that all anyone does around here? calling people fanwhores, morons, etc.? and then try to use that and play it off like their arguments are stupid?


No, we assess that your arguments are stupid, show how, and then mock you for being a fanwhore because your arguments are stupid.

Feel free to continue your appeal to motive fallacy, however.

Quote:
Quote:
so this simple, logical argument will bounce off your skull, and eventually you'll drag this out into a parody of a sensible argument because you refuse to beleive anything but what you've already decided.


Oh, its already a parody


Glad you agree you couldn't hold a decent debate if you tried.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-21 11:59pm
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Quote:
When have the jedi ever been able to perceive and react to something moving at nearly the speed of light? sources please


They can perceive things before they happen in combat. Deflecting blaster bolts, flying as they do in starfighter combat, pod racing, fighting droids that can process information at near lightspeed, etc.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:01am
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Surlethe wrote:

Moving too fast to see doesn't exempt him from precognition.


When have the jedi ever been able to perceive and react to something moving at nearly the speed of light? sources please


Do I hear goalposts scraping? Since when has "too fast to see" been "nearly c"? Furthermore, you're strawmanning my position: they have precognition, which is not a perception/reaction arc.



"... alas, too many people think consistency the hobgoblin of little minds." -Publius

Daily Nugget of Wisdom from Goldman Sachs:
"I say 'keep the change' purely for my own convenience."

"A space shuttle on the back of an aircraft carrier in New York City is perhaps the most American thing you could have without the help of a deep fryer. I'm surprised anyone in the US opposes it." - Gandalf

WARNING: May become overexcited by mathematics or monetary policy.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:03am
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Noble Ire wrote:

Suprise. They had fought alongside the clones for 3 years, and none of them had even had any reason to doubt them. That was the point of Order 66's impilmentation. I wonder how Supes would react if one of his justice leaguers walked up behind him randomly, started to chat, and then drove a sword tipped with kryptonite into his back without even blinking.



But the thing is, theres people in the justice league (flash, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman) with superspeed, so it would be more difficult for him to prevent a sneak attack from them


However, the clones dont have powers, they dont move at the speed of light, neither do blasters, so, if they have the necessary reflexes to respond to superman, then they should of been able to recognize what going on, and protect themselves



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:05am
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Surlethe wrote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
Do I hear goalposts scraping? Since when has "too fast to see" been "nearly c"? Furthermore, you're strawmanning my position: they have precognition, which is not a perception/reaction arc.



And as we've seen, precognition isnt always full proof, why didnt the jedi see the clone troopers betrayal coming? why didnt palpatine see vaders betrayal coming? it seems precog seems to fail them when they need it most, and only seems to kick in during pod races and when blasters are being fired at them

Plus Precog can take you so far, the jedi arent lightspeed, so even if they know what is going to happen, what are they going to do about it?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:06am
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Surlethe wrote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
Again you show your limited knowledge of superman, magic isnt his weakness, he just isnt invulnerable to it, meaning it effects him the same way it would normal people..its not like you or I would fare better than him against magic attacks, plus: its hard to use the force when your target is moving too fast for you to see


Moving too fast to see doesn't exempt him from precognition.

No, it does not. Moving too fast for the Jedi to react, however, does effectively exempt him from precognition.

It's exactly this sort of argument that gives SD.Net a bad rep on CBR. The only incarnation of Superman that could be threatened by a Jedi is the original Golden Age, skin-can-resist-an-explosive-shell, jump-a-quarter-mile Superman from the very first Action Comics that couldn't even fly. The current Superman can take point-blank nuclear explosions (as in, holding the bomb when it goes off) without injury, so a lightsaber isn't going to even singe his hair. His magic "weakness" doesn't apply since (a) it just means that Superman has no special resistance to magical effects like being turned into a frog; a magical TK grip on his throat will still have to overcome his natural durability and (b) the Force isn't magic by the comic book definition anyway (midichlorians point to it being a pseudo-scientific psionic thingie, not magic). There is a lot of ridiculous bias, ad hominem arguments and outright idiocy on CBR right now, but seriously arguing that a Star Wars character (excepting exotic, all-powerful ones from Devilworlds comics) could hurt Superman just makes the situation worse.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:09am
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Surlethe wrote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
Do I hear goalposts scraping? Since when has "too fast to see" been "nearly c"? Furthermore, you're strawmanning my position: they have precognition, which is not a perception/reaction arc.



And as we've seen, precognition isnt always full proof, why didnt the jedi see the clone troopers betrayal coming? why didnt palpatine see vaders betrayal coming? it seems precog seems to fail them when they need it most, and only seems to kick in during pod races and when blasters are being fired at them


So, precog kicks in during combat, when ... they need it most. How convenient for my position.

Quote:
Plus Precog can take you so far, the jedi arent lightspeed, so even if they know what is going to happen, what are they going to do about it?


React to it before it happens. Is this so hard to grasp? They know about it before it happens; thus, they react before the event occurs.



"... alas, too many people think consistency the hobgoblin of little minds." -Publius

Daily Nugget of Wisdom from Goldman Sachs:
"I say 'keep the change' purely for my own convenience."

"A space shuttle on the back of an aircraft carrier in New York City is perhaps the most American thing you could have without the help of a deep fryer. I'm surprised anyone in the US opposes it." - Gandalf

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:11am
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Eframepilot wrote:
Surlethe wrote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
Again you show your limited knowledge of superman, magic isnt his weakness, he just isnt invulnerable to it, meaning it effects him the same way it would normal people..its not like you or I would fare better than him against magic attacks, plus: its hard to use the force when your target is moving too fast for you to see


Moving too fast to see doesn't exempt him from precognition.

No, it does not. Moving too fast for the Jedi to react, however, does effectively exempt him from precognition.


You're fucking illiterate, aren't you. If you're acting on precignition, you don't 'react'. You can't out-react someone who starts before you think of something.

Quote:
It's exactly this sort of argument that gives SD.Net a bad rep on CBR.


And it's arguments like yours which remind us why no one gives a shit about this 'rep': CBR is full of illiterate retards.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:14am
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Is that all you people are capable of? calling people who dont agree with your opinion morons? wow, and you dare to complain about CBR?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-11-22 12:16am
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Prodigal Son wrote:
Is that all you people are capable of? calling people who dont agree with your opinion morons? wow, and you dare to complain about CBR?


Is this all you're capable of? Ignoring arguments and discussions and whining about being called a name, when you already declared people here..

Quote:
obnoxious ignorant posters


..Because they didn't come to a conclusion you liked?

Coward AND Hypocrite. Any more names you'd like to show you're worthy of?



Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

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