Scimitar vs SW [SPOILERS FOR NEMESIS]

[Master of Ossus]

I completely agree. The PK weapon is very interesting, and in some situations more useful than the DS's main weapon, but the shields, armor, and other weapons are pathetic next to those of SW. Further, in SW, the cloaking device would be of little use if you can find the ship just by firing randomly. Haven't Trek writers ever heard of the "Big Sky Theory?" I guess they're counting on their Dirt Bikes to raise their earnings for Nemesis.

[Antediluvian]

And another ST ship bites the dust.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Regarding the plasma weapon, it appears that it is not a particularly new weapon, merely one that no one has wanted to use before for fear of others using it in turn, not to mention the fact that it would hardly be effective against properly protected military forces and would completely destroy a planetary ecosystem.

The tubby Klingon commander who joined in the scavenger hunt for DNA fragments from the first humanoids in the galaxy (the infamous seed codes that led to most planets producing genetically compatible humanoids) used such a device to destroy all life on a class M planet in what appeared to be less than thirty seconds. An entire ecosystem, including a protohumanoid species, was wiped off a planet.

In a similar vein, the Federation has easy access to flesh-eating plasma that destroys any organic material it comes in contact with. Apparently it is the standard plasma generated/used in the engine room of a Sovereign class starship. Picard and Data used the plasma to destroy a Borg queen and her drone attendants near the end of ST: First Contact. However, that plasma does not appear to trigger a chain reaction.

Since the Romulans are often referred to as using plasma torpedoes in TNG and DS9 references, it appears plausible that the Romulans could configure their own plasma torpedoes for antipersonnel work by loading them with the flesh-eating plasma of doom. Drop a pattern of torpedoes on an undefended enemy city or troop formation and everyone melts. Properly speaking, hydrocarbon plastics should also melt, but nothing is perfect. Larger, strategic-level versions would then just be a matter of overcoming the difficulties of scaling the weapon up.

For that matter, a Romulan vessel might also be constructed so that its primary disruptor can be configured to fire a flesh-eating plasma beam, or a specially designed quad-nacelle Federation runabout could be designed to vent flesh-eating plasma in a ground attack the way a cropduster releases pesticides.

All things considered, the nasty plasma weapon is not exactly a new piece of treknology.

[Sea Skimmer]

On Photon torpedoes. The script only mention them being fired, but the trailer clearly shows two Quantum's being fired by the Enterprise. The exact nature and number of weapons fired would likely be left to the FX team anyway.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Perfect cloak? yeah...

[His Divine Shadow]

The scmitar dies in a few volleys, a single HTL barrel, at minimum, still equals 370 Class VI torpedoes, if we use the overly generous 540MT figure.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Why not do what BAE Systems did for an anti-stealth SAM and simply fire on the area that doesn't show the characteristics of normal space.

[VF5SS]

Because the writers are too stupid to look up the specs for a current day ALARM anti-radiation missile

[Admiral Valdemar]

Because the writers are too stupid to look up the specs for a current day ALARM anti-radiation missile

"Hey look, if we use X-ray lasers instead of particle beam/laser hybrids, then the enemy won't follow the beam back to the origin of the shot."

"That's thinking. What have I told you about thinking?"

"Sorry, Mr. B."

"Darn tooting! Yeehaw, I love mind fucking worthless followers of this so called 'science fiction'."

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Because the writers are too stupid to look up the specs for a current day ALARM anti-radiation missile

"Hey look, if we use X-ray lasers instead of particle beam/laser hybrids, then the enemy won't follow the beam back to the origin of the shot."

"That's thinking. What have I told you about thinking?"

"Sorry, Mr. B."

"Darn tooting! Yeehaw, I love mind fucking worthless followers of this so called 'science fiction'."

maybe it's because they think all fans are STOPID.

[Master of Ossus]

Didn't they all watch ST6, when Kirk uses a torpedo that he modifies to home in on emissions to paint a cloaked ship for the Excelsior and the Enterprise-A to destroy? Seriously, it doesn't seem so hard, considering that they started work on the torpedo while they were already under fire.

The Empire, incidentally, would never need to rely on such measures because they would be easily able to destroy the ship in a single shot. All they would need to do is wait for the thing to reveal itself by firing, and then open fire with all guns.

[Master of Ossus]

Regarding the plasma weapon, it appears that it is not a particularly new weapon, merely one that no one has wanted to use before for fear of others using it in turn, not to mention the fact that it would hardly be effective against properly protected military forces and would completely destroy a planetary ecosystem.

The tubby Klingon commander who joined in the scavenger hunt for DNA fragments from the first humanoids in the galaxy (the infamous seed codes that led to most planets producing genetically compatible humanoids) used such a device to destroy all life on a class M planet in what appeared to be less than thirty seconds. An entire ecosystem, including a protohumanoid species, was wiped off a planet.

In a similar vein, the Federation has easy access to flesh-eating plasma that destroys any organic material it comes in contact with. Apparently it is the standard plasma generated/used in the engine room of a Sovereign class starship. Picard and Data used the plasma to destroy a Borg queen and her drone attendants near the end of ST: First Contact. However, that plasma does not appear to trigger a chain reaction.

Since the Romulans are often referred to as using plasma torpedoes in TNG and DS9 references, it appears plausible that the Romulans could configure their own plasma torpedoes for antipersonnel work by loading them with the flesh-eating plasma of doom. Drop a pattern of torpedoes on an undefended enemy city or troop formation and everyone melts. Properly speaking, hydrocarbon plastics should also melt, but nothing is perfect. Larger, strategic-level versions would then just be a matter of overcoming the difficulties of scaling the weapon up.

For that matter, a Romulan vessel might also be constructed so that its primary disruptor can be configured to fire a flesh-eating plasma beam, or a specially designed quad-nacelle Federation runabout could be designed to vent flesh-eating plasma in a ground attack the way a cropduster releases pesticides.

All things considered, the nasty plasma weapon is not exactly a new piece of treknology.

One wonders why they didn't use such a weapon when they were attacking the Great Link with the Obsidian Order. Perhaps it can't be done?

[TheDarkling]

Master of Ossus: Prehaps they werent sure if it would kill the Founders or not - we did see the Klingons destroy a world like he describes so it must be possible, at least for Klingons.

[Patrick Ogaard]

It is canon that the Klingons have the ability to generate some manner of ecosystem-destroying plasma chain reaction.

It is plausible but not canon that the Romulans (and everyone else that uses warp plasma systems similar to those in Federation warp drives) should be able to produce plasma weapons capable of doing the same on a limited scale. If that particular form of plasma weapon produced a chain reaction, Picard would have dissolved along with the Borg. Against a planet that one wants to destroy completely, however, that would be of limited utility. Simply blowing the planet's surface into dust and slag would be much more efficient if one wants to be sure of getting everything.

[Master of Ossus]

Master of Ossus: Prehaps they werent sure if it would kill the Founders or not - we did see the Klingons destroy a world like he describes so it must be possible, at least for Klingons.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I'm just saying it's interesting that they did not. Perhaps there was some limiting factor on the Warbird's range, carrying such weapons? Or maybe it was something even weirder. Maybe they just weren't willing to commit that secret into the hands of the Cardassians, for all we know, or maybe the Romulans were sacrificing ships to try and get the Cardassians to tip their hands in the AQ.

I don't doubt that ST has the ability to destroy planets in such a manner under ideal circumstances, I just look at that incident and figure that there might be complications associated with such an attack.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Since the normal containment systems of a warp core and other components are capable of withstanding and holding the flesh-eating plasma, any planetside site protected by a suitable shield or even an installation consisting of a hermetically sealed bunker system proof against such plasma will be immune to the weapon.

The weapon, whether the Klingon chain reaction version or everyone else's limited version, is of limited, very specific utility. Against protected installations and troops it would be completely ineffective. The best modern military analogy would be poison gas: lethal against unprotected civilian populations but largely ineffective against actual military forces and likely to prompt retaliation in kind, or worse.

[Master of Ossus]

But the Founder homeworld does not appear to be protected in any way! The Cardassians and the Romulans SHOULD have used such technology to attack that target, if they had it available. Maybe they just didn't have time, or maybe there are some other problems with using the weapon that we don't know about. Maybe they did not use it for one of the reasons I mentioned, or maybe it was something else, entirely.

[TheDarkling]

I still think the fact that the Founders aint you average lifeform was probably the reason it wasnt used, they may not of known if it would work or not - they werent sure slaging the crust would work so the Founders are pretty hardy.

[Master of Ossus]

I still think the fact that the Founders aint you average lifeform was probably the reason it wasnt used, they may not of known if it would work or not - they werent sure slaging the crust would work so the Founders are pretty hardy.

That's possible. The Founders certainly have some abilities that other races could only dream about.

[His Divine Shadow]

The reason it wasn't used was because no one even thought it could exist.

[TheDarkling]

The Klingon use of such a weapon predates TDiC does it not?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

The Klingon use of such a weapon predates TDiC does it not?

Yup.

[Patrick Ogaard]

But the Founder homeworld does not appear to be protected in any way! The Cardassians and the Romulans SHOULD have used such technology to attack that target, if they had it available. Maybe they just didn't have time, or maybe there are some other problems with using the weapon that we don't know about. Maybe they did not use it for one of the reasons I mentioned, or maybe it was something else, entirely.

Both the Cardassian and Romulan forces attacking the supposed homeworld of the Founders were supposed to be a mix of handpicked military crews and intelligence operatives, with both groups coming from authoritarian, militarized nations. It seems unlikely that either side would have believed that the Founders, the rulers of an even more authoritarian and militarized nation, would not take any appropriate precautions. Appropriate precautions would be secure bunkers and installations equipped with shields. Also, as the commanders of the fleet could not be confident of the comprehensiveness and accuracy of the information they had on the supposed homeworld, packing weapons useful only in very specific situations and ineffective against real military targets would be wasteful.

Point 1: It is not established that the Romulans have access to the chain reaction weapon that the Klingons have canon access to.

Point 2: It is established canon that at least certain forms of warp plasma have properties that dissolve all organic materials, but do not produce a self-sustaining chain reaction.

Point 3: Romulans use conventional warp coils fed by warp plasma, though initial power comes from a singularity rather than a matter/antimatter reaction, so it is reasonable to assume that the Romulans could produce a weapon employing flesh-eating plasma.

Point 4: Since Picard did not die in ST:First Contact, the warp plasma can not produce a self-sustaining chain reaction, and it is also established that conventional ST universe containment systems (including sealed doors) can stop the plasma. This means that the warp plasma attack is effectively not much more in terms of its effects than a particularly nasty poison gas: nasty against unprotected targets of limited size, but of very limited effectiveness on the battlefield.


Basically, I'm saying that the new superweapon is nothing more than the application of previously existing weapon concepts in the Star Trek universe, as opposed to some radical breakthrough that will make all other weapons obsolete.