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 Post subject: [Adama] The Colonial Viper rips the wires out of a tie fight PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:32pm
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So its quite obvious that a viper is way more maneuverable than a tie and that viper pilots are way better than their cannon fodder tie pilot counterparts, but how do the weapons and armour match up?

Tie fighters have the more advanced energy weapons but whats their stopping power? Could they get through a vipers frontal armour?

I'm not even going to bother asking which would win between a battlestar and an imperial SSD :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: The Colonial Viper rips the wires out of a tie fighter.. PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:40pm
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Adama wrote:
So its quite obvious that a viper is way more maneuverable than a tie and that viper pilots are way better than their cannon fodder tie pilot counterparts, but how do the weapons and armour match up?

Tie fighters have the more advanced energy weapons but whats their stopping power? Could they get through a vipers frontal armour?

TIE firepower is probably measured in the range of ~1kT/shot. That should be more than sufficient to destroy a Viper (of any mark). The TIE also has linear acceleration far in excess of the Viper which will enable to dictate the battle.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:40pm
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We've done a thread like this before, but to sum it up, even a Mk. VII Viper's weapons are puny compared to a Tie/ln. The basic model. Ties have weapons in the megaton range, IIRC. Vipers have railguns in the sub-kiloton range.
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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:41pm
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EDIT: Not megaton range, but way more than a Viper. The technology gap is too great.
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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:42pm
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Tie-Kiloton Energy Cannons
Viper-Railguns that are 5-10k/s
Tie-Several thousand Gs
Viper-20-30Gs

There, you have it

Keep this unreserched posting up and you will have to undergo corrective Nerve Stapling.

Zor



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:54pm
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As i originally stated, tie fighters have more advanced energy weapons, but surely the viper weapons can punch through the tie armour. If so, then I say vipers would win simply because tie fighters have crap maneuverability

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:55pm
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Adama wrote:
As i originally stated, tie fighters have more advanced energy weapons, but surely the viper weapons can punch through the tie armour. If so, then I say vipers would win simply because tie fighters have crap maneuverability


But as we have told you. TIE really don't have crap maneuvering. In fact they can manuever at orders of magnitude higher accelerations.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 01:57pm
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Ra wrote:
EDIT: Not megaton range, but way more than a Viper. The technology gap is too great.
- Ra


Avengers and Defenders do, as well as the bombers.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 02:51pm
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There is also evidence that TIEs even the old models have shields, in which case a Viper really gets clobbered.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:05pm
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Deathstalker wrote:
There is also evidence that TIEs even the old models have shields, in which case a Viper really gets clobbered.
I think he talking about standard TIEs (aka the non-shielded models)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:07pm
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Lord Revan wrote:
I think he talking about standard TIEs (aka the non-shielded models)


There is film evidence for them having shields. They're just presumably not good shields. Probably something analogous to ST nav deflectors.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:10pm
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Adama wrote:
As i originally stated, tie fighters have more advanced energy weapons, but surely the viper weapons can punch through the tie armour. If so, then I say vipers would win simply because tie fighters have crap maneuverability

But the Vipers will never be able to hit the TIE even if the Viper was more maneuverable. Even assuming that the TIE's electronic-warfare equipment won't blind the Viper, it will simply move at such speeds as to dictate combat.

For a more real-world analogy, the A6M Zero had excellent maneuverability and won the day early on until American pilots discovered that they could use superior speed (aka "boom and zoom") to dictate the battle. But those aircraft had performance well within the same order of magnitude; the TIE is has acceleration orders of magnitudes greater than the Viper.

Fighter combat is really about energy management and the TIE's energy reserves are immensely greater.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:12pm
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NecronLord wrote:
There is film evidence for them having shields. They're just presumably not good shields. Probably something analogous to ST nav deflectors.
we have debated about this how times before? either only sentries had shields or they're non combat shield, which in this case doesn't really make a difference as we probaly assume that Viper gun strong enough.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:16pm
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Lord Revan wrote:
we have debated about this how times before? either only sentries had shields or they're non combat shield, which in this case doesn't really make a difference as we probaly assume that Viper gun strong enough.


If I could smack you, I would. It has been debated many times before, and always written off as a maybe.

And yes. I'm sure the navigational shields of vessel designed to travel at thousand G accellerations would have difficulty with small objects travelling at a few kilometers per second.

Oh wait. No I'm not.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:20pm
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NecronLord wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:
we have debated about this how times before? either only sentries had shields or they're non combat shield, which in this case doesn't really make a difference as we probaly assume that Viper gun strong enough.


If I could smack you, I would. It has been debated many times before, and always written off as a maybe.

And yes. I'm sure the navigational shields of vessel designed to travel at thousand G accellerations would have difficulty with small objects travelling at a few kilometers per second.

Oh wait. No I'm not.
OK I didn't know that Vipers guns were that bad, anyway the Vipers probaly won't have a chance against even TIE/ln



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:46pm
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Vietnam war. US fighters VS soviet fighters. US fighters had greater acceleration and top speeds, but soviet fighters had greater maneuverability. Don't tell me that the US pilots had a field day out there. They knew that up close and personal the migs were a real threat. Having said that, the US pilots won most battles, but thats mostly down to superior firepower, and of course training.

Tie fighters look slow and cumbersome, and please dont spout some technobable from some book my way because im only commenting on what I have seen from movie clips.

I am willing to concede the point that under certain circumstances a tie would be superior though. But up close and personal I still think the viper has it.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 03:57pm
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Denying Cannatical Data because "You don't like it" is an intolerable state of Idiocy that proves your mental Instability and under the Order of the Imperial Terran Ministry of Health you shall undergo corrective Nerve. Have a nice day.

Zor



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:00pm
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Zor, please STFU about nerve stapling. It was funny the first time. It's now just annoying.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:01pm
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Still Adama is being an Idiot.

Zor



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:05pm
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Really Zor, you don't need to point that out to us. Adama put some proof on the table and people will believe you a bit better.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:08pm
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Denying Cannatical Data because "You don't like it" is an intolerable state of Idiocy that proves your mental Instability and under the Order of the Imperial Terran Ministry of Health you shall undergo corrective Nerve.


ZOR what? :shock:

What is "corrective nerve"?

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:09pm
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Crazedwraith wrote:
Adama wrote:
As i originally stated, tie fighters have more advanced energy weapons, but surely the viper weapons can punch through the tie armour. If so, then I say vipers would win simply because tie fighters have crap maneuverability


But as we have told you. TIE really don't have crap maneuvering. In fact they can manuever at orders of magnitude higher accelerations.


Whatever happened to TIE fighters being described as having the best speed and maneuverability available for SW fighters? This whole 'crap maneuverability' squawking just really throws me off. Are X-wings and Y-wings poorly shielded now?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:10pm
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Read his post on the "Terran Imperium". Funny shit.
Back on topic:
Tie Fighters are not "slow and cumbersome"! I mean, the Tie being purused by the Falcon was travelling at about the same speed, right? They closed with DS1 at a very rapid pace. Judging by how fast DS1 "grew" in field of view, that has to be very fast, many many meters per second. I don't have the resources to do all these fancy "screencap analyses", but I know what I saw. The Tie and Falcon were hauling ass, faster than any Viper has been seen to go. A more experienced board member is more than welcome to go into detail on this speed. Point: Ties are not slow.
Adama, please don't be this way. The Viper is inferior. Accept it.
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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:11pm
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Adama wrote:
Quote:
Denying Cannatical Data because "You don't like it" is an intolerable state of Idiocy that proves your mental Instability and under the Order of the Imperial Terran Ministry of Health you shall undergo corrective Nerve.


ZOR what? :shock:

What is "corrective nerve"?


Corrective nerve stapling, something from his fictional universe which makes you docile, or something similar.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2005-04-23 04:12pm
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Adama put some proof on the table and people will believe you a bit better


I understand what your saying Gunhead. My proof is simply from what I have seen. A viper can rotate 180 deg on its axis and backup on its previous path in seconds. When has anyone seen a tie do that in the movies? All I have seen is that ties can reach great speeds and that they have to travel through an arc if they wish to turn. Very much like modern fighters do.

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