something I noticed on ST armor

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The Original Nex
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Post by The Original Nex » 2005-01-18 06:48pm

However, the precense of the Tantor brothers in Force Commander and other assorted examples as well as information from the Imperial Sourcebook makes it clear that some Stormtroopers are indeed recruits.
Is it determined whether or not these troopers are low-ranking officers or merely NCO/Troopers? If not, it's perfectly plausible to assume that the Imperial Marine Corps Officers are trained recruits, and the NCOs and standard troops would be made up almost exclusively of clones.

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Post by Sonnenburg » 2005-01-18 07:41pm

Stofsk wrote:Have there ever been any female stormtroopers? I'm genuinely curious.
Sure, there's that one where I'm the interrogator, Lance Goodethrust, and she's the stormtrooper prisoner with information vital to the Rebel cause that I must extract by any means necessary. Although I don't know if that video qualifies as evidence or not... and in either case, the armor still would need to be adjusted to fit her properly.

But seriously, I don't know of any. Actually, do we know of non-humans who have been stormtroopers?
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Post by The Original Nex » 2005-01-18 08:04pm

Sonnenburg wrote: But seriously, I don't know of any. Actually, do we know of non-humans who have been stormtroopers?
Assofar, only in the Empire Of the Hand have any non-human Stormtroopers been sighted. Given that the majority of Stormtroopers were human clones plus the Stormtrooper Officer recruits, it's possible, however unlikely, that a non-human managed to come up with an impressive enough record to be admitted into the Imperial Marine Corps.

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Post by Illuminatus Primus » 2005-01-18 10:14pm

Given that despite the fact the Stormtroopers appear to be mostly clones and somehow no one knows about it and the Senate still believes that it is banned, yes, I believe the public face of the Stormtroopers in the officer corps are probably only recruits.
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Post by Coyote » 2005-01-18 10:16pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Coyote wrote:It is further explained that as the Empire grew, those who were chosen for clone stock material were increasingly chosen based on political connections-- say, a Moff's nephew, or something like that-- and not necessarily combat prowess. Therefore, some Stormies were lousy shots.
Hidalgo said that? What a moron. The Stormies don't have any worse accuracy than RL troops. This bit makes no fucking sense.

That's our Pablo at work, after all!

Another thing, in general...

I wonder what it was about the Spaarti cloning technique that made the clones "feel odd" in the Force, as Luke got the heebee-jeebees from them in Zahn's book, but apparantly there was no such apprehension from the Kamino series.
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Post by McC » 2005-01-18 10:32pm

Coyote wrote:I wonder what it was about the Spaarti cloning technique that made the clones "feel odd" in the Force, as Luke got the heebee-jeebees from them in Zahn's book, but apparantly there was no such apprehension from the Kamino series.
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The Kaminoan clones feel odd too, as a result of their rapid-aging. They feel as though they're children rather than adults, and this sensation actually blinds a Jedi Padawn to a clones' presence until he's upon her.

This might be the same reason the Spaarti clones feel weird. They're grown even faster, so they'll have an even greater discontinuity between mental age and physical age.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus » 2005-01-18 10:38pm

Coyote wrote:I wonder what it was about the Spaarti cloning technique that made the clones "feel odd" in the Force, as Luke got the heebee-jeebees from them in Zahn's book, but apparantly there was no such apprehension from the Kamino series.
Contrary to popular belief, it has zip to do with the fact they are clones. Spaarti clones are given personality, memory, and skill sets by flash memory imprinting. The bizarre reverberations are the result of encountering a ship where the thousands of crew have only three or four minds.
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Post by Vympel » 2005-01-18 10:42pm

I hope the EU writers weren't fucking dumb enough to think that clones rapid aging to maturity under the Kamino method remained *constant* throughout their lives- i.e. they die of old age quickly rather than reaching a mature age and then levelling off into normal human aging processes? Because that's just dumb. Really dumb.
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Post by Admiral Drason » 2005-01-18 11:47pm

Vympel wrote:I hope the EU writers weren't fucking dumb enough to think that clones rapid aging to maturity under the Kamino method remained *constant* throughout their lives- i.e. they die of old age quickly rather than reaching a mature age and then levelling off into normal human aging processes? Because that's just dumb. Really dumb.
Thats the impression I got from the book. And yes It bugged me too.
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Post by vakundok » 2005-01-19 12:33am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Coyote wrote:It is further explained that as the Empire grew, those who were chosen for clone stock material were increasingly chosen based on political connections-- say, a Moff's nephew, or something like that-- and not necessarily combat prowess. Therefore, some Stormies were lousy shots.
Hidalgo said that? What a moron. The Stormies don't have any worse accuracy than RL troops. This bit makes no fucking sense.
Emm, isn't it exactly the same to what GL said in an interview? I think tthe interview can be found in ep 3 set diary for hyperspace members.

I am wondering: Did the citizens of the (old) Republic know (shortly after AOTC) that clones were fighting for them?

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Post by Vympel » 2005-01-19 12:48am

I don't think Hidalgo said that, Lucas did, but it was clearly a joke.
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Post by vakundok » 2005-01-19 01:21am

Vympel wrote:I don't think Hidalgo said that, Lucas did, but it was clearly a joke.
Yes, he was sarcastic. Something similar to "I can imagine how it would work".

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Post by Vympel » 2005-01-19 02:21am

Admiral Drason wrote: Thats the impression I got from the book. And yes It bugged me too.
Just an impression? In retrospect, there's an Empire comic (Dark Horse) that sees Luke crash-land on a planet Anakin Skywalker fought on in the Clone Wars- he encounters a Clonetrooper, in the early type armour (not the Episode III set). That would make that Clonetrooper at least 60 years old instead of around 40. I don't think he is though (all I saw was a preview of the comic on the Dark Horse website)- if we had a drawing of a Temura Morrison then that would put paid to the idea fairly easily.

On the other hand, there are Temura Morrison Clones in Episode III, but then, we have no idea how old they're supposed to be (i.e. the actor they got to play a younger version of him- we don't know how old he's supposed to be either).
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Post by The Original Nex » 2005-01-19 04:11pm

Vympel wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote: Thats the impression I got from the book. And yes It bugged me too.
Just an impression? In retrospect, there's an Empire comic (Dark Horse) that sees Luke crash-land on a planet Anakin Skywalker fought on in the Clone Wars- he encounters a Clonetrooper, in the early type armour (not the Episode III set). That would make that Clonetrooper at least 60 years old instead of around 40. I don't think he is though (all I saw was a preview of the comic on the Dark Horse website)- if we had a drawing of a Temura Morrison then that would put paid to the idea fairly easily.

On the other hand, there are Temura Morrison Clones in Episode III, but then, we have no idea how old they're supposed to be (i.e. the actor they got to play a younger version of him- we don't know how old he's supposed to be either).
It seemes the ARC Trooper Alpha-02 (who went crazy after being opened up accidentally to Jango's memories) served as a Mandalorian Protector well into the Imperial era, so he seems to have aged normally after he reached maturity.

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Post by Elheru Aran » 2005-01-19 04:17pm

The Original Nex wrote: It seemes the ARC Trooper Alpha-02 (who went crazy after being opened up accidentally to Jango's memories) served as a Mandalorian Protector well into the Imperial era, so he seems to have aged normally after he reached maturity.
Well, there are considerable advances in medical technology... is it so improbable to think that perhaps this guy was lucky enough to have access to that medical tech, and thus remained active well into his biological old age? Just a thought...
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Post by The Original Nex » 2005-01-19 04:22pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
The Original Nex wrote: It seemes the ARC Trooper Alpha-02 (who went crazy after being opened up accidentally to Jango's memories) served as a Mandalorian Protector well into the Imperial era, so he seems to have aged normally after he reached maturity.
Well, there are considerable advances in medical technology... is it so improbable to think that perhaps this guy was lucky enough to have access to that medical tech, and thus remained active well into his biological old age? Just a thought...
It's more likely than assuming that Kaminoan Clone Troopers only have a lifespan of 40 years or so.

I personally don't think that the growth accelleration is so much a part of the genetic tampering, rather it has to do with some sort of treatment the clones undergo in their "childhood." Once they leave for service in the military, they no longer recieve the treatment, and thus, age normally.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2005-01-19 04:54pm

Vympel wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote: Thats the impression I got from the book. And yes It bugged me too.
Just an impression? In retrospect, there's an Empire comic (Dark Horse) that sees Luke crash-land on a planet Anakin Skywalker fought on in the Clone Wars- he encounters a Clonetrooper, in the early type armour (not the Episode III set). That would make that Clonetrooper at least 60 years old instead of around 40. I don't think he is though (all I saw was a preview of the comic on the Dark Horse website)- if we had a drawing of a Temura Morrison then that would put paid to the idea fairly easily.
We know Star Wars humans can live to be at least 130 years old and still be viable from Truce at Bakura (and probably much older - the novel certainly suggests so.), so having a clone in his 60s or more may not be unreasonable assuming access to similar technology, even assuming the process can't be reversed.

I might point out that while it seems militarily st upid to have your clones aging so rapidly, there is also a very good reason for it. For the Kaminoans (from an economic standpoint) it guarantees some measure of continued business sincec their shorteened lifespans mean they will have to be "retired" and replaced on a fairly frequent basis (5-10 years, I'd guess.)

Also, if Palpatine eventually intends on turning clonetroopers into stormtroopers, the clones have to gradually become less and less "loyal" to the Jedi than they currently are - which means phasing out the current generation of clonetroopers as quickly as one can manage. The necessity of replacements can give him the opportunity to start making those changes he needs. By the time of the ANH era, Clone-Wars era troopers would be rare if not nonexistent and thus replaced by troopers personally loyal to Palpatine.

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Post by Publius » 2005-01-20 12:21am

The Original Nex wrote:Is it determined whether or not these troopers are low-ranking officers or merely NCO/Troopers? If not, it's perfectly plausible to assume that the Imperial Marine Corps Officers are trained recruits, and the NCOs and standard troops would be made up almost exclusively of clones.
Corporal Brenn Tantor received a field commission to lieutenant in the opening sequence of Force Commander, in contrast to Officer Cadet (later Second Lieutenant) Kyle Katarn in Soldier for the Empire. There has also been seen Gunnery Sergeant Wrenga "Jix" Jixton in "Shadow Stalker," who has given no indication that he was a clone. There is also indication from the Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition that extraordinary recruits should be forwarded to the Imperial Marines, although regular recruitment for the Marines is done independent of the Sector Recruiting Offices.
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Post by vakundok » 2005-01-20 01:19am

Connor MacLeod wrote:I might point out that while it seems militarily st upid to have your clones aging so rapidly, there is also a very good reason for it. For the Kaminoans (from an economic standpoint) it guarantees some measure of continued business sincec their shorteened lifespans mean they will have to be "retired" and replaced on a fairly frequent basis (5-10 years, I'd guess.)
I disagree. It would result that you order from Kamino only the very first batch, that can serve you until normal clones, ordered at the same time or a few years later, depending on the active lifespan of rapid aging clones, (possibly purchased from elsewhere) will be ready.
It is economically good only if armies do not need longer than that active lifespan. "Buy our clones! They will be ready for the fight only half the time required by other producers, and after the war you will not need to feed them as long." :D

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Post by Kurgan » 2005-01-20 06:20pm

Stofsk wrote:Have there ever been any female stormtroopers? I'm genuinely curious.
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Post by Darwin » 2005-01-20 08:09pm

That is pretty damn fine.

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Post by wolveraptor » 2005-01-20 09:14pm

if the clone's accelerated aging was genetic, it'd be impossible to reverse the process, wouldn't it?

i've always thought that the empire's army was mostly recruits. i mean, all of luke's friends were joining the military. han solo was a former trooper. a lot of recruits exist. besides, they don't mention clones at all in the movies.

on the other hand, all the older board-members seem to accept it, and they've thought about this stuff longer than i have, so i guess...
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Post by Kurgan » 2005-01-20 11:28pm

But who says that Luke and his friends and Han Solo were going to be/were Stormtroopers?

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Post by The Original Nex » 2005-01-21 06:29pm

unbeataBULL wrote:
i've always thought that the empire's army was mostly recruits. i mean, all of luke's friends were joining the military. han solo was a former trooper. a lot of recruits exist. besides, they don't mention clones at all in the movies.

on the other hand, all the older board-members seem to accept it, and they've thought about this stuff longer than i have, so i guess...
The Imperial Army is wholly made up of recruits. The Imperial Marines (AKA Stormtroopers) are almost exclusively clones, although the officers seem to be exclusively recruits.

Biggs and Han (as well as Luke) were to join the Imperial Pilots Corps. I belive (though I may be mistaken) the majority of basic "airmen" and NCO's in the Pilots Corps were clones as well, and the officers would be recruits.

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Post by andrewgpaul » 2005-01-22 03:26pm

The Original Nex wrote:
The Imperial Army is wholly made up of recruits. The Imperial Marines (AKA Stormtroopers) are almost exclusively clones, although the officers seem to be exclusively recruits.
Don't the navy have their own troopers? Or are 'Naval troopers' different from marines? I realise that this is from WEG's Imperial Sourcebook, but other things have gone from that into higher-level canon before.
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