He proveded to make broad attacks on Fanfiction in general. I generally ignored his comments until he said this:
Lee Goldburg wrote:The difference is when the character legally falls into the public domain...like Sherlock Holmes or Dracula or Robin Hood. Then it's fair game. Until then, fanfic is theft and an intellectual, creative,and moral violation.
Emphasis mine. This got me to thinking...WTF does Morality have to do with it?
I'd like some views from the more logically minded people here to counterbalance and provide a second viewpoint (or in this case, a third).
Me: Fanfiction is a gray area, no doubts. It is by definition illegal, but acutally battling it is like enforcing sodomy laws--impractical. Besides, I find it enjoyable and it is what got me into writing in the first place (I aspire/study to be a screenwriter).
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else! Browncoat Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
Really, I hate fanfiction too pretty much. There's so much rank shit out there from fanboys/girls who haven't a clue how to write that finding the odd nugget of gold is stressful and not worth it.
But moral violation? I'm inclined to not give a shit given the company isn't being bent over and anally violated by fanfics given it's probably raking it in thanks to the product being popular enough to get fanfics in the first place.
Fanfic is analogous to teenage garage bands who get together and try to play their favorite groups' songs, and form their own unique sound inspired by their influences.
Majin Gojira wrote:Me: Fanfiction is a gray area, no doubts. It is by definition illegal, but acutally battling it is like enforcing sodomy laws--impractical. Besides, I find it enjoyable and it is what got me into writing in the first place (I aspire/study to be a screenwriter).
Marking fanfiction as theft or plagiarism by default is a gross oversimplification of a larger issue. Different authors have different policies toward fanfiction. in fact, some authors actively encourage it (e.g., JK Rowling), while others simply demand a royalty in the event of any profits are made from such work (e.g., ST and SW). Most, however, simply don't care much about the issue at all. It is certainly within the rights of Mr. Goldburg to demand the cessation of fanfiction that uses any work for which he holds copyright. However, demanding it of fanfiction in general is something he has no business doing.
I'd see it as free advertising more than anything else.
Writer's Guild 'Ghost in the Machine'/Decepticon 'Devastator'/BOTM 'Space Ape'/Justice League 'The Tick'
"The best part of 'believe' is the lie."
It's always the quiet ones.
Mark S wrote:I'd see it as free advertising more than anything else.
Exactly. Is fanfiction going to cut into this guy's sales? If it is, then judging by the amount of bad fanfiction out there, he must be a really awful writer.
The only fanfiction-related thing that I see cutting down on this guy's sales is the fallout from trying to suppress it and alienating his fans.
Mark S wrote:I'd see it as free advertising more than anything else.
Well, it is free advertising. But it is not necessarily good advertising. If one's first experience with a particular show is fanfiction, then the impression they're going to get will be directly related to the ratio of gold to pure shit that the fanfic writer is putting out.
He's a fucking imbecile. Fanfiction falls under fair use rules of copyright laws. It's similar to what lets people like weird al get away with parodying other artists work. So long as they're not blatantly stealing the entire story and claiming it as their own, and attempting to make a profit from it, it can't be considered wrong in any fashion. I don't see this fucktard's reasoning as to why it's 'immoral' as rational in any fashion whatsoever.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Luzifer's right hand wrote:I respect the opinion of authors like George RR Martin which do not enjoy it when people without talent fuck their creations up.
there's a huge leap between simply not wanting your work butchered and calling it immoral to write fanfiction.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
I don't get the negativity that these people are feeling. Here's an idea; why don't you be fucking flattered. Someone cares about your work enough to want to take the time and effort to emulated it and fantasize about being a part of it. Who cares if they all suck ass, most of them are probably kids for Christ's sake. That shouldn't be hurting you in any way. The fact that your work inspired them to want to write themselves should make you pretty fucking happy.
Writer's Guild 'Ghost in the Machine'/Decepticon 'Devastator'/BOTM 'Space Ape'/Justice League 'The Tick'
"The best part of 'believe' is the lie."
It's always the quiet ones.
Marion Zimmer Bradley had a book killed (one of her Drakover series IIRC) because some psycho fan sued her saying she stole the idea from his fan fiction. The potential legal costs of going ahead made the publisher kill the book rather than publishing it. It's the psycho few, not the sane majority, that causes the problem. [/i]
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
Mark S wrote:I don't get the negativity that these people are feeling. Here's an idea; why don't you be fucking flattered. Someone cares about your work enough to want to take the time and effort to emulated it and fantasize about being a part of it. Who cares if they all suck ass, most of them are probably kids for Christ's sake. That shouldn't be hurting you in any way. The fact that your work inspired them to want to write themselves should make you pretty fucking happy.
Indeed. The writters should appreciate fanfictions the way game companies appreciate the hard work done by modding communities.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
Fanfiction is a lot like myth-building in times before the fiction industry became so stratified and, indeed, turned into an industry. Fanfiction writers are a bit like old-fashioned bards in a way, taking stories which exist in the collective conscious of a group, so to speak, and embellishing upon them. I think that's a natural tendency of humans when it comes to mythic, or fictional, tales, and not something that can be halted--particularly not with the advent of the internet. It is something that simply means that in the future it is likely that hack writers who produce lots of low quality novels might be pushed aside in favour of fanfiction authors who write stories based on the tales of epic and truly excellent novelists. So if I was a hack writer I'd be worried, too.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
of course, I remember in a old Ranma ML i was member, a dude, fanfiction writer,nicknamed Blade who argued that the real writers of Ranma are them (the fans) and Rumiko Takahashi, the author, the fanfiction writers, since she did not respected and know the nature of they own characters well as the fans did. I can see someone calling this dude immoral and a lot of extra stuff.
But of course fanfiction effects have the tendencies to be much more positive than negative. I remember even a text of Jorge Luis Borges (a very good writer from argentina) where in a dialogue with another writer he puts the dialogue that he would only be happy when he lost his story to the readers. After all all the extra stories did not hurt a little Sherlock Holmes, why would hurt anyone and often the fanfiction writers respect more the characters than the companies that explore them...
Muffin is food. Food is good. I am a Muffin. I am good.
Darth_Zod wrote:He's a fucking imbecile. Fanfiction falls under fair use rules of copyright laws. It's similar to what lets people like weird al get away with parodying other artists work. So long as they're not blatantly stealing the entire story and claiming it as their own, and attempting to make a profit from it, it can't be considered wrong in any fashion. I don't see this fucktard's reasoning as to why it's 'immoral' as rational in any fashion whatsoever.
As far as I know, Wierd Al always makes sure that he has the permission of the original artists before parodying their work, although I don't think that he has to, legally.
"Stop! No one can survive these deadly rays!"
"These deadly rays will be your death!"
- Thor and Akton, Starcrash
"Before man reaches the moon your mail will be delivered within hours from New York to California, to England, to India or to Australia by guided missiles.... We stand on the threshold of rocket mail."
- Arthur Summerfield, US Postmaster General 1953 - 1961
Fan fiction is a legitimate fair use application. It deprives the original artist of nothing and if anything, is a way for fans to express their admiration of the work to other fans. Granted, most of it is pure garbage, but people take their free time to do this. They don't get anything material in return. The satisfaction is that you've realized something you had in your head.
This Goldburg guy is just an asshole.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
Majin Gojira wrote:Me: Fanfiction is a gray area, no doubts. It is by definition illegal, but acutally battling it is like enforcing sodomy laws--impractical. Besides, I find it enjoyable and it is what got me into writing in the first place (I aspire/study to be a screenwriter).
Marking fanfiction as theft or plagiarism by default is a gross oversimplification of a larger issue. Different authors have different policies toward fanfiction. in fact, some authors actively encourage it (e.g., JK Rowling), while others simply demand a royalty in the event of any profits are made from such work (e.g., ST and SW). Most, however, simply don't care much about the issue at all. It is certainly within the rights of Mr. Goldburg to demand the cessation of fanfiction that uses any work for which he holds copyright. However, demanding it of fanfiction in general is something he has no business doing.
It's not within his rights at all. Fair use is just as applicable to his work as everyone else's. This is not an issue of what Goldburg wants; it's an issue of what is legally allowable, and fanfiction is perfectly within fair use guidelines.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
