The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

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fnord
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by fnord »

Was more thinking about the effects of Sod's Law (or whim of Eternal_Freedom - functionally equivalent in this story).
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Natzo »

Did the upgrade the UNSC Trafalgar on Reach? It's a Punic-Class supercarrier and pretty much the precursor of the Infinity. It even had Super MACs. Upgraded it would be a beast.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I certainly planned for her to have some of the upgrades, yes. I didn't realise she/they mounted S-MACs, I thought it was just three "standard" MAC's, like the Valiant class. If she does mount a S-MAC then...damn.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Natzo »

Well, that's according to the wiki and this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b79buIEB58o
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I would not trust that guy's videos as source material...especially since he says in the first thirty seconds that it's mostly based on how the ship appears in a Sins of the Solar Empire mod.

As for the wiki, I went through Halo Nation and it wouldn't even tell me if the Punics had MAC's at all, never mind S-MACs. And the S-MAC page makes no mention of the big carriers mounting such a weapon.

And frankly, if you put an S-MAC on a capital ship, then it'd be a battleship, not a supercarrier. So yeah, absent canon sources to the contrary, the two Punic class ships (Trafalgar and Musashi) have large air wings and three standard MACs.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by fnord »

Given the apparent doubt, resolve it in the direction of "what makes a better story"?
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

For now, the two Punics will just have three standard MAC's. I'll save ship-mounted S-MACs for Book III or that one, joint UNSC/Terran/Tau'ri design someone mentioend a few pages ago.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Natzo »

That's fair, though two things.

The source was the Spartan Games page but it was closed and deleted.

Image

https://web.archive.org/web/20151117025 ... ig-hitters
https://www.halopedia.org/Punic-class_supercarrier

And well, as for:
And frankly, if you put an S-MAC on a capital ship, then it'd be a battleship, not a supercarrier.
The Infinity has S-MACs and is a supercarrier :p.

The difference between the two is pretty much just technology, like the lack of shields and poor FTL. Both carry frigates and have high yield macs as well as being the largest capital ships of the UNSC.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Yeah, I'm definitely not using stuff from Spartan games - that's designed for game balance and (I would say) isn't canon - at least there is nothing in the definitive canon that I know of. Like the turret-mounted "mini-MACs" that article mentioned - something we don't see anywhere else as far as I know - not even on the Infinity.

As for the Infinity, pretty sure that while she had improved MAC's (and 4 of them to boot) they weren't the ODP-scale Super-MACs. And also IIRC the Infinity was conceived of and designed as basically an ark-ship as a last bastion of humanity if Earth fell rather than as a pure combat vessel from the ground up.

Finally, an S-MAC clearly needs a lot of power to fire, since the ODP's need massive groundside generators. Which makes sense; kinetic energy imparted to a normal MAC round is 60 kilotons, for an S-MAC it's 50 gigatons, or about six orders of magnitude higher. That just ain't feasible for a shipboard generator pre-Terran upgrades. In my version, the Punics achieved their edge over the Covenant by having three standard MAC's, a massive air group and very heavy armour.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Natzo »

Sure, obviously is just choice, just pointing option. I think there that Super MAC is quite a broad term. I would guess that since the Punic is much larger and top of the line compared to other ships, its MAC is called Super since its bigger and more powerful, but not on the same range of the spectrum as a stationary dedicated platform since those are dedicated cannons with no engines, missiles, etc. I guess its a Lower-End Super MAC and a High-end Super MAC. But its just discussion.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I appreciate the info, but I don't want to make the Punics too powerful - after all, if they were that good the UNSC would have more than two of them left and probably wouldn't be as fucked as they are at this point in the timeline.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Natzo »

That's fair though then again the main issue with the Valiants, Punics and other heavy ships is that they would also be the first to be targeted by the Covenant and they would lose both the crew that could man them properly as well as all the material. Its easier to replace destroyers and frigates than a Supercarrier. Those take years to make so it's no surprise they don't have many.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

You're quite correct, that's why the UNSC fleet list I posted a while back showed they had only 19 cruisers and just eight heavy carriers, but 250 destroyers and 400 frigates.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Yup, it ain't dead. Though this chapter fought me every single damn step. And RL has been an utter bitch lately.

Operation: Marksman
Warstar
Jupiter Fleet Operations Centre, Unnamed System Oort Cloud


Admiral Jellicoe looked around the command centre of his newest flagship, appreciating the subtle differences that set her apart from her older sister. The external differences and weapon loadouts were the largest and most obvious, but the internal systems were distinct enough for a trained eye to see.

The console layout for instance was slightly different, a more optimal configuration for a fleet commander to better control his forces. The inclusion of Asgard computer technology from the initial design instead of as a refit was a more noticeable change, holo-displays had become almost tangible rather than slightly translucent. The ship’s internal corridors were laid out slightly differently as well, making it easier for crew to get to and from their stations as needed.

Probably the most noticeable change however was that Fleet Ops, CIC and a handful of other critical compartments in the ship’s bow section were more effectively isolated, surrounded by a solid armour box and equipped with independent life support, artificial gravity and inertial damper systems to better prevent shock damage affecting the command crew. The lessons of prior ships, not just the Nemesis but also the Eridanus had been learned well and incorporated into the new ship.

Now the new ship lay in wait alongside the Nemesis and the Phoenix for the prototype NOVA bomb to detonate amidst the Covenant assault fleet. There was some hope that the bomb would destroy the whole fleet but Jellicoe doubted that. The Covenant, and especially their Elites were too clever, too skilled in the arts of warfare to fall for such a trap with all their fleet.

The fact that the Covenant were competent enemies was almost…refreshing for the Colonial Admiral. All his prior campaigns had been against opponents who were inferior in both technology and battle experience, but superior in numbers and ruthlessness; the Cylons, the Wraith, the Lucian Alliance, the few remaining Goa’uld. But the Covenant? This was a truly worthy adversary.

A rather loud part of his brain shouted down that thought. They were the enemy, they needed to be destroyed by any and all necessary means. Before he could continue the internal debate one of his battle staff called out.

“Admiral, Janus reports the Covenant fleet has arrived in a dispersed formation, he is beginning his gambit.”

Jellicoe sighed. “Very well Commander. Bring the group to full readiness and charge all superlasers.”

The Commander nodded and moved off. Behind him, Jellicoe heard his Chief of Staff, Commodore Alan Mace chuckle slightly.

“You still don’t like AI’s do you Admiral?”

“Well Alan, when you face off against a race of genocidal AI’s twice in fifty years it tends to put a damper on your enthusiasm for the blasted things” Jellicoe all but snarled.

Mace cocked his head slightly. “Didn’t you read that report from your Colonel Raines? The Insurrection was caused by Ba’al, not by the programming becoming self-aware.”

Jellicoe nodded. “Yeah I read that. But I’ve spent so much of my adult life either fearing or hating them, training to fight them or actually fighting them, mourning what they took from me…old wounds, Alan. Besides, someone else gave them sentience and their orders but they still dropped those bombs. I know the UNSC AI’s are different, so is Dying Light for that matter, but I can’t help but wonder when the first mushroom cloud is going to appear whenever I speak to the cursed things.”

Alan grimaced. “I can understand that Sir...” Before the Commodore could finish, Commander Harrison spoke up again.

“Janus reports the Covenant fleet is not taking the bait. One small element is closing in on his position but all other ships are moving away at full thrust.”

Jellicoe swore under his breath. “Has he identified the command ship?”

“Eighty-five percent probability Sir.”

“That’ll have to do. Tell him to detonate and prepare for FTL jump to firing position.”
The two senior officers turned to look at the sensor displays as the icon showing the soon-to-be vaporised Legendary Valour sat at the centre of an expanding half-sphere of red “hostile” icons. A small group, centred on a single Assault Carrier was closing in on the fireship, but everything else was running at full thrust, including their Supercarrier targets.

The single “Friendly” icon blinked three times and then the display went white. It took nearly ten seconds for the distortion to fade, leaving a reduced but still overwhelming Covenant Fleet. Jellicoe and Mace examined the icons, taking note of the numbers and planning targets.

“Hmm…nine Supercarriers remaining, this one here is the probable command ship. Ok, we’ll take the flagship, Nemesis and Phoenix will double up on….oh, that Supercarrier there for the first shot. Second salvo, if we have time, will be targets Five and Seven. Commander Harrison!”

The officer in question appeared promptly. “Yes Admiral?”

“Probable command ship is our first target, the other two ships will take Target Three. Targets Five and Seven are secondary targets. All ships will quick-charge the superlasers with all available power. Jump in twenty seconds.” Jellicoe gave his orders in the same calm, decisive tone he had perfected over the last few years.

“Aye Sir.”

Jellicoe and Mace turned back to the holo-display as the timers began counting down. There was a surprising sense of calm in Fleet Ops, despite the absurdity of just three ships being about to engage a force that outnumbered them by three hundred to one. But the Terran Commonwealth Navy, as well as the Colonial Fleet had become used to such absurd odds since they first met years before. Now it was just part of the job.

The timers reached zero and space-time ripped open as the jump-drives shrank the massive metal constructs down into a minute matter stream and fired them into a tiny artificial wormhole to their destination. Less than a second passed for the outside universe and then suddenly the three ships were there in prime firing positions and correctly aligned to their first targets, the superlaser emitters already glowing blue as the firing sequence began.

From the bows of the ships came six electric-blue beams, full power shots from the deadly weapons that slashed across the intervening space and slammed with crushing force against the two designated targets, a pair of Covenant Supercarriers that had only barely escaped the NOVA bomb’s cataclysmic detonation.

The Jupiter was gunning for the Covenant flagship, and a combination of chance and paranoia were the only things that prevented the strike being a decapitating blow at the Covenant command structure. Janus had only been able to give an eighty-five percent probability as to which supercarrier was the flagship, and the details of the final data-packet were slightly distorted in the wake of the detonation. That was the chance.

The paranoia was shown by Admiral Wattinree having his incoming and outgoing comm signals being redirected via at least one other ship if multiple Supercarriers were present in one battle, the intent being to prevent the enemy from doing exactly what Janus had done, determine where the commander was based on signal traffic. Multiple Supercarriers had never been faced by the UNSC before so this practice was a complete unknown to both the Alliance and the UNSC.

As such it was not the Long Night of Solace that erupted into fire and debris under the brutal power of the Warstar’s main battery. Instead it was the Blight of the Profane, flagship of the decidedly unlucky Supreme Commander Arden Sortakee. As far as Jellicoe knew however the Covenant commander was indeed atomised, along with a second Supercarrier kill, the Unending Reverence.

Wattinree blinked at the sight of two of the most powerful ships in existence vanishing in just a handful of seconds. While much of his mind was screaming in primal fear at that fact, the rational part was instead shouting orders. He could only hope those human weapons took long enough to recharge that he could salvage the situation.

“All ships will make immediate slipspace transition on course for the target world and drop back to realspace at these coordinates” he briefly consulted a chart and rattled off a string of numbers and letters that marked a position one million kilometres away from Reach “further orders will follow in slipspace. Move, now!”

The subordinates obeyed and the orders went out. Fortunately for Wattinree and unfortunately for Jellicoe, all of his surviving ships had been charging their slipspace drives for an escape jump prior to that massive detonation. It would take just sixty seconds for all the ships to make a slipspace jump.

That was ninety seconds less than the time needed for the massive superlasers to recharge. Even with the improved quick-charge systems installed on all three ships and devoting every available joule of energy to the task, the huge capacitors simply couldn’t charge fast enough for even one more volley at the enemy. This was a fact that Jellicoe quickly realised in his command centre as a sensor report came in.

“Admiral, we’re detecting major power build-ups in every ship; they’re preparing for a slipspace jump, estimate time to transition as one minute.”

“Frak” said Jellicoe eloquently. “The bastards will get away before we can fire again. Any indication of course?” He asked that last question already knowing the likely answer. The only options for the Covenant were to advance or retreat; the Colonial officer knew what he’d do in the same circumstances.

The sensor chief consulted his readings before answering. “Most probable destination is Reach sir, eta forty-one minutes from transition.”

Jellicoe once again cursed loudly. The bulk of the enemy fleet was completely undamaged with only drained or weakened shields, a problem that would be easily overcome during their flight. With seven Supercarriers still operational the enemy still decisively outgunned them. This attack had delivered a powerful punch, but it wasn’t a knockout blow. They had no option but to pull back to a defensive position at Reach.

Even though it was clear to everyone aboard the human ships that the Covenant would escape, the main weapons were still charging; the crews working on the probably vain hope that maybe a handful of ships wouldn’t make their escape in time and they would still have targets. There was also the consideration that discharging the capacitors without firing the weapon was a difficult and lengthy process.

The timers on both sides continued their implacable countdowns. The Covenant acted first, massive slipspace portals opening in front of the huge alien vessels before the ships themselves vanished from sight. The only exceptions were a lonely pair of battlecruisers that in addition to drained shields had suffered severe strain on their power distribution systems, preventing them from charging the slipspace drives quickly enough. The vengeful human ships promptly obliterated them as soon as the guns were charged. It was a wasteful use of energy, employing full-power shots from three ships that collectively could overwhelm Supercarriers against a pair of much lighter vessels. Once the flares of the weapon discharges faded there was nothing left at all of the hapless Covenant ships, not even dust and debris.

The three human ships soon disappeared in the distinctive flashes of an FTL jump. They would arrive back at Reach long before the Covenant arrived. Despite their best efforts and the use of the most devastating weapon short of the rigged ZPM bomb over Atlantis years before, most of the Covenant fleet would soon appear near Reach and it would come down to a slugging match in orbit. One that Jellicoe was uncertain they could win, even if the Covenant didn’t do something smart.

Even as he glared at the holo-displays and his command staff wisely gave him a wide berth, Jellicoe knew that the Covenant were fighting far smarter than they had been before. They were adapting to his tactics and methods, far faster and more effectively than the Wraith or the Lucian Alliance had done. This would be the largest battle he had ever fought in by a wide margin; more than a thousand ships on both sides would soon be flinging themselves at each other in a desperate and deadly ballet.

Jellicoe could only hope he was up to the challenge and that at least some of his ships survived to return home with the tale of what happened.

========

And there we go, proof that the Covenant are indeed fighting smart. Plus I don't want to kill off Admiral Wattinree just yet, I need a rallying figure for the anti-Prophet side in the upcoming Great Schsim. Mwahahaha. Plus having a competent but honorable enemy commander is a new feature for my writing.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by DKeith2011 »

Getting Good!!!
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by fnord »

Bloodied by real life, but unbowed?
Fleet Ops, CIC and a handful of other critical compartments in the ship’s bow section were more effectively isolated, surrounded by a solid armour box and equipped with independent life support, artificial gravity and inertial damper systems to better prevent shock damage affecting the command crew.
Lesson learned and applied. Can the superlaser-equipped ships be similarly retrofitted?

What has Wattinree got up his sleeve(?) for round two?

Also, how did Mace reach flag rank? You've presented him as a staff, not a line officer, and line officer + independent command seems to be necessary to get considered for such.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

The armouring and isolation of internal command spaces isn't really something that can be retrofitted easily. Besides, Eridanus already has it, as does Phoenix. And it's only rarely a problem for Nemesis.

As for what Wattinree has in store....heh, wait and see.

As for Mace, well he was Chief of Staff in book one, but that was three years prior and during which there was a substantial fleet expansion. I figure he took a year or so out of his Chief of Staff post and ran one of the new cruisers for a while before screening for flag rank. I've never said he was exclusively a staff officer, just that he wasn't considered a line officer during the Battle of Terra and thus couldn't assume command instead of Jellicoe. And Mace was being evac'd with Lethbridge-Stewart so assuming command would be pointless anyway.

An alternative might be that Lethbridge-Stewart and Adama senior decided his position warranted Flag rank even without line experience. In that case, while he has the rank of Commodore, command would still devolve on one of the other Commodores present instead of him.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Sky Captain »

Why Keyship and Everest weren't present, they could have wiped out or mission killed another two Supercarriers? If you think about this superlaser attack it probably destroyed more tonnage than NOVA because it took out only one Supercarrier and lots of smaller ships.

Good thing is humans have one more chance of doing similar superlaser attack when Covenant fleet exits slipspace at Reach. Warstars will arrive nearly instantly so they have some time to calculate most probable exit point and make another shot.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Keys hip and Everest weren't present because they don't have jump drives for prompt escape and their guns don't have the range to attack from a safe distance.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by fnord »

Have there been any other times when multiple supercarrier-level ships have gone down in the same fight?

I think it was three this time - one flattened by NOVA, and the other two by Giant Frikkin' Lasers.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Yeah, three Supercarrier kills in this fight, which brings the total kills for those beasts to six out of 25 active.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Sky Captain »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2018-12-01 05:39pm Keys hip and Everest weren't present because they don't have jump drives for prompt escape and their guns don't have the range to attack from a safe distance.
So Terran warships are tactically superior to even their Forerunner counterparts? Better effective range, better FTL
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Nah, it's just the superlasers. And the Keyship is something I envisage as mroe of a strategic asset as opposed to a true warship.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by fnord »

Um... when would a capital ship (warstar, battlestar, superheavy cruiser, etc) not be both a battlewagon and a strategic asset?
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Re: The 13th Tribe Book II: A Symphony of War

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Yeah I phrased that badly. I meant the Keyship is more useful as a strategic tool - being able to open slips pace portals for entire fleets over at least galaxy - wide distances for one. The massive stealth field for another.

In my interpretation, it's called a Keysship for a reason - while it has powerful weapons compared to the Terra and UNSC or Covent, it is NOT intended to function as a pure warship.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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