He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-03 10:43am

TAS isn't canon?

Probably, they were too fragile to be used for EVA/hostile environment work, and went back to using spacesuits, or knowing Treknology, spacesuits with forcefield backup.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Tribble » 2018-05-03 10:48am

U.P. Cinnabar wrote:
2018-05-03 10:43am
TAS isn't canon?

Probably, they were too fragile to be used for EVA/hostile environment work, and went back to using spacesuits, or knowing Treknology, spacesuits with forcefield backup.
Yes I know TAS isn't canon, I'm just surprised they didn't use the idea as it could have been a practical solution which also happens to look sciene-fictioney.

Federation space suits don't seem to have force fields as they continue to leak after being punctured.
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-03 12:07pm

True. Forgot about STFC.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
—29th Scroll, 6th Verse of Ape Law

"The Constitution's a piece of paper. A kick in the head is a jolt."
—Stanley "Ray" Kowalski
"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."
---NRA motto

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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2018-05-03 12:14pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-05-03 04:15am
Burak Gazan wrote:
2018-05-02 08:32pm
Funny how The Expanse manages with way less money, and the story never suffers. In fact, it ENHANCES AND REQUIRES IT in some bits
But, hey, Tweknology....
And I'm sure 20 years in special effects advancement making special effects cheaper has nothing to do with it, nosiree Bob.
Sure it did; but they can do it cheaper in the bigshot studios now too, but that doesn't help them break from drowning in bullshit and lens flare replacing writing
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2018-05-03 09:38pm

Tribble wrote:
2018-05-03 12:24am
IIRC in the TNG tech manual the bridge was on top of the hull and detachable so that it could be easily swapped out during an upgrade.

Also the main bridge of the E-D wasn't supposed to be used during battle situations as it was intended that they saucer-separate first, but that didn't happen very often (outside universe this was largely due to the timing of scenes and budget contraints).
Correct on both counts. That modularity is mentioned in-story as a reason why the early production Galaxy-class starships were chosen for the Project Galaxy upgrade, rather than the newer Dominion War-era Galaxy-class starships.

In universe, I think the reason they didn't separate the saucer in battle very often is because the saucer that's full of civilians doesn't have a warp drive and thus cannot flee while the drive section is engaged in battle, and the ship actually has more power for weapons/shields when it's not split in half.
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2018-06-10 08:27pm

With the senior officers seated around the conference table, Riker took his seat at the head and glanced at his PADD.

"All right, let's begin with Commander Stolansky. Commander?"

"Yes, sir." Stolansky had removed his helmet and placed it on the table before him. "Concerning ship's operations, I only noted a few minor issues, which I forwarded to you earlier. Being as this is a Federation starship and not an Ascension starship, I do not wish to interfere in shipboard custom or culture too much. However, one change I would like to make is to the duty schedule."

Riker raised an eyebrow, but said nothing, waiting for Stolansky to continue.

"I'm given to understand that most Starfleet vessels operate in three eight hour shifts, which is also standard aboard Ascension vessels. However, given that the Galaxy will be operating a fair distance away from Federation starbases and support for the duration of its mission, I would like to change over to four six hour shifts. I believe this would be more efficient, since it would reduce fatigue for the crew while performing their duties, thereby resulting in better performance and higher morale."

"There is something to be said for that," commented the Doctor. "It would reduce fatigue and increase mental acuity and efficiency. Several Starfleet vessels operate on a four shift schedule. I would like to note that a certain... flexibility in duty schedules would likely be beneficial as well. On Voyager, we had issues with crew fatigue and morale until we loosened regulations a little and allowed crewmen to swap shifts. So long as it was approved by a senior officer beforehand, of course."

Stolansky considered that for a moment, then nodded.

"I would be willing to experiment with that, once we're under way and are certain the crew is performing as needed. Until then, I'm going to insist that everyone report for duty when scheduled, no exceptions, unless there is a valid medical excuse. In the meantime, I've drawn up a rotating schedule; the crew will report for duty at the same time five days a week, but twice a week they'll report for a different duty schedule. This will, hopefully, prevent monotony from setting in, and provide more flexibility in their schedules. For instance, a helmsman who is always assigned to the night shift may not be able to interact with someone who is always assigned to the day shift during off hours; this way, at least twice a week, their schedule is different and they can do things at different times of day. It also prevents crewmen from being dissatisfied with always getting what they perceive as being an undesirable duty schedule."

Deanna nodded appreciatively, adding, "This seems very well thought out. I haven't had time to look at it, but I did see your request to sit down with me and work out who would be best for a particular shift; I would be glad to do that."

"Thank you, counselor. Captain?"

Riker warred with himself internally for a moment, both wanting to give Stolansky a fair chance as first officer and wanting to do things his way, then said, "I prefer the three shift duty schedule. However, your idea does have merit. I'd be willing to give it a shot, but I'm concerned that there would be issues with people adjusting to the new schedule."

"Hence why I would like to implement it immediately, to get people used to it before we depart for stars unknown. I think the crew will adjust more easily than you expect; this essentially gives everyone more free time, and once they get used to working their shift at a particular time of day, they won't have any real issues."

".... Alright, go ahead and implement it then. We'll try it out for... two weeks, and if the crew is still having trouble adjusting, we'll go back to the three shift schedule."

"Very well. Next, I'd like to implement some changes to our security culture aboard ship."

"Security culture?"

"Security is very lax on Federation starships. I would like all bridge officers to wear a sidearm while on duty, and place a security officer at the turbolift leading to the bridge and two officers at the entry to main engineering."

"Don't you think that's a little overkill?"

"No, sir. Standard Ascension protocol is that all on-duty personnel are armed, and all vital areas of the ship are constantly guarded by shipboard marines. The bridge, engineering, shuttle bay, missile magazines, and so on. While reviewing files from a number of different starships, I noted a disturbing tendency for intruders to board Starfleet vessels. This would be a proactive security measure. There's-"

"I don't believe that's necessary at this time, commander. I'll take it under consideration, however. Was there anything else?"

"... no, sir. I believe I'll hand things over to the department heads now."

"Good. Engineering? How are we looking?"

The Doctor leaned over and whispered in Stolansky's ear, "You still owe me a physical. Tonight?"

Stolansky nodded dismissively, scrolling through his PADD and trying to pay attention to the rest of the meeting. He had a lot of work to do, and little patience for distractions.

-----------------------------

Stolansky sat on the biobed impatiently as the Doctor ran a tricorder over him.

"Well, commander, your medical records were quite thorough. Everything seems to be lining up rather nicely. Now, about this particle beam incident? I understand there was brain damage?"

"Was, doctor. Ascension medicine is quite excellent, though I will admit you've made some advances we missed. I suppose that's what happens when you focus on infrastructure rather than R&D."

"Hmm. Your doctors did an excellent job; I can't find any evidence of a particle beam passing through your head at all. Other than the nerve damage to your face, it seems they managed to repair everything."

"It was only a glancing hit," Stolansky said wryly. "This is why I give particle accelerators and the junior officers operating them a wide berth now."

"Can I ask why the facial damage wasn't repaired? If you can heal a brain and skull damaged by heat and radiation, surely you can repair facial nerves," the Doctor said as he waved something like a squared off tuning fork in a circle around Stolansky's eye.

"Resources. That's why we've focused on developing infrastructure and acquiring resources. We don't have the large population or pool of materials the Federation does, and some things are quite scarce. We've learned to make do with a more austere lifestyle, and anything that isn't absolutely necessary isn't bothered with. In this case, the damage to my face is purely cosmetic; it doesn't affect my vision, hearing, or speech, so why bother fixing it? The doctor has more important things to devote his time to, and the medical supplies that could be used to fix a face that sags ever so slightly on one side could be used to cure a child with partial paralysis. We tend not to prioritize the little things."

"Hmm. Well, lucky for you that you were assigned as a liaison officer then. Here in Starfleet, we're thorough enough to handle the little things too."

Stolansky gave the Doctor an aside glance and asked, "How long would it take to fix the damage? I'm quite busy-"

"I already fixed it. Right now I'm just getting a more fine-tuned reading of your hypothalamus."

Taken aback, Stolansky stood and donned his helmet again.

"Thank you, doctor. That wasn't necessary, but it is appreciated. Unless there's anything else, I need to return to duty. There's a lot to do before we can get underway."

"I'm all done here, commander. Run along, I'll have my department report ready for you by 0600 tomorrow."

Stolansky stepped out of sickbay, glanced at the time readout on his HUD, and grimaced. He hated doctor's visits, and while that one had taken only ten minutes, he really was quite busy. He had to keep a handle on the operations of a massive starship and learn a new way of doing things in the process.

Stepping into the turbolift, he ordered it to take him to astrometrics. The science division was the one department behind schedule, and he firmly intended to correct that.

Pausing for a moment, he ran one hand down the face of his helmet unconsciously as he tried to feel any difference in his face. He felt none. The slight sag to the one side of his face was really only perceptible if you were standing closely, and as he'd said, it didn't impede him any. He doubted anyone else would notice the difference. It was such a little thing. But still. To just fix something like that so casually both made him envy the Federation and resent it. The Ascension could have done it, but wouldn't; why waste time and energy on something that was unnecessary and basically amounted to pure vanity? One day the Ascension would be as prosperous and powerful; they were nearly there.

The door opened and he strode into the corridor, ready to ream out a certain lieutenant who was grossly behind on getting astrometrics up and running, his face already forgotten.
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by B5B7 » 2018-06-10 11:18pm

The dayshift/nightshift thing in Star Trek, as many people have previously mentioned elsewhere is silly. Whenever an important encounter occurs in Star Trek it almost invariably occurs during the dayshift. Another thing that I have noticed is that the person sitting in the command chair is often doing nothing. This would get monotonous and is also inefficient.
Stolansky gave the Doctor an aside glance and asked, "How long would it take to fix the damage? I'm quite busy-"

"I already fixed it. Right now I'm just getting a more fine-tuned reading of your hypothalamus."
The Doctor should ask permission first. Imagine if someone has a Heidelberg scar and the Doctor simply removes it without checking with the patient first!
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2018-06-10 11:28pm

Trek, despite Gino being a sailor, was hilariously fucking retarded when it came to watch bills. As an actual merchant sailor, we did 4 on, 8 off. But over time +/- 2 before and after possible. Yeah it can be tiring. But 8 fucking hours in watch? Jesus. You'd be half asleep staring at the lights and dials. Also, can't help but wonder, if Willy is asshurt over the 4 shift thing; some other Captain told him to do that, remember? :twisted:
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-06-11 06:40am

B5B7 wrote:
2018-06-10 11:18pm
The dayshift/nightshift thing in Star Trek, as many people have previously mentioned elsewhere is silly. Whenever an important encounter occurs in Star Trek it almost invariably occurs during the dayshift. Another thing that I have noticed is that the person sitting in the command chair is often doing nothing. This would get monotonous and is also inefficient.
Stolansky gave the Doctor an aside glance and asked, "How long would it take to fix the damage? I'm quite busy-"

"I already fixed it. Right now I'm just getting a more fine-tuned reading of your hypothalamus."
The Doctor should ask permission first. Imagine if someone has a Heidelberg scar and the Doctor simply removes it without checking with the patient first!
It's in character for the Doctor. Also, night shifts on Voyager got pretty interesting sometimes.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
—29th Scroll, 6th Verse of Ape Law

"The Constitution's a piece of paper. A kick in the head is a jolt."
—Stanley "Ray" Kowalski
"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."
---NRA motto

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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-06-11 06:42am

Burak Gazan wrote:
2018-06-10 11:28pm
Trek, despite Gino being a sailor, was hilariously fucking retarded when it came to watch bills. As an actual merchant sailor, we did 4 on, 8 off. But over time +/- 2 before and after possible. Yeah it can be tiring. But 8 fucking hours in watch? Jesus. You'd be half asleep staring at the lights and dials. Also, can't help but wonder, if Willy is asshurt over the 4 shift thing; some other Captain told him to do that, remember? :twisted:
If you meant Roddenberry, he was in the Army Air Forces, not the Navy. Flew B-17s if memory serves.

Jellicoe, in "Chain Of Command," told Riker to set four sixes, rather than three eights. Four six hour shifts are the norm in the British Royal Navy, and, I believe, in the USN, as well.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
—29th Scroll, 6th Verse of Ape Law

"The Constitution's a piece of paper. A kick in the head is a jolt."
—Stanley "Ray" Kowalski
"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."
---NRA motto

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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2018-06-11 06:04pm

Oh, I remember Captain Jellicoe. I wonder if Willy does too, since a) he made him do THIS and b) it IS a smarter way likely for warships. One thing on any ship, you will be tired. Depending on the runs, so tired, that on lake or open sea, you have to tell your AB to poke you if you stop talking while sitting in the front window at times... :P
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2018-06-11 09:40pm

We see several instances in TNG and VOY where something occurred during the night shift or otherwise when they had to call senior officers to the bridge.

And yes, Jellico ordered Riker to switch from 3 to 4 shifts, and Riker got all butthurt and just ignored the order. Then had the audacity to cop an attitude when Jellico called him out on it. Hence, why Riker is conflicted over it: he doesn't want to be a dick and wants to let Stolansky run the ship his way, since that's his job, but he also, well, likes doing things his way.

Honestly, Jellico was one of the most competent Starfleet captains we've seen to date.
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2018-06-11 09:43pm

HIS way is also a polite way of saying, he's an overcontrolling douchebag who can't trust his XO, and by extension, anyone else to do their jobs. Lovely trait for a captain. Worked with several like. Wouldn't have fucking pissed on them if on fire , and if keeled over on the bridge, wait fucking 20 minutes before summoning aid. Yeah. Not real morale-boosting fuckers like that
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-06-11 09:46pm

Swindle1984 wrote:
2018-06-11 09:40pm
We see several instances in TNG and VOY where something occurred during the night shift or otherwise when they had to call senior officers to the bridge.

And yes, Jellico ordered Riker to switch from 3 to 4 shifts, and Riker got all butthurt and just ignored the order. Then had the audacity to cop an attitude when Jellico called him out on it. Hence, why Riker is conflicted over it: he doesn't want to be a dick and wants to let Stolansky run the ship his way, since that's his job, but he also, well, likes doing things his way.

Honestly, Jellico was one of the most competent Starfleet captains we've seen to date.
Yeah, I was never clear if in Chain of Command if Riker just hadn't instituted it yet or he really was countermanding his captain there because he didn't get along with Jellico.
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Re: He Who Fights Monsters (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2018-06-11 10:09pm

Jean -LUCK PICKARD, let Slick Willy get away with bloody fucking murder. No real captain would have tolerated his shit. Can you imagine, how Jim Kirk, OUR Kirk, the young one, would have dealt with this overblown fucking bloatego?? Yeah. He'd have relieved him of duty and let him play with himself in his quarters , until the next Starbase, or his court-martial. Whichever came first
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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