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Hello Everyone,

I'm working on a star wars/star trek crossover fan fiction that focus heavily on "what if a few things from from the star wars universe were to fall in the hands of the star trek universe. what i need is this "is there a Klingon battle arean or gladiator arena or some kind of fighting pit that if someone good enough could rise in the ranks of the Klingon people.

I think this is the wrong forum for this, it should be in PST, I think

In regards to your question.....

You have to remember that the Klingon society is a feudal one. What you're able to achieve is determined by bloodline, if you're from the upper class, you get to achieve greatness, if not, you are lucky to be a steward. Or if you're very very lucky, actions, such as in the case of Martok.

They do have tournaments, such as the Bat'leth competition, which Worf won. This doesn't mean anything more than that you are a champion, same as our sporting events.

If someone served the Empire with distinction, and was going to be recognized for it, they were accepted into the Order of Kahless, wherein they received the Star of Kahess. Though this was only after serving the empire, not through competitions.

I hope that helps.

I'd say Klingons are dark age, early high middle age feudal where your individual achiviments matter so a son of famous house can't just stay and get drunk on Bloodwine in Qu'nos and still get into high ranks, but members of an old and influencial noble house are more likely to be rewarded for their actions then those of lesser houses or peasantry. Basically (and yes I know I use that word a lot) you get a bonus to your "prestige-score" for being a member of a noble house but a non-noble if skillful and patient enough could get elevated into the nobility and accend all the way to high chancellor.

While it wasn't never easy to accend in feudal systems it wasn't impossible either and the system evolved (or some might say devolved) overtime but your deeds mattering more during the dark-age period then later.

Have the great Klingon pit-fighter unify the various Klingon fighting leagues to create the ultimate mixed martian arts style in the galaxy.. and call it Teras Kasi! Leaving open an intriguing future plot hook connecting it to the greater SW universe that does have Teras Kasi!

It being shroom, was mixed Martian arts a typo or deliberate?

Luke Starkiller wrote:It being shroom, was mixed Martian arts a typo or deliberate?

who knows, but IIRC the red planet is colonizied in ST so martian arts would exist

Lord Revan wrote:I'd say Klingons are dark age, early high middle age feudal where your individual achiviments matter so a son of famous house can't just stay and get drunk on Bloodwine in Qu'nos and still get into high ranks, but members of an old and influencial noble house are more likely to be rewarded for their actions then those of lesser houses or peasantry. Basically (and yes I know I use that word a lot) you get a bonus to your "prestige-score" for being a member of a noble house but a non-noble if skillful and patient enough could get elevated into the nobility and accend all the way to high chancellor.

While it wasn't never easy to accend in feudal systems it wasn't impossible either and the system evolved (or some might say devolved) overtime but your deeds mattering more during the dark-age period then later.

That fits very well with Martok's history from DS9- he was held back because he wasn't from a nobel family, but eventually got promoted for heroic deeds in battle, and was then able to ascend through the ranks.

The Romulan Republic wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:I'd say Klingons are dark age, early high middle age feudal where your individual achiviments matter so a son of famous house can't just stay and get drunk on Bloodwine in Qu'nos and still get into high ranks, but members of an old and influencial noble house are more likely to be rewarded for their actions then those of lesser houses or peasantry. Basically (and yes I know I use that word a lot) you get a bonus to your "prestige-score" for being a member of a noble house but a non-noble if skillful and patient enough could get elevated into the nobility and accend all the way to high chancellor.

While it wasn't never easy to accend in feudal systems it wasn't impossible either and the system evolved (or some might say devolved) overtime but your deeds mattering more during the dark-age period then later.

That fits very well with Martok's history from DS9- he was held back because he wasn't from a nobel family, but eventually got promoted for heroic deeds in battle, and was then able to ascend through the ranks.

IIRC Martok got blacklisted because Kor thought only nobles should be officers suggesting that it was technically possible for a non-noble to become an officer otherwise there wouldn't be a need for the blacklisting Martok.

One of the actual points of the original feudal tournaments was it was a chance for lords to distribute extra gifts, on which many of their knights depended to survive because they had small estates and needed to pay many retainers, while at the same time the knight demonstrated military competence by participating in the games. You didn't have to win everything to get major prizes, since obviously some people would just be better then others, the important thing was you were at least competent to compete, and thus competent to be in the battle charge without weakening it.

From ~12th century onward though a pretty strong and steady shift took place to a pure entertainment role, and people partaking for limited gains. This is also when they introduced the really heavy armor ect..and emphasized not killing everyone jousting. Literally because it was a way to wipe out your own army. Klingons should be given credit for that, they can be stupid, but they'd surely figure out that if you have everyone do a 1v1 duel and the other guy dies, then you just killed 50% of the army!

Its no coincidence that the establishment of the first formal modern military training schools and standing armies overlapped directly with the last generations of militarily relevant tournment. Instead of a knight's actual house being a training ground for a couple of pages and squires the knight was now something resembling an officer, but still living on a landed estate (maybe) and headed up a school for a cavalry company that might be ~80 adults fit to fight and two or three times that many trainees, but still actually had no barracks and wasn't billeted at one location but probably in a slew of houses around several towns. France got to this point in 1420 as I recall.

So anyway in the lordly tournament era the prizes scale with the rank of the lord calling it, a local baron naturally isn't probably able to hand out more then a farm, or a marriage, subject to other considerations, but the King might make someone valiant enough in the games a Baron himself. The important thing always was to put on a good show, not just kill the other damn person, so my random suggestion would be avoid the pure blood warrior approach. Leadership won't like that kind of person, and will actually be more threatened by the valiant but cunning anyway in story terms.

Getting land and title didn't just advance your rank, it also had the advantage of being more or less SOLID, in that you would really get it. Monetary prizes always had this pesky problem of everyone was always bankrupt before modern banking existed, so being awarded an annuity might not mean much if it wasn't paid eight or ten years at a time. Somehow I feel like the Klingons would always be in that situation. And the whole idea of nobility really only works if its tied into land anyway.

Just thinking, but maybe you could have some guy win the land in battle that's some vast territory because its not actually that valuable in day to day income generation, but turns out to have the Star Wars tech on it? 'buried where nobody would ever bother to dig' perhaps?

Martian arts was deliberate yes. I am sure Martian martial arts and Martian Law is harsher than weakling Earth ways.

Sea Skimmer wrote:
From ~12th century onward though a pretty strong and steady shift took place to a pure entertainment role...

Like PRO WRESTLING! Winning in sports entertainment and other bullshit IS a valid way to becoming the great military leader of powerful nations!

Actually I'd say tournaments were more like MMA with corrupt judges, You were a suppose to fight fairly I'm quite certain that higher status nobles would be able to cheat more often if they wanted to. Though there was a serious risk of loosing status if publically caught.

It's quite telling though that tournament lances got their point blunted overtime so that there was less chance of accidental death and also tournament armors became big heavy and impractical for battlefield use while providing massive protection (some tournament helmed were locked in place so the head couldn't move (and thus you couldn't accidently break your neck from impact). Battlefield lances retained their spear points and battlefield armors (even full plate ones) were lighter and allowed better freedom of movement. The stereotypical image of medival knight being barely able to move in his armor is actually due to tournament armors.

Luke Starkiller wrote:It being shroom, was mixed Martian arts a typo or deliberate?

Who cares — it sounds insanely great, it sounds insanely funny, and it sounds like it ought to fit.

Sea Skimmer wrote:One of the actual points of the original feudal tournaments was it was a chance for lords to distribute extra gifts, on which many of their knights depended to survive because they had small estates and needed to pay many retainers, while at the same time the knight demonstrated military competence by participating in the games. You didn't have to win everything to get major prizes, since obviously some people would just be better then others, the important thing was you were at least competent to compete, and thus competent to be in the battle charge without weakening it.

Actually, defeating another knight in Tourney meant you now owned his horse, his armor, his weapons, and depending on the tourney, the Knight Himself. The defeated knight had to pay a cash ransom in order to get his gear (and self) back.
Sir William Marshall, Earl Pembroke, was a wandering knight who made quite a bit of money from tourneys this way, before he joined the household of Henry the Young King. After being accused of sleeping with the Young King's wife, he went back to the Tourney circle, continuing to win money and renown before rejoining the English Court.

Of course, if you want a comedic but very good look at Jousting Tourneys in that fashion: "A Knight's Tale" does hit the right notes.