The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

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Highlord Laan
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Highlord Laan » 2017-05-26 03:51am

Burak Gazan wrote:In all fairness, Jean Luck Pickard... always WAS. Remember, both him, AND Riker were blowing gas about how combat had no use to a 'Starfleet Officer'. THESE are the guys who got better than half of Starfleet carbonized by the Dominion and Cardies. Having an opponent who's halfway competent in combat kick their asses is no surprise. And the fact they seem to ignore 90% of human history, including all of the bits about warfare, is just more TNG-Retard dialed up to 12 - Again
Oh, I know. I also forced myself through the bullshit stupidity that is the Destiny triology. Where Starfleet fucks up so hard in it duties that it gets over 100 billion of the people it's supposedly defending killed by the borg in the name of moral high ground and idealism.

It's also why I say that STO Federation is the best Federation.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-05-26 05:03am

Highlord Laan wrote:
Swindle1984 wrote:Comments and critiques are welcome.
At this point, all I'm thinking is these "Ascension" shitbeards need a boot busted off in their ass, the Federation admiralty (as usual) needs to be stripped of rank and fired en mass, preferably out of a cannon and into the sun, and Picard is a Shakespere-spouting blowhard blinded by all the insufferable idealism reflecting off his bare pate.

In short, my general view of the Federation, it's so-called "officers" and their general response to hostilities.
I'm with you on the Ascension needing a kick in the teeth. The Federation is flawed, but it really tries to do its best. They fail on occasion, but they really try. These Ascension freaks are walking war crimes and need to face the consequences for their actions.

Picard has a problem with his pride. But when the chips are down, he saves the day and makes the galaxy a better place, and isn't afraid to beg. The Federation's methods seem to work, as they do adapt, and while they did have hubris, they do seem to dust off their shoulders, and try again.

This place's consternation for the UFP being an idealistic setting gets a little grating sometimes. It's like all those fucks who wanted to see Superman being punched in the face by Batman because he was a 'nice guy', 'unrelatable', 'too perfect', etc. Because a place that strives to be good is just unacceptable for some people.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by DarthPooky » 2017-05-26 03:03pm

Oh, I know. I also forced myself through the bullshit stupidity that is the Destiny triology. Where Starfleet fucks up so hard in it duties that it gets over 100 billion of the people it's supposedly defending killed by the borg in the name of moral high ground and idealism.
What was wrong with the Destiny trilogy. I thought it was awesome.

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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-05-26 05:33pm

Oh, I know. I also forced myself through the bullshit stupidity that is the Destiny triology. Where Starfleet fucks up so hard in it duties that it gets over 100 billion of the people it's supposedly defending killed by the borg in the name of moral high ground and idealism.
:shock:

Holy shit

I know it will probably a mistake to read it, but part of me wants to, if for nothing else the ghastly level of horror. Then again, PeeKARD stood there sipping earl grey as an entire civilization was wiped out in the name of 'gods will' aka the PD as interpreted by morons. Jesus. Kirk would have killed these assholes en masse if he came back and saw half of their shit
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by DarthPooky » 2017-05-26 11:50pm

I know it will probably a mistake to read it, but part of me wants to, if for nothing else the ghastly level of horror. Then again, PeeKARD stood there sipping earl grey as an entire civilization was wiped out in the name of 'gods will' aka the PD as interpreted by morons. Jesus. Kirk would have killed these assholes en masse if he came back and saw half of their shit
So when in the Destiny trilogy did this happen. I don't remember something like that happening like that when I read it.

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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-05-26 11:53pm

I haven't seen it yet, and probably didn't. It DID however, in the ACTUAL series, while JEAN-LUCK pontificated about tehAWESOME@! Prime DIrective
Chuck has said it better: If you trying to lecture me about watching children dying screaming in flames, and how THAT was the only moral thing to do, YOU are not the fucking hero in ANY version of this
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2017-06-18 05:15am

cadbrowser wrote:I must say that I am rather enjoying this bit of ST Fan Fic. I was pretty sad to get to your last installment! :) I am looking forward for more.
Glad you're enjoying it so far.
Just a few critiques if I may...

Some of the enemy's weapon's information was a bit too wordy in my opinion, given the general lack of, what I like to call, "Charles Dickens" descriptions anywhere else for anything else. It just seemed uncharacteristic based on the previous writing style when you first started out. Almost as if you were wanting to just get something written for the sake of it. You went into techno-speak.
I'm not describing Federation tech- mostly- because we're already quite familiar with it, whereas Ascension technology is new to both the Federation and the reader and is therefore something I felt should be described in order to give some sort of concrete information about them; after all, little else is known about the Ascension, and you can't keep having a faceless enemy whose abilities and equipment are barely glossed over without readers getting frustrated by it. It's a tightrope walk between too little information and too much.

And in case you couldn't tell, I'm a firearms enthusiast. :P Everything described in the Ascension's small arms technology is feasible for current or near-future real world applications.

Where appropriate, similar descriptions for Federation technology will be provided; I just haven't had much to describe that readers haven't seen on-screen a thousand times.
I did find it comical that most of the features of their weapons or armor suites ended with ~"...we should look to incorporate that." You are really dining on the sub-context that purveys these forums regarding some of the tactical and impractical things that the "idiots" at Starfleet utilize when militarizing "Exploration" personnel.


The Federation has a tendency to be smug, complacent, and wearing those rose-tinted shades, but between the Borg and the Dominion, at least of them are starting to figure out that they're not quite as wonderful as they think they are.
I would've like to have heard more about Janeway's escape in it's own little arc/sub-chapter or whatever we call these posts. Given some of the contempt here for her and your disinterest in playing with that to either confirm/embellish it (to affirm that she should be loathed) or shed a different light to try to win some support for her back, I think you made the mistake ignoring her development for the most part.
Janeway is actually going to get a bit of a spotlight soon; whether or not it redeems her as a character remains to be seen. :P

I do find it interesting that people will complain about something or ask about something right around the time I'm about to address it in the story. It's as if every time I nod to myself and say, "ok, the next chapter is going to address this", people then bring up that very thing. Clearly we think more alike than most people.
I thought the idea of having Voyager being commemorated as a museum piece was novel and most appropriate.
So did I, which is why I incorporated it. It only makes sense for Voyager to become a museum piece; many of its systems are worn out from lack of replacement parts, have jerry-rigged components or work-arounds due to lack of said replacement parts, there's extensive modifications the crew added when they needed something the ship originally lacked or needed to improve, like astrometrics, and then there's all the non-Federation technology acquired from aliens, future Janeway, etc. that's been incorporated into the ship. Returning Voyager to Starfleet standards would require practically rebuilding the entire ship and wouldn't be worth the effort. There's also the fact that with Voyager returning after seven years, coinciding with a huge victory over the Borg at the same time, making Janeway and crew heroes and the ship that traversed the Delta Quadrant being on everyone's minds... it only makes sense to make a museum out of her while you study just what the hell the crew did to keep the ship running all this time and what all these alien/futuristic parts do.

The real question, of course, is how the hell Janeway had photon torpedoes ready to go on a museum ship. :wink: And yes, that will actually be addressed in the future.
Bringing in the Super Solder Sleeper aspect is definitely welcomed. I could see this story making it as one that JJ brings into his fold.
Yeah, I was really disappointed at how Khan was handled in the new Trek, and how his crew were barely even glossed over.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2017-06-18 07:52am

The battle was going badly.

The Federation fleet was giving its best, inflicting serious damage on the Ascension fleet, but they were outnumbered nearly two to one and even at close range, where their missile advantage was negated, the Ascension ships were still extremely nasty opponents. The battle had long ago devolved into a slugging match of attrition, one that was steadily going in the Ascension's favor. Even if Starfleet managed to somehow win this one, it would be a pyrrhic victory at best.

Picard gritted his teeth as he watched another starship, a Nebula-class, explode in front of him, and then bit his cheek painfully as the Enterprise jolted hard from another mass driver impact. He tasted blood, but ignored it, focused on the battle around him. Data was commanding the Enterprise now, freeing the commodore to focus on directing the fleet, but there was little he could do at this point; he was, effectively, just a passenger, watching helplessly while his ships slowly dwindled one by one against the seemingly unstoppable Ascension juggernaut.

"Commodore, additional reinforcements from Earth are arriving."

"On screen!"

The view switched to show a dozen more Starfleet vessels dropping out of warp, then scattering as the Ascension fired a volley of missiles at them, scrambling to close the distance and join the rest of the fleet in close-quarters combat.

"Incoming transmission."

"Put it through."

"Commodore Picard, this is Admiral Janeway, aboard the Voyager. We've got more reinforcements incoming, so just hold tight. For now, just forget that I outrank you; you're in charge of the fleet, you're better aware of the tactical situation than I am, and the middle of a battle is no time to change horses midstream."

"I appreciate that, Admiral. For now, coordinate with the T'pau and the Homestead. Picard out."

Well, would wonders never cease, he thought. He'd have figured Janeway's ego would lead her to take command the moment she arrived on scene as the highest ranking officer, but she'd managed to surprise him with a strong dose of common sense. Maybe there was hope for the woman yet.

"Commodore."

"Yes, Data?"

"I have analyzed all currently available data and concluded that, with our present forces, the best we can hope to achieve against the Ascension fleet is a stalemate. If we gain additional reinforcements as promised, we may be able to turn the battle in our favor."

"Let's hope so, Mr. Data. For now, we should concentrate our-"

"Commodore, another ship is dropping out of warp," interrupted Lt. Stennis.

"Onscreen. If it's more reinforcements, let's hope they close the distance fast, or else the Ascension will tear them apart."

The ship that appeared onscreen was startlingly familiar to Picard, and he shuddered for a moment. Like someone stepped on my grave, he thought.

"Captain, she's identifying as the USS Galaxy, but I don't recognize the configuration."

"I do," he whispered, standing and approaching the viewscreen. How much of the potential future that Q had shown him was inevitable, and how much was simply possible?

There, on the screen before him, was a Galaxy-class starship with three warp nacelles and several other obvious modifications to the design. As he watched, the ship gracefully evaded a volley of missiles, its point-defenses shooting down several that got too close and its shields flaring as one or two of the missiles successfully hit with its bomb-pumped x-ray laser. Then it returned fire.

A massive phaser beam, several times thicker than even the X-class phasers a Galaxy-class starship used as its primary weapons, fired from the large construction on the underside of the saucer section, spearing an Ascension frigate amidships and crippling it instantly. The phaser cannon fired several more times, always in short bursts, lashing out at two cruisers and a battleship; one cruiser immediately lost power, drifting out of control, while the other took severe damage. Even the battleship actually paused in its relentless storm of weapons fire for a moment after being blasted twice, before resuming.

It was an impressive display of firepower, but one ship by itself wasn't enough to turn the tide; other than the ships it hit, the Ascension didn't seem to be any more fazed by its appearance than they were by the previous reinforcements.

"Gamma Squadron, concentrate fire on that battleship; let's give our new friend the opportunity to join us in battle without those missiles barrages, hmm?"

Watching the ships he ordered respond, Picard glanced at the smaller tactical display built into his armrest and felt slightly optimistic about the battle. Losing was still a distinct possibility, but now forcing a stalemate with the Ascension seemed far more possible. He just hoped they wouldn't decide to keep battling to the death, like they often did.

----------------------

"Ensign, we've lost another relay! I'm rerouting power, but we can't get our phaser cannon back online! The nadion accelerator warped when it overheated, we're not getting another shot out of her."

"Do what you can, Chief! I've got my hands full here."

Ensign Ng waved his hands to clear the smoke wafting in front of his face, the acrid smell of a burning relay making his throat burn. Why the hell was an untested ship going into battle without even a shakedown cruise? They hadn't even finished installing half of its systems, and they were throwing it into the line of fire. Either Starfleet was incredibly stupid, or incredibly desperate.

"Gomez, I need auxilary power to the tertiary feedback array, the third nacelle is unstable."

"There is no more power! We've diverted everything we've got to the shields and phasers!"

"Dammit, I need-"

He startled at the hand suddenly appearing on his shoulder and giving him a quick, comforting squeeze. He looked down at the slightly shorter man and immediately felt some of the tension drain out of him.

"Oh, Lieutenant! I thought you were still in main engineering."

"They've got things under control down there, so I thought I'd go somewhere I'd do more good. What's this about the third nacelle?"

"It's unstable, if I don't get more power to the feedback array, it's going to destabilize the warp field."

"We don't need the warp drive right now, Ensign. The instability isn't going to damage any of our systems, and right now we need that power elsewhere. Let's concentrate on getting the main gun back online."

"Yes, sir."

"Gomez, grab a spare relay from supply closet two-two-B, then get with the Chief and swap it out. Ng, I need you right here monitoring the systems, let me know right away when anything changes. Chief, hand me that spanner. Let's get to work."

Popping open an access panel, the lieutenant immediately went prone and slid halfway inside, going to work on the damaged components within.

Ng immediately felt better just having the lieutenant there; the man exuded confidence, and he was certainly one of the few who could claim to have been there, done that, and seen it all. He'd even made the journey across the Delta Quadrant.

"Yes, sir, Lt. Kim. We're on it."

------------------------------

This was a day for surprises, it seemed. A trio of Klingon warships, a pair of K'vort-class Bird-of-preys and a much larger Negh'Var, decloaked in the midst of the two fleets and immediately opened fire on the Ascension. The Ascension seemed just as taken aback by this development as Picard was, and after another minute or so of slogging it out, the entire Ascension fleet suddenly surged forward at their maximum impulse speed, breaking out of the melee, regrouping, and then jumping to warp. Only dead and burning hulks were left behind, one of them exploding as a self-destruct mechanism presumably prevented the capture of a crippled ship.

Picard blinked at the suddenness of the enemy's retreat, then leaned back bonelessly in his chair, closed his eyes, and took a deep breath. Today's battle wouldn't cost such a high price as he'd feared after all.

"Mr. Stennis, hail the Klingons."

"Aye, sir."

Another familiar face appeared on the viewscreen, and, weary as he was, Picard smiled genuinely.

"Worf!"

"Greetings, Cap- Commodore," Worf hastily corrected, seeing the new rank insignia on Picard's collar. "It is good to see you are well."

"It's good to be well. What brings you out here? I thought the Klingons weren't going to get involved in this conflict?"

"The Klingon Empire is of the opinion that this war is between the Federation and the Ascension. Officially, we cannot intervene. However..." Worf made a wry expression, which anyone unfamiliar with him would have mistaken for simple Klingon candor. "I am here on official business as ambassador to the Federation, and seeing as I was heading into a battle, it only made sense to bring an escort. For my own protection, of course."

"Of course. And what business brings you here, ambassador?"

Worf paused for a moment, then stated in a serious tone, "Alexander's birthday is coming up soon, and I thought it would serve the Empire's interests to promote Klingon-Federation cooperation by inviting a Starfleet commodore to attend. I understand if you are unable to attend, given the present hostilities, but since I was visiting a nearby outpost I thought now was the best time to extend the invitation."

The explanation, clearly ridiculous at face value, was presented matter-of-factly, and Picard responded in kind.

"Well, I certainly appreciate the invitation, ambassador, and while I don't know if circumstances will allow, I would be delighted to attend. Please extend my regards to the Chancellor as well."

Worf nodded, and closed the channel as the Klingon ships cloaked themselves and returned to their space. Data frowned, turning to Picard.

"I do not believe Worf was being entirely honest regarding his intentions for coming to our assistance. He-"

"No, Data, he wasn't. But if he simply showed up to help us out in a pitched battle, it could get him in quite a lot of trouble. He happened to be nearby and did what he could."

"Of course," Data nodded, before resuming his more immediate duties. Picard eyed him for a moment, subtly reminded that even though this was Data, it wasn't... Data. The old Data would have immediately picked up on what Worf was doing and not questioned it. As he was now, Data's behavior reminded him more of when Picard had first met the android and he hadn't been nearly so good at picking up on social cues. He wondered if that was because of a hardware difference in B-4's body, or if it was simply a side effect of Data being a new, different individual.

"Commodore, you have another incoming transmission from the Galaxy; Captain La Forge wants to know if you would like to beam over and meet him in person?"

"That, Mr. Stennis," Picard said, tugging down his tunic as he got to his feet, "Sounds like an excellent idea. Tell him I'll be over just as soon as I've seen to my fleet."

"Aye, sir."

Time to see how expensive the butcher's bill really was, he thought bitterly.

---------------------------------

Riker and Deanna got into the Ascension shuttle for the second time, strapping themselves into the seats and waiting for the soldiers escorting them to take their own seats as the shuttle prepped for launch.

After a brief flight, lasting perhaps all of two minutes, the shuttle came to rest and they were marched out of it, into the hangar of a different ship or possibly a space station, it was impossible to tell. They were handed off to another pair of guards, marched through a series of corridors, and finally deposited in a room that was, altogether, an enormous improvement over the cell they'd been living in for who-knew-how-long.

"Clothing is available here. If you wish to wear your own uniforms, they will be cleaned for you. Shower facilities are there. Dinner will be in two hours."

Riker blinked at the tall man in the encounter suit, identical to the ones worn by the doctors who'd treated him except for a more conventional helmet with a squared-off, vertical visor and its all-black coloration.

"Thank you. Uh, dinner?"

"Yes," the presumably-male figure replied in its cool monotone, the obviously synthesized voice sounding almost soothing compared to the deep bellow of the soldiers. "This will be a formal dinner. Appropriate clothing has been provided, or if you wish to wear your uniforms, they will be cleaned."

"We would prefer to wear our uniforms, thank you."

"Simply leave them by the door. We will take them while you make use of the shower."

The man backed out of the doorway and it hissed shut at a pace Riker was used to, rather than the guillotine open-and-shut action of the cell doors in the Ascension transport.

"Quite a change, isn't it."

"Well, to be fair, we were on a military prison transport of some sort. This ship, or facility, seems to be a tad different."

Riker experimentally approached the door, then when it didn't open pressed the button beside it. Nothing.

"Looks like we're still prisoners."

Walking around the room, he was relieved to see a real bed, and a rather comfortable-looking one at that. Large enough for two, even. A distinct improvement over the stiff slab they'd been sleeping on. There was a small closet with an odd looking formal suit for him and a full-length evening dress for Deanna, as well as appropriate shoes for each. He had no intention of wearing them, but he checked and they were sized almost perfectly.

"Well, might as well take advantage of it while we have it."

Deanna joined him in scouting out the bathroom, finding it efficiently designed and well appointed with a toilet, sink, mirror, shower stall big enough for two, and a supply of various squeeze tubes labeled in a language neither of them had been able to puzzle out yet. He set their clothes by the door as instructed and rejoined Deanna in the bathroom, where she held up a tube in each hand.

"I believe this one is shampoo and this one is bodywash. Or they could be the other way around, there's very little difference if they're anything like us when it comes to soap. That one there is definitely toothpaste; they provided toothbrushes as well."

"Toothbrushes?" Riker said, almost gleefully. Even with the coating to prevent cavities and bacterial growth that all Starfleet personnel received, his teeth felt fuzzy after so long without proper cleaning. "Guess we'll do it the old-fashioned way then."

"You always did like scrubbing away at your teeth like a barbarian," Deanna commented with a smile.

They climbed in the shower, helping each other soap down and rinse, and talked as they went.

"So what do you think is going to happen, Will? They obviously want us here for a reason, and if this is going to be some sort of formal dinner, then they're obviously expecting us to act as representatives for the Federation. We may be meeting with a diplomat of some sort, or perhaps a leader."

"I honestly don't know. I haven't been able to do anything for so long, I'm trying to wrap my head around the possibility of actual activity, of making decisions. But if they want us to talk with them, that's a good sign. Maybe they aren't entirely unreasonable; maybe we can convince them to make peace with the Federation."

"Perhaps. I just hope they don't think we have the ability to make any binding agreements on behalf of the Federation. But they obviously want to come to some sort of understanding with us, so that's a good sign." She passed the shower head back him.

"Turn just a little; Deanna, we need to be prepared for another possibility. They may have brought us all this way so they could interrogate us for information. I'm a Starfleet captain, I know a lot of information about the Federation and its defenses. And in addition to being a Starfleet officer, you're my wife; they may try to use you against me. They try to use us as bargaining chips against the Federation."

"I don't get that impression. I sense that they believe it's very important they meet with us, but I'm not getting any hostile intent. I don't think they want to interrogate us."

"Well, that's good. We've been through enough, I really don't feel like getting tortured by yet another militant group of aliens."

They got out of the shower and dried off, brushed their teeth, and then retrieved their uniforms from by the door; as promised, they'd been cleaned. Faster than either of them had anticipated, in fact.

"They even repaired the little tear on my left elbow. You can barely tell."

"The Ascension are certainly thorough and efficient, I'll give them that."

Riker followed Deanna back into the bathroom and watched as she carefully brushed her hair, then looked at himself in the mirror.

Geez, I've gained weight. How long was I in a cell, without exercise?

Then he examined his reflection more closely, noting the grey on his temples and his salt-and-pepper beard growing more distinct. I'm getting old.

"You look fine. Quite distinguished, in fact."

"Why Mrs Riker," he said, grinning. "Are you using your empathic powers on me?"

"No, I just know my husband," she said, kissing him on the cheek. "How do I look? Professional?"

"Very. Though I have to say, I still prefer some of the slinky outfits you used to wear."

"Slinky? Really? You thought my outfits were slinky?"

"Weeeell, some of them more than others." He winked and leaned in for another kiss, which Deanna dodged by going around him and into the bedroom of the small apartment they'd been given.

Rebuffed, he joined her, and together they sat on the end of the bed, facing the door.

"Nervous?"

"A little. So much could be riding on this meeting. It's our first formal, diplomatic contact between the Federation and the Ascension. They've never been interested in talking to us before."

"I'm sure we'll do fine. We're trained for this sort of thing, after all."

"True," she said, grasping his hand in both of hers. "I just hope we're not misinterpreting things. We're just guessing at the Ascension's intent here, and-"

"Deanna, it'll be fine. No matter what happens, we'll be fine. I promise you that."

They sat in silence for several more minutes before a tinny chime pinged and the door hissed open, revealing the same black-clad figure, or possibly a completely different one, it was impossible to tell with the anonymous, full-face helmet and body suit.

"Dinner will begin shortly. Please come with me."

Still holding hands, the Rikers rose to their feet and followed the figure, door hissing shut behind them, and walked down a grey-carpeted corridor, the only sound the deep thump of the two soldiers behind them as they clomped in their heavy armor.

Stopping at a doorway, the man turned to face them and said, "Please seat yourselves. Your host will be with you shortly."

The door hissed open and, after briefly glancing at each other, they stepped through and into the unknown.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Darth Lucifer » 2017-06-21 06:06pm

Just discovered this since it's been recently updated. I binged through much of this, it was a great read. The technical parts were a little too detailed for my taste but that's my only real gripe. The ideas and events driving everything are really spectacular, I like the descriptions and battles too.

The handling of canon personalities is well done overall. I didn't like JLP's snarky little mental note to himself about Janeway, that did seem very out of character to me. But the most in character thing of all was Voyager lifting off and blasting it's way out of San Francisco, that is Janeway true to form. And of course the consequences are equally real, something never touched on except by nerds like us. Also love the cameos, especially Boothby, that made me cheer out loud.

My predictions about the Ascension were way off, you kept me guessing up until now. I like the suspense and the use of body suits complete with full on helmets added to the mysterious air of this new threat. I can't wait for the next part, more reveals, more battles, more awesomeness! :D :mrgreen: 8)

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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2017-07-29 02:40pm

Picard materialized into a familiar-looking transporter room, its green walls oddly comforting. I miss the old Enterprise.

"Geordi!"

He stepped off the pad and shook hands with the grinning, bearded man in front of him, then embraced him in a brief, shoulder-slapping hug.

"It's good to see you!"

"It's good to see you too, Commodore. Welcome aboard the Galaxy."

"I have to say, she looks quite a bit... different than when I last saw her."

Grinning even more broadly, Geordi gestured toward the door and led him out into the corridor.

"Oh, it's more than looks! The Galaxy-class is absolutely perfect for this sort of project! The modular nature of the original Galaxy-class starships lets us plug in new mission modules without building a whole new starship. We replaced the arboretum with a hydroponics bay, massive, and the new astrometrics section is top of the line! Even the newest starships fresh off the assembly line don't have one like we do! Leah and I were assigned to design the new warp drive using data recovered from Voyager; the slipstream drive is still a few years off from being stable enough to use safely, but between my familiarity with Galaxy-class ships and Leah having designed the original warp drive, we've been able to modify this old girl and make her the fastest ship in Starfleet. They're actually talking about modifying the warp speed scale to adjust for it."

"What, again?" Picard said wryly as they stepped into a turbolift and headed for the bridge.

"You know it. No more 'warp ten as a theoretical impossibility' the way light speed used to be, now they're talking about a new warp speed scale that goes up to fifteen. And the Galaxy can hit the top of the scale, easy. Cruising speed is going to be restricted to around warp twelve, of course."

"I have to say, for an experimental ship, this vessel seems geared around a long-term voyage. New warp drive? Massive hydroponics bay? Astrometrics? Is there a specific goal in mind?"

The turbolift doors hissed open and they stepped out onto a bridge Picard found achingly familiar, other than the color of the carpeting and the LCARS panels having updated, modern displays. It was only seven years of his life, but he really did miss the old Enterprise.

"You bet. The Galaxy Project is going to renovate all of the old Galaxy-class starships, and maybe some of the newer ones they built for the Dominion War, and they're going to become Starfleet's premier ships once again. Most of them will remain in Federation space, but two each are going to explore each quadrant, roaming farther from home than any other starship, except of course for Voyager. It'll still take years, decades even, but we're going to be charting out new territory and encountering new civilizations in no time. Of course, Starfleet wants the Galaxy Project starships to be able to defend themselves against unknown threats, so they merged the Galaxy Project with a weapons development project intended to fight the Borg; hence, the giant phaser cannon, upgraded phaser banks, additional quantum torpedo launchers, enhanced shields- also developed from technology brought back by Voyager- and a few other surprises. Only half of which are implemented, of course; we're still installing and testing all the new systems, and there's quite a few bugs to work out. Our phaser cannon overheated shortly after we used it, for example. The Galaxy wasn't even scheduled for her shakedown cruise until a year from now."

"I'm surprised Starfleet sent her into battle then."

"Well, she handled herself pretty well, all things considered, and most of what hasn't been installed are things we wouldn't need to take into battle, such as the improved sensors our astrometric section needs or the new deflector dish. But to be honest, I'm kinda surprised myself. They had us drop everything to install the new point defense systems last week, and then today they load quantum torpedoes onto the ship, give me a skeleton crew led by my engineers since they know all the systems, and send us off to reinforce the fleet. Craziest thing I ever heard of; either Starfleet is really desperate, or really stupid. Who knows."

"Mm. I think they were hoping the Galaxy's new weapons might make a psychological impact on the Ascension; or perhaps some admiral on the design board wanted to send her into battle to show off his new ideas outside of a simulation. It wouldn't be the first time someone has done that to advance their career."

"It wouldn't surprise me. In any case, while she didn't do too badly, the Galaxy isn't ready for another battle. Too many things shook loose or overheated or weren't installed in the first place. With Utopia Planitia wrecked, finishing the Galaxy is going to take even longer; we were at the facility near Jupiter, but without Utopia Planitia nearby we won't have the support or logistics we need. We're relocating the rest of the construction to Vulcan."

Picard rested one hand on Geordi's shoulder and smiled, saying quietly, "Well, while I will miss you deeply, I think your talents are best needed with your ship. Good luck, Geordi, and give my best to Leah."

"Oh, I will. You're coming to the wedding, aren't you?"

"If the Ascension give me a choice in the matter, I wouldn't miss it for the world."

Picard looked around the bridge one more time, glanced at the captain's seat fondly, and said, "She's a good ship, Geordi. Take care of her."

"I will. Let me see you off."

"Oh, no, don't trouble yourself. You have work to do and just got here, I wouldn't want to make you leave the bridge again. You'll have to give me the full tour some other time."

Geordi nodded, then walked into his ready room as Picard took one last look at the bridge and stepped into the lift. He was joined by a youthful, but somehow seasoned-looking man wearing lieutenant's pips.

"Transporter room three. And where are you going, Lieutenant...?"

"Kim, sir. Same place. I'm being temporarily assigned to another ship in the fleet; apparently they need my technical expertise."

"Is that so? You wouldn't be the same Kim from Voyager, would you?"

"The very same."

"It must feel good to be home again."

"Oh, it does, sir. In fact, I just got married a month ago. We're already expecting."

"Really? Congratulations! Is it a boy, or a girl?"

"We don't know yet. We're keeping it a surprise."

The doors opened and they walked down the corridor toward the transporter room.

"Well, you seem to be doing well for yourself since getting home."

"That I am, sir. Things are definitely looking up for me." Harry Kim didn't mention that his new-found confidence and self-assertion were partly from how things had turned out since Voyager returned to Earth and partly from extensive therapy sessions to help him deal with his issues stemming from being stranded in the Delta Quadrant. He'd had a lot of repressed stress and trauma from years of horrible things happening to him, and his counselor had helped him realize that part of his emotional dullness was because of Captain Janeway and the way she'd treated him. He still liked the captain, and it wasn't her fault, but he just couldn't deal with her style of command or... eccentric decisions that seemed to constantly put them in danger again and again, anymore. Transferring to an engineering assignment working on the Galaxy Project had been just what he needed to get away from all the stress and the claustrophobic feelings he'd had aboard Voyager, and finally marrying his sweetheart Libby, along with impending fatherhood, had done a lot of good for his psychological wellbeing. He was happy, safe, and felt like he could do anything.

"Well Lieutenant, I wish you the best of luck."

"Thank you, Commodore. You as well."

Picard beamed back to the Enterprise, and Harry turned to the transporter chief to ask, "So, which ship am I being assigned to?"

The chief checked his coordinates while Harry stepped onto the pad, then looked up with a grin.

"Good news, sir; it's the Voyager. You're going home again."

It was all Harry could do not to shriek at the unfairness of the universe as he dissolved in a beam of light and reappeared on a familiar transporter pad.

"Ah, Lieutenant; the Admiral would like to see you on the bridge."

"The Admiral?"

"Yes, Admiral Janeway. I believe you two know each other," the transporter operator said with a wink.

Ignoring the sinking feeling in his stomach, Harry nodded woodenly, then stepped out into the corridor and made his way to the turbolift.

"Bridge."

Dammit dammit dammit! Why did it have to be Voyager again?! Why Janeway?! He'd tried so hard to escape all the trauma and stress, and now here he was, stressing out, feeling like a helpless child again, like the lowly ensign he'd been during the seven years he was trapped on Voyager. He'd gotten everything he wanted, only to have it snatched away again so he could be stuck aboard Voyager, with Janeway sending them flying straight into danger for no good reason.

"It really is the voyage of the damned," he whispered.

The lift stopped and he stepped out onto the bridge, shoulders hunched.

"Harry! It's good to see you again!"

"Likewise, Admiral."

"Listen Harry, Voyager isn't really supposed to be operational again. I took off from San Francisco with a skeleton crew and some photon torpedoes jerry-rigged from museum displays, and I didn't really feel like sending her back, especially since Starfleet needs every ship they can get. I've got a full crew complement and full torpedo bays for the first time since we left Deep Space Nine, but I could really use someone who understands my style of command and is familiar with Voyager itself. And when I found out you were aboard the Galaxy, I just had to get you back!"

Squeezing Harry in a tight hug he didn't return, partly because of how awkward he suddenly felt, Janeway stepped back, gracing him with another smile, and saying earnestly, "I could really use you at ops. What do you say, Harry?"

"Uh, s-sure. I'd be glad to."

"Good ol' Harry. I knew I could count on you," Janeway said, slapping his arm in approval.

"Uh, Admiral? There's something... crawling on your shoulder."

"Huh?" Janeway looked down, spotted movement, and gently plucked it off her uniform.

"Oh, a garden spider. He must've gotten aboard while Voyager was in San Francisco. They had the shuttle bay doors open, so all kinds of critters got in there; Petty Officer Logan had to beam a trio of pigeons out of the shuttle bay once things calmed down near Earth. Harry, be a dear and deposit him in the airponic room, would you?"

Harry looked down awkwardly as the admiral dropped the spider into his hand and returned to the captain's seat, and he shuffled off the bridge, tossed the spider into a corner of the turbolift and tried not to hyperventilate from a panic attack.

Damn it all to hell.


-----------------------------------


Riker and Troi seated themselves at the table, which had place settings for three, one of which they assumed was whatever representative the Ascension would have them meet, since it was at the head of the table.

Their guards had flanked either side of the door they entered and now stood at attention, rifles at port arms.

Shortly after seating themselves, the door hissed open and three people entered. Two looked identical to the aide that had shown them their room and escorted them into the dining room (and he may have been one of them, for all they knew), but the third was much shorter, had a more rounded helmet with a visor that took up more of the face, and was the first member of the Ascension they'd encountered who was probably female, judging by the chest and hips 'she' sported. They carried serving trays, quickly and efficiently putting covered platters on the table, placing glasses of ice water in front of their 'guests', and generally preparing the meal. Task complete, the two probably-males retreated from the room while the probably-female took up a station against the wall, staring straight ahead with a cloth hung over one arm.

Riker was beginning to wonder if he should say something, when the door opened again and another figure stepped through. He wore a body suit similar to the ones worn by the aides, but he had a formal suit like the one in Riker's closet over it, and his helmet had a couple of antennae on one side and a bulkier look to it. He seated himself at the head of the table, then removed his gloves and helmet, allowing the aide to hang them on a rack behind him.

Riker didn't know what he'd been expecting, but this certainly wasn't it. The man looked human, with neatly trimmed blonde hair and an immaculately styled Van Dyke that turned up at the tips of his mustache. How the goatee had fit inside the helmet was somewhat confusing.

"You are Captain William Riker and his wife, ship's counselor Deanna Riker?"

"We are."

"I am Minister Georges Fabio," he said, pronouncing his g's softly in the French way, though his accent was nothing of the sort. "On behalf of the Ascension, I greet you and I apologize for the circumstances of our meeting."

The aide began serving up food, and Riker found his plate heaped with unfamiliar vegetables in some sort of sauce, what looked to be chicken in a similar but darker sauce, and pasta with some sort of stick-like protrusions that were striped white and orange. A mug of what turned out to be excellent coffee was placed next to his water.

"Please, feel free to eat while we talk. I'll start with the Ascension's side of the story. Our contacts amongst the Ferengi and other races inform us that your Federation has learned of our identity, so there's no point in keeping it secret from you. The Ascension is a confederation of half a dozen species, but most of us are... human."

Riker and Deanna looked shocked as they heard this, and he continued.

"Specifically, our founders were refugees who fled Earth in the early 21st century. The Ascension Project began in the late 20th century as a means of benefiting humanity and allowing us to exploit the resources of the solar system; with the construction of the first DY-100 sleeper ships, beginning in the 1990's, we intended to send the first manned missions to nearby stars. But then the Eugenics Wars broke out, and we used those ships to escape Earth and search for a new home."

"I... have several questions," Riker stated tentatively.

"Go ahead. The purpose of this meeting is so we can come to understand one another's perspectives on this conflict and resolve it."

"Why flee Earth? Once the Augments were defeated and the tyrants overthrown, there was no reason to- you anticipated the Third World War, didn't you. You were fleeing before it broke out in the aftermath of the Eugenics Wars."

"Actually," their host said dryly, sipping from his glass of water. "We fled because our side lost."

"You're Augments," Deanna stated, showing much less surprise at this revelation than Riker felt.

"Yes."

"Ok, putting that aside for a moment, if you fled Earth in the early 21st century in slower-than-light sleeper ships, then how did you have war ships all the way out here when we encountered you in the 22nd century? How did you even get here? We encountered Khan in deep space after he'd drifted for centuries, but he didn't make it nearly as far as you did."

"Khan? As in Khan Noonien Singh?"

"Yes."

"Interesting. We didn't know he survived the Eugenics Wars; we haven't gone through all of the records from your ship yet. We didn't manage to take all of the sleeper ships with us when we left Earth, so I suppose it isn't terribly surprising that he commandeered one for himself. As for how we made it all the way here in sleeper ships, it's simple: we didn't. Not all Augments were able to flee Earth, nor did you manage to hunt them all down and kill them," Deanna twitched slightly as he said this. "And when new warp-capable ships were constructed, they commandeered two of them, intercepted our slow ships, and towed them along. Later, we encountered other races along our journey and began a mutually beneficial relationship with them."

"I sense that you feel as if you're the victims of the Eugenics Wars, and that your people had to leave because they were persecuted," Deanna interjected.

"Of course. We were engineered as the next phase of human development, the next step up from Homo Sapiens to Homo Superior. Our creators trained us to be leaders, warriors, diplomats, scientists, engineers, doctors... we were supposed to benefit all mankind and elevate them to be like us. Instead, we were resented by the jealous and the backward, and when the world was descending into chaos with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise of the Eastern Coalition, we had to act. We put a stop to the coming war and established peace, order, and prosperity... and you turned on us. Called us usurpers and tyrants. Turned the entire world against us, and issued orders to have us exterminated; not merely to arrest our leaders and charge them with crimes, but to have us, all of us, exterminated, regardless of innocence or guilt, simply because you felt threatened by our existence. So of course we feel our people were persecuted; we were. We had to run for our lives into deep space, not knowing where we were going or what we would find when we got there; the vastness of the space and the possibility of our very survival were completely unknown, but remaining on Earth was a death sentence. And you proved us right; as soon as you thought we were all dead and gone, you nearly destroyed yourselves with the very war we'd been trying to prevent in the first place."

"So you resent us for that."

"Oh, certainly; but it's been a couple of generations since then, so only the elderly still feel that old wound. Our policy of isolation and avoiding contact with the Federation stems from the Eugenics Wars, but we haven't kept it up all this time solely because of that conflict. No, it's what you've done since then."

"What do you mean?" Riker demanded, feeling defensive at being portrayed as the bad guy in the Eugenics Wars. In his mind, it was rather like being confronted by the descendant of a Nazi soldier and told that the Allies had been in the wrong in World War Two.

"Let's take one of our client races, the Valakians, for example. We encountered them while searching for a new world to claim as our own. They were a dying people, with an ailment that was easily cured by anyone with the technology we had. And we learned from them that they had encountered humans, who had developed that cure... and then refused to give it to them, condemning their species to extinction, and not even having the courtesy to at least tell them why. So we cured them, and in exchange they became our client; we developed new starships, based on the ones we'd brought with us, and the Valakians left with us to colonize what a year later became Ascension space."

"But why would they abandon their own world? And if you were looking to colonize a planet yourselves, why not stay there?"

"Because you were there. If you knew of our existence, you would continue your crusade to exterminate us. Once you realized the Valakians hadn't been condemned to a slow death, you would investigate who cured them and how, and you would find us. Once the Valakians learned of our history and how you sought to exterminate us, and knowing of your attempt to commit genocide against them, they were no longer willing to stay where your more advanced Starfleet could threaten them. So we both left, looking for a new home, and found it together. We acquired our other client races in much the same way; single-world civilizations who encountered your United Earth, and later Federation of Planets, and came out the worst for it. You do realize your Federation has a bit of a bad reputation in this corner of space, don't you? The Breen, the K'zinti, the Gorn, the T'sari, all of them rather resent your high-handedness, your arrogance, and your hypocrisy."

Riker opened his mouth to give Fabio a piece of his mind, but Deanna stopped him by reaching under the table and squeezing his thigh. She interjected, much more diplomatically than he would have.

"Be that as it may, the Federation genuinely wants peace and friendship with all civilizations. We've cured sickness, poverty, violence, and-"

"How many attempted coups has Starfleet had throughout its history? What about Federation colonies like Turkana IV or El Facil? You don't have poverty and violent crime because any world afflicted by them, you simply cast out and claim it's not your problem. Cured sickness? How many plagues do you deal with in any given year? Hate and racism? You went around the quadrant telling everyone not to do business with the Ferengi, who you hadn't even formally met, because they were untrustworthy cannibals who ate their clients! You made it your policy to exterminate human beings simply for being genetically augmented! Even a century after the Eugenics Wars, you made it your mission to destroy Augments! How about when you released weapons on the Maquis, your own people, that rendered an entire world uninhabitable and threatened to do it again? And don't forget, Counselor, I've read your history files and personal logs after we downloaded the contents of your ship's computer. I even know how you, Captain, murdered your own clone on Mariposa!"

Riker's mouth hung open like a gasping fish as Fabio rose from his seat and slammed one fist against the dinner table.

"I also know how your Prime Directive has been used to excuse additional acts of genocide! You were content to use your non-interference clause to let the entire populations of worlds, whole civilizations, go extinct! Boraal II! Drema IV! You actually use your Prime Direction to excuse moral laziness and refuse to help people in need, all while smugly preaching to the universe how you're so enlightened and ethically superior!"

Fabio sat down, looking disgusted.

"And you wouldn't even leave us in peace. Time and again we made it clear we wanted nothing to do with you, but you just kept coming and trying to wheedle your way into opening diplomatic relations with us. Why? We had no technology you wanted, you knew nothing about us, and we kept driving you away, so why persist? Why keep coming out to Ascension space, where we were bothering no one, and trying to make us open up to you? So you could recruit us into your Federation? Oh wait, no, that's right; your ship's logs say you wanted to annex part of our space to fuel your war machine so you could fight the Dominion again. Please, Captain, tell me all about how righteous your utopian Federation is."

Riker sat speechless, fork forgotten in his hand. He was, frankly, stunned. Deanna shifted uncomfortably beside him, then quietly said, "I feel like we've gotten off on the wrong foot. I believe you invited us to dinner for a specific reason?"

Fabio, still scowling, momentarily turned his attention to his neglected plate, shoveling a mouthful of pasta into his mouth. Following it with a drink from his glass, he seemed to have calmed himself somewhat.

"Yes. The Ascension never wanted this war; we'd hoped if we showed ourselves as a threat you had to take seriously, you would back off and avoid another war. Obviously we miscalculated. Now we're both stuck in an increasingly costly conflict neither of us really wants to prolong. Thus, in the interest of peacefully resolving the war, we'd like to create an understanding between our two peoples and end the war."

"That," Deanna said slowly, "sounds like an excellent idea. But I have the feeling it may not be as easy as we hope."
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by LadyTevar » 2017-07-29 03:38pm

Nicely done. The way the Prime Directive was handled in ST:NG was one of the main complaints I had.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-07-29 05:48pm

Great chapter
Best Fisking and De-Panting of that flawed ideology in a long time. Kirk would be impressed even.
And Janeway?? Nope. No WAY that transfer would OR SHOULD have been approved. That BITCH is just evil. Please, kill her
Nice touch. SF Debris will be pleased :twisted:
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2017-07-30 02:24am

Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-07-29 05:48pm
SF Debris will be pleased :twisted:

I'd be amazed if he read my stuff.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-07-30 03:05am

If involves possible Janeway-death-payback, someone will mention it
:D
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by cadbrowser » 2017-07-31 03:01pm

Oooooh...I really like this chapter. Very nicely done. I agree with LadyTevar...the way you called out the Federation's negative use of the Prime Directive was spot on.

Keep in coming!
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-07-31 06:21pm

"How many attempted coups has Starfleet had throughout its history? What about Federation colonies like Turkana IV or El Facil? You don't have poverty and violent crime because any world afflicted by them, you simply cast out and claim it's not your problem. Cured sickness? How many plagues do you deal with in any given year? Hate and racism? You went around the quadrant telling everyone not to do business with the Ferengi, who you hadn't even formally met, because they were untrustworthy cannibals who ate their clients! You made it your policy to exterminate human beings simply for being genetically augmented! Even a century after the Eugenics Wars, you made it your mission to destroy Augments! How about when you released weapons on the Maquis, your own people, that rendered an entire world uninhabitable and threatened to do it again? And don't forget, Counselor, I've read your history files and personal logs after we downloaded the contents of your ship's computer. I even know how you, Captain, murdered your own clone on Mariposa!"
Nice try, Mr. Ubermensch, but Turkana IV left the Federation, then things went to hell. They were not 'thrown out'.

I'm also sure that the people suffering from from the Teplan Blight can attest to the fact that thanks to Federation doctors, they still exist as a people. Or that Bajor actually has hospitals, clinics, and infrastructure now thanks to Federation support.

He also forgets that the Augments that the United Earth government ran into tried to start a war between Earth and the Klingons, and that they weren't going to be put to death for simply existing, but to stop a war.

Fair point on the Ferengi propaganda though.
"Of course. We were engineered as the next phase of human development, the next step up from Homo Sapiens to Homo Superior. Our creators trained us to be leaders, warriors, diplomats, scientists, engineers, doctors... we were supposed to benefit all mankind and elevate them to be like us. Instead, we were resented by the jealous and the backward, and when the world was descending into chaos with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise of the Eastern Coalition, we had to act. We put a stop to the coming war and established peace, order, and prosperity... and you turned on us. Called us usurpers and tyrants. Turned the entire world against us, and issued orders to have us exterminated; not merely to arrest our leaders and charge them with crimes, but to have us, all of us, exterminated, regardless of innocence or guilt, simply because you felt threatened by our existence. So of course we feel our people were persecuted; we were. We had to run for our lives into deep space, not knowing where we were going or what we would find when we got there; the vastness of the space and the possibility of our very survival were completely unknown, but remaining on Earth was a death sentence. And you proved us right; as soon as you thought we were all dead and gone, you nearly destroyed yourselves with the very war we'd been trying to prevent in the first place."
Note how Mr. Ubermensch politely forgets to mention that most of the Eugenics wars were Augments leading their own empires against each other in pointless petty squabbles in power and control. Guess it must have slipped his mind how that caused a lot of the mess.
"Uh, Admiral? There's something... crawling on your shoulder."

"Huh?" Janeway looked down, spotted movement, and gently plucked it off her uniform.

"Oh, a garden spider. He must've gotten aboard while Voyager was in San Francisco. They had the shuttle bay doors open, so all kinds of critters got in there; Petty Officer Logan had to beam a trio of pigeons out of the shuttle bay once things calmed down near Earth. Harry, be a dear and deposit him in the airponic room, would you?"

Harry looked down awkwardly as the admiral dropped the spider into his hand and returned to the captain's seat, and he shuffled off the bridge, tossed the spider into a corner of the turbolift and tried not to hyperventilate from a panic attack.
Someone is clearly an SFDebris fan. :P

Kudos for pointing out the Prime Directive whoopsies that litter Trek's moralism in the worst way. But this guy is clearly coloring his perspective. I wonder why the Ascension didn't self-destruct due to in-fighting. Or was it because they had the Federation as a boogeyman?
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2017-07-31 08:44pm

1) I deliberately biased his statements. After all, their information on the Federation is imperfect to begin with, they're biased so of course it colors their interpretation of events, and they already have plenty of legitimate reasons for disliking the Feddies.

2) Of course their version of history paints them in a positive light. First off, nobody ever thinks they're the bad guys. Second, the victor writes the history books. Or in this case, the refugee with a captive audience and nobody to contradict him writes the history books.

3) The Augments fought each other because they had different leaders jockeying for position as supreme leader. The Ascension started out with one leader, and he made damn sure there was no competition for his job and that everybody was on the same page. More details on Ascension history and culture in the next chapter.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by cadbrowser » 2017-08-01 08:11am

An outright lie regarding Turkana IV should've been at least caught by Riker or Deanna and challenged. But, everything else as you commented above Swindle1984 was as I expected it to be...biased with some historical revisionism. Again, all I can say is well done.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-08-02 04:38am

Swindle1984 wrote:
2017-07-31 08:44pm
1) I deliberately biased his statements. After all, their information on the Federation is imperfect to begin with, they're biased so of course it colors their interpretation of events, and they already have plenty of legitimate reasons for disliking the Feddies.

2) Of course their version of history paints them in a positive light. First off, nobody ever thinks they're the bad guys. Second, the victor writes the history books. Or in this case, the refugee with a captive audience and nobody to contradict him writes the history books.

3) The Augments fought each other because they had different leaders jockeying for position as supreme leader. The Ascension started out with one leader, and he made damn sure there was no competition for his job and that everybody was on the same page. More details on Ascension history and culture in the next chapter.
I eagerly await Mr. Ubermensch getting the Picard speech. This is probably why he's facing off against Riker, as his lies and propaganda wouldn't fly under Jean Luc Picard's supervision.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Swindle1984 » 2017-08-03 11:37pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2017-08-02 04:38am

I eagerly await Mr. Ubermensch getting the Picard speech. This is probably why he's facing off against Riker, as his lies and propaganda wouldn't fly under Jean Luc Picard's supervision.

1) Just because it isn't true doesn't mean it's a lie. Recall the TNG episode where Riker and two aliens gave testimony via hologram in a murder trial, and all three portrayed events in a drastically different way... and Troi stated that none of them were lying, all believed what they portrayed was the truth. Perspective is a bitch, especially with propaganda teaching you what the "truth" is all your life.

2) He's not entirely wrong, either.

3) You think Riker will let him get away with those accusations? Right now he's floored both by the idea that somebody genuinely thinks the Feddies are the bad guys, the revelation of who the Ascension are and what their motives/grievances are, and the whole "you murdered your own clone" accusation. Which is absolutely true, Riker did that. Just because he's flat-footed now doesn't mean Riker isn't going to return fire; it's Riker, after all. He was never shy about voicing his opinion or standing up against what he perceived as bullshit.

Also, my interpretation of the whole Turkana IV issue was that there was a coup/uprising, they declared independence from the Federation, and the Feddies said "can do", cut them loose, washed their hands of the whole mess, and left everyone on Turkana IV to fend for themselves as the revolutionaries descended into infighting, factionalism, and then the whole disgusting mess of terrorism, rape gangs, etc. Please enlighten me if I got that wrong; I haven't seen the episodes revolving around that in a couple of years. If more info was revealed in the novels, I don't care; the show doesn't consider them canon and neither do I.

It still would strike me as odd that the Feddies would just let Turkana IV secede and descend into chaos unless they did so for reasons of "not our problem, now go away and quit screwing up our utopia"; after all, they continued to consider the Maquis to be Federation subjects even after they seceded, and even went so far as to engage in military action, up to and including using WMD's against them, to force them back into the fold (I know this was largely motivated by the desire to avoid pissing off the Cardassians, but c'mon.). Note that I haven't seen the last half of DS9, haven't seen the first half since it originally aired, and have only recently started watching the series again from the beginning, so I'm still in early season one. Hence, my avoidance of many characters and events from DS9. All my info on that series comes from Memory Alpha articles and SFDebris reviews. TNG and Voyager I've seen in their entirety.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-04 12:10am

There's a lot of good in the Feds
There is also , one hell of a lot of overblown, fatheaded ARROGANCE, who on a good day, makes you want to punch them in the throat. Several Times. The humans-are-always-right club and SHUT UP!! they explained. That, gets really boring ONCE. Hearing it for years, is 7 paces past annoying. As recent as today, caught a DS9 Ep, where Bajor , and Shakaar, are going over the stuff to join the Federation ; the usual grey, bland, pablum from the Feds, how this is how everyone joins , and there are no exceptions, and shut up, they explained. even ODO, had the sense to observe that MAYBE, being occupied for 50 fucking years, MIGHT just deserve some slightly different consideration. While the mighty Feds sat on their asses fucking watching. Not to mention, the current strategic importance of the Wormhole. We were spared the Fed-negotiate-speak, but in the end, they were forced to concede, that yes, perhaps he had a point.....
Jesus.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-08-04 12:52am

Swindle1984 wrote:
2017-08-03 11:37pm
FaxModem1 wrote:
2017-08-02 04:38am

I eagerly await Mr. Ubermensch getting the Picard speech. This is probably why he's facing off against Riker, as his lies and propaganda wouldn't fly under Jean Luc Picard's supervision.

1) Just because it isn't true doesn't mean it's a lie. Recall the TNG episode where Riker and two aliens gave testimony via hologram in a murder trial, and all three portrayed events in a drastically different way... and Troi stated that none of them were lying, all believed what they portrayed was the truth. Perspective is a bitch, especially with propaganda teaching you what the "truth" is all your life.
So, will we actually see the dark sides of the Ascension, or have them pointed out to the people in the Ascension? Things like, "Shooting ambassadors is generally a bad idea if you want to be left alone, or killing villagers defending their homes wasn't really acceptable in the 20th or 21st centuries, why do you think it is now?"
2) He's not entirely wrong, either.
He's not, but he's nowhere near right, as the Enterprise itself has gone on errands of mercy dozens of times for those who weren't part of the Federation.
3) You think Riker will let him get away with those accusations? Right now he's floored both by the idea that somebody genuinely thinks the Feddies are the bad guys, the revelation of who the Ascension are and what their motives/grievances are, and the whole "you murdered your own clone" accusation. Which is absolutely true, Riker did that. Just because he's flat-footed now doesn't mean Riker isn't going to return fire; it's Riker, after all. He was never shy about voicing his opinion or standing up against what he perceived as bullshit.
This is a matter of personal taste, I guess, but this doesn't seem like Riker, a seasoned captain doing what he can for his crew and trying to get out of prison, but rather a man who's broken by the superior Ascension, with his main priorities being to enjoy a good book on a datapad rather than his duty, eating the occasional meal, and receiving lectures on why the Federation is awful, and the Ascension is superior. Compared to his attitude in 'Future Imperfect', 'Gambit', 'The Pegasus', or even in 'Attached', wherein he does fight back, and if something doesn't work out, tries something else.
Also, my interpretation of the whole Turkana IV issue was that there was a coup/uprising, they declared independence from the Federation, and the Feddies said "can do", cut them loose, washed their hands of the whole mess, and left everyone on Turkana IV to fend for themselves as the revolutionaries descended into infighting, factionalism, and then the whole disgusting mess of terrorism, rape gangs, etc. Please enlighten me if I got that wrong; I haven't seen the episodes revolving around that in a couple of years. If more info was revealed in the novels, I don't care; the show doesn't consider them canon and neither do I.

It still would strike me as odd that the Feddies would just let Turkana IV secede and descend into chaos unless they did so for reasons of "not our problem, now go away and quit screwing up our utopia"; after all, they continued to consider the Maquis to be Federation subjects even after they seceded, and even went so far as to engage in military action, up to and including using WMD's against them, to force them back into the fold (I know this was largely motivated by the desire to avoid pissing off the Cardassians, but c'mon.). Note that I haven't seen the last half of DS9, haven't seen the first half since it originally aired, and have only recently started watching the series again from the beginning, so I'm still in early season one. Hence, my avoidance of many characters and events from DS9. All my info on that series comes from Memory Alpha articles and SFDebris reviews. TNG and Voyager I've seen in their entirety.
Most of the information we get is from the TNG episode 'Legacy'.

Essentially, it was an Earth colony. Something went wrong on Turkana IV, and various factions rose up. They separated from the Federation. The government lost control, and gave it to gangs, the gangs then took over, and fought each other until there really wasn't a colony left. They then told the UFP to 'fuck off', and ceased communication.

Somehow, Tasha Yar got off-planet to join Starfleet instead of joining one of the gangs. This got her labeled a coward by her family and comrades on the planet.

When the UFP came back to try and reestablish contact, they were told to keep on 'fucking off or we'll shoot you.', so the UFP focused on other problems. Contact only happened when a team crashed there and were held as hostages in exchange for ransom demands, which the Enterprise rescued, and then sped off, because they weren't making the situation better by interfering.

I mean, sure, Starfleet could come in and occupy Turkana IV to rebuild the place, but they clearly aren't wanted, and would have had to do so by force.

My only justification for the Maquis is that they were dealing with a Cold War with the Romulans at the time, and Wolf 359 happened, so they needed to consolidate their forces, and a full time war against the Cardassians would open up their border to the Romulans, so they had short term losses for long term gain.

As they got several diplomatic concessions out of the Cardassians(freeing Bajor, co-working with the Cardassian Union on scientific missions, Cardassia making peace and giving back artifacts to Bajor, Cardassia eventually having a democratic movement, etc.), it was starting to pave the way for a more stable Alpha Quadrant. Then they had to deal with a Dominion controlled Cardassia, and couldn't risk a war with them, until peace was no longer an option.

It's also worth noting that throughout all of DS9, the Maquis was only really a priority for the Federation when material was stolen from them or in their territory, or when the Cardassians tried to make an issue out of it to justify starting a war.

The WMDs was Sisko's action, and his alone.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-04 01:02am

My only justification for the Maquis is that they were dealing with a Cold War with the Romulans at the time, and Wolf 359 happened, so they needed to consolidate their forces, and a full time war against the Cardassians would open up their border to the Romulans, so they had short term losses for long term gain.
Timeline kills that. Wolf 359 and the Borg massacre happened BEFORE the end of the occupation and DS9 was taken over by the Feds. And remember, only the Feds, can WIN a war against the Cardies, and get fucked in the ass by a treaty. The Roms had been doing what they always been doing, If there was any Cold War stuff, it would have been on the Cardie border, where the actual shooting war had been.
Other than Sisko - and the Feds - being dicks and having a bruised ego and their penis size insulted by the Maquis, there was NO reason for all the bullshit on that front. Massively overblown
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-08-04 01:46am

Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-08-04 01:02am
My only justification for the Maquis is that they were dealing with a Cold War with the Romulans at the time, and Wolf 359 happened, so they needed to consolidate their forces, and a full time war against the Cardassians would open up their border to the Romulans, so they had short term losses for long term gain.
Timeline kills that. Wolf 359 and the Borg massacre happened BEFORE the end of the occupation and DS9 was taken over by the Feds. And remember, only the Feds, can WIN a war against the Cardies, and get fucked in the ass by a treaty. The Roms had been doing what they always been doing, If there was any Cold War stuff, it would have been on the Cardie border, where the actual shooting war had been.
Other than Sisko - and the Feds - being dicks and having a bruised ego and their penis size insulted by the Maquis, there was NO reason for all the bullshit on that front. Massively overblown
It also depends on how fast Starfleet took to rebuild in the four years between Wolf 359 and the peace treaty with the Cardassians. The Cardassians may have led a version of the Tet Offensive to try and make themselves look bigger. Or public burnout from what seemed like a pointless war, as with Vietnam.

Like I said, it's the only justification I have, the Federation really acted stupid with the Maquis.
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Re: The Sins of the Father (Star Trek)

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-04 05:29pm

"we'll have the fleet back up in less than a year"
So sayeth the annoying blonde bitch who wanted Riker's job (yeah , I know her name, but fuck her...)
So, we either take her, the supposed expert who was working on all these fancy ideas at Utopia Planitia as a lying moron, or someone spent way more of the Starfleet budget on luxury command capsules for the admiralty and the council
39 ships is a dent sure; more than 10% of the current US Navy. But the Federation is supposed to be a quadrant-spanning power, with a hell of a lot of resources to draw on. And I'm fairly certain 39 ships was NOT that big a loss , percentage wise
What it likely comes down to, is the old standby, shitty writing and minimalism. Saying shit without thinking it through.
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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