Sol Hope discussion thread

[Skywalker_T-65]

Okay here we go...I came up with this a while back but I took a while to work this up. Right now this is the timeline of my original faction the Sol Confederacy. It will chronicle how they started, how they got to where they are, and some tech. Oh, and I'm just using the tried and true 'Earth is in the Unknown Regions' idea. I would like some constructive criticism for this, and if you like the idea, you can ask to be a character in it too (just say if you want to be with Sol, the Chiss, the Empire, etc.).


1947 AD/323 BBY: A small freighter crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. The only people aboard were a handful of Duros teenagers, all of whom died on impact. This ship would be moved to the notorious Area 51 for extensive testing.

2000 AD/ 266 BBY: First test flight of the rebuilt freighter. Sets off alarm bells in Moscow and Beijing, since they had spies in place to see the new ‘airplane’.

2007 AD/ 259 BBY: After numerous failed diplomatic approaches, WWIII begins, with the Peoples Republic of China and the Russian Federation attacking the United States led Western Coalition. The war was brought on by a lack of resources in the Eastern Federation (name for China/Russia Alliance) and wanting to capture the Duros ship.

2014 AD/ 252 BBY: After seven years of stalemated war, with neither side gaining a real advantage, the use of nuclear weapons begins. Most of the major cities on both sides are obliterated.

2025 AD/ 241 BBY: The world is finally starting to recover from the nuclear devastation of WWIII. In an old abandoned military base in Iowa, the Duros ship is found by a scouting group of the new United Earth Republic. They immediately send it to St. Louis, Missouri, one of the few surviving large cities, and now site of the largest military base in the former United States.

2032 AD/234 BBY: The launch of UERS Enterprise, the first true spacecraft in Earth history. It starts on a trip to Mars to start the first colony on the red planet, using technology found on the Duros freighter. But it didn’t have the main drive system of the older ship, since the hyperdrive was still too advanced for Earth scientists to reverse engineer it.

2062 AD/ 204 BBY: The scientists working on the Duros ship finally manage to make a working hyperdrive. It is a slow one, not even Class 8 by the Galaxy’s standards. But it is enough to send a retrofitted Enterprise and its sister ships Lexington and Yorktown to Alpha Centuari.

2063 AD/ 203 BBY: Establishment of Arcadia, the first Earth Colony outside of Sol, in the Alpha Centuari system.

2080 AD/186 BBY: Several Colony ships are sent to other nearby systems, including Epsilon Eridani, Epsilon Indi, and Tau Ceti. No other intelligent life forms are found, and the colonies flourish because of that.

2085 AD/181 BBY: The Enterprise and its class are retired, with the name ship put in a museum next to the Duros ship on Earth.

2110 AD/ 156 BBY: The Phoenix class cruiser is put into service.

2130 AD/ 126 BBY: First contact with the piratical Vaggari is made. The Phoenix class Cruiser, Deception is destroyed.

2132 AD/ 124 BBY: The Vaggari launch an attack on the colony Cestus in the Epsilon Indi System. The United Earth 1st Starfleet repels the attack with heavy losses on both sides. First introduction of Earth Mass Driver technology, as the modified Phoenix Cruisers use large variants to destroy Vaggari ships.

2136 AD/ 120 BBY: The Earth Fleet pushes the Vaggari out of Republic territory.

2145 AD/ 111 BBY: The few remaining Phoenix class ships are retired. The Defender Class Cruiser replaces them; with Archangel class Destroyers and Terra class Frigates backing them up.

2175 AD/ 81 BBY: The United Earth Republic is reformed into the Sol Confederacy, with the old name only being the Capitals form of government. First contact with the Chiss Ascendancy is made.

2176 AD/ 80 BBY: The Confederacy/Chiss Wars begin, with the extremely xenophobic Chiss attacking a Sol force of Archangel and Terra class vessels exploring an unclaimed system on their border, though the Chiss claimed the Sol vessels fired first, it would never be confirmed either way.

2180 AD/ 76 BBY: The war reached the first Sol colony to be attacked since the Vaggari incursion of 2132. A Chiss fleet destroyed the colony of Hyperion.

2182 AD/ 74 BBY: The Confederacy 2nd Fleet attack a Chiss staging point, destroying it with the improved Mass Accelerator cannons on the Defender class Cruisers. The Chiss retaliate by attacking another Sol colony, Terra Nova.

2186 AD/ 70 BBY: The First Confederacy/Chiss War ends with neither side gaining any territory. A tense Cold War sets in between the Humans and Chiss.

2187 AD/ 69 BBY: The Sol Navy deploys new weapons on the experimental Dreadnought class Battleship. It mounts two improved variants of the MA Cannons pioneered on the Phoenix refits. In addition to that, there are 25 dual heavy turbolaser batteries, 20 turbolaser batteries, and 18 Concussion missile launchers, all developed from the tech on the Roswell Freighter.

2189 AD/ 67 BBY: The Sol Fleet launches an attack on a Chiss planet in retaliation for the destruction of a Civilian Convoy that got to close to Chiss territory. This marks the beginning of the Second Confederacy/Chiss War.

2193 AD/ 63 BBY: The Battle of Arcadia begins, with the Chiss 2nd fleet attacking the first Human Colony. The Sol 3rd and 4th Fleets respond to the attack, forcing the Chiss back, thanks to deploying the Dreadnoughts for the first time.

2195 AD/ 61 BBY: The Second Confederacy/Chiss War ends, with the Confederacy taking some of the border territory. The Chiss withdraw into their own space, and the two sides ignore each other for the most part, with a neutral area in between their respective areas.

2200 AD/ 56 BBY: The Confederacy sends diplomats to the Chiss Ascendancy to try and work out an alliance. The reason being some incursions by Republic ships. This first contact with the greater Galaxy frightened the Government back on Earth, as they still hadn’t fully recovered from the previous wars.

2202 AD/ 54 BBY: The Confederacy/Chiss Alliance is formed, thanks in no small part to the fact that both sides had entirely new people in charge. James Smith is born on Earth.

2225 AD/ 31 BBY: The Dreadnoughts are retired from active service. The Confederacy replaces them with the Missouri Class Battleships, while the rest of the fleet is upgraded by Arcadia class Cruisers, Hyperion class Destroyers, and Cestus class Frigates. Newly minted Captain Smith is given command of the Enterprise, the first of the Arcadia class.

2229 AD/ 27 BBY: The joint Confederacy/Chiss 1st Task Force encounters the Outbound Flight Project. Commander Thrawn of the Chiss portion wants to destroy it. But Captain Smith allows the ship to pass through Confederacy space on the way to the edge of the Galaxy. This would have resulted in a break in relations between the Allies, if it weren’t for the fact that the Chiss didn’t like Thrawn anymore than Smith did.

2234 AD/ 22 BBY: The Clone Wars begin in the Galaxy. Both the Confederacy and the Chiss stay neutral, since the Republic barely even knows of their existence. Liza Fisher is born on Arcadia.

2237 AD/ 19 BBY: The Clone Wars end, and the Republic is reformed into the Galactic Empire. The Confederacy/Chiss Alliance watches this development closely. The Confederacy reaches its height, with 500 systems under its direct control, with thousands more allied with it.

2256 AD/ 0BBY: The start of the story.

Well there it is. If any one has any suggestions (wanting to see tech sheets of the various ships, more detail, etc.) or wants to be in the story just ask.

[Simon_Jester]

Ummm... well.

Personally, I feel you can have good stories featuring Star Wars that handwave the "ohmigod thirty millenia of technology to reverse engineer LOL normal humans would be squashed even with centuries of prep time" issue. But you might have trouble with that here.

One problem you have is the traditionally very isolationist politics of the Chiss, and the intense fetish they have for never striking first. You'll be hard pressed to justify that, characterwise.

[atg]

One problem you have is the traditionally very isolationist politics of the Chiss, and the intense fetish they have for never striking first. You'll be hard pressed to justify that, characterwise.

Perhaps the isolationist/non agression policies of the Chiss could be due to these wars with the Sol Confederacy? I think the earliest establishment of Chiss policy as being isolationist/non-aggressive is in the Outbound Flight novel, so it could be made to fit this timeline. i.e. Chiss start wars with Sol Confederacy, get beaten, isolationist factions in Chiss politics come to power.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Personally, I feel you can have good stories featuring Star Wars that handwave the "ohmigod thirty millenia of technology to reverse engineer LOL normal humans would be squashed even with centuries of prep time" issue. But you might have trouble with that here.

One problem you have is the traditionally very isolationist politics of the Chiss, and the intense fetish they have for never striking first. You'll be hard pressed to justify that, characterwise.

Well, I realize that it would normally be impossible for Earth Humans to reverse engineer SW tech. That being said, most of the stuff they started with shouldn't have been that hard. We are already developing Ion engines (Dawn spacecraft) we already are starting with small scale plasma tech (shields and possibly turbolasers(since we don't know exactly how those work) could come from that). The only thing they had a real problem with was the hyperdrive. I don't like just handwaving all of the difficulties away, but it is the only way this story would work so... yeah. As for the isolationist Chiss view... I like the reply after yours on that front, but if that isn't enough, remember when the First Confederacy/Chiss started? It was a group of Sol ships exploring an unclaimed system on the border of Chiss space. While the Confederacy claims the Chiss fired first, the Chiss denied that. No one knows which side is telling the truth, but in this case it is more likely the Chiss. Hope that explains things.

[Crayz9000]

Well, another potential issue you may have is that you've set Earth in the SW galaxy, which has already been established to be 120,000 LY across and is a pure spiral galaxy. The Milky Way is only 100,000 LY across and is a barred spiral -- a totally different galactic structure. On top of that, we already know where we sit in the galaxy pretty well, and it would be a bit of a stretch to say that we were in the Unknown Regions, since we're about 20,000 LY Coreward from the edge; that would place Earth pretty firmly in the Outer Rim or Mid Rim territories.

As far as the Chiss/Confederacy conflict goes, I would explain it as an unfortunate accident...

[Skywalker_T-65]

^Yeah, I'm well aware of the astronomy issues here...I have done research on this after all. I am keeping some of the real life astronomy (colonies in Epsilon Eridani/Indi, Tau Ceti, and Alpha Centuari) though. It will be hard to reconcile that with what we know about the Milky Way, but if this story has any chance of taking off I need to somehow.

Yeah it would be a bit of a stretch (understatement I realize that...) to say we aren't in the Outer-Mid Rim. My way around that is somewhat simple...we don't have a definite fix on exactly where the Unknown Regions really are. To put it more simply, the Regions aren't necessarily further out than the Rim, its possible that they could be roughly equal with the Outer Rim distance from the Core wise. Now I don't have any definite proof on that, and if I'm wrong feel free to call me out on it. But it is the only real way that this could work sadly. Aside from that, what do you think about the timeline? And this is precisely why I posted this here and not Force.net or FF.net, I can get genuinely good criticism, which will only help me.

As for the Chiss/Confederacy Wars...I've only shown the Sol view of the conflict...what's too say the Chiss don't view it different. For all we know (from what I've shown so far) they might just view it as a border skirmish (I have to thank Eternal Freedom for that idea) and they only stopped the Wars since they didn't want to bother with them anymore...

[Simon_Jester]

Well, another potential issue you may have is that you've set Earth in the SW galaxy, which has already been established to be 120,000 LY across and is a pure spiral galaxy. The Milky Way is only 100,000 LY across and is a barred spiral -- a totally different galactic structure. On top of that, we already know where we sit in the galaxy pretty well, and it would be a bit of a stretch to say that we were in the Unknown Regions, since we're about 20,000 LY Coreward from the edge; that would place Earth pretty firmly in the Outer Rim or Mid Rim territories.

As far as the Chiss/Confederacy conflict goes, I would explain it as an unfortunate accident...

Eh, that's easy enough to handwave. No one reasonable will flip out at "WE KNOW WE DON'T LIVE IN THAT GALAXY!" At least, not if they didn't already flip out at "But it was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away!"

Replicating a handful of stars very near Sol and just dropping them into the Star Wars galaxy really won't hurt anything.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Well, thanks for all the feedback. I am working on the first chapter now, and hopefully I can have it up soon, and you can all mock my lack of writing skill . Just kidding, I can write...not on the level of Mike or Stravo...but lets be honest here, no one expects that out of me, since if you do your being crazy.

To tide anyone who cares over until then, I worked up some quick tech sheets on the main Confederacy ships, bear in mind though, that I worked these up in like five minutes. If there is anything you feel is wrong with them just point it out and I'll either explain it (if it needs to stay) or change it. I'll also add more detail if you want it. That is all...heres the tech sheets:

___________________________________________________
Cestus Class Frigate:

Length: 400 meters

Width: 175 meters

Crew: 1,500

Sensors: Unknown range

Hyperdrive: Class 3

Powerplant: Hypermatter reactor

Armor: Durasteel

Shields: On par with Dreadnaught class cruisers

Weapons: 12 heavy turbolasers, 25 quad laser cannons, 10 point-defense cannons, 1 small Mass Accelerator cannon.

Appearance: Diamond shaped hull, with dark green color scheme. The bridge tower resembles that of the Archangel from Gundam SEED.
________________________________________________________________
Hyperion Class Destroyer:

Length: 850 meters

Width: 425 meters

Crew: 2,240

Sensors: Range unknown

Hyperdrive: Class 3

Powerplant: Hypermatter reactor

Armor: Durasteel

Shield: Primary shield on par with older Victory I’s.

Weapons: 25 heavy turbolasers, 30 quad laser cannons, 20 point defense cannons, 10 concussion missile launchers, 1 medium MAC (not to be confused with the Halo variant)

Appearance: Wedge shaped hull (as in an actual wedge, not a dagger like an ISD). The bridge is a bump on the top, like the Providence class.
_________________________________________________________
Arcadia Class Cruiser:

Length: 1,300 meters

Width: 400 meters

Crew: 3,200

Sensors: Range unknown

Hyperdrive: Class 2

Powerplant: Hypermatter reactor

Armor: Durasteel

Shield: Primary shield on par with Victory II class.

Weapons: 35 dual heavy turbolaser batteries, 20 turbolasers, 50 point-defense cannons, 2 MAC’s, and an experimental plasma torpedo launcher.

Appearance: Looks like a typical Star Destroyer, but without the point, and slimmed down. In other words, it is more streamlined; it lacks the terraces of the Victory/Imperator, but shares the overall shape. The slimmed down bow holds the tips of both MAC’s.
___________________________________________________
Missouri Class Battleship:

Length: 2.4 Kilometers

Width: 700 meters

Crew: 35,000

Sensors: Range unknown

Hyperdrive: Class 1 (the first Sol class to have one)

Powerplant: Hypermatter reactor

Shields: Primary, secondary and tertiary shields.

Armor: Durasteel, reinforced with neutronium.

Weapons: 70 Dual heavy turbolaser batteries, 50 turbolasers, 120 Point-Defense Cannons, 2 heavy MAC’s, two experimental Plasma torpedo launchers.

Appearance: Long arrowhead shaped hull (think ISD, but with two prongs on the back enveloping the engines). The bridge is a tower like on the Imperator, but without the sensor domes, and with a more streamlined design.
______________________________

Like I said, I worked these up in a few minutes, so feel free to call me out on anything. It will help me make them better. I'll also explain anything that is asked of me. Just don't ask me to draw them...I can't draw to save my life (or model, even if I had the software).

[Simon_Jester]

Don't worry too much about the stat lines and filler text and timelines. If you can create compelling characters people are a lot more likely to root for your story, and that's far more challenging than "define what a space battleship is armed with."

People sometimes make the mistake of reading a popular series' tech bible and assuming that that is the important part of getting a story right...

[Mayabird]

Yes. More story, less fluff. A lot of people get too caught up in the numbers and I don't like that. It turns into puttering over details that won't be important at all and prevents actual writing. These details wouldn't even come up unless some character starts needlessly infodumping and nobody likes that.

I also greatly dislike people who post nothing but pages of stats without any accompanying story. Not to be as mean to you as this will sound, but I couldn't care less how many pew pews your ships can make as an abstract theoretical. If your guys are trying to crank all the pews pews possible out of their little babies because they're outnumbered fifty to one and can't escape, then I care and will cheer them on.

But yes, bring on the first chapter! (Please proofread first, at least a spellcheck and quick scan over to remove the most egregious and obvious typos. My parents were both English teachers at one point so I was trained to go into angry blargle mode at terrible text; growing up in georgia and being on the internet has not helped matters. Thanks!)

[Simon_Jester]

To be fair, I think he wanted to bounce this past people as a sanity check before beginning to write, and I can't blame him.

Is that an acceptable use of User Fiction, if it's kept within reason? I was never really sure, myself. Is it 'fics only' or is shop talk about fics, from the author's point of view of "will this work?" part of the purpose of this forum?

For members of the Writer's Guild, of course, that private group can serve the purpose, but for general public use?

[Skywalker_T-65]

Heh…should have expected something like that…I’ll admit I’m something of a techie and thinking up designs helps get the creative juices flowing. The main reason I put this up was so it would help visualize the ships later, and the Missouri’s triple layer shielding will be important in the story.

That being said, I don’t think you were being mean, its valid criticism and I like getting that. As long as people don’t flame me for no apparent reason I actually prefer them to not pull their punches, it helps me improve (of course I don't want to be flamed... who would...). I’m not like the typical fanfiction writer who will run off and cry in a corner when people flame my story.

I’ll readily admit I used to be like that, but actually posting stuff on SD.net has cleansed that part out of me. Luckily for me on the story front, most of the compliments I get on other websites when I post stuff are for one of two things…my OC’s or my plotlines. I’m hoping I can keep up the trend here.

And another post was made while I typed this...must stop being so long winded...though you hit the nail on the head there. I mostly posted this (and the timeline for that matter) to make sure what I'm writing isn't so far out there that it would be pointless to post.

Okay, that’s enough talking, must get back to typing the chapter…

[Simon_Jester]

Tech bible work is fine in mitigation- just don't let it become a substitute for characterization. Arguably you should force yourself to stop after every thousand words of tech bible and write a thousand words of character sketch, "day in the life" vignettes, and so on... just to get a feel for the people who will live the story.

[Mayabird]

I'm fine with people discussing ideas and how tos and even posting tech manuals and pages of statistics in Fics, but if someone considers the latter to be a substitute for a story (or even worse, the actual story - this has happened) then I get melodramatically wrathful. Fortunately I don't think that'll be a problem here.

[Crayz9000]

The only comment I'll make on the stats is that if those classes of ships were introduced before the Clone Wars, I wouldn't expect them to be able to stand up to comparable Republic (much less Imperial) warships. It's one thing for them to have large reactors, hulls and crews, but keep in mind that when the Chiss encountered Outbound Flight in EU canon, their technology was barely at Republic levels and in many cases was just different (ship-mounted charrics instead of turbolasers, etc).

I could certainly see the Confederation watching the Clone Wars closely and then buying up surplus technology afterward, which they then use to bring their ships up to a galactic level. But not before.

[Simon_Jester]

That makes a lot of sense.

The sheer volume of Clone Wars equipment (much of which is designed to be used by a wide range of alien species) makes it a good choice for anyone who's trying to upgrade their military in the 20-10 BBY period. Who knows? You might even try to get it from both sides...

[Skywalker_T-65]

The only comment I'll make on the stats is that if those classes of ships were introduced before the Clone Wars, I wouldn't expect them to be able to stand up to comparable Republic (much less Imperial) warships. It's one thing for them to have large reactors, hulls and crews, but keep in mind that when the Chiss encountered Outbound Flight in EU canon, their technology was barely at Republic levels and in many cases was just different (ship-mounted charrics instead of turbolasers, etc).

I could certainly see the Confederation watching the Clone Wars closely and then buying up surplus technology afterward, which they then use to bring their ships up to a galactic level. But not before.

Yeah they were introduced before the Clone Wars (31 BBY to be precise, so only a few years pre-Wars), but taking into account that even their most 'advanced' tech (turbolasers, concussion missiles, etc.) was based on a 300 year old freighter, they aren't any where near the main galaxy. There is a reason they went running to the Chiss, they saw what the Republic had (and that was pre-Palpy Republic) and knew their ships didn't stand a chance. That being said, the Confederacy has been upgrading their ships, and sending out scouts to find new tech. They won't use very many Republican or CIS designs, but they will take advantage of the tech.

As for not being galactic level beforehand, you can see that in their weapons. The main weapon on all the ships is a Magnetic Accelerator Cannon. That's also why they have multilayer shields, they designed them with MAC's in mind, since no amount of armor would stop one of those shells. That shows their turbolasers are woefully inadequate for the job at hand. They have been gathering new tech, but only about half the fleet has the upgrades yet, so they aren't in any position to fight the Empire, even if they had the numbers to do it.

Okay, enough tech talk, I'm almost done with the chapter so I need to get back to that . Which reminds me, should I use this thread (just re-name it) for the actual story, or should I start a new one?

[Skywalker_T-65]

As the new name shows, I decided to keep this thread around as a way to discuss the story proper. Which reminds me...how did I do on the first chapter? That was more talking than I'm used to writing, so I need to know if I did it well. Plus I need to know if there is anything I need to improve on. So please, let me know what you all thought of the first chapter so I can either keep it up, or improve on it.

[Mayabird]

That's not how we do it on this forum. The discussions are in the same thread as the stories.

Sorry, but I'll have to lock this now. I'll put a link to this thread in the story one.