The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by impatrick4life » 2010-08-30 06:43am

GrayAnderson wrote:My general interpretation had always been that Pilate didn't want to kill Jesus, but that the priests at the Temple (who had just had a royally bad week with Jesus turning over the tables and whatnot) wanted him moved against and stirred up a street mob to try and twist Pilate's arm. Pilate seems to be looking for an excuse not to kill Jesus (the way he asks the questions at least comes across that way, though knowing Latin constructions the Vulgate might be more informative on this...by the way, this is also probably why most questions seem to have a yes/no answer expected: All Latin questions tended to be this way), but between the mob and Jesus' silence ends up taking no action (and effectively letting the Temple priests have their way).

Note importantly that Pilate fails to find him guilty of anything, and that the same is true of Herod. It's always seemed to me to be a case of "You convict him!" "No, you convict him!" "Will somebody please convict this man! No? Fine, I give up! This isn't my problem."
Ordinarily, IIRC, Pilate wasn't an easily swayed man. However, his patron in Rome, Sejanus (prefect of the Praetorian Guard, actually), was executed in AD 31. He was pretty much at the mercy of the Jews for a while - ticking them off too much could lead to his downfall by political fiat from Rome.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Dartz » 2010-08-30 10:47pm

I was reading this while listening to Iron Maiden's A Matter of Life and Death.

A thought occurred to me, from the Third song on the album, a little rearrangement.

We are not the sons of God,
We are not his chosen people now.
We have crossed the path he trod
He has felt the pain of our beginning.

Somebody's probably mentioned that before... but just in case. It's just a thought. I'm finding it hard to say much more than I enjoyed reading it thoroughly.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Bayonet » 2010-08-31 04:34pm

Edward Yee wrote: We don't even know if Pontius Pilate existed in TSW, much less under that name.
Pilate was a historical figure. According to Wikipedia,
"Pontius Pilatus, Greek: Πόντιος Πιλᾶτος) was the fifth Prefect [Not procurator, as is usually stated] of the Roman province of Judaea from AD 26–36. Typically referenced as the fifth Prefect of Judaea,"
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate )
His rule was brought to an end through trouble which arose in Samaria. An imposter had given out that it was in his power to discover the sacred vessels which, as he alleged, had been hidden by Moses on Mount Gerizim, whither armed Samaritans came in large numbers. Pilate seems to have thought the whole affair was a blind, covering some other more important design, for he hurried forces to attack them, and many were slain. They appealed to Vitellius, who was at that time legate in Syria, saying that nothing political had been intended, and complaining of Pilate's whole administration. He was summoned to Rome to answer their charges, but before he could reach the city the Emperor Tiberius had died.

That is the last we know of Pilate from authentic sources, but legend has been busy with his name. He is said by Eusebius (Church History II.7), on the authority of earlier writers, whom he does not name, to have fallen into great misfortunes under Caligula, and eventually to have committed suicide. Other details come from less respectable sources. His body, says the "Mors Pilati", was thrown into the Tiber, but the waters were so disturbed by evil spirits that the body was taken to Vienne and sunk in the Rhône, where a monument, called Pilate's tomb, is still to be seen. As the same thing occurred there, it was again removed and sunk in the lake at Lausanne. Its final disposition was in a deep and lonely mountain tarn, which, according to later tradition, was on a mountain, still called Pilatus, close to Lucerne. The real origin of this name is, however, to be sought in the cap of cloud which often covers the mountain, and serves as a barometer to the inhabitants of Lucerne. The are many other legends about Pilate in the folklore of Germany, but none of them have the slightest authority.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Crayz9000 » 2010-08-31 11:58pm

Dartz wrote:I was reading this while listening to Iron Maiden's A Matter of Life and Death.

A thought occurred to me, from the Third song on the album, a little rearrangement.

We are not the sons of God,
We are not his chosen people now.
We have crossed the path he trod
He has felt the pain of our beginning.

Somebody's probably mentioned that before... but just in case. It's just a thought. I'm finding it hard to say much more than I enjoyed reading it thoroughly.
It's kind of funny you mention that. They have some other songs with similar themes, but that one (it's titled Brighter than a Thousand Suns btw) really fits the bill.

Another good one is Heaven Can Wait, off of the Somewhere in Time album. This one wouldn't even need much modification to fit...

4. Heaven Can Wait

Can't understand what is happening to me
This isn't real this is only a dream
But I never have felt, no I never have felt this way before
I'm looking down on my body below
I lie asleep in the midst of a dream
Is it now could it be the Angel of Death has come for me
I can't believe that really my time has come
I don't feel ready there's so much left undone
And it's my soul and I'm not gonna let it get away

[Chorus:]
Heaven can wait / Heaven can wait
Heaven can wait / Heaven can wait 'til another day

I have a lust for the Earth below
And Hell itself is my only foe
'Cause I've no fear of dying
I'll go when I'm good and ready
I snatch a glimpse of the lights eternal rays
I see a tunnel I stand amazed
At all of the people standing there in front of me
Into the paths of rightness I'll be led
Is this the place where the living join the dead
I wish I knew this was only just a nightmare
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Crayz9000 » 2010-09-01 12:16am

Heh. Another song from their newest album, The Final Frontier has a few very apt stanzas:

7. Starblind

...

Starblind - with sun
The stars are one
We are the light that brings the end of night
We are, with the Goddess of the sun tonight

The preacher loses face with Christ
Religion's cruel device is gone
Empty flesh and hallowed bones
Make pacts of love but die alone

Virgins in the teeth of God are meat and drink to feed the damned
You may pass through me and I will feel the life that you live less
Step into my light star tripping, we will rage against the night
Walk away from comfort offered by your citizens of death

Whatever God, you know
He knows you, better than you believe
In your once and future grave
You'll fall endlessly deceived

The crucible of pain will forge
The blanks of sin, begin again
You are free to choose a life to live
Or one that's left to lose
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Stuart » 2010-09-01 10:16am

The Oval Office, The White House, Washington D.C.

"There is no hope of reducing the defense budget?" The President sounded stricken at the news.

"No hope at all, Sir. We're stuck at one-point-six trillion for years to come. The FY11 budget is set in stone and nothing can cut from that. As for FY12, simply controlling the areas we now hold are going to take most of our forces. Look at it this way, Sir, the combined land area of Heaven and Hell are three times the size of Earth. The HEA is the only force keeping both places reasonably stable at this time. How long that will be for is anybody's guess. Secretary Warner shook his head. As usual, the politicians had thought the Army would crash in, defeat the enemy and the problems would all be over. Why would they never understand that defeating an enemy was just that start of a long and complicated situation? He knew all too well what the basic problems were. The armed forces had made defeating the enemy look so easy that the politicians assumed that all the other problems would be equally easy to resolve.

"But we have social programs, essential reforms that have been delayed by the war . . . ." The President was genuinely dismayed at the apparently inevitable prospect of virtually his entire domestic program being flushed.

"Sir, when we got into the Salvation War, we assumed that it was going to last for decades and we geared up for that prospect. We've mobilized our economy and we're on a war footing. Our industry is structured around supplying the armed forces, not just ours but other people's as well, with what they need. We start slashing orders now, we'll bring about an economic depression that's unparalleled in our history. Forget about breadlines and soup kitchens, they'll be for the better off. The ones who keep their jobs. The rest won't even have those provisions to fall back on. We have to ease back, slowly and carefully. That's assuming the situation in Heaven and Hell lets us do even that."

A depressed sigh ran around the room. "You expect more trouble then?"

"Yes, Madam Secretary. The sheer shock of the daemonic defeat in Hell is wearing off down there. In some ways we're to blame for that. The daemons were expecting us to overrun Hell with fire and sword. They thought we would massacre them all. Instead, we were pretty nice to them We fed them, looked after them, protected them. Now, I'm not saying that's wrong and I will say that it has eased a lot of our problems. I'd say about seventy percent of the surviving daemons look on us pretty favorably. Another twenty five percent actively like us and want to learn from us."

"That leaves just five percent." The President pounced on the figure.

"Five percent, Sir. They're swallowed up by hatred for us and a desire to hurt us. They see our treatment of them now that they are in our power as an example of weakness. They think they can exploit that and they're right. To some extent, our hands are tied in dealing with them. If we go after them no-hold's barred, we'll alienate the ones who do support us. We learned a lot of lessons in Iraq along those lines. But Heaven's the real problem. It's strange but it's the humans there that we're worried about. The Jell . . . the angels appear to be pretty quiet. They haven't got the suicidal guts the daemons have that's for sure. But their human servants seem a lot more aggressive. We've had stone throwing incidents already.

"But for all that, it's Hell that we're really worried about. We've had word that there is a resistance movement staring up in Hell, possibly headed by Belial."

"That wretched Baldrick tasks us." The President's voice was tinged with bitterness.

"He's escaped us twice and all the reports we've had, from Heaven and Hell, stress that his hatred for us is surpassed only by that he has for Euryale. I wouldn't like to be in her hooves if he gets hold of her. The point is, Mister President, we have a massive peacekeeping problem that has no easily-visible end to it." Warner paused to take breath, "and to make matters worse, we have no real idea what is out there. We've only explored a tiny proportion of the land surface of Hell and even less of Heaven. There could be entire civilizations out there we haven't even spotted yet.

"And that brings us to another problem. We know that there are other bubble-worlds in the new universe we have stumbled into. Some of their occupants have been on Earth in earlier days and either got run off by Yahweh and Satan or decided that we weren't worth the effort of staying here for. Michael-Lan mentioned the Aesir and the Baals, we also have cause to believe that the Olympian pantheon has some foundation in reality. We know that Heaven and Hell were virtually stagnant but can we be sure that those others are? Might they have developed with the same speed as we have? If so they could be most formidable opponents."

"If they are opponents." Secretary Clinton made the point uncharacteristically tentatively.

"That's right Hillary. They may well be benign; the stories about them certainly suggest they might be but how can we be sure. And if there is a basis of truth behind them, there might also be behind other pantheons. We wouldn't, for example, like to run into the Aztec pantheon unprepared would we?"

There was a general shaking of heads at that. The President sighed. "One point six trillion it is then. Hillary, what's the feeling at Yamantau on this."

"Much the same as Defense has outlined Sir. Too many responsibilities, too many potential and actual enemies, too many unknowns. All the other fourteen members are agreed, our present force levels have to be maintained, probably for at least a decade."

The President's air of general depression deepened. "Does the United Nations have much to say about that?"

Clinton smiles sadly at him. "Have you been there recently Sir? I wouldn't be surprised if there are tumbleweeds blowing around the main assembly room. The U.N. just doesn’t count for much any more, not the main body of it anyway. Yamantau has taken its functions over almost completely. That's not surprising though. It's a much better war headquarters after all. Fifteen members can actually get things done. We have less to consider there as well. If a country wants to bring up an issue, it has to get one of the fifteen to present it for them. If they can't convince one country of the virtues of their case, they shouldn't be bothering people with it.

"Having said all that, the U.N. special agencies are healthy. UNESCO, World Bank, World Health Organization are all prospering. So much so that a couple of them are talking of changing their names to make the 'world' bit plural. The UNHCR is coordinating the rescue of people from the Hell Pit. But, for all that, as a policy-deciding organization, the U.N. has been sidelined. After all, in the final analysis, Yamantau has a massive army to back up its decisions. I have no doubt that Yamantau will change in the future but here and now, it's the best approach to a world government we've got."

"Damn." The President's word seemed strangely archaic, as if it belonged to a different era. It did, of course, that was all too true. Whole classes of expletives had become obsolete over the last two years and few had grown up to replace them. Not yet, anyway. "How are we going to pay for all this?"

"It's much worse than just the amount by which we are overspending." Timothy Geithner sounded almost amused by the depth of gloom in his own voice. "The ban on deceased First-Life people leaving their assets to themselves to fund their Second Life failed to get past the Senate. In fact, they voted it down 94 – 5 with one abstention. We should have anticipated that Mister President."

This time, Geithner's voice held disapproval and there was no trace of amusement in it. In his opinion, the President had committed the worst political sin of all; he had put both his personal credibility and the stature of his office into fighting a battle he wasn't quite certain he would win. As a result, he had turned what would otherwise been a minor administrative matter, or at least something that could be spun as one, into a major defeat for his presidency. Geithner suspected that the resulting political blow was mortal.

"But it was the right thing to do. And the assets the dead are taking with them are bleeding resources from our economy."

"That doesn't matter Mister President. Really it doesn't. What does matter is that opinions on the legislation were split down the middle by age. The older people were, the more they wanted freedom to take some or all of their First-Life assets with them. The younger people were, the more they saw those assets as their inheritance. Virtually the entire administration are in the former group. They saw this legislation as an attack on them. Frankly, Mister President, the Senate throwing this legislation out was probably a good thing. If they hadn't, I suspect the Supreme Court would have tossed it out. That would have been even more embarrassing.

"That leaves us with the problem of course. My Department is working on a proposal for a death tax, one that should stand up to constitutional scrutiny provided it stops short of total confiscation. Death taxes are an accepted part of the portfolio so applying them should be no problem. If we make the tax applicable only to the monies that a person takes into their Second Life, I think it might be a compromise people will accept. The First Lifers will still get an inheritance and the Second Lifers still get their seed money."

"What about a flow of resources from Heaven and Hell?"

"Heaven is pretty much a bust Sir. Thomas Vilsack sounded regretful. "They really haven't got much that we want other than agricultural produce and most of the production there is used to keep The Eternal City fed. A city that size is a massive liability and resources sink. If we take any significant level of their present production, we'll start a famine."

"I though angels and daemons didn’t need to eat."

"They don’t need to eat for regular sustenance meaning they won’t starve the way we do if deprived of food. As far as we can make out, they do need to eat if their energy consumption goes beyond a specific level. Then, the nourishment they get from food makes up the difference." Doctor Surlethe frowned, "but there's still so much we don’t understand about this."

"As for Hell, we are getting resources from there." Vilsack sounded pleased about that. "Oil particularly; Hell is absurdly oil-rich. The bottleneck is refining the stuff."

"Let me guess." The President lifted a finger in the traditional gesture of sudden enlightenment. "Gaius Julius Caesar is building an oil refinery."

A laugh ran around the room. "Yes Sir, he is. In fact, he was the first person to start building one. He's in partnership with Sunoco on that. If it's any consolation, things aren't going entirely smoothly there. The idea was to build some parts in New Rome and bring others in from Earth. Only, there's problems matching the parts up. Hell-built and Earth-built don’t go well together. Anyway, we are getting crude from there and a lot of valuable minerals as well."

"There's one good thing Sir." Kathleen Sebelius spoke up, grimly determined to be cheerful. "Health care costs are showing a marked decline. It's the big ticket items that are showing the largest fall. Now people know what lies after death, they aren't fighting it so hard. Rather than use massively expensive treatment to delay their death by a few days or weeks, they're now letting go. Why live for a few months hooked up to tubes and meters and suffering every day of that time when one can go to Hell – or even Heaven – and have a healthy reborn body?"

"What about the costs of treating refugees from the Hell-Pit."

"Not high Sir. Most of the work there is done by volunteers and the dead ones don’t need to eat of course. So, its lower than one might think. However, there is a long-term problem here in that some of the refugees are in really bad shape. Hell wasn't a very kind place Sir."

"Do we know why people go to Heaven rather than Hell?" The President was curious.

"No." Doctor Surlethe rather wished the subject hadn't come up. "We have only a very thin trickle of new bodies turning up in Heaven, one or two a day at most. We can identify no pattern behind their selection. It seems to be completely random. At the moment, the Army unit we have stationed at the Heavenly Gates is looking after them. Actually, they're shipping them to the reception center at Hell and processing them like all the others when they wake up. We're watching the ones that came back through Heaven of course; but at the moment we're showing nothing of any significance. Which leaves us with the problem of who lives in Heaven and who stays in Hell."

"Sort of related to that, I've placed a moratorium on the use of the death penalty." Eric Holder had a degree of defiance in his voice. "I can't see that it performs any useful function at this time. Life imprisonment without possibility of parole remains a viable punishment. Keeping a person locked up for the rest of their life is a penalty all right. But killing them just gives another escape route. They get away with their offence cold and just get to start their Second Life a little earlier."

"We could always arrange to meet them when they get reborn and whack them again."

Raymond LaHood made that suggestion tentatively yet it caused Holder to bristle and respond aggressively. "That would be an unconstitutional exercise of double jeopardy as well as being morally reprehensible. I will not allow it."

"Moderate your tone Eric." The President spoke calmly. "Raymond has a valid point even if you disagree with it. Do we carry over offenses committed in the First Life to people in their Second Lives? And Eric, the Cabinet has collective responsibility. It allows or disallows things, not you. When we reach a decision on that issue, you can either support that decision or resign. I trust I make myself clear?"

Holder nodded, resentfully and reluctantly. The President looked at his and nodded slightly before continuing. "That issue also gives rise to a related one. What happens when one of the great monsters of history is found? Pol Pot died quite recently I believe; he may well turn up quite soon. And what about Hitler? Or Idi Amin?"

"We're been really lucky." General Schatten, the new Director of Celestial Intelligence spoke firmly. "So far, the issue hasn't come up. Most of the people we've recovered have been common people, very few of any distinction have re-appeared. Partly that may be because the rings we are emptying fastest, the first ring for example where they starved in a desolate wasteland or the second where they were either blown about by great winds or pushed giant rocks around, were the easiest to get people out of. The rings get progressively harder to explore and recover as we go down and I suspect that the more distinguished of our ancestors are down there. We do have evidence that a certain degree of private vengeance is already taking place though. When Belial's fortress fell, one of his human assistants was an SS guard from Majdanak concentration camp. An Israeli officer, most of whose family died in that camp, took him away and is believed to have killed him. Again. Both we and the Israelis are trying to find him but no luck so far."

"A nightmare lies that way." Hillary Clinton spoke reflectively, her voice penetrating the silence that had dominated the room. "We go after people, our enemies come after ours, we could end up fighting a war that will kill us all. Haven't enough people died in this war already?"

That caused the silence to deepen. The death toll from the Salvation War was indeed enough. Millions of humans were dead, almost all civilians. The death toll in the daemons and angels was much, much greater. Most of their dead had been warriors, victims of the massive disparity in sheer, raw firepower that had dominated the war. From a military point of view, it was true that the humans had shattered their enemies without breaking into a sweat over it. Economically and socially, the cost had been so much higher. Even now, with the super-hurricanes and super-tornados a thing of the past, it would take decades for the south east coast to recover. The dust storms and the tornados had made the great plains a liability, one that would be put right eventually of course but the short term consequences were still there. The United States was actually a net food importer this year and would be next as well. Another economic fact to be considered. And that brought the meeting full circle.

The President walked over to the great windows that dominated the room and stared out at the world beyond. There had been so much he had wanted to do, so much that he had felt needed to be done and none of it was going to happen. He was quite sure of that. In his heart, he guessed that he was a one-term President and his time in office was already more than half done. It would be for others to take up the dreams he had nurtured and turn them into reality. It would be years before that could happen, the briefing he had just received made that painfully clear.

Ideals and dreams could be gods as well. They were a part of a pantheon just as much as the more tangible 'gods' had been. This had been a war where the human war machine had ruthlessly killed all the gods that had stood in its path. The Pantheon of ideals and dreams had proved no more resilient than the rest.
Last edited by Stuart on 2010-09-01 02:38pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Mr Bean » 2010-09-01 10:32am

I can see it now
Book 3
After war comes the peace, and what a terrible peace it was.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by PaperJack » 2010-09-01 10:56am

will the 3rd book be posted here on the forums
or it will be only on paperback ?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Mayabird » 2010-09-01 10:56am

Complete or is there going to be a second epilogue or something more?

Is the rest of the Yamantau council going to keep their military spending up as well?

...And, I just dislike the flat out mentioning of the random people trickling into Heaven. Would've been nice if there was a really brief scene at the beginning of someone bored (maybe even Peter) standing by the gate there, having been there for hours, and getting really excited because "it's another one!"
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Stuart » 2010-09-01 11:09am

PaperJack wrote:will the 3rd book be posted here on the forums or it will be only on paperback ?
It'll should be posted here unless the publisher forbids it. I don't see that happening.
Mayabird wrote:Complete or is there going to be a second epilogue or something more?
This is it. The last line rounds off the story.
Is the rest of the Yamantau council going to keep their military spending up as well?
Yes; that was the point. Nobody has really any choice other than to do that,
.And, I just dislike the flat out mentioning of the random people trickling into Heaven. Would've been nice if there was a really brief scene at the beginning of someone bored (maybe even Peter) standing by the gate there, having been there for hours, and getting really excited because "it's another one!"
This is an epilogue remember, a sort of coda to the whole novel. It sort of wraps things up and ties a neat bow on what has happened in the main body. I actually have a scene much as you describe pencilled in for the start of the next book.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Simon_Jester » 2010-09-01 11:32am

Stuart wrote:
.And, I just dislike the flat out mentioning of the random people trickling into Heaven. Would've been nice if there was a really brief scene at the beginning of someone bored (maybe even Peter) standing by the gate there, having been there for hours, and getting really excited because "it's another one!"
This is an epilogue remember, a sort of coda to the whole novel. It sort of wraps things up and ties a neat bow on what has happened in the main body. I actually have a scene much as you describe pencilled in for the start of the next book.
You had it in this book, at the end of Chapter... 83, I believe:
Stevenson nodded and tried a sip of the moonshine. It was surprisingly good. "Peter, got any more stories about the days in Galilaea?"

"Watch him Colonel." Michael sounded amused. "Peter loves a good story. He'll have you here for hours if you let him."

Stevenson was about to say it didn't matter and that she had plenty of time. Then, suddenly it did matter and she hadn't. Because an unconscious body had emerged through Heaven's Minos Gate and was on the ground.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Mayabird » 2010-09-01 11:35am

*facepalm* How did I miss or forget that?
Is the rest of the Yamantau council going to keep their military spending up as well?
Yes; that was the point. Nobody has really any choice other than to do that,
Just checking.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Eevin » 2010-09-01 12:16pm

Wow! Just wow!
I really like the "war always ends badly" feeling it gives. Even if you win there is always a price. And it gives a nice setup to the next book.
I suppose you'll need a long time to begin "Lord of War", is there a tentative start date? Any suggestion of what to read in the mean time?

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by DKeith2011 » 2010-09-01 12:36pm

Excellent conclusion to an excellent story.

Cant wait to buy these books and read them again.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Eevin » 2010-09-01 12:40pm

Stuart wrote: "As for Hell, we are getting resources from there." Vilsack sounded pleased about that. "Oil particularly; Hell is absurdly oil-rich. The bottleneck is refining the stuff."
And that is the beginning of a new disaster. A lot of third world countries live of selling oil. What will happen to them when the price is un-controlled and the market is full of hell oil?
Stuart wrote: "There's one good thing Sir." Kathleen Sebelius spoke up, grimly determined to be cheerful. "Health care costs are showing a marked decline. It's the big ticket items that are showing the largest fall. Now people know what lies after death, they aren't fighting it so hard. Rather than use massively expensive treatment to delay their death by a few days or weeks, they're now letting go. Why live for a few months hooked up to tubes and meters and suffering every day of that time when one can go to Hell – or even Heaven – and have a healthy reborn body?"
I wonder if this wont cause a serious problem for researchers. There wont be enough money for grants, and if health care is decreasing then there is not much motivation for the pharmaceuticals to invest in treatments for the rich. And then, getting test subjects for experimental trials will be a lot harder. Why risk a painful, not proved medicine when you can just to to second-life and be happy?

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by FDW » 2010-09-01 01:02pm

Now that was a good ending to a good story, I'll be looking forward to the next part of saga when it comes out next year.
Come to Alternatehistory.com, we've got triumphant nazi's, steampunk nazi revolutionary french, president john wayne, president walt disney, america conquers the world, and antarctic civilizations that mordor look civilized. (and did we forget to mention the triumphant nazi's?)

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by dragon » 2010-09-01 01:47pm

One slight typo
The President sighed. "One point six billion it is then. Hillary, what's the feeling at Yamantau on this."
At the start you said trillion.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Hofner1962 » 2010-09-01 02:28pm

First off, really lovely ending. Well done on the whole story.

I know you don't usually want to hear about typos. I am pointing out the following one because it took me awhile to figure out that you meant coast not cost.
Stuart wrote:Even now, with the super-hurricanes and super-tornados a thing of the past, it would take decades for the south east cost to recover.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Commander Xillian » 2010-09-01 02:37pm

So, if suicide is illegal, and punishment for crimes done in the first life can be held against you in the second life...

Is there now jail time for offing yourself?

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Darth Yan » 2010-09-01 03:02pm

Wow, it's over. Wow. It was a fun ride.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Simon_Jester » 2010-09-01 04:23pm

Eevin wrote:And that is the beginning of a new disaster. A lot of third world countries live of selling oil. What will happen to them when the price is un-controlled and the market is full of hell oil?
Many of those same countries have much bigger problems, like a large fraction of their population having died in the Message, too...
Eevin wrote:I wonder if this wont cause a serious problem for researchers. There wont be enough money for grants, and if health care is decreasing then there is not much motivation for the pharmaceuticals to invest in treatments for the rich. And then, getting test subjects for experimental trials will be a lot harder. Why risk a painful, not proved medicine when you can just to to second-life and be happy?
One thing you might see is investment in diseases that are disabling in childhood (since unless Second Life children grow to adulthood on their own, which Stuart has been very ambiguous about, that's one demographic you can't just shuffle off to the Second Life). Also in diseases that make it impractical to have a productive adult life, because the social model that results when the dust from the Salvation War clears is probably going to revolve around laboring in your First Life to build up the seed money to have a comfortable Second Life.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by nobody_really » 2010-09-01 05:15pm

Thank you, Stuart, for a great read and ride. Nice way to set up the issues for the third book.

Boy, the U.S. sure looks boned for the next few decades. Since it looks like Heaven can be primarily agrarian, maybe it can be a chance for a lot more first-lifers to be farmers. Let's see, surface area of a sphere = 4*pi*r2, and for Earth, r ~= 4000 mi. Earth surface area ~= 12.5 * 16,000,000 mi2 ~= 200,000,000 mi2. Heaven arable land should be more than 100,000,000 mi2 = 64,000,000,000 acres. If the U.S. decides to claim 5% of that for itself, that would be 3,200,000,000 acres. If as much as 10% of the U.S. population wanted to be farmers in Heaven, each person could get 100 acres, which should be more than enough to feed themselves and provide enough exports for a comfortable income. Also, if something like that could get working well, the food importation problems should be solved within a year.
Dragon wrote:One slight typo
Stuart wrote:The President sighed. "One point six billion it is then. Hillary, what's the feeling at Yamantau on this."
At the start you said trillion.
I thought he might have switched to Long Scale Names at that point. :) Although I see it's been changed already.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by nobody_really » 2010-09-01 05:26pm

Simon_Jester wrote:One thing you might see is investment in diseases that are disabling in childhood (since unless Second Life children grow to adulthood on their own, which Stuart has been very ambiguous about, that's one demographic you can't just shuffle off to the Second Life).
I could be completely off here, but I remember a post in the Armageddon??? thread after the fetus chapter in which Stuart indicated no one grows older in their second lives. If so, kids are kids forever or until they get killed. I don't know if they would be capable of eventually learning things as well as adults, but in extreme cases, it would really suck.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Eulogy » 2010-09-01 05:29pm

Keep in mind, though, that although the victory comes at great cost, defeat would be infinitely, unacceptably, more costly. War isn't good, but sometimes it's the only choice you have.

On another note, Euryale had better watch her back. Belial's coming after her, and the humans know it. The humans want Belial. Ergo, I would not put it past the humans to use Euryale as bait.

Kids would eventually become adults, Nobody. If if doesn't happen "naturally", then SCIENCE will find a way!
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Four Up

Post by Bayonet » 2010-09-01 06:00pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
Eevin wrote:And that is the beginning of a new disaster. A lot of third world countries live of selling oil. What will happen to them when the price is un-controlled and the market is full of hell oil?
Many of those same countries have much bigger problems, like a large fraction of their population having died in the Message, too...
Is that a problem or an opportunity? Certainly there are fewer impoverished mouths to feed.
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