The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

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The Salvation War: Pantheocide Epilogue Up

Post by Stuart » 2010-08-09 01:41pm

Throne Room, The Ultimate Temple, The Eternal City, Heaven.

"This place is a disgrace." General Ivan Semenovich Dorokhov looked around in barely-veiled disgust. The command group from the Human Expeditionary Army had assembled outside what had one been Yahweh's palace and entered the anteroom. The building was in a serious state of decay, one only partially concealed by the glittering arrays of precious stones. General Dorokhov looked at the iridescent displays with curiosity. "Has the matter of reparations been discussed yet?"

"The Yamantau Council are still evaluating the matter." General Petraeus was also surveying the scene that was unfolding before his party. "I believe they have yet to come to a conclusion. The last thing I heard from them was that reparations were required but how they were to be paid is entirely another matter. Who should pay them is also interesting. Yahweh is undoubtedly the responsible party but he is dead. The rest of the angels seem to be as much of his victims as we were. We all saw that concentration camp."

General Ti Jen-chieh was also inspecting the walls. "I wonder how many peasants and workers died on how many worlds to fill this room with stones." His words were met with a series of nods. Even a cursory inspection of The Eternal City revealed that far more than a single world had been looted to provide the ever-present displays of gleaming gems.

"And what happened to them after death?" General Asanee was more interested in the carving of the woodwork. Her family were carpenters and sculptors who worked in wood and the craftsmanship in the carving interested her. Personally, and admitting to herself that she might be biased in the subject, she thought the carvings were inferior to the ones her brothers produced. The rifle she was carrying was an example of their work. Technically it was an M16A6 chambered for .50 Beowulf but the plastic furniture had been replaced by painstakingly-carved and polished mahogany. It was a superbly elegant weapon.

"That, we should find out. If there is still access to such worlds, then we should go there." General Ti's voice rang with conviction. "Surely if such people survive, we must help remedy the terrible wrongs that have been done to them."

"If such people survive." Asanee noted the qualification. "I suspect we will find that they are extinct and all we can do is honor their memory. As we would have been extinct had our arms not prevailed." She was saddened by that thought. For all humanity's devastating victory in The Salvation War, it had been a closer-run thing than people realized. Had it come just a century earlier, she doubted humanity would have prevailed. Even coming when it did, the balance had been fine indeed. Had the human armies run out of ammunition during the Curbstomp War or if Heaven had followed up with an invasion immediately after the fall of Hell, things might have been different. She shook her head and noted with amusement that the senior generals all around her had fallen into step. Old habits died hard. The sight also amused her on another level; once she had been in command of the guard when a deputation of six senior generals had been visiting the King. Unused to the demands of close order drill, when the order 'face left' had been given, two of the six had faced right. She'd never said anything but simply given every member of the guard an extra 48 hour leave pass for not bursting out laughing.

The doors were flung open in front of them and the command group stalked through them into the throne room beyond. The ritual was familiar and Asanee decided that General Petraeus had been watching when her people performed similar maneuvers. Ahead of them, in the dim, smoke-tinged room, the shadowed figures of angels were kneeling on the floor, waiting for word from the new masters of the Eternal City.

Even in the dim light it was easy to see the destruction that the battle in this room had wrought. Piles of rubble were strewn across the floor, each giving birth to small clouds of dust as the synchronized human footsteps echoed around the room. The walls and ceiling were blackened and stained, great scabs of plaster had been detached and the precious stones that had formed the signature décor of the Eternal City were blasted from their places and charred black. Asanee noted the heavy bunker built unobtrusively in one corner of the great room. By its dimensions and general design, she got the feeling somebody had looked at the bunkers that formed part of the Maginot Line.

"Who are you?" Petraeus's voice pierced the gloom and the pent-up tension in the air. His words were clearly aimed at the five figures sitting on a raised dais at one end of the room. It was a curious structure, truncated somehow as if its top had been cut off.

"I am Michael-Lan. Ruler of the Eternal City." The largest and most beautiful of the angels on the dais answered. Even in the dim light, the angel's face seemed to glow with beauty.

"Not any more." Petraeus snapped the words out, determined not to be impressed by the sights around him or the person he was addressing. "And the others?"

"Gabriel-Lan, Raphael-Lan, Charmeine-Lan and Leilah-Lan. All Chayot Ha Kodesh of the Angelic Host. We, all of us, together with the support of much of the population of the City, deposed Yahweh. With the exception of Yahweh himself, the coup was bloodless."

Petraeus nodded. "Our ruling council has considered your position carefully. I am under orders to advise you that you are to be removed as ruler of Heaven and replaced by another whom I have been authorized to appoint. I am also required to advise you that you are to be held in custody pending our investigations into the nuclear attack on Tel Aviv and the attempted destruction of other cities on Earth."

He saw Michael-Lan nod. "As to the nuclear attacks on your cities, that was not my doing. You took down Napyidaw yourselves; I had no idea there was such a weapon hidden on that cart. I just guessed it was something I should be far away from. As for the others, they were the work of Azrael who was trying to curry favor with Yahweh. He was critically injured in the attack on New York and is being treated in my country estate. For removing me from power, I thank you. The burdens of rule are onerous and its costs are great. All I ever wanted was to run my nightclub in peace. Even to achieve that simple goal, Yahweh had to go . . . . "

He was interrupted by a massive road as a huge section of battered wall detached and crashed down. A choking cloud of dust filled the room, stifling any further attempts at conversation until it settled. As it did so, Petraeus saw an angel shake himself clear of the debris, re-assemble his workers and start to clear the floor again. "And who are you?"

The dust-ridden figure shook himself to free some of the plaster grit from his wing-feathers. "I am Zacharael-Lan, Master-Mason of the Ultimate Temple."

"And just what do you think you are doing?"

"I am trying to get this room repaired from the damage Yahweh caused . . . . " The Master Mason hesitated, uncertain of the form of address to use. In the end he decided to keep going. "He always wrecked the place when he had a temper tantrum but I've never seen it this bad."

"Why are you fixing this place? Yahweh's dead."

"Somebody must rule. Whoever does, it is my duty to repair this place. Duty done well is it's own reward."

Petraeus glanced around at the other Generals with him and got tiny nods in response. "More reward than you think. I'm putting you in charge of Heaven for the meantime. How long you stay there depends on you. Just remember, when we say jump, the correct reply is not 'how high?' It's 'may I come down now please?" He looked at the existing occupants of the dais and jerked his thumb at the doors. "You other five, out. Wait for us in the anteroom."

The five Chayot Ha Kodesh rose and left. Petraeus watched them leave, then returned his attention to Zacharael-Lan. "Pick out some people to help you rule this place. Subject to our approval of course. Asanee, I want you to stay here. You're probably the most familiar with this kind of situation of any of us. I'll assign you some additional staff and you report directly to me. Stay in the background but watch Zacharael-Lan carefully."

"Yes, Sir." Asanee hesitated for a brief second. "David, you picked him just to annoy the Freemason's Conspiracy nuts didn't you?"

Petraeus permitted himself a small grin. "Well, that might have had something to do with it. But that crash of masonry was all too convenient from his point of view. I think we ought to keep our Master Mason out where we can watch him very carefully."

Anteroom, The Ultimate Temple, The Eternal City, Heaven.

"I'm so sorry Michael." Charmeine was distressed almost to the point where her tears broke through her carefully-cultivated reserve. "I never thought the humans would throw you out after all you did."

"I did." Michael-Lan spoke cheerfully. "Well, I guessed it was a fifty-fifty chance they would. Them putting Abigor in power down in Hell showed they wanted one of us to rule up here. The question was, who? I hoped it would be me but only a fool substitutes hope for preparation. Remember that people, when planning, don’t forget to allow for a possibility even if it's unpalatable. So if it wasn't going to be me, it would be best, it had to be somebody I approved of. The four of you were out, you're too close to me. Zacharael-Lan was perfect. So, he arranged that collapse and the statement about duty and doing a job well. That human General didn’t know who to choose so it only required that little to push him the right way."

"Suppose he had picked somebody else?" Leilah was keen to learn.

"Then we would have made the transition from Yahweh's rule to whatever comes next as hard and as messy as possible. We'd have made sure whoever was in charge got all the blame and in the end one of us would have come in as a savior and put everything right." Michael glanced over his shoulder. "They're coming, everybody look penitent."

"Michael-Lan. You say you have an estate out in the countryside?" General Petraeus wasn't in any doubt about that.

"I do."

"Take me there. I wish to see this Azrael you mentioned."

"Would you like me to carry you? It would be no burden."

"You lead the way, We'll follow you in the Osprey. Once there, you stay there until we've finished sorting your case out."

"My nightclub." There was genuine pain and anguish in Michael's voice. "I have to run my nightclub."

"Sucks to be you. The same applies to the rest of you. Go to your country estates, stay there. Consider yourselves exiled from The Eternal City until we say otherwise."

"Sir." Leilah spoke diffidently, something quite at odds with the costume she was wearing. "I don’t have a country estate."

"Leilah is only recently raised to the status of Chayot Ha Kodesh," Michael explained. "She was Erelim before and only Chayot Ha Kodesh have country estates. Because of how fast things have happened, her estate was never awarded to her."

Petraeus nodded. "Leilah, you run Michael's nightclub for him. You are allowed to fly to his estate to consult with him on doing that. You may also fly to the others here to meet with them. Understood?"

"Yes, Sir. And thank you."

"Is that wise David?" General Ti spoke very quietly.

"Somebody will be carrying messages, we might as well know who."

Michael's Palace, Aukumea, Heaven

The palace reminded Petraeus of a Greek temple. It was large of course, scaled to Michael's size, but it was pristine white. It was unmarred by the displays of precious stones that were already becoming tasteless and jaded to Petraeus's eyes. Just a large, perfectly-proportioned and perfectly-maintained Greek temple. It was, Patraeus reflected, the first really elegant building he had seen in Heaven. As his V-22 came in to land on the green lawns, he saw the staff running out to welcome Michael home. To his surprise, the humans seemed as enthusiastic as the angels.

"Welcome to Aukumea, General." The accent was distinctively American.

"And you are?"

"Doctor David Gunn. Michael's personal physician."

"That name is familiar."

"I was killed a few years back. Shot outside a women's health clinic. My nurses here, Lee-Ann Nichols and Shannon Lowney were also killed in health clinic shootings. Michael rescued us from Hell and brought us here. Michael says you want to see Azrael?"

"Yes, please." Petraeus hesitated, then spoke awkwardly. "Doctor Gunn, it's good to know things worked out all right for you three in the end."

"Thanks to Michael, yes. And not just for us. In the years before the war started, he spent a lot of his time rescuing humans from Hell. Took a lot of risks doing it as well. Anyway, come with me and I'll show you the patients."

Damn, that's just what we needed. Petraeus thought. Michael turning out to be some sort of Heavenly Schindler. The silver-blooded Pimpernel already. "Doctor, what's the mound over there?"

Gunn laughed. "That is, or rather was, Fluffy. Better known to you as the Scarlet Beast. Disgusting creature, never was properly house-trained. His rider is here as well, very sad case I'm afraid."

"So it is dead. We didn’t know back on Earth. We knew we'd hurt it, that was all. And we were still waiting for the Lamb Beast and the Dragon."

Gunn's laughter redoubled. "You hadn't worked it out then. The Lamb Beast, speaks with the gentleness of a lamb but fights like a dragon? That's Michael. And the ultra-powerful Dragon is, or was, Yahweh himself."

"Doctor, honest question from a soldier to a physician. Where do you stand in all this."

"I'm a doctor, I fix the wounded and sick. If you have any, feel free to bring them to me. Michael saved me from Hell, saved my nurses and every human I know up here. And he's a likeable guy, arrogant as they come of course and conceited like only an angel can be. But he has a lot of charisma and he inspires loyalty in people. Don't know why because the truth is, he doesn’t return it. But, he does inspire it. But for all that, I'm human. A doctor first and then human. That answer your question?"

Petraeus wasn't sure that he did but he nodded anyway.

Gunn opened a door and led him into a clean, aseptic wing of the palace. On one bed was a figure, one that had a glorious mane of red hair spread out around her. She would have been as stunningly beautiful as the rest of the angels were it not for the vacant expression on her face and the tongue hanging out of her mouth. "This is Dumah, General. She rode the Scarlet Beast. I don’t know what you did to her down there but she has massive brain damage. Vital functions are stable, but her coma is probably irrecoverable. Michael is having me look after her until she either dies or recovers."

He led Petraeus to another room. "This is Azrael. Massive fragmentation wounds from missile warheads, recovery very slow. He doesn't know Yahweh is dead yet. Azrael, a human visitor for you."

"Azrael, the nuclear attacks on our cities."

The voice from the wounded angel was slow and gasping. "So? We are at war."

"You organized them? Did Michael know?"

"Know? Him? Of course not. He is a traitor. He refused to push the war home against you. It was left to me. If my plan had worked, I could have replaced him. My human failed me. But Michael betrayed Yahweh and me." Azrael burst into a fit of coughing. "Leave me human, you tire me."
Last edited by Stuart on 2010-09-01 10:19am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Pelranius » 2010-08-09 02:13pm

Very good work as always. Michael didn't seemed to surprised about anything (I imagine that he's got the master mason beholden to him in ways we haven't seen yet).

Does Michael know that Petraeus knows that Zacharael has ambitions? And does Petraeus know that Michael knows that he knows? Intel work can be so much fun sometimes.

I assume that Michael's been with Yahweh from the very beginning?

I wonder what we're going to do with Dumah (I assumed that they'd taken her off "life-support" off screen, so to speak).
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Deebles » 2010-08-09 02:42pm

Wow. Things could hardly be going better for Michael, it seems, which is probably no bad thing visavis heavenly stability. I'm sure Petraeus must still be healthily suspicious that it's all a little too perfect, but once the media get hold of this story, he'll be all but untouchable. It'd take people spilling the beans about the drugs and entrapment to take him down, and from all we've seen so far, there's only a couple of people that are likely to be interested in speaking up about that...

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Kodiak » 2010-08-09 04:25pm

Still something of a crap-shoot as to what Lemuel will say about his dealings with Michael. I think Lemuel could put all the pieces together, but he might choose not to if he feels it's in Heaven's best interests to have these secrets remain secret.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Brovane » 2010-08-09 04:36pm

Deebles wrote:Wow. Things could hardly be going better for Michael, it seems, which is probably no bad thing visavis heavenly stability. I'm sure Petraeus must still be healthily suspicious that it's all a little too perfect, but once the media get hold of this story, he'll be all but untouchable. It'd take people spilling the beans about the drugs and entrapment to take him down, and from all we've seen so far, there's only a couple of people that are likely to be interested in speaking up about that...
I wonder how it is going to play out if he is linked to the rock attack on New York and arranging the dumping of all the other bowls of wrath. From my understanding except for the nukes he organized the rest of the bowls of wraith. He also organized and directed the attacks by Uriel and the attack on Jerusaleum. If people figure out he is the architect for this, his statement that he was just following orders isn't going to cut it.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2010-08-09 05:40pm

The rock attack was (I think) either Raphael or Azrael. Michael was only involved insofar as he was a part of the command structure of heaven. As for Jerusalem, it can be argued that the beasts were directly under the authority of Yaweh. The only stuff Michael can be proven linked to is Myanmar, and as he said 'You threw a nuke at me, what was I supposed to do?'

The nuclear hijacking? Azrael
New York? Raphael
Beasts? Yaweh

All we have on Michael is he's a sneaky bastard and hard to kill. He also happens to be the sole benefactor of humans in heaven AND the man who short-circuited the bloodiest urban assault in history. The only 'evil' thing he's done is to leave a nuclear bomb where we put it instead of bringing it with him into heaven. Even the other angels have only seen him argue against fighting the humans, try and limit casualties, and generally be a decent person.

And who cares if Zeph knows Petraeus suspects him? We don't have infinite options to chose from for leaders of heaven, and all Zeph has to do is act exactly like he was supposed to act.

Edit: You know, I bet there's a big honking library somewhere in Heaven, and I can't wait for Norman and the rest of the DIMO(N) researchers to get to it.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Arachnidus » 2010-08-09 06:14pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote: Edit: You know, I bet there's a big honking library somewhere in Heaven, and I can't wait for Norman and the rest of the DIMO(N) researchers to get to it.
Don't be so sure, mate. Think about how heaven was. Why would anybody make a library? For all we know, Yahweh might not have even allowed it to be made. Besides, most Angels considered scripture to be fact, I don't think they'd have many books to support making a repository.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by The Vortex Empire » 2010-08-09 06:21pm

It seems to me that the Eternal City would really be quite a pisshole. As Arachnidus pointed out, there wouldn't be any libraries or universities, since they didn't care about knowledge. The city looks nice on first glance, but it's really falling apart from age and just covered with gems. There's no real industry (although somebody has to be making all the armor and weapons). The entire city is pretty much useless to us.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Simon_Jester » 2010-08-09 06:30pm

I don't know. It's a literate society, so I strongly suspect they have archives, if nothing else. They may mostly boil down to "and this is how many tons of marble we took from this site at that time," but they're likely to be there.

And there might well be historical records lying around; no one said angels couldn't have hobbies after all. The closest analogies to Heaven in real life are the "oriental despotism" states of the Bronze and early Iron Age, with god-kings and monumental architecture; such societies generally did have some kind of royal archive even if we wouldn't think of it as an archive.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Brovane » 2010-08-09 07:11pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The rock attack was (I think) either Raphael or Azrael. Michael was only involved insofar as he was a part of the command structure of heaven. As for Jerusalem, it can be argued that the beasts were directly under the authority of Yaweh. The only stuff Michael can be proven linked to is Myanmar, and as he said 'You threw a nuke at me, what was I supposed to do?'

The nuclear hijacking? Azrael
New York? Raphael
Beasts? Yaweh

All we have on Michael is he's a sneaky bastard and hard to kill. He also happens to be the sole benefactor of humans in heaven AND the man who short-circuited the bloodiest urban assault in history. The only 'evil' thing he's done is to leave a nuclear bomb where we put it instead of bringing it with him into heaven. Even the other angels have only seen him argue against fighting the humans, try and limit casualties, and generally be a decent person.

And who cares if Zeph knows Petraeus suspects him? We don't have infinite options to chose from for leaders of heaven, and all Zeph has to do is act exactly like he was supposed to act.

Edit: You know, I bet there's a big honking library somewhere in Heaven, and I can't wait for Norman and the rest of the DIMO(N) researchers to get to it.
You left one out. Uriel. From my understanding Michael was heavily involved in the selection of targets for Uriel. I know he was selecting targets to get Uriel killed. Also Michael should be identified as the Angel that rescued Uriel in San Diego. Not sure how this is going to be taken but i would think that the humans are going to take a dim view of these actions on Michael's part.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Pelranius » 2010-08-09 07:30pm

I think people already know that Michael was the guy who rescued Uriel in southern California. We have pictures of him from his interactions in Burma, and they got a pretty good look at him as he pulled Uriel away (even waved at the snipers, that cheeky fucker).
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by westrim » 2010-08-09 07:38pm

I think it's important to note (and probably cover in the 3rd book) the subtle yet massive shift in how people will plan and execute their lives now that life after death is tangible and real. For even the most devout believers, it has always been intangible, so they could justify whatever actions they took as being just in God's eyes and set aside their society's usual morality. Now, everyone is subject to human morality, even after death, and their objectives will shift to setting oneself up to live comfortably in the afterlife, not this one.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by nobody_really » 2010-08-09 07:43pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The rock attack was (I think) either Raphael or Azrael. Michael was only involved insofar as he was a part of the command structure of heaven.
And he selected the NYC target to be the WTC site, specifically to piss us off and because NYC always gets it in the movies. Now, will Azrael admit that to the humans? Probably not.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:As for Jerusalem, it can be argued that the beasts were directly under the authority of Yaweh.
But Branch was Michael's stooge, and she is the one who helped pinpoint Wuffles' target. Now, DIMO(N) hq is a military target, so there could be some justification for that.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:All we have on Michael is he's a sneaky bastard and hard to kill.
And he saved Uriel from getting killed in San Diego, setting up the (tens of) thousands of deaths in Los Angeles. Again, that could be justified as helping out his side as opposed to actually killing our side.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:He also happens to be the sole benefactor of humans in heaven AND the man who short-circuited the bloodiest urban assault in history. The only 'evil' thing he's done is to leave a nuclear bomb where we put it instead of bringing it with him into heaven. Even the other angels have only seen him argue against fighting the humans, try and limit casualties, and generally be a decent person.
Agreed, from the perspective of what humans know. It's highly unlikely the Concentration camp will be traced back to Michael, or that Petraeus or Yamantau knows how much Michael has been a drug dealer and pusher, as Lemuel is trying to sort out how to deal with Michael now.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2010-08-09 07:49pm

Brovane wrote:You left one out. Uriel. From my understanding Michael was heavily involved in the selection of targets for Uriel. I know he was selecting targets to get Uriel killed. Also Michael should be identified as the Angel that rescued Uriel in San Diego. Not sure how this is going to be taken but i would think that the humans are going to take a dim view of these actions on Michael's part.
The only people who know how target selection worked were Michael, Uriel, and Yaweh. Guess who's still alive.
nobody_really wrote:And he selected the NYC target to be the WTC site, specifically to piss us off and because NYC always gets it in the movies. Now, will Azrael admit that to the humans? Probably not.
Azrael is dead. Notice a pattern?
But Branch was Michael's stooge, and she is the one who helped pinpoint Wuffles' target. Now, DIMO(N) hq is a military target, so there could be some justification for that.
Branch was (I believe) one of Raphael's.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:And he saved Uriel from getting killed in San Diego, setting up the (tens of) thousands of deaths in Los Angeles. Again, that could be justified as helping out his side as opposed to actually killing our side.
None of the Archangels are innocent. Now we're dealing with degrees of guilt.

In the end, anyone who knew about Michael's more direct involvement in the war is dead. The only one left is Belial, and he's not talking to anyone any time soon. Those who know MOST are Michael's most trusted inner circle. As it stands, there's a lot of cloudy suspicion around Michael, but all we can confirm is he follows orders, looks out for angels and humans alike, and didn't directly commit any atrocities.

Plus he's a natural leader who is respected. I guess I need to start making Team Michael shirts.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Hofner1962 » 2010-08-09 07:56pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote: Edit: You know, I bet there's a big honking library somewhere in Heaven, and I can't wait for Norman and the rest of the DIMO(N) researchers to get to it.
That reminds me of a joke.

A trappist monk who has spent a long life of devout service dies and goes to heaven. When he arrives at the gates St. Peter asks him what he would like to do. The monk asks whether they have any of the original texts of the Bible. St. Peter remarks that they have a huge hall of records with original versions not just of the Bible, but many spiritual texts. He points the way and tells the monk to come back and see him when he is done.

Three days go by and St. Peter begins to get worried about their new addition. He goes looking for him and finds him in the hall of records - curled up in a fetal position, muttering and rocking back and forth. Scrolls and manuscripts are strewn about the floor.

He gets close enough to the monk to hear what he is repeating - over and over again.

"Nooo. The word was celebrate - the word was celebrate . . ."

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Eddie Van Helsing » 2010-08-09 08:37pm

How much does the Mason really know, and just how deep into Mikey's little conspiracy is he? I doubt he spent all this time just keeping Yah-Yah's throne room pristine and enjoying his ringside seat every time Mikey inspires one of the Dark Lord's technicolor tantrums.
People love to follow orders. It allows them to absolve themselves from responsibility. When everything turns to shit, they can just point a finger and say, "I was just following orders."

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Ryan Thunder » 2010-08-09 08:40pm

For all humanity's devastating victory in The Salvation War, it had been a closer-run thing than people realized.
What was that line again... "Show, don't tell."?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2010-08-09 08:46pm

Ryan Thunder wrote:
For all humanity's devastating victory in The Salvation War, it had been a closer-run thing than people realized.
What was that line again... "Show, don't tell."?
Oh look, its this same argument... again. Tell me, what does 'almost running out of supplies' look like in a narrative? Some heroic factory streamlining?
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by nobody_really » 2010-08-09 08:51pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
nobody_really wrote:And he selected the NYC target to be the WTC site, specifically to piss us off and because NYC always gets it in the movies. Now, will Azrael admit that to the humans? Probably not.
Azrael is dead. Notice a pattern?
Umm, Azrael just told Petraeus that Micheal didn't know about the Tel Aviv nuke. To whom do you refer?
CaptainChewbacca wrote:
nobody_really wrote:But Branch was Michael's stooge, and she is the one who helped pinpoint Wuffles' target. Now, DIMO(N) hq is a military target, so there could be some justification for that.
Branch was (I believe) one of Raphael's.
I found the relevant quote (in Chapter Fifty-Six):
Stuart wrote:"... you might be right, Michael-Lan promised you entry to Heaven didn't he?"

Kathryn Branch was sobbing. All the humiliation and abuse she had suffered in prison was catching up with her and it overwhelmed her. Even more overwhelming was the fear of much worse to come. She had believed that nothing could be worse than her present incarceration but logically she understood that she could be doing far worse. Now it appeared she would be. Mixed in with all that was something that she rigidly denied even to herself, something that contradicted everything she had been indoctrinated with since childhood. She was being betrayed by those she had worshipped.

"Michael-Lan promised me nothing. He just said that it was my duty to stand by the True Faith. My duty."
Again, your main point mostly stands, as DIMO(N) is a military target. Fayetteville being close by was unfortunate collateral damage.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:
nobody_really wrote:And he saved Uriel from getting killed in San Diego, setting up the (tens of) thousands of deaths in Los Angeles. Again, that could be justified as helping out his side as opposed to actually killing our side.
None of the Archangels are innocent. Now we're dealing with degrees of guilt.

In the end, anyone who knew about Michael's more direct involvement in the war is dead. The only one left is Belial, (and Azrael) and he's not talking to anyone any time soon. (Azrael probably won't talk either, as he seems to hate humans almost as much as Uriel did at the end of his life.) Those who know MOST are Michael's most trusted inner circle. As it stands, there's a lot of cloudy suspicion around Michael, but all we can confirm is he follows orders, looks out for angels and humans alike, and didn't directly commit any atrocities.

Plus he's a natural leader who is respected. I guess I need to start making Team Michael shirts.
Again, I don't see much to argue with your main point, except that it's likely that Petraeus won't trust Michael further than he can throw him when his back is acting up. Micheal will have to rule as a hidden voice behind the throne.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Nematocyst » 2010-08-09 09:02pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote: Edit: You know, I bet there's a big honking library somewhere in Heaven, and I can't wait for Norman and the rest of the DIMO(N) researchers to get to it.
I honestly doubt it. Everything ran on 'because Yahweh wills it', and having books that basically say 'things work like this and Yahweh has nothing to do with it' sounds like heresy, and thus, kicked from Heaven.
And HUMANITY said: "it is our duty, not as men or women, not as black or white, but as HUMANS, to defend our species from utter annihilation and damnation. These Beings that for so long believed themselves masters of our destiny finally dropped their facade. HUMANITY will, as one, declare WAR on them. HUMANITY is master of its' own destiny. And we will fight to the last"

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by darksoul » 2010-08-09 09:11pm

if we acknowledge Michael`s right to defend himself by returning the nuke, then we must acknowledge his right to rescue a fellow soldier from the battlefield. even if the saved wasn`t a fellow nor a soldier, and he wasn`t in a battlefield, more like a killing ground :) .

Still, Michael maybe successful in switching from a Batman Gambit to a Xanatos Gambit, but he isn`t on the clear yet. Michael is a drug dealer, that runs a club. He is or was the supreme master of the Heavenly police. There are Lemuel, Maion and Belial still out there.
And besides, who is going to believe that Michael, the greatest general of all from more time than humans has existed, is free of guilt? He can`t.
As such, if he appears innocent and forgiving, but obviously isn`t , it`s because he is more dangerous than he seems. Surely at least Asane and Petraeus will see that. They are or seem to be skilled in political maneuvering.

Also, there is at least one archive, the one at the Holy League of whatever. Lemuel is shown in the early pantheoncide cursing the paperwork Michael has forced into the organization. That is a good place to start.
Michael himself is expected to have a fine library in his estate. It is consistent with his profile and likings.
Also there are records of resource management at the palace, the ones Zacharael (I really suck at angellic names) is shown talking about defrauding.

Other than that, there are probably papers, only I don`t believe there is that much fiction or poetry to read beyond adoration rites, history of the temples and maybe adoration hymns. Yuck.

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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Ryan Thunder » 2010-08-09 09:20pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote:
For all humanity's devastating victory in The Salvation War, it had been a closer-run thing than people realized.
What was that line again... "Show, don't tell."?
Oh look, its this same argument... again. Tell me, what does 'almost running out of supplies' look like in a narrative? Some heroic factory streamlining?
Really? :lol:

"There's THETARGET! HQ, this is Dagger One Alfa, we have a lock on our objective, requesting CAS, over."
"Dagger One Alpha this is HQ that's a negative. Wait one, over."
"Shit!" he said, "Copy that, HQ, call the arty, then, we're running out of time!"
"Dagger One Alpha this is HQ, scrub the mission. How copy? Over."
"Interrogative, HQ; that window's closing. Over."
"Dagger One Alpha, RTB. How copy? Over."
"Copy that, HQ. Dagger One, out." he cut the link, "Fuck it, we're gonna have to improvise..."
*cue cunning/badassery*

Oh wait that might involve the HEA/protagonists making believable mistakes... Image
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2010-08-09 09:45pm

"There's THETARGET! HQ, this is Dagger One Alfa, we have a lock on our objective, requesting CAS, over."
"Dagger One Alpha this is HQ that's a negative. Wait one, over."
"Shit!" he said, "Copy that, HQ, call the arty, then, we're running out of time!"
"Dagger One Alpha this is HQ, scrub the mission. How copy? Over."
"Interrogative, HQ; that window's closing. Over."
"Dagger One Alpha, RTB. How copy? Over."
"Copy that, HQ. Dagger One, out." he cut the link, "Fuck it, we're gonna have to improvise..."
*cue cunning/badassery*
I have no idea what this is supposed to be. Its a lot of badly-written com chatter and an aborted mission, but beyond that its nothing. At any rate, I'm pretty sure that if Stuart wrote 'cunning badassery' you'd complain that it was contrived and unrealistic.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Night_stalker » 2010-08-09 09:46pm

Hold on, has anyone considered the fact that Belial is still running around, and is probably organizing the Baldrcks who refused to accept their defeat... Hmmm, we still have him to deal with PLUS any potential rebellion in Heaven from eiter Angels or the few humans who were brought up there? I think the HEA is starting to get a bit stretched for manower, so we could have a problem.
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Re: The Salvation War: Pantheocide Part Eighty Two Up

Post by Ryan Thunder » 2010-08-09 09:56pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I have no idea what this is supposed to be. Its a lot of badly-written com chatter and an aborted mission, but beyond that its nothing.
Sorry, it didn't seem to be worth more than a few minutes' effort.

The gist of it is, "dudes call down a bomb on something. A demon barracks or whatever. the HEA is having supply difficulties => bombs/arty aren't used for just anything => HQ calls them off because they fucked up the supply numbers and there's no arty in range because they didn't think they'd need it => dudes have to improvise."
At any rate, I'm pretty sure that if Stuart wrote 'cunning badassery' you'd complain that it was contrived and unrealistic.
Let the hate flow through you? :lol:

I wouldn't recommend making assumptions about people like that.
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