Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by mr friendly guy »

I also should point out that Time Lords are aware and have utilised psionic boosting technology. So the stone of Gol seems less out of place thematically in the context of a crossover between the two franchises. Plus I needed an in universe explanation why this mind meld succeeded in reviving Romana's memory, whilst others have failed in the past.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by NecronLord »

I would really avoid using anything from the Ancestor Cell. It's beyond lame, starving time lords rioting on the streets of Gallifrey, Romana deciding that her second incarnation is too weak for war therefore regenerating into a total bitch? Blargh. The best thing about the entire arc was Gallifrey Chronicles which ends on the possibility that the entire thing will be unhappened. Also, I'm pretty sure that the Time War writeup by RTD has Romana still being president when the Daleks launched their fleet into the vortex (end of the Gallifrey Chronicles aside).

It's almost on the level of lame with the idea that Rassilon stole all the Time Lords' secrets and that the species who really invented it is imprisoned in 'Rassilon's Forge' on Gallifrey, with their whole home system.

Also, it's a considerable achievement to write Janeway as that likeable. Good job.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

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Well since BBC's policy is to do whatever your personal preference for it.... and Big Finish and BBC novels were hinted at being set in alternate universes.

Any way, I took the idea that technology which appeared in each continuity is pretty consistent even if the events may or may not have happened. Also strategic ideas such as the Nine Gallifrey's are floating around even if they weren't necessary implemented. So in this story the continuity goes like this (I am amenable to changing it).

1. Romana becomes president as per the Virgin line of novels

2. Romana restablishes the chapter of the Sisterhood of Karn as per "Lung barrow" which leads to the visionaries reappearing.

3. The important events of the Gallifrey audios occur even if the details are a bit different. So Romana trying to open up Gallifrey to the other temporal powers did happen. A calamity befalls Gallifrey (ignore the Dogma virus and all that crap and some of the more stupid things which occurred there). Some calamity which we shall not go into detail occurred. Other temporal powers move to pick upon the carcass of Gallifrey, which ends the audios on a cliffhanger, with Romana having a plan and Braxiatel moving to back up.

4. Romana's plan (whatever it was) succeeded.

5. Braxiatel's plan was to back up Gallifrey so to speak and create clones worlds, which leads to the idea of the Nine Gallifrey which floats into the BBC novels. So Romana agrees to start the back up of Gallifrey.

6. Sometime Romana goes to see the Visionaries and mindlink. In their warped mad state she sees the enemy which she would fight in the years which would not occur. She sees her regnerating into a cold hearted bitch. She also sees some nonsensical shit like Faction Paradox taking over Gallifrey and starving Time Lords rioting on the streets. She puts this down to the Visionary visions are difficult to interpret. However this does lead too.

7. Stopping Faction Paradox in its tracts - heh heh heh in your face Lawrence Miles. The Grandfather is imprisoned on Shada.

8. Various technological advances in that alternate timeline (which would have occurred eventually anyway).

9. They discover that chronal decay will lead to the creation of the Enemy from the ancestor cell.
a) The ancestor cell is not the ancestors of all living things. That is beyond stupid and Richard Dawkins would be spewing bile at the very thought of this idea.
b) its just an ancestor of an unknown planet which technobabble blah blah attracts the energies involved with Time Lord travel
c) the back up Gallifrey's are not completed yet.

10. They suggest to stop the attack the original Gallifrey must be destroyed while the clone worlds are being built (as per Romana's vision of a black hole engulfing Gallifrey). They store the biodata of the Time Lords on various sources including the Doctor. Unfortunately in his confuse state the Doctor ends up "escaping" and the adventures we see in the BBC novels chronicles this. Any continuity error is chalked up to the Doctor being delirious.

11. Until the Time Lords rebuild Gallifrey, all those weird shit that occurs in the BBC novels which wouldn't have happened if the TL were around occurs.

12. Gallifrey is rebuilt, however the other 8 clone worlds haven't.

13. Dalek fleet launches itself into the Vortex. Time Lords divert vast resources into the Time War and couldn't not complete the other clone worlds.

14. during the time war those other powers get wiped out. Yeah. During this period Romana regenerates into her third incarnation which looks just like her vision.

15. Rassilon is woken up and takes over, eventually planning the end of time itself. Which leads to when this story starts.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Enigma »

You can probably put this down as stupid questions but I have to ask.

Will the Doctor make an appearance?

In the Trek universe was there already a Gallifrey there? I mean one native to the Trek universe?
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

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I plan to have the Doctor make an appearance for... one line. Just to explain why he won't be making more appearances. :lol:

No, I don't believe there will be an equivalent to Gallifrey there. In any event if there was its 250 million LY from Earth, easily well away from the Milky Way galaxy and outside the purview of the Federation.

I do plan to reveal Future Guy's identity though. Yes I know B & B never bothered to tell viewers who Future Guy really is, so I will. :wink:
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Themightytom »

mr friendly guy wrote:I plan to have the Doctor make an appearance for... one line. Just to explain why he won't be making more appearances. :lol:

No, I don't believe there will be an equivalent to Gallifrey there. In any event if there was its 250 million LY from Earth, easily well away from the Milky Way galaxy and outside the purview of the Federation.

I do plan to reveal Future Guy's identity though. Yes I know B & B never bothered to tell viewers who Future Guy really is, so I will. :wink:
I have a bit of a question which might have an easy answer. How come the Federation has made such limited progress on reverse engineering Tl technology? Captain jack was growing his how TARDIS, The alternate Whoverse developed guns that could blow up a Dalek etc. It seems like the federation should be able to figure this shit out a little faster than they are...

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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

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Themightytom wrote:I have a bit of a question which might have an easy answer. How come the Federation has made such limited progress on reverse engineering Tl technology? Captain jack was growing his how TARDIS,
According to a questionably canonical source; RTD also said that TARDISes have seeds, so he might not need to do anything. Also, I'm not sure why 31st Century Feds should be as knowledgeable as 51st Century Whoverse humans.
The alternate Whoverse developed guns that could blow up a Dalek etc. It seems like the federation should be able to figure this shit out a little faster than they are...
In fairness, we saw what, three such guns? They might be the very same ones the Doctor modified, with a different nozzle on the end.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

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When did Jack grow his own TARDIS?

In any event the 4 th time war happens around the 31 st century. Thus they have 200 years since Braxton kidnappyed Katz and Rainer to help them. The module the two developed was described in the Two Doctors as having some features even more advanced than the Doctor's type 40, but it was clearly not dimensional transcendental. Unfortunately it didn't work (see below).

They also have 200 years since Romana regained her memory (assuming of course she tells them all she knows). Frankly well there are factions within the UFP who would want to help her (detailed in my next chapter) there are others who would like her locked up telling them all she knows (like how Torchwood envisaged the Doctor helping them). So unless she gets some type of deal where she has some degree of freedom, she won't be telling. Moreover she doesn't know all there is to know about Time Lord tech.

We know that TL time vessels has several advantages over Federation time ships namely.

1. No such weird things like temporal psychosis

2. The "range" of time travel. The TARDIS could reach close to shortly after the Big Bang (Castrovavla, Timeless) and to the year 100 trillion (Utopia).

3. bigger on the inside than the outside (seriously you could put an entire colony on one of these)

4. Quite resistant to damage - see Horns of Nimon where the TARDIS rams into an asteroid with mass 220 million tons with a diameter of 6.4 kilometers and approaching them at Mach 9 WITHOUT shields on. Granted the Doctor spun the TARDIS to try and minimise the impact (the same way a spin bowler in cricket spins the ball so that if a batsmen hits it, it won't be with the middle of the bat), but still its quite a feat.

I guess the Block Transfer computations (Logopolis) method of constructing the outer shell really works.

5. Wanktastic tractor beam - between pulling planets (Journey's end) and neutron stars (Creature from the Pit) it just shows you how much power the TARDIS can generate.

6. Ability to repair itself - 8th doctor novels, Sky Pirates, Frontios etc.

So the difficulty with reverse engineering lies in

1. Safeguards put in by Rassilon. That is there is a small portion of the Time Lord genome required to work the machine (at least initially) and then a TARDIS would store it and then any one can use it, until it runs out again and you need a Time Lord to work the machine again. So just copying the technology would be a problem as seen with the Katz and Rainer model. You need to try and develop your own version which is slower than just copying.

2. The amount of power generation required - just think of the tractor beam feats, and there is no indication the TARDIS uses any equivalent to the static warp field weight lightening trick Star Trek uses.

Its like the 24 th century UFP being asked to reverse engineer SW technology. Even if they understood how the shields, hyperdrive, turbo lasers work, without understanding how the hypermatter generators work they just simply cannot generate the power to make the other technologies work.

We can see from the series Enterprise, in the future they have time ships which are bigger on the inside than the outside. However it clearly is not as resilent as a TARDIS since Reed cut it open with a phase pistol (never mind the stupidity of not using proper engineering tools to cut things open). So in my story the feds will master some aspects of time lord technology, but despite looking "newer and flashier" than a type 40 TARDIS, they still lag behind in certain areas. Notably power generation and the chameleon circuit (hence they can't master block transfer computations and create as durable an exterior)
According to a questionably canonical source; RTD also said that TARDISes have seeds, so he might not need to do anything. Also, I'm not sure why 31st Century Feds should be as knowledgeable as 51st Century Whoverse humans.
You are no doubt refering to the deleted scene. Even if that is so it just makes it even harder for the Federation. Without a Rassilon Imprintmateur these TARDISes just won't work for humans, and unless they can get Romana to "prime" every TARDIS, its going to run into problems. I would personally have them try to make a mechanical equivalent. Like a ship bigger on the inside than the outside. Too bad it can be cut open by a phase pistol. :lol:
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Themightytom »

NecronLord wrote:
According to a questionably canonical source; RTD also said that TARDISes have seeds, so he might not need to do anything. Also, I'm not sure why 31st Century Feds should be as knowledgeable as 51st Century Whoverse humans.
The alternate Whoverse developed guns that could blow up a Dalek etc. It seems like the federation should be able to figure this shit out a little faster than they are...
In fairness, we saw what, three such guns? They might be the very same ones the Doctor modified, with a different nozzle on the end.[/quote]

Well actually Captain jack had an entirely different gun from what Rose Mickey and Rose's mom were carrying, and although the doctor did alter Mickey's gun, he only altered the one, so AU torchwood must have figured out how to duplicate the effect. In Journey's end Torchwood employs a time lock, THAT'S pretty effective tech, since the Doctor used a Time lock to get rid of them in the first place.While the Tardises may not respond well to organic operators, the robot in Waters of mars drove right in and starting messing with dials, why wouldn't an android be able to pull that off, given they "key" from the get go? The Timelords can't cross into their own timelines, has that been conveniently suspended or is that exploitable.

If I'm chatting too much let me know Coffee I have no problem keeping it to PMs, i'm a huge fan of the story.

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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

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The thing is, once the Rassilon impramateur has been uploaded onto any TARDIS, anyone can use it until it runs out. Fun trick, load up enough so that the person can use it once or twice, then the third time bad things happen, ie the operator gets lost through the vortex even as the ship returns intact (The two doctors). This explains why organic operators can use the Doctor's TARDIS (since it continually gets prime every time he steps in it, with one upload enough for several trips). Problem is, if the Federation just copies one, they need someone to "prime" the TARDIS. Sure they could use Romana, but they would need lots of TARDISes making it impractical. I don't think even robots would be much use if they get lost in the Vortex. I suppose they could attach AIs to the computer system, but I have a feeling the Federation doesn't like AIs running things, see the ?M17 incident.

The Time Lords can cross their own timelines, they just prefer not to. Moreover its hinted in the novels it shouldn't happen accidentally since they oversaw the rules of time. Reasons given for not crossing their own time lines are a) against the rules they themselves created b) things escape from the vortex to correct the paradox "Father's day". However even in a weaken state they made the Doctor cross his own timeline for their personal gains "The 3 doctors." In any event a paradox machine should fix that problem.

Other instances of crossing the time line include
a) The five doctors - done so at the instigation of renegade time lord Borusa in clear violation of the rules of time the time lords set out

b) The two doctors - it was the result of time experiments

c) The end of time - ok not as clear cut violation, but Rassilon did send the sound of drums into the Master's head through time travel

d) Day of the daleks - the Doctor and Jo briefly meet their future versions.

e) Eighth doctor novels - the most blatant crossing the time line ever. The Time Lords would alter the results of battles that didn't go their way, and the otherside will reply in kind. Although not all those battles altered initially involved Time Lords, as both sides utilised proxy alien races.

f) time war with the daleks - RTD has stated in source books they pulled out weapons from the past (which may mean decommissioned ones still there, or they simply plucked it out good as new).

So I would think its relatively easy to cross your timeline (unless you travel to Gallifrey's past since the planet itself is rigged to stop someone altering its history) for Time Lords if a simple time experiment can do it. The main barrier holding back the Doctor seems a combination of regards for Time Lord rules, and the fact the TL aren't around to clean up his mess.

That being said, crossing your personal time line is messy and difficult to write. Just as some techno thriller authors has conflicts between the world super powers with treaties restricting nuclear weapons unless the other side breaks it first, my plan is to have both sides restrict the use of crossing their own governmental time lines unless the other side does it first.

Once one side breaks it (re : Daniels time travel) then the TL will feel they no longer need to abide by such a treaty either. Then you will soon have both sides crossing their own time lines to give themselves an advantage.

Now Daniels has already appeared in the 24 th century and told Kira the UFP has much to do if they are to defeat their enemy ie the time lords. This sounds a violation of the no crossing your own time line rule. So I figured the Time Lords will return the favour. Hopefully they will do it in a manner you won't expect.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

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Chapter 10 – The rise and rise of Harold Saxon

It is said that a butterfly flapping its wings may cause a tornado somewhere else. Perhaps. Perhaps not. However the effect of an enraged immortal reaching across the heavens seeking vengeance, that could not be denied. Stretching across time and space the Celestial Toymaker tried to pull the Doctor into his domain. At that moment the Time Lord had collapsed a star, using its energy to communicate with one Rose Tyler, stuck in a parallel dimension. Drawing upon the energy the Doctor attempted to escape. As a result the TARDIS careened across the dimensions, the Lonely God was lost once again, this time in the multiverse. Enraged the Toymaker eventually calmed down. He now had two universes to draw upon, so he settled in, the gateway to his domain in what humans would call the Nekrit triangle within the Delta Quadrant. But the consequences would not end here.

Elsewhere in the year 100 trillion a professor Yana would finally accidentally open his fob watch, and a Time Lord would be reborn. Desperately trying to escape the final fate of the universe, the Master laboured and eventually built a primitive time corridor allowing him to escape into the 21 st century earth. The strain of travelling through such a corridor caused him to regenerate. Now calling himself Harold Saxon he would become Prime Minister of Britain. Colluding with the remnants of humans in the future now dubbed the Toclafane, he created what looked like an alien invasion of Earth. However the Master never had any intention of letting the Toclafane stay. Such an event would cause too great a paradox, and lacking a TARDIS the Master could not build a paradox machine.

The human victory over the Toclafane required martial law to be declared. With the other leaders of the UN permanent members killed, it naturally fell unto Saxon to lead. His popularity grew, backed by the Archangel satellite network, which broadcast hypnotic waves cementing his rule among the human sheep. Thus did his dictatorship begin.

In 2012 he discovered that American Henry van Statten had a collection of alien artefacts, so he paid van Statten a visit. On discovering the lone, weakened Dalek, he ordered it disassembled, Dalek technology being added to his. The Dalek could not tell him what he wanted to know. The final fate of the Time Lords. Who won the Time War? That would come later.

The Master had begun to build his own primitive time ships with whatever technology humanity could offer. From indigenous to captured alien artefacts from the Torchwood institute. It wasn’t enough. He did however discover that other Daleks still lived. In 1930s New York of all places. The Cult of Skaro had fled their defeat by the Doctor by travelling through time. The Master would do the same and this time he destroyed the last remnants of the Dalek race. Daleks Caan, Sec, Jast and Thay, dead at his feet. How quaint he thought, Daleks with names. However he learnt from them their encounter with the Doctor and that the Time Lords and Daleks were all dead.

He was elated, but then it occurred to him that if the Doctor could remain hidden from him, so could the Time Lords. He brushed the thought aside until his paranoia was stroked again. A probe from a parallel time line entered Earth’s orbit. It was destroyed but he was determined to discover whether it’s makers were a threat to him. So he built up his army. Humans protested the economic upheaval as the whole world changed to a war footing. The Master however found his solution on Christmas day.

The immortality engine had been hidden in Torchwood among all the other alien artefacts waiting for someone to figure out how to make it work. That someone was Harold Saxon. Stepping in it, he made every human being become him. Thus on Christmas day the human race ceased to exist, and he could continue on building his vast empire and planning to follow the probe back to its home universe. It was there he would discover he was sadly mistaken about the outcome of the Time War.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

29 th century

Time seem to stretch out for Ducane as he watched Braxton point the phaser at Mary.

“No, its murder.”

Too late. He saw the phaser blast hit Mary and threw her back, hitting the holodeck wall. Soon Risa security would be here, having detected the phaser emission. But it would be too late. Finally snapping out of their daze the Vulcans moved to restrain Braxton. He didn’t bother to resist letting them disarm him.

Calhoun quickly moved to Mary’s side. “Damn it Braxton. She may be a Time Lord, but she still has rights. We should have turned her over to the appropriate authorities.”

“I left enough of her for the authorities to dissect.” Braxton was right. While he would be found guilty of murder, the Federation would not allow her body to go to waste. Scientists would eagerly try to discover more on Time Lord physiology, and more importantly how she could past for human. Mary’s dignity would play second fiddle to the need to learn more about the Time Lords. “Billions of Vulcans and millions of colonist dead in the attacks on Vulcan, Proximus 3, Vega, Deneva, Terra Nova 4 and New Earth. And what do we have to show for it. Not a damn thing. No Time Lord was ever killed in retaliation, until now.” At this point Braxton didn’t care if he was stripped of his Admiralty. To him this would be a perverse triumph.

“She is still alive, but barely. Heavy internal bleeding.” Calhoun pulled out her medical kit and attempted to stabilise Mary. She opened up a small incision and allowed nano probes to enter Mary’s blood stream, attempting to repair the severed blood vessels. “Damn it, I am losing her.”

Ducane felt his heart slipping. In frustration he did the only thing he could do. He hit Braxton. Hit him hard. For his part the Admiral took it without flinching. “You will most probably continue to hate me for the rest of your life, but know that what I do, I do for the Federation.”

It was then that Calhoun detected more of the bioneural energy. The orange light enveloped both Mary and Calhoun, and then Ducane watched another aspect of Time Lord science take form. From out the light Calhoun emerged in her Starfleet uniform. However where before Calhoun was a woman in her forties, she now looked twenty years younger. As for Mary, she was wearing the same clothes. But it was no longer her face. Gone was the short black hair, replaced with long red hair which reached down her shoulders, the same colour as Calhoun’s. Mary pulled her hair up to her face looking at it with amazement. “I am a ginger.”

“How?” Calhoun asked.

“I regenerated. When Braxton all but killed me, my Time Lord healing factor kicked in and started a total renewal of the body.”

“We knew Time Lords had a high degree of regenerative capabilities, but we never expected this.”

“But why was Calhoun also affected?” Ducane asked.

It was only then that “Mary” noticed Calhoun’s youthful appearance. Elizabeth figured something had happened to her and started waving her tricorder at herself. “You must have been operating on me. My blood must have touched your hands and some the Atron energy touched you as well. But if that’s the case that means… have I become part human?”

Looking at her tricorder Calhoun nodded. “I am detecting parts of human DNA which wasn’t there earlier according to its memory banks. Its not just any human DNA, it matches mine. That’s not all. According to this, parts of your DNA have merged with mine, but it seems I only got a little bit.”

“My friend once joked about being half human, now it seems I might actually become part human myself. I wonder what its like.” Mary looked about in wonderment. She saw her husband’s puzzled, expression, Braxton’s face contorting in hate but she starred back at him. Not with just with hate, but some compassion. It felt like the human thing to do.

“I don’t understand why my DNA should get mixed up with yours.”

“Time Lord human meta crisis.” Mary explained as if actually expecting the term to elucidate anything at all. “Must be the first time its happened.”

“What are you talking about Mary?”

“The Atron energy from my regeneration caused some of our genetic codes to mix. Normally doesn’t happen but you got my blood on your hand.. and its complicated. Lets just say you might find you live longer than the average human, but certainly not a Gallifreyan lifespan and you most likely can’t regenerate like I just did.”

“Never mind that. The Risa security team is here.” One of the Vulcans spoke.

It was then that everyone finally noticed the silhouettes to indicate several men being beamed in. “We better explain to them what is going on. By the way, my name is Romana.”


* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

22 nd century

“No need to push.”

Trip’s outburst of defiance was rewarded with a blow to the head by the Suliban guard. It had been one day since Suliban ships had appeared undetected and accosted Enterprise. The proud ship was captured and now a prize for the Suliban enclave. The Tandaran scientists had been killed before Trip’s eyes. Now he was imprisoned with the rest of the crew with the exception of Archer. He was given the dubious honour of meeting the Suliban’s leader. Trip wondered how the Captain was doing.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

“There was no need to kill those scientists. They could not have hurt you.” Archer was fuming.

The image he was talking to was the mysterious benefactor of the Suliban. In his mind Archer had already started thinking of him as “Future Guy”. For the moment Future Guy however ignored his comments. “Bring it forward.”

The futuristic time ship was bought before Archer’s captor. The reaction was not what he expected. “No, no, no.” Archer wondered what set Future Guy off. “Silik, lend me your body.”

Suddenly Silik tensed. It was for the briefest of moments, however when he had finished the eyes that starred back at Archer was not that of his Suliban nemesis. His voice may have been the same, but his mannerisms were not. “Where did you get this TARDIS from?”

“A what?”

“Don’t play coy with me. It is dimensionally transcendental. Not even the Monan Hosts have managed to duplicate such technology, and the Daleks can only do so on a small scale.”

“Look we found it in one of the Tandaran colonies.”

“It is damaged. How could you primitives damage a TARDIS?”

“Malcolm cut it open with a phase pistol.”

Archer’s reply was punctuated by Silik’s or was that his benefactor’s laughter. “Ah I see now. Its not a proper TARDIS. It is a poor replica. What do you humans call it? The repliTARDIS? Or maybe the reTARDIS?” He laughed at his own joke. Archer didn’t find it funny.

“What is a TARDIS?” Archer asked. Unfortunately his captor wasn’t willing to answer. “Take him away.” With that Archer found himself marched to join the rest of the Enterprise crew.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Inside the time ship Silik’s hands moved at the controls. Finally after a while a hologram appeared and spoke. “This is Admiral Gough of the Federation Time Fleet. The war against the Time Lords has not gone well. Initially the Erkulon plague has hurt their time ships, their so called TARDISes. However it has only slowed them down, and now we face retaliation from them. Already entire worlds slip into madness, sentients killing each other in blood lust. Our core worlds threaten to be excised from the time line as Gallifrey starts bringing its military might to bear. Their time ships can generate much higher levels of power than ours.”

The hologram went on to list more military defeats and the devastation the war with the Time Lords brought to the Federation. However Silik’s Master was no longer interested in that. “Computer, tell me of the Time Lords.”

“Time Lords of Gallifrey. A extradimensional race which appeared in the Gamma Quadrant in the 26 th century. Quickly taking over the Dominion, the predominant power of that region of space they set about building their empire.”

“Skip that. Go to their origins.”

“Origins of Time Lords. They originated in a parallel universe. From disparate sources they escaped the destruction in the so called third time war, a war against a race called the Daleks. Some scholars still consider the Daleks apocryphal and no such race has been encountered by in Federation historical..

“Skip that part.” Silik interrupted. “Computer, tell me of Time Lord political structure.”

“Time Lords led by president Rassilon and ruled by a High Council.”

“Show me what Rassilon looks like.”

“Would you like to view historical recordings?”

“Yes, yes get on with it.”

An image of a stern man appeared and spoke. “At this time exactly one month ago, elements of the United Federation of Planets accessed an old T’kon transmat grid and used it to transport the planet Shada from Gallifreyan territory into the Delphic expanse. Such action by the Federation constitutes an act of war and interference in Gallifrey’s internal affairs.” The hologram paused as if letting the words sink in. “By unanimous vote of the High Council Gallifrey demands that if Shada is not returned intact to its proper place and time with its occupants, we will retaliate against the Federation and its colonies. The Federation has one week to comply. Failure to do so will ensure the Time Lord fleet move against the following worlds, Vulcan, Proximus 3, Vega, Deneva, Terra Nova 4 and New Earth.” With that Rassilon raised his hands and shouted “For Gallifrey, for victory.”

“End session.”

He paused, for now there was no need to go on for now. The evidence was too strong. Rassilon, founder of Time Lord society exactly as he remembered him. So the Time Lords didn’t die after all. They escaped to a parallel universe. He would need time to digest this turn of events.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Every day was the same. The Suliban would feed them at a certain time, then return to clear the food. If you haven’t finished it by then it was your problem. Certainly the dishes left much to be desired. The Enterprise crew waited for their chance to escape. It came sooner than expected.

The Suliban base came under attack from an unknown species. Their space station was racked by explosions as disruptor fire rained down. For a moment the Suliban held their own, then the enemy brought out its ace in the hole. An energy dampening weapon the Suliban had never encountered before. Powerless the station started coming apart as stray hits struck it. Only the defending Suliban ships prevented most of the energy discharges hitting the station. The Suliban had decided they wanted the Enterprise crew alive and was in the process of evacuating them. When the opportunity arose, they took it.

First a MACO struck one of their Suliban captors. This led to a riot as the crew fought back against the very people who had treated them so. It was not without casualties as Ensign Hong was the first of many to be gunned down by disruptor fire. However as the whole the crew managed to take a few Suliban hostages. Forcing their captives to lead them to Enterprise, they manage to escape during the crisis, despite the dangers. Many times they were nearly undone. Once a disruptor fire from the attacking aliens caused the roof to collapse blocking the way as more Suliban converged. Another time Archer and Trip fired their weapons like men possessed. Each shot taking out a Suliban. It truly was the crew’s finest hour. Too bad it was all a dream.
* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
29 th century

“It is said that at the end of time, the Timewyrn will devour Rassilon the first Time Lord.” Romana sounded almost bored. Federation intelligence officials had been questioning her for the last hour, all without legal representative. She had been separated from Ducane and her family on the trip back to Earth. Her every move now watched by intelligence officials.

“I want facts, not fairytales or legends among your people.” The man who spoke was human. His name was Charles Huxley and he was a so called expert on Time Lords. As much expertise as a human could possibly know anyway. He had written several dissertations and essays on the Time Lords and jumped at the opportunity to interrogate one again. “I want to know how we can defeat Rassilon should Gallifrey prove obstinate again.”

“You have spoken about how Rassilon over threw these Pythia from Gallifrey. How he banished magic from the universe because he found the idea of magic superstitious and repugnant. The idea that certain rules of the universe could simply be changed is ridiculous on the surface, especially if this so called magic was empirical and testable.” Huxley’s companion, Romana found out was named Thomas Dawkins, a member of Federation intelligence. In interrogation there was always a so called good cop and another bad cop. It seemed that both of them decided to be the bad cop.

“Scientific rules don’t govern. They only describe how the universe behaves. Naturally when the universe no longer behaves in such a manner, the laws of physics are no longer correct, and are modified. Isn’t that how science works?.” Despite herself, Romana couldn’t help herself. She might be willing to cooperate with the Federation, estranged form Time Lord society was she was, however they had done their best to make it unpleasant for her. Thus out of pique she would feed them truths, but in such a manner as to be undiscernible. “For example, you know certain particles can only exist in subspace and not normal space. However the USS Enterprise D discovered the phenomena of certain subspace particles existing in normal space, due to tampering by aliens living in subspace, did it not? Did the Sphere Builders not try to change the nature of normal space so they can exist in your universe? The only difference between them and the Time Lords is, that we succeeded in making the change permanent.”

“Even if that is true your other stories are ridiculous. Giant vampires from another universe which can feed on a planet. Immune to energy weapons, and they needed a giant crossbow to be fired at FTL speeds to penetrate their hearts. Q like beings who live outside of time, who you once worshipped as Gods before your time war made them flee the universe. Huon particles being wiped out altogether from the universe by your people. Its like us suddenly making a magic device to cause all gluons to disappear and hence ending all life as we know it.” Dawkins was fuming now.

“Maybe our technology and understanding of science is simply greater than yours.” Romana smiled sweetly.

“It is in your interest to help us, Romana. You obviously aren’t exactly popular with the High Council or else they wouldn’t have created such an elaborate punishment for you. We cannot defeat the Time Lords, but perhaps with your scientific knowledge, we might be able to protect you.” It was Huxley who spoke.

“I am no threat to Rassilon here. It won’t be worth the effort to deal with me here. Maybe its even better for him that I remain here.”

“So you are a political prisoner?” Dawkins spoke. “

Romana realised that the intelligence agent was smart, and she may have said too much. So she decided to answer Huxley’s question instead. Turning to stare him in the face she continued, “So you would want me to serve the Federation in the capacity of a scientific advisor?”

“I am aware of the contribution you have made to the sciences as Mary Ward, later Mary Ducane. However as a Time Lord defector you could help us so much more.”

“Why would I want to do that?”

Both men answered. Dawkins offered her luxuries and a chance to see her family again. Huxley’s reply was something else. A year earlier he had interviewed Braxiatel as part of the diplomatic team on Gryben. No other Time Lord was willing to talk to the Federation, preferring to be kept hidden on one of the 9 Gallifreys. Braxiatel spoke of a one of his friends from the old universe. He had wondered whether his friend was still alive. Apparently a comrade during the Time War he had always been a bit of a renegade, going off to help the younger races. Not always popular with the High Council, however he was recalled to fight in the war because of certain skills and experience he brought to the table. If Romana was a renegade, she might have the same psychology and mindset as this so called Doctor. So Huxley gambled and he made his offer. “A chance to know you are making a difference.”

Romana paused. Huxley was sure he had found the bait. The Time Lord looked almost puzzled that a human could suggest such a thing. He was interrupted however when a stony face Admiral barged into the room. Stuck in academia he wasn’t sure who this Starfleet admiral was, however Dawkins was.

“What do I owe this pleasure Admiral Bashir?” Dawkins tried his best to be civil.

“You are to release Lieutenant Commander Mary Ducane to my custody. She is still a Starfleet officer and we look after our own.”

“Then we have no argument. The person you knew as Mary Ducane is gone. She was never more than a fiction created by the Time Lords to punish one of their own. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend, and as such her actions need to be supervised by my department.” Dawkins remembered the debacle with Chronotis, and how the other Time Lord had escaped his prison in the Delphic Expanse. So far both him and the Wight were still at large.

“I don’t care what you say, the Federation grants rights to all its citizens and I will not have you and your Section 31 wannabes trampling over the constitution.” The insult stung. With the destruction of the Right Wing Fleet and the Section’s dismal performance, it had been subsumed by regular intelligence. The constitution did not grant Intelligence the same leeway it had Section 31 and that galled Dawkins.

“You try and take her and there will be hell to pay..”

“No you listen to me..” By now both men were shouting.

“It is ok Admiral. Mr Huxley has convinced me to work for the Federation, under supervision. However there are conditions. The first one is that I see my family again.” With that statement, Romana ended the argument. There was still some negotiation involved in the terms, however believing he had secured a triumph, Dawkins was more willing to be reasonable. Before too long Romana once again was with Ducane. A reunion she was secretly dreading.


* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
22 nd century

Silik oversaw the mind wipe of the Enterprise crew, as they lay connected to their mind probes. A few of them had been selected to die in the escape. After all, it there were no losses it would look a bit suspicious. Gesturing to one of the crew he asked for the man’s name and ordered him brought over. The ensign was expecting to join his crew mates in being connected to the mind probes. The look of surprise however gave way to one of defiance.

“Ensign Hong Chen San, military number K99 alpha 1 ahhh…”

Various Suliban spared an occasional glance to see the ensign’s form being eaten away as the nuclear disruption force inherent in most Alpha Quadrant weapons took effect. Other Enterprise crew were murdered to give the impression that the rest had made it back to Enterprise. Soon the survivors would be released believing they had escaped. New memories had been implanted. The Vulcan mind meld wasn’t wide spread yet, so their Master was confident his machinations would not be detected. In a game of 3 dimensional chess, one must sacrifice the pawns to capture the king, and Silik’s benefactor was more than willing to do that.


* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

“What now Master?” Silik bowed to the projection.

“Archer will go on to help form the United Federation of Planets as history states he will. By the 31 st century the Federation will fight a war against the Time Lords.”

“Time Lords?”

His Master ignored Silik’s question. But such was the way for those who held power and knowledge over those that did not. “In all likelihood, this Federation will be defeated by Gallifrey. Then we will move in. We will emerge the victor in all this.”

“What shall we do in the interim?”

“We hide, gather our strength. What is 9 centuries to a Time Lord anyway?”

Silik then saw an image on the screen. It was an image of Earth. For once his benefactor indulged Silik’s curiousity. He answered the Suliban’s unspoken question. “My base of operations. The natives called it Earth before I took over.”

Silik knew he was looking at a parallel time line. For all his failures and faults, he wasn’t stupid. “On this Earth, what happened to the human race?”

“There is no human race. There is only the Master race.”
* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Notes
1. Romana in her third incarnation was described as having black hair. The writers supposedly based her appearance on American silent film actress Louise Brooks.

2. The ginger joke is from when Christopher Eccleston regenerated into David Tennant, the new doctor remarked “Not ginger.” This was again done by Matt Smith when he said “Still not a ginger.” So I figured lets have a ginger now.

3. The remark about her friend joking he was half human was from the horrible horrible horrible 1996 movie, where Paul McGann’s doctor remarked he was suddenly half human after 26 years of television. Fuck the writer who came up with that idea as well as a few other Trekisms which the film borrowed. My explanation for that is not some convuluted time line shit where only the 8 th doctor was half human, but simply that he was joking to take the piss out of the guy he was talking to.

4. Time Lord meta crisis was RTD’s awesome way to having a human doctor clone in the season 3 finale. Of course Donna also got affected with pieces of Time Lord mixed in with human DNA which apparently in RTD’s mind leads to “The win”. Anyway I figured it could work the other way round as well. One more thing. It won’t be an instant win button here. Its use is just to help Romana better understand what it means to be human.

5. Hong Chen Shan is a play on Chinese words to create an in joke. It literally translates as red shirt. And we all know what happens to red shirts on Trek don’t we?

6. The history of early Time Lord society is written in such a way as to be ambiguous. I have taken numerous sources from EU sources, however it could be interpreted as just legend even for the Time Lords or true and the UFP interrogators don’t believe it. I think this way keeps both sides happy.

7. Romana’s interrogators were named by combining the names of famous scientists in the field of evolution.

8. The prophecy of the Timewyrn was mentioned in various novels. As to whether its true…
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Blayne »

Isn't Huxley a name for a famous dystopian thriller novel as well?

Also red haired Romana? Hawt.

Was that our only Doctor cameo :(
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Themightytom »

Blayne wrote:Isn't Huxley a name for a famous dystopian thriller novel as well?

Also red haired Romana? Hawt.

Was that our only Doctor cameo :(
No no no, he's said "The doctor got lost in the multiverse" now Mr. Friendly can write an entire spin off fanfiction about what happens to the doctor, which will lead back to the sequel of this one, even as spinoff characters from THAT fanfiction...

Oh wait he isn't AlbertG

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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by tortieconspiracy »

Blayne wrote:Isn't Huxley a name for a famous dystopian thriller novel as well?
I'm not aware of any such novel, but the author of the dystopian novel Brave New World was a guy named Aldous Huxley.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Highlord Laan »

tortieconspiracy wrote:
Blayne wrote:Isn't Huxley a name for a famous dystopian thriller novel as well?
I'm not aware of any such novel, but the author of the dystopian novel Brave New World was a guy named Aldous Huxley.
Brave New World. An...interesting read, if nothing else. I didn't like it much, but I read it in the eighth grade, so that's not surprising.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by mr friendly guy »

Themightytom wrote:
Blayne wrote:Isn't Huxley a name for a famous dystopian thriller novel as well?

Also red haired Romana? Hawt.

Was that our only Doctor cameo :(
No no no, he's said "The doctor got lost in the multiverse" now Mr. Friendly can write an entire spin off fanfiction about what happens to the doctor, which will lead back to the sequel of this one, even as spinoff characters from THAT fanfiction...

Oh wait he isn't AlbertG
Albert G is quite a good writer and he used to post on this board. The problem is, once he builds up his own continuity you have to read his previous works to get it as opposed to simply being a fan who has seen a lot of Star Trek or Babylon 5. Fortunately I started reading his works in the early stages so continuity wise I can keep track of whats happened.

That being said I just wanted the Doctor out the way of the Master can come to the fore. If I were to write anothe fan fiction the idea I sort of have is the Master, er I mean Harold Saxon ending up with the Doctor's TARDIS in the ST universe at the height of the Dominion War and becoming president of the UFP.

Next chapter - we revisit Braxton forcing Sisko out of the Celestial Temple, and we find out who those other friends Braxton brought back really are. Plus we see a metafiction critique of wank tech in Doctor Who (yeah ok it does serves a point plot wise, but I thought it would be interesting).
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Blayne »

OOoooo thanks for the link, the guy wrote some Turtledove fanfiction I'm gonna have to read. (World War series)
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Themightytom »

mr friendly guy wrote:
Albert G is quite a good writer and he used to post on this board. The problem is, once he builds up his own continuity you have to read his previous works to get it as opposed to simply being a fan who has seen a lot of Star Trek or Babylon 5. Fortunately I started reading his works in the early stages so continuity wise I can keep track of whats happened.
oh I wasn't commenting on his skill butt rather the elaborate inter woven nature of his stories.

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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by NecronLord »

Related fact, for those that don't know. The real Richard Dawkins is married to Lalla Ward, who played Romana's second incarnation.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by mr friendly guy »

Not to mention that Dawkins himself appeared in the episode "The stolen Earth".
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Blayne »

I read about that from wikipedia before Stolen Earth was released, I was like "hey thats cool." Dawkins gained like 5 cool points from that.
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by mr friendly guy »

Chapter 11

29 th century

“A penny for your thoughts.”

“Q”. Braxton welcomed the distraction. He had been held in this prison while they decided what to do with him. The trial had been quick, the evidence against him was clear cut. His pleas that he was doing it for the Federation had fallen on death ears. The fact that Mary, no Romana had decided to help the Federation destroyed whatever “ends justifies the means” argument he would have made. Couldn’t they see she only did so because he had demonstrated how far the Federation was willing to go to protect itself?

“You know they will send you not to any old prison colony. You are too important for that.”

“I suspect Bajor or one of the Delta Quadrant colonies.” Braxton ascented.

“Well we can’t have that can we?”

“You will free me?”

“Currently your surveillance system is unable to detect me. Those guards watching on the monitor will just see you starring into space, just like what you have been doing for the last hour or so.”

“Why?”

“You are needed for my plans.” With that Q placed his hand on Braxton’s shoulder. The former admiral felt a tinge of heat, but other than that no pain. “I have marked you.” Q explained.

“This mark.”

“It allows me and me alone, not anyone else from the continuum to find you.”

“Not that I am ungrateful, but don’t you Q tend to limit your interference in our affairs?”

“The stakes are too high. Currently the civil war has reached a cease fire while the continuum debates with the other higher powers about what we should do about the Time Lords. This gives me the opportunity to save you.”

“Then there is a chance you may help end Gallifrey?” Braxton voice lit up with hope.

“I told you, the other side has a non aggression treaty with them. Its only the war with Fluidic Space that the Organians and others have petitioned the Q for council.”

This was going above Braxton’s head. “War? What war?”

“It hasn’t happened yet.” Q spoke exasperated. “But it will. The others aren’t happy with what the Time Lords have, or will do. The problem is the continuum is hell bent on finishing our internecine conflict so they won’t intervene.”

Braxton’s wanted to ask more questions but he was not given the opportunity. Q had simply teleported them out.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

29 th century – Utopia Planitia ship yards

The Utopia Planitia ship yards had for centuries was the back bone of ship building in the Federation. Until the creation of mega Delta Quadrant ship yards in what was once Borg space, it remained the most productive shipyard within the Federation. It was here that Braxton had the new Star ships and Time ships built for the Sliders project. It was here where he would reclaim the fruits of his labours.

“Computer, activate emergency command holograms, code Braxton alpha 2537101 T.”

“That code is no longer recognised.” The computer replied in the usual female business like voice.

Of course they would disable his access codes. However he had computer programmers build an illegal backdoor for him. “Computer transfer command codes to me, code Trojan delta 2243462 G.”

“Access authorised. Recognise sentient as Braxton. You now have full command of the Time ship Heisenberg.”

“Now, computer activate emergency command holograms.”

“Acknowledged.”

In the case the crew was disabled, newer ships were designed with emergency command holograms to replace every function. Heisenberg’s holograms even had different appearances based on function. The emergency Captain looked like captain Kirk in his younger days while the soldiers were based on the Soong class androids which would have led Federation assault teams in the 25 th century. Taking command of the ship Braxton caused the ship to go into quantum slipstream. He didn’t want Time Fleet or anyone tracing his time travel so he opted for the more primitive form of FTL. Once he was away he would activate the slide.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The had refused to give up pursuit of him even in slipstream. Already his shields were down to 15% as subatomic disruptors battered them. The UFP was not going to give up their new ship, not by a long shot.

“Computer, evasive manoeuvres Picard alpha 3.”

The Heisenberg jerked away as advanced quantum torpedoes narrowly raked its shields. We have no choice Braxton thought. We need to slide now. “Computer activate dimensional tunnel for sliding.”

“That function has been tested for this ship.”

“Then we test it now. Drop us out of slipstream and go to warp.” With any luck the faster slipstream ships will overshoot him while he was at warp. Just enough time for him to slide. As he predicted the pursuing Starfleet flew past him. Ordering his ship to turn about Braxton activated the dimensional tunnel. He could see the wormhole appearing and his ship flew into it. Not before he was hit with more enemy fire. The shields were completely down, however he was inside the wormhole which had now closed. Soon he will be in the same universe of the Time Lords.

Braxton savoured his triumph as he observed the dimensional bridge. It was he decided beautiful to look at, however he had never bothered with such things before. All that mattered was vengeance. At first he saw it at the corner of his eye. Then it became more clear, and it wasn’t just a trick of the wormhole. “Do you see that?”

“Please specify.”

“Its like a hand, a giant orange hand.”

“Negative.”

No. It must the temporal psychosis playing up again Braxton thought. I have come too far to fail now. He ignored the hand as it crept closer and closer. He ignored it as it breached the ship’s hull. He ignored it as it was right above his head. He could not ignore it as it touched him, for Braxton screamed. It was like the hand of god had touched him, and he felt blessed.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
24 th century – Bajoran wormhole

“Who are you?” Sisko asked. He sensed the stranger was dangerous.

“I was Captain Braxton of the Federation Timeships Aeon and Relativity.” Braxton could feel the madness coming on. Since he was touched by the hand of god he could see the future, but elation was soon replace with madness. “I am sorry it has to come to this Captain Sisko. You were one of my heroes, along with Kirk and Spock when I was a boy. However I have done more than travel through time. I have transversed other realities and seen much. It has its price. The madness spreads. Oh the burning, oh the burning so bright.” His statement was followed with maniacal laughter.

Sisko gathered his strength, preparing to expel the intruder, however he was interrupted by Braxton’s ranting.

“The ancient enemies will gather at the gates of the Celestial Temple. On that day the Gods themselves will die.”

The gates of the Celestial Temple was battered as a time ship appeared. It was saucer shape, and experienced battle damage. Its shields were weaken and there was a gaping hole in its section. Nevertheless it was still producing high amounts of chroniton radiation which would prove fatal to the Prophets. They did the only thing they could do. They fled, dragging Sisko with them.

“Was the Celestial Temple not all I told you it would be?”

From out the time ship, a man emerged. He was crippled and moved by means of a motorised device, which also served as his life support. A prosthetic blue eye attached to his forehead allowed him to see. He surveyed all around him and he spoke. His voice was staccato and most humans would find it irritating. “Yes. You have done well.”

From out of the time ship a few Daleks came. The survivors from the battle with the Nightmare Child. They would need to replenish their numbers. But when that happened the universe will tremble. The gods themselves will die, hadn’t Braxton foretold it?

“From the here inside a wormhole we will rebuild. The Daleks will live again. We will triumph over this universe.” Davros shrieked.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The new arrivals would not go unnoticed forever. The disappearance of the Bajoran wormhole will remain a puzzle for centuries to come. By the 30 th century Q the younger would notice his mark on the man named Braxton. His pawn had found allies as he suspected he would, and to remain hidden from his sight, that took some doing. Whether these new comers prove useful was another matter. Either way, the Celestial Temple bore watching.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
29 th century

“Is Mary dead. Was she even real?” Ducane spoke those words accusingly and to Romana they hurt.

“She was created by Rassilon to punish me. When he overthrew the old President..” Romana paused recalling unpleasant memories. “Friends of the old President were also dealt with. So it was my fate.”

“So Mary is dead now. What she and I shared is all gone.”

“Not true, she is a part of me now.” Holding Ducane’s hand she placed it on her chest, above the first heart. “Feel this.” Now Romana moved the hand over her second heart. “Now feel my other heart.”

It was at this point, that Ducane saw his wife crying for the first time.

“We Time Lords are said to be a cold species. We do feel, we do love but compared to humans we feel less. Not all of us are like this. There are those who eschew Gallifreyan society and leave. Some seek to make their own empires, others look for adventure, righting wrongs, helping the weak. I think those of us who leave, can feel more than humans do.” Romana paused as if to try and find the words. “I think I have become like these renegades. I experience emotion as they do, and I find it frightening and exhilarating at the same time. Do you understand what it is like for me?”

Ducane held his wife close. “I think I can.” He thought of the Vulcans in the Gol’s children cult. “Your appearance is totally different. You are literally not the woman I fell in love with, but you are also Jay’s mother, and I want to get to know you, for the second time.”

There was no need for further words.


* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

They were situated in a holodeck serving as a lecture theatre. A holodeck was chosen as Romana could ask the computer to put up any display she wanted. The experts in the crowd, professors in their own respective field could only hear what Romana said and asked any questions via Huxley. Neither Romana nor the experts could see the other. A holographic simulation would be what everyone else but Huxley saw. This was a security measure, one of many instituted by Dawkins. For all his faults, the man knew how to perform his duty. The less people who knew what Romana looked or sounded like, the better the Federation could keep hidden its secret weapon. They didn’t need mobs or another Braxton making life difficult for her. This was the second meeting arranged. The first one they had discussed Time Lord regeneration. There were quite a few medical personnel in that meeting. This time the discussion would be more on the physics and materials science dealing with time travel and time ships.

“Your time travel doesn’t work by immersing yourself in the Vortex like ours does. From what my..” Romana paused, she was about to say husband but thought better of it. “From what my colleagues have said, it seems your time ships skim the edge of the vortex, occasionally entering. This limits how far you can travel forwards and backwards in time.” Romana explained. The Federation still had a long way to go before they could come anywhere near the precision and abilities of even the old type 40 TARDISes.

“What about our latest models? Our source managed to copy certain aspects of Time Lord technology.” It was Huxley who spoke.

“I won’t speculate where you got that from. There is only one problem, it won’t work.”

“How did…Well we did send a few Cravic class robots through but they never made it back even though the ship returned intact.”

“Copying the technology won’t do you any good. Rassilon instituted several safeguards. One needs the symbiotic print of the Rassilon Imprimature to work the machine. Once a Time Lord has used the machine, their symbiotic print will be absorbed into the briode-nebuliser and then anyone will be able to use the machine. Once the print has run out, you are back to the beginning again. If you ask me you are better off making your own version of a TARDIS.”

One of the viewers wanted Huxley to ask what happened to the robots. “They are likely lost in the vortex,” Romana stated. “Chances are you won’t be able to find them.”

“How is it your ships are bigger on the inside than the outside. Captain Matthew Smith when he negotiated a treaty with Gallifrey in the 26 th century mentioned that its dimensionally transcendental.”

“Think of the outside as a gateway to another universe with the control panel on the inside controlling where the outside gate travels to.”

“Are you saying that the inside of your ships is a separate universe.” Huxley asked incredulously.

“Isn’t that just what I said? Before you ask the next question, the inside has about the equivalent volume of a small planet, like Mars or Earth.”

“Well I guess given the size of Gallifrey you would consider Earth a small planet. Moving on, another one of our honoured guests wants to know what material the outside of a TARDIS is constructed from.”

“Block transfer computations?”

“These are...”

“The power of mathematic formulae themselves which can create objects and affect space time. We appropriated this technology form the Logopolitans, and used it for various applications.”

“Sounds a lot like magic, the same magic Rassilon supposedly banished.”

“Who was it that said sufficiently advanced technology would seem like magic?”

“I take your point. Can our computers be programmed with these formulae?”

Romana shook her head. “The calculations themselves would alter the computer. Either organic beings have to do it or use very advanced computers. Which you don’t have. In any event, even while I was on Gallifrey, they were already starting to use quantum mnemonics as well as block transfer computations to create TARDISes. Before you ask quantum mnemonics is similar but much more powerful. Its can twist reality and probability and works by superimposing the laws of physics of the universe which came before ours.”

“Ooookay.” Huxley paused. This was really deep. It was also fantastic. Universes coming before this one. Advance science behaving like magic. This was the stuff of great holo novels. If this was fiction he would be saying that author had imagination. Too bad it was real, and the Time Lords had the technology and he was determine the Federation would not fall too far behind.

“Another question. How do your ships generate so much power? Long range scanners have seen them move entire planets without needing to generate a weight reducing static warp field.”

“They draw energy from their own Eye of Harmony.”

“This Eye of Harmony, it’s a singularity isn’t it? As early as the 24 th century the Romulans were using quantum singularities to power their Warbirds. They couldn’t match Omega powered engines. How is it the Time Lords generate so much power.”

“The Eye of Harmony draws energy from the vortex. Within the time vortex there is vast energy to tap. The rules of physics are different and more amenable to power generation.”

“Yes, you mentioned this in an earlier interview. That E doesn’t equal mc squared in the vortex, but cubed. Are you saying if we use a primitive matter anti matter reaction in the vortex we could generate 300 000 times what an old style Galaxy class ship could produce. This would make it much more powerful than modern day ships of the line.”

“You would still need to be able to harness that energy,” Romana spoke dismissively.

“Perhaps for weapons then.”

“The Minyans already did that for their fission grenades.” If the visual recorders weren’t on, Huxley would be furiously scribbling down notes. This woman was turning out to be a gold mine.

Huxley suddenly held his earpiece. “One of the professors have asked you to explain this biodata concept again. It sounds like a time line equivalent to DNA. The concept is nonsensical according to our understanding of temporal physics.”

“That is one way of looking at it. Just like how you can scan time for events that are out of place, we can scan time for the genetics of a person and hence see what has happen and what will happen. Such events are recorded in time, if you will, and holding genetic material just allows us to zoom in on these events. Once we have this information, its possible to corrupt a person’s time line through say a virus, or bend it over itself and create multiples of that person from alternate time lines.”

“A virus which can corrupt time? Are you saying Gallifrey could simply create an entire army from one person by manipulating their time line?”

“To answer your question, yes and we have in the past. Some Time Lord agents started out this way. In my universe cloning technology, much more advanced than what the old Dominion fielded, while not common isn’t unheard of. Several species have such technology, so in a potential conflict Gallifrey needed to be able to create vast armies on short notice. How do you think we came close to matching the Daleks industrial capacity given they had the Seriphia galaxy and more under their control?”

“So the Lamarck soldiers aren’t really necessary except as a template?”

“Correct.”

On it went, for four hours. Most Starfleet cadets would have been eager to leave after two, however these professors were only too eager to stay. An embarrassed Huxley had to stop the session. What Romana had said was frightening. Even Chronotis never gave so much information. Soon it will dawn on even the hawks within the Federation just how far behind the Time Lords they were. However this would soon be matched by a determination to catch up.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Far future - galaxy far far away

A lone Federation time ship made its way through the dead system. The civilisation here had not reached warp status and had written their own nuclear Armageddon. This was perfect. An uninhabited system, away from Gallifrey’s prying eyes.

The USS Praeteritus, the only ship that remained of the once proud Time Fleet. Scans had already told them there were no other Federation ships in this era. Nor was there any Federation at all. The temporal disruptions had left most of the Alpha Quadrant uninhabitable.

Attempts to time travel to the past had been blocked, Gallifrey rigourously patrolling time itself, not to mention the Legions infestation of time was worse than before. However the Time Lords were less likely to look into the future. What in the future could possibly threaten you when you control the present and the past? Unfortunately, what you don’t know can and will hurt you. It was here the final gambit would be played out in a place far from home.

We didn’t know he thought. We never believed that Gallifrey could time loop entire sectors of the galaxy. Recriminations for the wars outcome would have to wait, for here at this moment another debate was raging.

“We can settle here, far from Gallifrey’s reach. We can rebuild the Federation into something better.” The woman spoke from the heart, however it was clear from the mood that she was in the minority.

“We have our orders. Admiral Gough was very specific on this point.” The speaker was Tandaran. Or more specifically he was of mixed heritage. He was a Captain, however rank meant little now.

“Orders? We do not have to follow illegal orders. Don’t you understand, there is no more Federation. We don’t have to follow the orders of a man long dead.” It was the human woman again.

“Yet you are quite keen to rebuild the Federation.”

“I believe our orders are clear, but in this situation, where there is no precedent, lets take a vote.” A third person spoke up, interrupting the two. This speaker was a Vulcan male.

“Very well then. Let the votes be tallied. All in favour.” The show of hands was unanimous. “Those against.” A few hands were raised. “Those abstaining.” No one raised their hands.

“Then its settled.” It was the Vulcan who spoke.

“Agreed.” The Tandaran spoke again. “We initiate the scorch Earth policy.”

The Praeteritus activated its inverse tachyon pulse. The particle scan breached the subspace barrier separating time and anti-time. With that anti-time will escape, travelling into the past until it destroyed Gallifrey. The Federation and other civilisations from untold galaxies would also be destroyed, or rather never have existed. However from their perspective, the Federation was already dead so why should it matter?

Anti-time rushed out buffering the time ship. It was quicker than expected. The temporal shields were fading against the onslaught. The time ship had planned to go further into the future, but the rush of anti-time was interfering with navigation. Instead the time ship ended up being hurled back into the past, and crash landed on a Tandaran colony. Before that the crew had already died as life support was damaged beyond repair. However the ships own chameleon protocols activated an advanced hologram and disguised it as a Tandaran artefact.

For the crew of the Praeteritus their nightmare had ended. For the universe at large, it was only just beginning.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *





Notes
1. Explaination of quantum mnemonics occur in the novel “Millennia Rites.” According to one website the Time Lords had discovered quantum mnemonics but at present haven’t managed to reproduce the technology on a vast scale as most TARDISes were still constructed using the old block transfer computations. Its speculated that this may be similar to Omega’s ability to create things out of thin air in his universe.

2. I thought I might put a little metafiction critique on the wank tech and the fanwank occurring in Who. I should point as stupid and magic as it sounds, it can’t get as bad as Star Trek Voyager’s disease from wank weapon causing peoples cells to undergo nuclear fission.

3. The classic story “The time monster” mentions that E = mc cubed in the time vortex.

4. Minyan fission grenade appeared in the classic story “Underworld.” Each light weight hand held grenade was rated at 1000 MT. Two of them destroyed a small asteroid. Obviously nuclear fission cannot generate that much power (just look at the calcs for photon torpedoes) so I took the liberty that in this case “fission” involved much more than nuclear fission.

5. Several species with wank cloning tech include the humans and hath “Doctor’s daughter” and of course the Sontarons.

6. Block transfer computations were discussed in the classic story “Logopolis.”
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

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Blayne
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Blayne »

Hrrm, this is seemng like the end is either a foregone conclusion or a bad future that the past federation has to avert.

I generally thought of 'magic' as always simply science where 'theory' and 'practical application' were the same instantaneous step.
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mr friendly guy
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by mr friendly guy »

The thing is, does interference from the future Federation make things better? Keep in mind though that there is a third force that hasn't made its presence felt so much yet. The Master Race, who has now discovered the remains of the USS Praeteritus. Does that mean history has changed? Perhaps. But the Master race definitely remains a wild card in this.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Blayne
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Re: Star Trek / Doctor who crossover - Time War

Post by Blayne »

Usually in stories where a bad future is shown or hinted/foreshadowed as the case here either ALL of the events thus far in the story and the ones yet to come will enevitably lead to it happening regardless of characters actions (see DollHouse and Terminator) OR Usually it means that (especially if convenient time travel is involved) history will be changed by the actions of said characters who became aware of the new future.

Being NuWho X Star Trek I suspect it is the later Word of God notwithstanding :) I'm just explaining my reasoning based from being a tvtropes Hermit.

The above story plot is sounding similar to the sason finale of ST:TNG where stuff happened backwards in time and Picard in each era had to do crap or Q would do mean things.

So basically we have a number of futures:

1. OTL: Gallifrey enters ST:Universe and does shit, Feds eventually catchup and war ensures.

Feds and Alhpa Quadrant get fucked and maybe Gallifrey as well.

So NuFeds go to some planet in the future and send anti time minevksi particles to the past altering the timeline.

2. New Timeline, particles + timeship make their way to ST:ENT era and things roll differently from there bad future averted? Confirmed? Subverted?

ALL HAIL TV TROPES!
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