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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)


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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-06 03:06pm
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Ah, thank you for all the interest...

the second half of this discussion, in which they argue it out, should be up next, possibly preceded (about a quarter of a year late) by another bit of Squelch.

I did make a start on a trek crossover, although I was experimenting by trying to do it in script format, and it's still full of bits like [insert action here]; still outline stages, really, and a long time spent on the back burner.

For instance;


'Captain, the corbomite maneuver-'
[blah blah reflect, blah blah peaceful, defence against aggression, blah factor of 10]-

'Right, that's definitely an act of war.' Lennart said. 'You've just tried to kill my chief engineer, he's rolling around on the deck laughing and I'm not sure he's going to recover.

As he was in the process of keeling over, he muttered a few things, something about whether you'd forgotten about conservation of mass and energy or whether you thought we had, something about the economics of perpetual motion and, oh yes, “pull the other one, it's got quantums on.”

Did you have a plan B?'



Thinking about it and trying to reconcile the history and the contradictions, it's actually a lot easier to declare the original series and TNG-and-after parallel universes, clearly variations on the same theme but fairly radically divergent in technical, demographic, industrial, astrographic factors- and especially in the psychology of their citizens. I much prefer the original series, and fancy it's chances rather better as well.

One [Spock impression] fascinating [/Spock impression] piece of, not sure if it could actually be called "fan" fiction, is actually over on Warships1- http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/5984/The-Captains-Speak- based on the conceit that what we actually saw was an in- universe officially Starfleet backed docu-drama, and goes on, in investigative-journalism format, to explain what was really happening behind the scenes. Good stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-06 05:08pm
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Remembering the context of the original corbomite maneuver, ECR, something very like that may have happened. That enormous "First Federation" ship had a vast margin of superiority, was the product of a science far beyond anything the Federation had, and anyone aboard it had to know perfectly well that it was in no danger whatsoever from 'corbomite' or any other force at the Federation's command.

The entire series of hazards, maneuvers, and gambits Kirk went through to avoid being destroyed by the aliens makes far more sense when interpreted as Balok (the pilot of the huge alien ship) putting the Enterprise, its officers and its crew through their paces in a string of tests, for his own inscrutable purposes. Consider, for example, how ships belonging to some of the other Star Trek races might have behaved under the same circumstances- Klingons, Romulans, later on post-TOS forces like the Borg.

If you're trying to figure out what the hell is going on with these primitive aliens who are poking around the fringes of your space, and you're that confident in the superiority of your technology, you can do worse than to leave the equivalent of a baited trap out, catch them in the act of dealing with it, and see how they respond.

To be fair, too, in a galaxy with the sheer diversity of different technologies for doing more or less the same things (like "shipboard energy weapon") that we see in Star Trek, the idea that your neighbor might have developed some kind of weird beam weapon reflector you can't readily imagine is somewhat more plausible.

EDIT: Who knows, maybe Lennart and Balok would get along rather well. And since the Fesarius's full capabilities are never really addressed... well, I'd love to see the look on Lennart's face if he finds out not everyone in that galaxy are a pack of cavemen after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-06 06:03pm
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Well, if the time is right, Lennart might be shocked. :wtf:
Corbomite, to mesh up your day, lately reintroduced in the 2370´s since being mothballed since 2262.
Don´t worry, we will sling-shot around the sun so we can watch it all again. :roll: 8) :wink: :mrgreen:

Basically a: "Your shots will power our shields." :angelic:



Nothing like the present.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-06 08:48pm
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Although that's secondary-canonicity; Star Trek video games and novels are pretty far down the totem pole in those regards.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-28 04:25pm
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This should actually be longer, but I like the line it ended on, so what the hell. Synchrony's like that; all three seem to ahve come together at more or less the same moment.


'Wrong, not necessarily. Crazy, definitely.' Mirannon pointed out. 'If I follow your logic- don't laugh-' he added that bit glaring at Aleph-3, 'you're basically talking about the empire without the dark side, which makes about as much sense as gravity without momentum.'

'Which you can actually do.' Lennart gave his old friend the feed line he was looking for.

'Yes, with a boatload of complicated machinery that requires skill and constant supervision and has many, many unplanned failure modes- diverse ways of going horribly wrong.' Mirannon pointed out. 'I smell a lunatic crusade in the air.'

'Have you ever heard of a sane crusade?' Lennart pointed out.

'This...isn't going to qualify.' Brenn decided. 'Really? We didn't like the official rebellion, so we decide to start our own? All right, I suppose there's precedent, but- '


'Can we worry about the details for a moment?' Aleph-3 said. Partly stalling, and she expected Lennart at least to figure that out. As an ex talent scout for the dark side, she knew Mirannon was right.

Am I supposed to be ashamed of that now, she wondered. I knew more than most- enough to fill in a few of the blanks here, I expect- and went with it anyway, didn't really see it in terms of good and evil at all.

Only in terms of passive and active, the dead past and the living future, of being on the side of the strong against the weak, which was hardly moral at all but much more conducive to survival; of the juggernaut of galactic history rolling over those stupid enough to stand in it's way, against those stupids and their choice to sacrifice themselves in what seemed a futile gesture.

Willing handmaiden of oppression may be an understatement, she thought, looking at her captain; I think I understand what I see in him, but what did he see in me?

And now here we are preparing to sacrifice ourselves more or less willingly in- hang on a moment, that might just be the answer, she realised. Bet he's come up with it as well and is just waiting for someone else to bring it up so it doesn't seem so entirely mad- and if only it wasn't exactly like what the Dark Side would say.

Actually at that precise point, what he was seeing was someone who had lost her train of thought, and the others were all looking at her as well. Ah.


'Look far enough ahead to see what, who we would and wouldn't be up against, and what actually seems within the bounds of possibility?' she suggested.

'Or in other words, "if you have to do this damn' silly thing, don't do it in this damn' silly way"?' Lennart queried her.

'I didn't actually say that.' She pointed out. 'I will quote you, though- recognising that what we have to do is fundamentally insane seems the first step towards a working battle plan.'

'When did I say that?' Lennart said, confused. 'It sounds like me, and it's appropriate, but I don't remember coming out with it. Not recently, anyway. '

She looked worried for a second. 'Actually, I don't remember it either. Possibly you haven't...yet.'

'Is that really supposed to be a mystic portentous prediction, or just an educated guess?' Mirannon snorted. 'You had some sort of family tree up earlier?' he added to Lennart.


'Yes, and I am willing to wander off into this apparent tangent...' Lennart said. 'We actually found a lot of this data in the Imperial archives, where it was so heavily sealed and protected against legitimate access that only a slicer could have got to it.

We have what is effectively a register of Dark Jedi, in fact, through the list of exemptions issued referent to the Dangerous Cults Act. Ultra top secret classification, impossible to get at legitimately- the list of those known subject to the act is barely even Restricted.

The exemptions, the pro forma freedom to practise the dark side of the Force, match some of the known names, and there are others for whom it explains a lot, as they were not previously known to have the force- most of Palpatine's inner circle is there, for a start.

There will be some who aren't, entire other force traditions uncontacted and unregistered, and no doubt the odd secret apprentice- but by definition if they're out of the loop, they're irrelevant. Until they start trying to kill us, and we'll disintegrate that bridge when we come to it.

There are all sorts of groups, organisations, coteries, call them whatever you choose, but I think we can identify four separate grades or breeds of the children of the night.


First and foremost, and a little above our league at the moment although if we could manage to get them on the ground, in the open, on their own, and lay down a barrage- hm. The wolves of the dark side come first, although bear with sore head might be more appropriate for most of them.

These are the independently powerful who have no intention of remaining merely so, who have ambitions and plans beyond their already high station. There are few of them, because the conspirators actually seem to have a point; and if they are not among the leaders of the conspiracy, they have to be among it's targets.

Apart from His Infernal Majesty, of course, the first name on the list has to be Vader. In the rule of two, once you accept Palpatine is the arch-monster, he is the obvious Sith Apprentice.

Also, in all probability, take off the breath mask and you'd find Anakin Skywalker underneath, which could pose an interesting constitutional crisis.'


'Kriffing smeg. I can't believe nobody publicly put two and two together,' Brenn said, 'the Hero of the Republic disappears, the Executor of the Empire appears- and the rebel who landed the fluke, miracle shot that blew up the Death Star, wasn't that Luke Skywalker?'

'So far so good, done the addition bit. Now integrate.' Lennart told him to carry on.

'Ah. Anyone who knew enough to guess there's a family connection- and the Force inherits, there's bound to be- is either smart enough to say nothing or playing politics with it, probably both. Still mindboggling, not least how Vader managed to reproduce; must have been before then.

So Anakin has a child then turns to the dark side-' or the stress of being a father is what turns him, Brenn stopped himself before he could say, but not before Rafaella guessed what he was going to say and glared at him anyway.

'The child's kidnapped by what remains of the Jedi, the escapers and survivors from Order 66,' he hurried on, 'and raised in the light side to- what? Kill his father? Damn' peculiar definition of light if you ask me.'


Rafaella and Aleph- 3 were both glaring at him now, and Lennart dug him out of the hole. 'Or kill Palpatine, which- a dark father and a light son would be a pretty spectacular variation on the rule of two, but- dubious in itself but it wouldn't be anywhere near the worst outcome for the galaxy.'

That distracted Aleph-3 at least; 'Ruling together as father and son? If that's what the prophecy about the chosen one bringing balance to the force meant, then it has almost as mad a sense of humour as you do.'

'I hope so, but it's track record makes me doubt it.' Lennart quipped, before saying more seriously 'It would also leave no balance at all between the force and the merely alive, the ordinary people who would be treated like cattle by the Dark and irrelevancies by the Light.'


'You are remembering that you do have the Force?' she asked him, as if seriously doubting it.

'Only until they find a cure.' Lennart bounced back. 'Or I find the third side of the two- sided coin.'

'You'd just start immediately looking for a fourth.' she shook her head, grinning. 'One wolf so far. Jerec?'

'Yes, although hardly a keen packmate. You know him?'

'By reputation and proxy.' She admitted. 'A great theorist and explainer of the Force, second only to His Majesty. He's apparently not particularly good about knowing or caring about things that aren't the Force, though. Thrawn knows him.'

'So that was what he meant.' Lennart realised, thinking back to one of their earlier clashes. 'I presume you pulled rank on his personal guard and got them to tell you all about it?'

'More or less. I'm not convinced he's a wolf- he fits your definition, but his hunger's more like that of a jackal. He'd rise against His Majesty in a heartbeat if he thought he could win, but he'd base his decision almost entirely on his mastery of the Force.

I'm not sure what state the galaxy would be in if he did though; he has- supposedly- the leadership style, and qualities, of a crusty old professor. Certainly he enjoys human misery and suffering, but in an offhand, academic way.' she said.


'Are you sure about that?' Lennart wondered. 'According to Alliance Cryptanalysis, he has a very broad network of contacts and subinfeuds- he's able to count on the loyalty of many more of the commonalty of the dark side than Vader is. Students, blackmail victims, loyal may be an overstatement but he has them.'

'How many of them would turn out for him, and how many of those are sane and competent enough to be genuinely dangerous?' Aleph- 3 shot back, wondering herself if she was being overconfident.

'It would be nice if you were right, if being batshit insane actually disqualified a being from high politics, but these days it's closer to being a prerequisite. It would be really good if it actually meant they were ineffective, too.' Lennart pointed out.

'How many times have you told me the reason for that- even if you didn't realise that was what you were talking about?' she replied.

'Ah, right, I follow your logic now.' he said, leaving her for a moment wondering if he really did and if he wasn't simply bluffing to string her along, before continuing 'I'm glad that you agree I was right-anyway, on.'


'Monsters, tyrants, monsters of the state.' Brenn changed the subject. 'Who's the third?'

'There are only two more real possibilities, and one of them makes no practical sense.' Lennart said not bothering to add, since when did that matter. 'The only other genuine, as opposed to self- deluding, lord of the Dark Side I can think of who stands a chance of revolting against His Majesty and winning is the Procurator of Justice, Hethrir.'

'Right, that makes sense. Also living proof that His Majesty has a very twisted sense of humour.' Brenn pointed out. 'A lot of the men who chose to separate have written back to us, and the state of the law is their number one bitching point.'

'I'm not convinced that's not mainly our lot.' Rythanor said. 'Most people survive- they shouldn't have to try that hard to survive their own government, and I don't like a lot of the trends, but right now we are collectively at most ankle deep in shit. In fact, we're doing pretty well for having openly psychotic evil in charge.

Hethrir's playing his own system, using it to squash people he doesn't like, support those he does, he's not wasting time and energy alienating people and making unnecessary enemies; fantastically corrupt of course, but intelligently corrupt. He's building his own independent power base with his authority.'


'Authority that Palpatine gave him.' Aleph-3 pointed out. 'Three wolves, all snapping at His Majesty's heels- all of which he knows about, and indulges them by occasionally throwing a bone to.'

'He also may be losing the plot.' Lennart said. 'We've speculated about that, and that is when the spectacular kriffups happen; when you lose your edge and don't or won't realise it, when you think you can still manage the risk, try it- and can't.

Palpatine was unquestionably brilliant, when he was younger- before he became Emperor. Now, Alderaan, the Tarkin Doctrine, the Senate- you can make the case that he no longer has the pressure on him to be that brilliant still, there's hardly anyone left he needs to out-think; so power makes stupid, after all.

The wolves are the ones who are close enough to him to realise that, actually.'


'You could set this up as a graph on two axes, power and ambition.' Mirannon pointed out. 'Your wolves are high positives in both, this is all relative and the origin certainly wouldn't be zero absolute but power without ambition, or at least which is actually getting what it wants from what it has, they would be your dogs- the loyal supports of the system.'

'There should be another wolf, and I can't think of any sufficiently, genuinely titanic name to put there. This wouldn't be a trick question, you wouldn't have put Yoda in there just to make some point about preconceptions?' Aleph- 3 speculated.

'If he had been capable of turning to the dark side, the galaxy would probably be a better place;' Lennart said. 'He would have done it, and the Jedi Order would have been able to get rid of him and grow again- and you're close, it is a name from the old days. Ventress.'

'Never accounted for, was she?' Mirannon remembered. 'Dooku's apprentice, the scalpel to Grievous' chainsaw, her fleet nearly killed me a few times during the Clone Wars. She was good, not nearly as much of a psychopath as he was, and if any of their leadership was actually a sincere separatist, it was her. Maybe she went awol because she knew too much- could see this coming.'

'Exactly the sort of wild card that destiny likes shafting absolutely everyone involved with, in fact.' Lennart pointed out. 'I include her as a possibility because it seems that Palpatine has- there have been feelers out for her from the Ubiqtorate recently, no trace. Which could mean long gone, out past the Rishi and heading for the Far Companions, or just well hidden.


Beneath them, the dogs- those of power but at least apparently fulfilled ambition, and you're right, the pillars of the system and it's, his, main defenders against the conspiracy; who might easily take against us if we get this wrong and interestingly, I don't think Adannan's nominal boss can be counted among them.

I'd put him down among the negative x, negative y, the sheep; without the power to fulfil their ambitions or the ambition to drive their power. Might have had once, that being how Ap-Lewff got to where he was, but he's been too close to the centre of things for too long, whatever he had swallowed up in Palpatine's shadow.

The ones that haven't, who the conspiracy has to either destroy or compromise with- who knew Kinman Doriana had the force?'

'Actually, I didn't.' Aleph-3 said, surprised. 'He's court, Emperor's Chamberlain or some such, household rather than political- been there for a very long time, and you think he's not swallowed up by the dark lord, a dog rather than a sheep?'

'I think he might be the closest thing the dark lord actually has to a friend; it looks as if Palpatine uses him as a field agent, fixer and hatchet man- he's had to depend on his own initiative far too long not to have one. Apart from Vader, and the Rear-Admiral, he's the most likely investigator- and one of the most likely targets.' Lennart said.


'Put up the full list.' Aleph- 3 suggested.

A quick bout of coding later, Lennart did- splitting it into a graph as his chief engineer had suggested, albeit something of an improvised one.

'Who are that group there?' pointing at a cluster of grey names off to one side.

'The fifth category? those who could not stand the pressure of having the force at all- those who sacrificed their sanity to it, and are of little use to anyone, even themselves; there are more than it seems here, between the dead and the not worth bringing up. A frightening proportion of whom seem to have names beginning with "K", in fact...

this group here are the likely conspirators, the people their careers or comms intercepts point to as the dissatisfied and hungry. Yes, there are a few really unpleasant surprises in that list.'


'Cronal?' Rythanor spotted then first ugly surprise.

'I considered counting him among the mad; his name starts with nearly a K after all.' Lennart, one place away in the alphabet, said. 'He's perfectly at home in the darkness, this-' waving at the chart of names- 'would be of no surprise to him at all, but it seems as if the sheer quantity of information flowing to him, and that was his special talent in the force, pushed him into deep paranoia.

Intelligence service, enormous access, belief that everyone was out to get him, demotion from that position- the only reason not to consider him the likely head of the conspiracy is that it's too probable. Not fun to have as an enemy at all.

This is where it gets arguable; of six people nearly in the same position, we're assuming one dog, three sheep, and two cornered rats. Mas Amedda was close to Palpatine, when the senate mattered, but he's done nothing for years, not even enough to comfortably call him a sheep- and the messages intercepted by the Ubiqtorate indicate he's chafing at it.

He has at least once referred to Palpatine in extremely unflattering terms as "the great frog", which would be little to base anything on unless it was part of a pattern. High position but no real rank, not much more than the curator of Palpatine's private museum.


The other potential cornered rat from right there in the inner circle is Janus Greejatus. He is known to be ambitious, to have little going for him outside court- Doriana occasionally gets sent to sort something out, he doesn't; and to have done something recently that was beyond the pale.

Shortly after the death star incident his remit was whittled down and he was basically confined to quarters, and has actually been caught by the Ubiqtorate- by Cronal, actually- trying to smuggle private messages out. He has ideas and ambitions, has drastically lost power, again the only reason he isn't searingly obviously a conspirator is that he may be too obvious.'

'Something else, skipper. Look at these names.' Mirannon pointed out. 'I think you've got an actual majority of the government in there. How you get from this to an Empire without the Dark Side, kriff knows- sending Coruscant Prime supernova might be the only way to go.'

'Well,' Aldrem pointed out, 'we're not that far from Centrepoint Station...'

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-28 05:21pm
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Huh.

Well, for me, not knowing much of the EU, these are mostly names I don't know- especially the people with positions of influence in Palpatine's government, who are mostly filled out in comics and EU stories I've never read. But watching them filter through is interesting... let's see, the four categories are "wolves," "dogs," "sheep," and "cornered rats."

Didn't you identify that one Grand Admiral, what's his name, the one with the battle meditation, as being one of the 'sheep' chiefly because his power is relatively limited and his ambitions are fulfilled? Or am I getting that wrong, such that he becomes one of the dogs?

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-28 06:02pm
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Nial Declann? He's enjoying himself where he is, has authority and power and something useful to do- basically loyal to the system as it stands at the moment, which makes him one of the dogs. More likely to ascend to being a wolf than descend to being a cornered rat.

There are few of them, and the largest single source is probably actually those of the Inquisitorius who have managed to learn some genuine analytical and investigative ability along the way and made themselves useful to the state outside the relatively narrow field of jedi hunting; Mara Jade would probably be among that number, too. As would an interesting character who I have tentatively pencilled in as one of Aleph-3's genetic donors.

The actually fifth group were something of a surprise to me, it occurred when I was compiling my notes that there were some of them who were just too screwed in the head by the force to really belong to any side including their own.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-29 06:26am
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Kinman Doriana's not got long to live at this point in the history, right?



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-29 01:28pm
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Since his fate is left a blank, it's hard to say. My impression is that he may have gone mad with Force power and become uselessly corrupt, in which case it would explain why he's out of power.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-29 07:11pm
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Or he did something silly like challenge Palpy. Palpy seems to have the kind of sense of humor to leave him alive as part of the court, but without power.



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-30 02:23am
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ECR- just curious as to what you see as the weapon loadout for the Executor class

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-30 02:35am
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I'm gonna guess something like 100 times the turrets of a normal ISD, with a relative minimum of superheavy beams that throw shot significantly heavier (up around the 500 teraton/second range or up). Doesn't he pitch Executor as a fast battlecruiser- one that, thinking about it, seems to more closely resemble the "large cruiser," the dedicated killer of raiding cruisers like the Alaska-class in concept than it does a more traditional battlecruiser like the Mighty 'Ood.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-30 02:59am
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I'm guessing it's Bellator class times about 2.5. The Executor is rather short for its length, 1.3km tall IIRC, and has a Star Destroyer-sized docking bay in the ventral foresection, along with a significant fighter complement. It also has planetary occupation hardware and equipment, an ISD writ large. Let me go check Wookiee...

...

...ahh, here we go.

Wookieepedia wrote:
Armament
Turbolaser cannons (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8 )
Heavy turbolaser cannons (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8 )
Assault concussion missile tubes (250)
30 missiles each
Heavy ion cannons (250)
Phylon Transport Q7 tractor beam projectors (40)
Point-defense laser cannons (500)

Complement TIE series starfighters (144) (can number in their thousands if fully loaded)
AT-ATs (30)
AT-STs (40)
Prefabricated garrison bases (2)
Various other assault and support craft (total of 200)
Y-85 Titan dropships



As far as power output goes, it's an overgrown Mandator-class at 7.73^26 Watts. IIRC, Squadron 851's flagship, the Ivon Tichy, is a Mandator.

Looking...

Looking...yep. No clue on the Mandator's power output, though. 5E26? The Bellator is postulated here as 3.3E26 Watts.

So, maybe three or four Bellator-class cruisers equals one Executor-class?

EDIT: its acceleration sucks, only about 1200g. So it's a ship of the line, not a pursuit design.



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-30 03:37pm
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I hope nobody's all that surprised by the spoiler that the first line of the next part is likely going to be everybody (except possibly Mirannon) yelling at Pel Aldrem and telling him he's being a dangerous lunatic again.

Why the interest in Executor, just thinking of what they're likely to be chased by? In another place I sum my take on the class as, relative to an Imperator, four hundred times the volume, five hundred times the cost, a hundred and twenty times the firepower, and twenty times the survivability if you're lucky.

Massively powerful but well down the slope of diminishing returns, and not nearly as able to take fire as the last generation, or as they ought to be. Oh, and fast; that 1200 'g' is a wookiepedia number, and I have no idea who put it there, but it doesn't match the analysis done over at the Star Wars Technical Commentaries- which suggests that they are somewhere around the three thousand 'g' mark, from motion against the background at Endor.

Doriana's absence of a canonical fate means something entirely other, to me; it means it's open season on him.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-11-30 04:11pm
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It came up in that thread in PSW, so I wanted your take on it in this 'verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-03 02:38pm
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Heh, seems to me they have a lot of digging to do, just in the Empire it self.
Not to forget all the other groups and supposedly dead people.



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-04 09:24pm
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I just read Hull 721 part 1, what ship was being referenced for the Ultor battlecruisers?



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-09 11:56pm
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Breaking suspension of disbelief here slightly, but I thought it wasn't common knowledge that Centerpoint had the ability to nova stars at this point in time. The Saccorian crisis isn't due to hit for at least another 15 years. Unless Pel Aldren is privy to the research that's ongoing on the station, and/or merely good at putting researcher conjecture together (massive tractor-repulsor array equals gravity manipulation par excellance, plus galactic range...)



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-10 12:37am
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More to the point, if that WAS widely- (or even narrowly)-known, the Empire would not be allowing Corellia to continue to exist as a quasi-independent state with its own navy. There'd either be about a thousand star destroyers camping out on Centerpoint, or there'd be an active Mexican Standoff with Centerpoint aimed straight at Coruscant and the whole system ringed in Imperial fleet assets glaring at it.



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-10 02:17am
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Come on, guys.

Call it a throwaway line and let's call it a day, OK?

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-10 06:38am
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In 1 ABY, the librarian at Theed library on Naboo asked a spacer a number of questions and Centerpoint Station was the subject of one of them.

Who´s to say that Black Prince wasn´t the origin of this spacer?
Sometimes, certain quistions tend to make your mind wonder about certain things. :wink:

Though I bet he was more thinking about it being the Corellian system, like what would the odds be that it could do such a thing? :angelic:
Remember, not much is know about it and thus it could be capable of it.
Yet I´m willing to bet that there is currently a Imperial Reseach team trying to figure out what it does.

Edit:
Say Remnant, did Black Prince ever visit Raxus Prime?
It´s prime salvage. :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-10 09:31pm
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Knowing Black Prince's ECM guys, they probably hacked every secure system in system when they arrived. Who knows what info they have.



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-11 01:43pm
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Right, I have more in manuscript but I rushed this bit out just to answer some of the questions.


Hull 721 arc 2 ch 23


The response was predictable and almost universal. Rafaella looked as if she was about to experiment with forcebolts upon him, actually said 'The centre of the galaxy- our anchor, the past, the future! The people, the museums, the history, the people.'

Mirannon looked genuinely interested, and started doing eleven dimensional calculus in his head- just for a first approximation, there was far too much of it to think the problem all the way through; first cut, though, 'Physically- yes, technologically maybe, operationally- hells no.'

Rythanor went pale and shouted something about 'Absolutely not,' the two fighter pilots were on their feet, Aron who had grown up on Coruscant objecting- 'You can't-', Franjia shouting 'You bloodthirsty lunatic-'

Brenn yelled something about cutting the heart out of the galaxy, almost everyone was screaming at the gunner in some way or other- except the skipper who appeared to be seriously considering it, and that was the most terrifying reaction of the lot.


'Why,' Lennart asked Aldrem after the first wash of shouting was over, 'do you think that might be a good idea?'

Crap oh crap, Aldrem thought, if I don't talk fast here we might end up actually trying it. He can't be serious. I wasn't. 'Um...to be honest I don't, really. There's something like half a percent of the entire population of the galaxy there, never mind all else?

I'm a marksman, not...but I'd never be able to live it down if somebody else got to the extreme option before me.' he said, and most of the group relaxed- until the captain said

'How high do we reckon the price of change is going to be, anyway?' Lennart waved at the holodisplay. 'There is no legitimate line of succession- the rebel argument is that there is no legitimate government- only the traditions of the dark side.

The price of the total breakdown of galactic order is, I reckon, likely higher than that of the unfettered reign of tyranny; but both of them promise to be high enough that a mere half a percentage point casualties looks like getting off damn' lightly.


Not that that would actually be an end of it, of course. Brings us back to question one- what is there that we can reasonably hope to do, at a credible chance of success- and cost. Gethrim, I hope you're about to tell me that isn't actually a feasible idea?'

'I think you probably got it from me in the first place.' Mirannon told Aldrem. 'I mentioned it in secondary orders, and I think I was so focused on the refit that I accidentally mentioned why. Were you ever exposed,' he asked Lennart, 'to DTM2- 394, the academy course on early alternatives to hyperdrive?'

'It's officially an engineering course, but one that doesn't actually involve much calculating or thinking, so it was a popular choice to pick up a relatively easy credit with- and that's about all I know.' Lennart said.

'On the other hand if you're talking about hyperspace cannons, that's a matter of Corellian history and national pride, so yes. You think there's a connection?'


'I think it's probable that the hyperspace cannon were reverse engineered from the technology of Centrepoint Station.' Mirannon pointed out. 'There's a lot of detail I could go into, but some of it has circuit diagrams, and a lot about centrepoint has been, allowed to be forgotten is the best explanation.

Somebody put two and two together a few thousand years ago, I think, and after they had recovered from their heart attack decided to hush things up in a long, slow, quiet suppression- worked so well in the end that it takes a leap of imagination to realise there actually is something to hide.

It can't be an absolute certainty, without a month and an inspection team, and a year to analyse and draft, but I think it's at least a pod- racing certainty; the principles and the technology are too alike.

If one of the small base stations that went by the name of hyperspace cannon can fire the complexity and mass- energy of a decent sized freighter through the tachyonic state, it's very easily credible something that size, first generation or not, could lob a simple electrogravitic soliton powerful enough to be a starbreaker.'


'See where wanting to consider all the possibilities gets you?' Lennart said to Aleph-3, deliberately looking for something to say that wasn't ridiculously grim.

'If it wasn't for the human- lifeform- cost...it was told to all of us in the education I did recieve, as a kind of resident dark secret, that the administrative machinery of the Republic was the most perfect machine for making variety irrelevant, divergent viewpoints inconsequential and change impossible that had ever been devised.

Only playing the system was possible, and and as long as Coruscant was the centre of the web and the maw of the galaxy, as long as all jumps led there, nothing ever could or would really change.

Of course it turned out that they were only limitedly right- as long as you were talking about people who wanted to play by the rules, who were willing to deal with and within the system. The power to co-opt was awesome, but not unlimited.

Yes, I would choose to throw a lot of the rules away- but not all of them. I want there to be no unthinkable options; but burning half a quadrillion people would be an epic waste of life, and it would make us the greatest criminals and most hated names in all galactic history. If this really is the lesser evil, we are truly screwed.'


'More than that, it wouldn't actually work.' Brenn pronounced looking up from a datapad. 'There have only been two battles of Coruscant, and a thousand skirmishes, because it really is that heavily shielded. Only sabotage, treason or measureless stupidity- and Coruscant-S is actually below the mass limit.

You'd still get a good kaboom out of it, but at orbit, energy over area- the planetary shields could actually take it, they've got enough heat soak to ride out even a top- class megaflare.

The shields of the civilian freighters the planet needs to keep eating, drinking, breathing and not drowning in it's own sewage couldn't, though- there would still be mass death, but it would be a logistic collapse, slow enough for lots of people with access to navy shielding to get out. Everyone on the list, for a start.'


'Grotesque, messy and ineffectual- your plans are usually better than that.' Lennart told Aldrem. He thought immediately of moving the planet into the star, looked at Brenn, guessed he had thought of it too and decided against saying so.

Aldrem nearly objected that his plans were what was usually grotesque and messy, but decided not to, started to say "It's not a very good nova that you can hold hostage with bowel movements" but changed his mind, settled on 'All right, bad plan, let it drop.'

'Gethrim, you might want to think about Red Team alerts to the Corellian Navy and Imperial Sector Group Corellia, if you can think of a way of alerting them to the danger without also alerting them to the possibilities.' Lennart told his chief engineer.

'Although,' to everybody, 'that still leaves us on square one. Ideas?'



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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-11 03:15pm
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Well, were this a novel, I'd recommend dropping all reference to Centerpoint- but the story being what it is, for who it's for, I think that wraps it up well enough. It's a perfectly typical one-liner coming from Aldrem, the response explains why the option is, in practice, not feasible, and at least makes a gesture in the direction of explaining why the galaxy at large doesn't think it can be done, which explains why the Empire hasn't confiscated Centerpoint.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull 721, plot arc the second PostPosted: 2011-12-11 03:29pm
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Simon_Jester wrote:
Well, were this a novel, I'd recommend dropping all reference to Centerpoint- but the story being what it is, for who it's for, I think that wraps it up well enough. It's a perfectly typical one-liner coming from Aldrem, the response explains why the option is, in practice, not feasible, and at least makes a gesture in the direction of explaining why the galaxy at large doesn't think it can be done, which explains why the Empire hasn't confiscated Centerpoint.

Well, it seems quite tipical, atleast for this crew.
Looks to me that Gethrim failed considering the Galaxy Gun, looks like a adaption of the Hyperspace Cannon it´s basic working.



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