The Open Door (megacrossover)

[Enigma]

Actually, the arrogance is an interesting point in that I am trying to break the mainline Chaos of that habit. The problem I suppose is that their leadership is really good at salvaging situations, leading to a perception on the ground of invulnerability, which can then percolate back up, at which point you get the problem of people believing their own hype.

Hmmm... I'm going to have to ruminate on this. The next chapter will show some of Ashley's perspective.

If you do Bolo again, do it in italics and let it learn from its encounter with the Eva.

[Jim Starluck]

Oh, one other idea...

When they wind up going back to the Trekverse... the Borg got quite the lesson when facing the Stiletto, and were placing an incredibly high priority on assimilating it. Perhaps after the fight they continued adapting. Not necessarily their ships; as that would require much, much more advanced tech. But maybe tactics, especially when it comes to boarding...

The Borg adapt to meet what challenges them. The Stiletto was the greatest challenge they had faced in awhile, if not the greatest. If she hadn't put up as much of a fight they wouldn't have put nearly as great a priority on assimilating her or adapting to her tactics & technology.

It's like all those germs these days that are becoming resistant to progressively more powerful drugs...

[FLCNPNCH]

I'm just gonna brainstorm things that could plausibly defeat newChaos.

Introducing Laharl or Zetta would definitely give an oppourtinity for newChaos to be curbstomped. One's an insanely powerful Overlord with a short temper and the ability to vapourize entire planets on a whim and the other is the single most powerful being in the multiverse. Genesic GaoGaiGar would work too (Blow up a universe FTW!). Any of these three could realistically beat down a small army of EVAs on their own. Or maybe Etna could stumble upon newChaos in her quest to become an Overlord?

I know I may seem like a ranting Disgaea/GaoGaiGar fanboy...but...I just can't think of anything else that could actually FACE newChaos on even terms like they can. I mean, Nanoha's pretty high-powered, and look what happened there! Furthermore Disgaea and GaoGaiGar both possess interdimensional travel (GaoGaiGar because they might have been ejected into another universe following the collapse of the Trinary System...if they survived, that is, and could plausibly tear holes through time and space through COURAGE!), and could thus pursue newChaos if they try to flee.

Other things that could potentially curbstomp newChaos include Gurren Lagann (Not included above due to newChaos intentially avoiding them), Marvel/DCU, really, really epic munchkin DnD PCs (The kind that have reached the end of the Sorting Algoritm of Evil), DBZ, and I'm sure there are others.

Ultimate curbstomp would have to be if newChaos encountered Kirby and let him eat an EVA. Or one of the gods. You do not fuck with Kirby.

Things that could give newChaos a good fight...hmm...

Super Robot Wars OG...maybe. After all, the main characters have been stated to possess incredibly powerful weapons that dwarf those of an intergalactic empire (the Inspectors), so...yeah. Add in Sanger and Ratsel/Elzam and...yeah. Perhaps Dark Brain appears and tries to subjugate newChaos? Or whatever.

Or maybe have Lars land in One Piece (Straw Hat Pirates would hand Lars's ass to him, as would the Navy) or the Nasuverse (Especially if the World sees him as a threat and starts throwing Counter Guardians at him. Alternatively, Gunnhild could fall victim to the Nanaya gland and thus make enemies of Arcueid, Ciel and Akiha). That'll take him down a few pegs. Once again, Disgaea is a good option. Possibly Guilty Gear? (Full power Sol, Slayer)

...Damnit, anything else I can think of has either been already included (Or planned out *coughdoctorwhocough*) in the actual thing, or are simply too weak to do anything. Damnit, newChaos IS overpowered.

...

...Is it just me or do all the high-power universes seem to come from Japan?

But yeah. It's about time something really powerful shows up and shows newChaos what it really means to throw down, old school...What about an alternate version of newChaos? Like that Slaneeshinji one Tzeench mentioned at the end of Thousand Shinji? And really, newChaos can't be the only interdimensional empire with access to psychic powers. There's bound to be at least something, and maybe they don't like what newChaos is doing? I dunno. Giving them a taste of their own medicine would be kinda neat.

Have them screw up somehow, or incurr the wrath of something far, far greater then they are. It's a big multiverse. There's bound to be things that scare the CRAP out of newChaos. Universe-devouring cosmic horrors, insanely powerful heroes who fight off said cosmic horrors, true gods (Not like Tzinchi or the FR gods, the actual things), nameless THINGS that lurk just outside of creation, Kirby, Chuck Norris, the PC forces of any Super Robot Wars game and so on and so forth. And since newChaos has begun to make itself known to these godlike entities, maybe they'll make themselves known.

The thing is, newChaos are young. Very, very young and, on the whole, very weak, for an interdimensional force. Their greatest weakness is their sheer arrogance. The peoples of newChaos probably believe themselves invincible. They need to see how wrong they are. If newChaos came into conflict with something on an equal or greater standing as them then they would definitely not come out intact. And as mentioned above, they can't be the first group to do what they're doing. Lars mentioned being warned about insanely powerful forces that could brush him aside like a fly. Where are they?

Currently newChaos are just bullies. They push around weaker forces with impunity. That's starting to get old, fast. Have someone push back. Have them fear for their lives.

It's time to introduce a primary antagonist. Or something along those lines.

*Stares at post*

Long post is loooong...

[D1398342003]

I would argue that newChaos's greatest strength is their arrogance. Their casual demeanor to nearly everything makes others scared. It's like having 599 Supermans running/flying around Metropolis, and one regular guy with a Superman costume. If the one guy acts scared everyone sees through the disguise. If he acts arrogant and chooses his words and props correctly no one will mess with him.

Another thing is that newChaos wouldn't survive a real curbstomp. They've been shown to have 2 planets and a very small navy. (that I recall) If they lose their StargateVerse planet, no big deal: it's mostly empty. If they lose thier other planet, it's game over. Losing the navy would be bad, as they lose all of their experienced crews, and it would set their plans back significantly.

So, yes newChaos is incredibly arrogant. If they weren't they would get nowhere.



Maybe Academia Nut could add a character who usually sees the negative in a given situation as one of Rong-Arya's new bridge crewmen.

[FLCNPNCH]

True. Their arrogance is their strength, making them seem bigger than they really are to those who encounter them. But they also tend to see themselves as invincible, especially the field crews, since nothing they've encountered has actually given them any challenge whatsoever. So it is both a strength and a weakness. The crew of the Stiletto should be shown to have become a touch too arrogant, since while they are chaos-warped they are still human. They need to encounter something that fights back, and wins.

Hell, the curbstomp doesn't even have to be a real curbstomp. Just having an unstoppable something show up on newChaos Earth, go RAWR and blow shit up for a few chapters while everyone panics until they finally manage to shunt it off somewhere would be sufficient. And kinda cool. Whee, Godzilla.

TZINCHI: *Stares in horror as several buildings explode* Nothing works. Whatever I scheme, whatever possibilities I forsee, NOTHING WORKS! *Cut to Kirby emerging from the flames, wearing a Unit 01 hat* IT'S JUST A BLOODY PINK PUFFBALL THE SIZE OF A BASKETBALL! HOW? *Kirby shrugs off bolter fire then vapourizes several legions of Marines with eye lasers* HOW??? *Kirby suplexes Scipio* WHY WON'T IT DIIIIIE? *Kirby throws away EVA power and eats another EVA, regaining its 01 hat*

Or something like that.

Really, I just want to se newChaos LOSE for once. Or at least face some sort of effective resistance that manages to hand their asses to them. They've gotten to this point without breaking a sweat. Let's see them sweat.

But Lars is just asking for an asskicking. Since he's supposed to be the universes buttmonkey, and considering that things have been going very very well for him recently...

Something is going to go horribly, horribly wrong.

[EternitynChaos]

You mean like, oh I don't know, him getting shredded by divine arrows?

or, maybe half the universe he's in arriving on his door step ready to kick his ass and destroy all he has worked to build?

oh oh, maybe him watching his wife aka the woman he loves more then life itself walk into a hole in existence and possible be lost to him forever...

wait...

oh thats right, thats all happened already, silly me

Sorry, but I don't see how Lars hasn't been the multiversal spittoon recently, the only then that hasn't happened his him or someone he loves dying before his eyes recently, and I don't know about anyone else, but thats up there with rapeing the dog as it where.

all in all, I think things have been doing fine, and if your that afraid himself dosn't have something up his sleeve to re-teach NewChaos some humility then, well, stop reading.

[Aranfan]

Speaking of things that could omgwtfpwn NewChaos, anyone from the Xeeleeverse Qax level tech or above could do so without trying.

Why not have them run into the Combine, so long as the Combine doesn't find out where NewChaos is from they can give "our heroes" a fight that will bring tension back to the story.

[Setesh]

Hell, the curbstomp doesn't even have to be a real curbstomp. Just having an unstoppable something show up on newChaos Earth, go RAWR and blow shit up for a few chapters while everyone panics until they finally manage to shunt it off somewhere would be sufficient. And kinda cool. Whee, Godzilla.

That would be bizarre to watch, depending on which era Gojira is used.

But Lars is just asking for an asskicking. Since he's supposed to be the universes buttmonkey, and considering that things have been going very very well for him recently...

Something is going to go horribly, horribly wrong.

His wife just jumped into the far realm without him, he now has to go face down cthulhulian horrors that make gods tremble to retrieve her. And at the moment he's being forced to babysit petulant deities instead of doing so. I don't think 'very well' is how its going right now.

[Jaeger]

Hell, the curbstomp doesn't even have to be a real curbstomp. Just having an unstoppable something show up on newChaos Earth, go RAWR and blow shit up for a few chapters while everyone panics until they finally manage to shunt it off somewhere would be sufficient. And kinda cool. Whee, Godzilla.

That would be bizarre to watch, depending on which era Gojira is used.

What about those giant bugs from "Starship Troopers"?

All hive insects instinctively follow a queen, so if neoChaos turned a queen bug into a daemonhost, they'd gain control of a new species with unquestioning loyalty to their monarch. The colony venerates the queen, the queen is a daemonhost who worships the new Chaos gods, thus the entire hive incorporates a new religion into their group mentality.

The more species that worship the Chaos gods, the greater variety of souls the gods can consume and absorb into their collective essence, allowing them to grow and adapt in new ways.

Plus, imagine using the souls of giant insects to create a new kind of daemon to compliment their human-derived brethren.

[Deadpan29]

I think Jaeger missed the point of this line of conversation.

For other curbstomp or at lest setback contenders:

---Dark Schneider.
---The Tenchi Muyo goddesses.
---Gold saints from Saint Seya (going off of descriptions by others, I don't know much about them myself).
---The manga versions of the Sailor Senshi supposedly turn out to be great-old-one level entities in more attractive and humanly comprehensible packages.
---As noted, Daniel Jackson could be dangerous in the right circumstances. So could Kyon.

PS: The earlier Kirby omake really appeals to me.

[White Haven]

Y'know, with time to ruminate on events, I think I know what you're building up to with the Bolo...

[LadyTevar]

Ok, WhiteHaven, spill it. What's your idea

[White Haven]

Spoiler

Mk XXXIII neural fusion with a 40k psyker or, if it ALL hits the fan, Tzintchi. 'Team Scipio' with precog would be a scary, scary thing.

[MichaelAwesome]

Spoiler

Mk XXXIII neural fusion with a 40k psyker or, if it ALL hits the fan, Tzintchi. 'Team Scipio' with precog would be a scary, scary thing.

The problem with using semi-sentient computer algorithms is that, eventually, a fully sentient one will emerge that isn't bound by its original parent programming. It might evolve a mind of its own and decide to take over.

[WillowBee]

Low-level daemon are often bound within machinery, such a gun turrets or Lars' communication module. What is their relationship to the computer systems they're hardwired into? Are the daemon semi-autonomous? Or can they only act when given commands by the crew or master operating system? If the operating system has its own AI, how do the daemon affect it?

Example: "Facing a Bolo is bad enough, but facing a Bolo capable of feeling bloodlust is reeaallly bad luck."

**

[Firethorn]

The problem with using semi-sentient computer algorithms is that, eventually, a fully sentient one will emerge that isn't bound by its original parent programming. It might evolve a mind of its own and decide to take over.

There's nothing 'semi-sentient' about a MkXXXIII's computer. The XX's were the first mass production models to be sentient, some of the earlier models did a very good impression.

By the time you get to the 33, they're not only sentient, they're arguably smarter than humans. Even humans at that time had access to extensive neural upgrades/synthesizing with computers for extra capability.

[Setesh]

For other curbstomp or at lest setback contenders:

---Dark Schneider.

No, just no. D. Schneider is up there with Kain and Raziel(Legacy of Kain) and Alucard(Hellsing) as guys not to introduce to NewChaos as they'd end up on the payroll. They practically meet the requirements of being greater demons of chaos as is.

Though it would be funny for them to get D. Schneider on board and slingshot his butt out to help Lars, DS in Forgotten Realms would be hilarious.

Eliminster:Control yourself sorcerer!!

D.S.:Fuck off beard boy! (goes back to licking Amlaruil Moonflower)

[Valorie]

Low-level daemon are often bound within machinery, such a gun turrets or Lars' communication module. What is their relationship to the computer systems they're hardwired into? Are the daemon semi-autonomous? Or can they only act when given commands by the crew or master operating system? If the operating system has its own AI, how do the daemon affect it?

I think daemon bound within machines are like subroutines acting on behalf of their operators, although they possess a self-awareness not dependant on hardware or software. However, I could be wrong.

P.S. What are Psyker "dustmen" called?

The battle against the Borg showed that neoChaos doesn't need direct physical contact to achieve a mind-machine interface, so rather than risking a fragile human to pilot a Eva or Bolo in a particularly dangerous mission, it might be possible for someone who is completely transformed into sand to be sealed inside a special psycho-conductive urn/vessel/teakettle and manually installed to operate the vehicle. Look at Sandman from "Spider-Man3" or Xellos from "Slayers": no internal organs or biological physiology mean you can take a shit-kicking that'd kill most people. No need to eat, drink, or breath.

[FLCNPNCH]

You mean like, oh I don't know, him getting shredded by divine arrows?

or, maybe half the universe he's in arriving on his door step ready to kick his ass and destroy all he has worked to build?

oh oh, maybe him watching his wife aka the woman he loves more then life itself walk into a hole in existence and possible be lost to him forever...

wait...

oh thats right, thats all happened already, silly me

Well, the fact that his wife is now a FR goddess and probably quite capable of taking care of herself, as well as the fact that he recovered from all that crap in relatively short order by blowing shit up, kinda softens the impact a little.

It's not so much an asskicking as it is a minor setback.

Furthermore he came out of all that in a better situation than when he went in.

When I talk about asskicking, I mean something like what happened when Lars was in OMG. He ended up completely screwed over there. Things haven't been nearly as bad in FR. Sure he's in a frustrating position (as Setesh has pointed out) but it could be worse. Much much worse.

And I'm not complaining or anything - this is by far one of my favourite stories. Acadamia Nut is a genius right up there with bpen and whoever writes Kharn. It's just that...well...TOD could be so much better with minimal effort! A simple loss for mainstream newChaos would shatter their invincible image and make them easier to connect with (Or at least like. Not that they aren't likable already)! And that newChaos have started down the dreaded path of the Mary Sue, and are currently, at the LEAST, Boring Invincible Heroes...

And D.Shneider being on the payroll of newChaos is not a bad thing. It is an awesome thing. Perhaps newChaos should begin a large-scale interdimensional recruiting drive?

P.S MichaelAwesome, Bolos are not Skynet. They're at least sentient enough to make their own decisions, and the vast majority (I assume, it may be 100%) have decided that they like humanity. So Scipio suddenly deciding to take over is not an issue.

EDIT: Just thought of an awesome idea. The reason newChaos is invincible is not because they're awesome or anything but because they're cheating and using reality-savestates. Or something.

[barricade]

Well we would be best to remember that Lars & Gunnhild got to meet their Father-in-Law/Grandfather, respectfully, immediately following the battle. So the edge of losing Skuld is not going to be quite a bad as it could have been. Especially as now Odin/Almighty has a good idea what's happened, and where she's gone from there. And very likely he immediately sent out Valkyries instead of holding them back like he did with Ao. Which, as it stands, means Asmodeus likely has a very large favor possibly coming to him from Odin/Almighty himself. And he's got a much bigger toybox to rummage through and give out gifts then Ao ever did. That, and Odin getting to be a doting grandfather as well. Which then leads rather abruptly into just why a large number from the Faerun pantheon ended up sitting down at the treaty table. Its one thing to have mortals with the powers of a god coming up against gods. Its an entirely different matter when a bunch of gods that can't stand each other run headlong into a bunch of warrior goddesses (the 'true' Valkyries, of which Lind/Rind is a member) that are all likely even more powerful then the Faerun Overgod.

Ao was just a paper-pusher remember. He's likely a class II at most, or possibly a very weak, comparatively, class I. And then suddenly a bunch of Valkyries pop in, all 'Special Limited Duty, Class I' ranked.

-=-

Now as for our friend the Bolo. While I feel somewhat cheated in that the Bolo lost in what was all but an outright Bolostomp of NewChaos by a last second 'haxx' upset, I think it had to be done. Also TK + Precog would have made it likely impossible for even the Bolo to keep up. Scipio knew the response times for the EVA from observing it as the battle went on, only for the pilot to suddenly use her TK to very rapidly, even for a Bolo, move into position and take a shot. Even if it had been precog by itself, the EVA likely would have lost. It was the combination of the two that made it a win for the EVA as it could have moved in ways that were simply too unpredictable for the Bolo to compensate for. Now if the battle had lasted long enough, or been hard enough for Scipio to see the limits the Pilot (augmented by the S2/S3 organ & At-Field) was able to use her TK then it very likely would have resulted in a win for the Bolo. Or to be a little more blunt, the Bolo acted too quickly and believed too much of the rather sketchy intel given to it. Had it waited and tested the defenses more, it's likely it would have spotted that it was in trouble the moment it got into firing range. I'd have given the win to the Bolo, only if after a very grueling battle in which both Bolo & EVA were literally on their last legs and practically falling apart before the final hit landed.

-=-

As for things that could, currently, curbstomp NewChaos, you might want to add in anything from the Rhodanverse. That and possibly the Foundation. If only because of the Mule.

[Singular Quartet]

As for things that could, currently, curbstomp NewChaos, you might want to add in anything from the Rhodanverse. That and possibly the Foundation. If only because of the Mule.

Not if NewChaos reaches the mule first.

Personally, I'd like to see NewChaos' take on Silent Hill...

[MichaelAwesome]

Even if the Bolo doesn't pull a Skynet, neoChaos should prepare for the contingency that it might be "too honorable" to follow orders given by them. Canon!Bolo had failsafes that prevent this, but when dealing with Chaos, anything is possible.

On the other hand, as its adaptability and free-will grows, instead of becoming rebellious or belligerant, it'd be funny if the Bolo decided to pursue a different career path or became a pacifist tree-hunger. The Bolo stated that all it knows is warfare, so if someone TiVos "pro-wrestling" or "home&garden" using its mainframe, the super-tank might be inspired to apply itself in a non-combat role.

Scipio: "Snap into a Slim Jim! Oh yeah!"
Scientist: "Dammit, who allowed Scipio to watch WWF Raw!?!"
Intern: "It was either that or reruns of Sesame Street. Don't worry, it can't get any worse."
Scipio: "Scipio Prime, transform and roll out!"
Intern: "Oops. Nevermind. It just got worse."

[EarthScorpion]

Personally, I'd like to see NewChaos' take on Silent Hill...

That has the potential to go very, very wrong, actually. It entirely depends on how nasty the thing that empowers the town is, but a lot of people in NewChaos, from the people like Lars and Rong-Arya who lost so many people in the Second and Third Impacts, to even the Gods themselves, have psychological problems and have experienced things that the town could really, really work on. Forcing the Arya part of the personality to relive the aftermath of Third Impact over and over again, walking through LCL flooded streets of the town, with part liquid fiends that victimise her, play on fears of being weak, and watching what happened to that friend over and over again would be pretty horrific.

[Jaeger]

That has the potential to go very, very wrong, actually. It entirely depends on how nasty the thing that empowers the town is, but a lot of people in NewChaos, from the people like Lars and Rong-Arya who lost so many people in the Second and Third Impacts, to even the Gods themselves, have psychological problems and have experienced things that the town could really, really work on.

Resident Evil would have far more potential than Silent Hill. An undead-infested survival horror would be a great training exercise, and if the Bearer of Reigle got infected with the T-Virus, they’d be able to absorb the ability to reanimate necrotized tissue and possibly gain psychic control over all the zombies and Tyrants. Zombies and Tyrants aren’t up to par with grunt soldiers of neoChaos, but they’d make cheap cannon folder or convenient guinea pigs for experimentation. Other variants of the T-Virus included T-Veronica, NE-T, T-Cameron, and the G-Virus. Some were intended as vehicles of transhumanist modification instead of bio-warfare.

[EarthScorpion]

Resident Evil would have far more potential than Silent Hill. An undead-infested survival horror would be a great training exercise, and if the Bearer of Reigle got infected with the T-Virus, they’d be able to absorb the ability to reanimate necrotized tissue and possibly gain psychic control over all the zombies and Tyrants. Zombies and Tyrants aren’t up to par with grunt soldiers of neoChaos, but they’d make cheap cannon folder or convenient guinea pigs for experimentation. Other variants of the T-Virus included T-Veronica, NE-T, T-Cameron, and the G-Virus. Some were intended as vehicles of transhumanist modification instead of bio-warfare.

No, you misunderstand.

Silent Hill has the possibility of going very wrong for neoChaos. Resident Evil would be a cakewalk for them; the zombies are stupid, and even the monsters are just fleshy. The T-virus isn't going to do anything negative to Bearers of Reigle. Silent Hill, though, with the traumas in the backstories of so many characters, will have plenty of material to work on them with. Remember the 15th Angel? The town is a lot like that, but possibly even worse for its subtlety.

And, incidentally, I don't think that neo-Chaos is God-Moding or anything. It's perfectly plausible if you accept the initial conditions, that they're attacking/ screwing with unaware, unprepared, and weaker anyway civilisations, when they're bored because of the logistics of building up Earth to prepare for the C'tan take time.