Armageddon???? - Part Eighty One Up

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EdBecerra
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Post by EdBecerra » 2008-08-31 05:40am

Guardsman Bass wrote:What would fascinate me the most would be how thick and amazing the world history of the past 1000 years would be, with virtually all the first person accounts from every level of class, race, and so forth down there (those that haven't turned into insane wrecks, at least). Someone could write a history of the American Civil War from virtually every possible viewpoint from Abraham Lincoln to various confederate housewives just off the first-person accounts alone combined with good archaeological and existing histories, assuming they could be located in Hell. It would be incredibly exciting, at least for me.
I have to agree there. Eye witnesses to all of history, including history some people don't WANT remembered? Ugly.

The first example's right here to hand. Now that the death portal's been taken, *BANG* go most unsolved murders. You just wait for the victim to come flying through the portal and wake up in the hospital at Hellcamp Alpha, then start questioning them.

Unless you've got Lon Chaney's gift for makeup and disguise, it's going to be a stone-cold bitch to commit any sort of arms-reach murder. I predict a sudden upsurge in murders committed by long-range sniping, poison, and pre-arranged "accidents" (ie, cutting the brake lines on someone's car...)

There's an old story, originally published in Analog magazine decades ago, about a group of friends who assemble around a man named Mike who invents a time viewer. It's crude, awkward, and can't relay sound (at first), but it allows them to view through the whole of history. And they're shocked at all the lies.

They decide to do something about it, publish the truth... but how? They don't have the power or money to survive the storm of hatred and retribution their initial revelations would create. Then they have an idea. They'll make movies!

They shoot REAL historical footage, inter-spliced with low-budget actors for the closeups, and voice actors to replace the sound. They do Alexander the Great first, then Rome, and a few others. But when they get to recent history, things get tense, and it's when they do the combined movie about WW1 and WW2 that things explode. Because they start naming names and telling truths. And when sued for libel, they tell the truth of where their film came from.

The world goes INSANE.

"E For Effort", by T. S. Sherred... scary story. And I suspect that, for at least a while, the same thing might happen.

Ed.
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Post by Bayonet » 2008-08-31 11:35am

One thing's for sure. The profession of historiography will undergo a sea change. A whole different skill set will be required.
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Post by Peptuck » 2008-08-31 02:00pm

ray245 wrote:
But do people have such a good memory?
The Spartan they pulled from the lava pit was able to remember very specific things about his past, and he'd been down there for millennia.
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Post by Ender » 2008-08-31 02:22pm

EdBecerra wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:What would fascinate me the most would be how thick and amazing the world history of the past 1000 years would be, with virtually all the first person accounts from every level of class, race, and so forth down there (those that haven't turned into insane wrecks, at least). Someone could write a history of the American Civil War from virtually every possible viewpoint from Abraham Lincoln to various confederate housewives just off the first-person accounts alone combined with good archaeological and existing histories, assuming they could be located in Hell. It would be incredibly exciting, at least for me.
I have to agree there. Eye witnesses to all of history, including history some people don't WANT remembered? Ugly.

The first example's right here to hand. Now that the death portal's been taken, *BANG* go most unsolved murders. You just wait for the victim to come flying through the portal and wake up in the hospital at Hellcamp Alpha, then start questioning them.

Unless you've got Lon Chaney's gift for makeup and disguise, it's going to be a stone-cold bitch to commit any sort of arms-reach murder. I predict a sudden upsurge in murders committed by long-range sniping, poison, and pre-arranged "accidents" (ie, cutting the brake lines on someone's car...)
That would bring about a really interesting dynamic here on earth - since all the dirty secrets can come out and you can't just kill someone directly, I expect a return of old style courtly intrigue. As political as people talk about organizations being today they pale to how things could go in the days of kings and queens.
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Post by Andras » 2008-08-31 05:39pm

Guess we can find out what happened to Amelia Earhert now.

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Post by Singular Quartet » 2008-08-31 06:28pm

Andras wrote:Guess we can find out what happened to Amelia Earhert now.
Assuming she wasn't abducted by aliens[/conspiracy]

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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-02 09:08pm

If a Naga's electric charge can be stored in a capacitor and fired as a weapon, then we can't use the "it's unexplained magic" line to explain the fact that it doesn't just arc to ground, because now we're talking about a (primitive) technological apparatus. Would this technological enhancement to the Naga work on Earth, or does it only work in Hell?
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Post by EdBecerra » 2008-09-03 01:04am

Darth Wong wrote:If a Naga's electric charge can be stored in a capacitor and fired as a weapon, then we can't use the "it's unexplained magic" line to explain the fact that it doesn't just arc to ground, because now we're talking about a (primitive) technological apparatus. Would this technological enhancement to the Naga work on Earth, or does it only work in Hell?
Ouch... now I'm looking for a fanfic I can barely remember, one where the plot point was a magical capacitor made of those little round glass things with the spiral inclusion you see at the bottom of fish tanks, and in the pockets of folks with collectible card games... :?

I wonder, will the demons have one last hurrah in them, or are they going to inflict just a few - but emotionally significant - casualties, then get the living snot kicked out of them?

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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-03 01:18am

EdBecerra wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If a Naga's electric charge can be stored in a capacitor and fired as a weapon, then we can't use the "it's unexplained magic" line to explain the fact that it doesn't just arc to ground, because now we're talking about a (primitive) technological apparatus. Would this technological enhancement to the Naga work on Earth, or does it only work in Hell?
Ouch... now I'm looking for a fanfic I can barely remember, one where the plot point was a magical capacitor made of those little round glass things with the spiral inclusion you see at the bottom of fish tanks, and in the pockets of folks with collectible card games... :?

I wonder, will the demons have one last hurrah in them, or are they going to inflict just a few - but emotionally significant - casualties, then get the living snot kicked out of them?

Ed.
It shows how Belial is the smartest asshole in Hell, but it won't make any real difference. The new weapon is no more dangerous than an RPG, and a few RPGs would not turn the tide of this war.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

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Post by EdBecerra » 2008-09-03 03:17am

Darth Wong wrote:
EdBecerra wrote:I wonder, will the demons have one last hurrah in them, or are they going to inflict just a few - but emotionally significant - casualties, then get the living snot kicked out of them?

Ed.
It shows how Belial is the smartest asshole in Hell, but it won't make any real difference. The new weapon is no more dangerous than an RPG, and a few RPGs would not turn the tide of this war.
Don't you mean second-smartest? Abigor strikes me as the most intelligent. Or maybe that's just confusing native intelligence with "I've just had a graduate course of how dangerous the $#%!!ing humans can be!" forced down his throat almost overnight.

Regarding Belial: Pity the not-so-little backstabber can't be brought over to our side - he strikes me as the untrustworthy-but-cunning sort you might want to run the dirty tricks & assassination department of an intelligence service.

Provided, of course, you have a gun to his head 24/7 to keep him from getting any ideas above his station. Or at least from trying to carry them out.

And if he gets caught, you just toss him to the wolves and disavow any knowledge of what he was up to. The most useful sort of tool - if he breaks, you dispose of him. :twisted:

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Post by Edward Yee » 2008-09-03 08:37am

Admittedly, he'd be a guy I would go to for ideas... but HELL NO I wouldn't let him near their implementation; better not to have to keep him on a leash.
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Post by Col. Crackpot » 2008-09-03 08:43am

Darth Wong wrote: It shows how Belial is the smartest asshole in Hell, but it won't make any real difference. The new weapon is no more dangerous than an RPG, and a few RPGs would not turn the tide of this war.
Tell that to Habib, your average Iraqi insurgent on the street.

Though I don't think Belial can make them in sufficient numbers to make a dent in the occupation forces.


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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-03 12:38pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that most of the damage done by insurgents to occupation forces in Iraq was by IEDs and other indirect weapons, not direct-fire weapons like RPGs and rifles. To use a direct-fire weapon like an RPG is to expose yourself to return fire, and the insurgents generally don't do that well in direct engagements.
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Post by Stuart » 2008-09-03 12:57pm

Darth Wong wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that most of the damage done by insurgents to occupation forces in Iraq was by IEDs and other indirect weapons, not direct-fire weapons like RPGs and rifles. To use a direct-fire weapon like an RPG is to expose yourself to return fire, and the insurgents generally don't do that well in direct engagements.
You're right Mike. The big killer of our people was IEDs (either roadside or vehicle-mounted) followed by snipers (mostly equipped with SVDs or Romanian FPKs) RPGs weren't a great factor. A lot of RPGs were fired but the damage they did was pretty slight. I've got the casualty breakdown somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.
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Post by Bayonet » 2008-09-03 04:28pm

Col. Crackpot wrote: Tell that to Habib, your average Iraqi insurgent on the street.
It doesn't matter if the Nagawaffen is more effective than a 120mm tank gun, it is only available in tiny numbers, and is otherwise vulnerable. It will be swiftly destroyed and swept away. If nothing else, the Baldricks haven't practiced with this thing and trained against an combined force enemy. We have.
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Post by Stuart » 2008-09-03 05:33pm

Stuart wrote:RPGs weren't a great factor. A lot of RPGs were fired but the damage they did was pretty slight. I've got the casualty breakdown somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.
OK, got the data.

Sickness/accident................................... 1.22 percent
Air crash................................................ 2.77 percent
Vehicle crash.......................................... 0.53 percent
Artillery.................................................. 5.90 percent
IED (including VBIED).............................. 63.50 percent
Gunshot................................................. 19.94 percent
RPG....................................................... 1.34 percent
Multiple.................................................. 4.80 percent

The stunning thing is how low the sickness'accident number is. It was only a few decades ago that sickness deaths in an army during a war exceeded combat deaths by 10:1
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Post by Bayonet » 2008-09-03 05:50pm

The stunning thing is how low the sickness'accident number is.
Particularly since it includes accidents, which probably exceed sickness by 3:1

Of course, soldiers don't die of dysentery by the thousands, any more.
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Post by Stuart Mackey » 2008-09-03 09:14pm

Stuart wrote:
The stunning thing is how low the sickness'accident number is. It was only a few decades ago that sickness deaths in an army during a war exceeded combat deaths by 10:1
I was reading a similar phenomenon in armies commanded by Arthur Wellesly either in India and later in Spain, something that came about by attention to sanitation, clean water, regular food supplies and prompt medical attention via mobile hospitals, all of which requiring meticulous attention to logistics. I suspect that this is a continuation of that trend.
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Post by kingdragon » 2008-09-03 09:29pm

Wong or whoever is moderating this subforum, shouldn't you lock this thread now? :?
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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-03 09:30pm

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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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