Salvation War Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

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Post by Surlethe » 2008-08-24 04:36pm

Updated through Ch. 78.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by GrayAnderson » 2009-04-12 09:50pm

Surlethe,
Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but you might want to add the following individuals:
1) Carl Levin (Senator from MI) and Sandy Levin (Representative from MI). They got a decent amount of facetime, particularly when Detroit was being destroyed.
2) David Cameron (Deputy PM in the UK).
3) You may want to add in some notes on the deceased fighting alongside the humans in Hell (notably, Caesar and Aeneas the Spartan come to mind).

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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by Surlethe » 2009-04-15 05:45pm

Since it's been bumped anyway, I'm going to ask that this not be locked, not least since the next book is going to begin soon and I would like to add a table of contents for that to the OP.

Also, this past weekend I actually managed to finish updating the chapters with links to the original story segments in the discussion threads.

GrayAnderson, if you'd like to add these people to this index of characters, go ahead. I don't have time, and you're more than free to contribute to this thread.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by Surlethe » 2009-05-28 07:30am

Updated to reflect Pantheocide. If anybody would like to contribute information, a la Starglider's first post in this thread, that would be more than welcome.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn » 2009-05-28 03:51pm

Pantheocide Cliff Notes (so far. Current as of Chapter 6):

Characters(*)
Humans (in order of appearance):
General Walter Cochrane, Whiteman AFB
Colonel Harmsworth, Whiteman AFB. Cochrane's aide.
??? Estrada, Whiteman AFB, officer on duty in AOC.
??? Boardman, Whiteman AFB, meteorologist.
John Warner, US Secretary of Defense.
Captain Olsen, Skipper of the Carnival Triumph.
Jennifer Smith, Bermuda. Government official.
??? Carsten, First Officer of the Carnival Triumph.
Ewart Brown, Prime Minister of Bermuda.
Doctor Surlethe, US National Science Advisor.
John McLanahan Sr., US civilian. Visiting undead inlaw in Hell.
Naomi McLanahan, US civilian. Wife of John, visiting her undead mother in Hell.
John McLanahan Jr., US civilian. Child of John Sr. and Naomi.
Elva Jones, undead denizen of Hell. Guide to living visitors.
Rose Matthews, recently undead denizen of Hell and citizen of New Rome. Naomi McLanahan's mother.
George W. Bush, President of the United States.
Barack H. Obama, President-elect of the United States.
David Petraeus, US General of the Armies. Commander of the Human Expeditionary Army
Captain Yahiya Saifullovich Fatkullin, Russian pilot.
Lieutenant Viktor Matveevich Rakitin, Russian pilot.
Private Martin Chestnut, US Army. Afflicted by (presumably) angelic plague.
Dr. Kuroneko, DIMO(N). Portal scientist.
General Schatten, US Army. Affiliated with DIMO(N).
James Randi, DIMO(N). Portal sensitives screener.

Demons (in order of appearance):
Corporal Dripankeothorofenex, Heavengate. Guard.

Angels (in order of appearance):
Uriel, Archangel. Guardian of the Gates of Eden, the Fire of Yahweh.
Colopatiron Lan Michael, Angel. A carrier of the First Bowl of Wrath. Killed by Russians.
Michael-Lan, Archangel. Yahweh's greatest general.
Gabriel-Lan, Archangel. Has a taste for imported whiskey.
Lailah, Angel. Works at the Montmartre Club.
Maion, minor Angel. Heroin addict.

Places
On Earth (in order of appearance:)
Whiteman AFB. US Air Force Base in Missouri. Destroyed by Act of Yahweh.
Hamilton, Bermuda. Location of Hellgate Bravo. Destroyed by Act of Yahweh.
Dover, DE. Location of Hellgate Golf. Leads to Phelan Plain in Hell.
Acara, Brazil. Destroyed by the Archangel Uriel.
White House, Washington D.C.. One of the nerve-centers of the US Government.
National Cathederal, Washington D.C.. Formerly used to venerate Yahweh. Used to deliver enormous "FUCK YOU" to Yahweh for Christmas.
Khabarovsk, Russia. Subject to Yahweh's First Bowl of Wrath.
Fort Benning. US Army Base in Georgia. Home of the Basic Infantry Training School. Site of angelic biowarfare attack.
Arlington, VA. Home of the Pentagon.

In Hell (in order of appearance:)
Heavengate. Guarded portal between Heaven and Hell. Closed from Heaven's side.
Phelan Plain. Friendly territory. Where the recently undead get oriented, and the living visit their undead relatives.

In Heaven (in order of appearance:)
The Montmartre Club, Heaven. Performance space, created and frequented by Michael-Lan.

* - Characters named, with speaking lines or point-of-view monologues. Does not include newscasters, unnamed characters, or characters which are only mentioned and have no speaking lines.

(Edit: Updated for Chapter Five.)
Last edited by GrandMasterTerwynn on 2009-06-01 02:34am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-28 06:17pm

Some naval orders of battle at the start of Pantheocide (around December of 2008) :

This post will contain the United States Navy.

United States Navy:

Primary power projection force:

Aircraft carriers:

1 x Enterprise-class CVN.
2 x Kitty Hawk-class CV (Kitty Hawk and John F. Kennedy). Note: JFK is provisional but she was only decommed 4 months before the start of Armageddon, so probable.
10 x Nimitz-class CVN (includes sub-classes).

Amphibious Assets:

LHD/LHAs:

8 x Wasp-class LHDs (Makin Island rushed to completion).
4 x Tarawa-class LHAs (Belleau Wood already expended as a target).

LPDs:

5 x San Antonio-class (Green Bay and New York rushed to completion).
11 x Austin-class (Trenton already transferred to India--counts Cleveland and Trenton subclasses).

LSDs:

8 x Whidbey Island-class
4 x Harper's Ferry-class

LST:

4 x Newport-class reactivated from inactive reserve (probable).

Surface Combatants:

4 x Ticonderoga-class twin arm cruisers (Valley Forge already disposed of).
22 x Ticonderoga-class VLS cruisers.
56 x Arleigh Burke-class destroyers (Dewey and Stockdale rushed to completion).
5 x Spruance-class destroyers (all others scrapped).
2 x Forrest Sherman-class destroyers (restored museum ships: Turner Joy and Barry).
1 x Fletcher-class destroyer (restored museum ship: USS Kidd. -- Probably recommissioned under different name since we've got a Burke with that name?).
36 x Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates (includes some restored to service).
13 x Cyclone-class patrol craft (up-armed with two mounts combining a single 35mm autocannon and single 40mm grenade launcher, usually carries 8 x .50cal additionally and six stinger missiles).
2 x Ashville-class gunboats (Chehalis and Grand Rapids, from the Naval Surface Warfare Center).
1 x Freedom-class LCS (rushed to completion).
1 x Independence-class LCS (rushed to completion).
1 x Sea Fighter-class experimental LCS (hastily armed and added to the fleet).

No other surface combatants are suitable or available for recommissioning, however, large numbers of warships (probably 20 - 30 surface combatants) from Muslim countries and possibly the Philippines and some other African states are being operated by American crews while nominally still part of the navies of the countries in question, due to the immensely high proportions of people in those countries who heeded the "message" making it impossible for those countries to continue manning the ships in question. They are not, however, formally commissioned in the USN.


Mine warfare combatants used as patrol craft:

14 x Avenger-class MCM ships.
8 x Osprey-class coastal minehunters.

Submarines:

48 x Los Angeles-class SSNs (all types).
3 x Seawolf-class SSNs.
5 x Virginia-class SSNs.
4 x Ohio-class SSGNs.
14 x Ohio-class SSBNs.

Several conventional submarines from navies of countries hit hard by the message may also be operating under American crews.

Coastguard Cutters activated into USN service:

3 x Bertholf-class large maritime security cutters ( Stratton rushed to completion).
12 x Hamilton-class large cutters.

Medium Endurance Cutters:

13 x Famous-class.
14 x Reliance-class.
Alex Haley.
Acushnet.

-- These 29 vessels are tasked with escort of Military Sealift Command Assets only. The rest of the USCG force remains in its regularly employed coastal life-saving and law enforcement roles.
Last edited by The Duchess of Zeon on 2009-05-28 07:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-28 07:15pm

Royal Navy:

Major surface assets:

3 x Invincible-class CVLs.
1 x Ocean-class LPH.

Other Amphibious Assets:

2 x Albion-class LPDs.
1 x Fearless-class LPD (Intrepid, Fearless had begun scrapping but is now retained as a parts hulk).
4 x Bay-class LSDs.
4 x Round Table-class LSLs (Sir Lancelot, in civilian cargo service, purchased and restored to RN, other three reactivated).

Surface Combatants:

1 x Type-45 Destroyer (rushed to completion and through trials).
1 x Type-82 Destroyer (reactivated from stationary training ship).
1 x Town-class cruiser (rebuilt from museum ship due to sheer desperation of RN for military hulls) -- note, still working up.
11 x Type-42 Destroyers (including some reactivated).
14 x Type-23 frigates (1 due to be sent to Chile in 2008 seized and recommissioned).
4 x Type-22 frigates.
1 x Type-12M HMS Plymouth (restored museum ship).
1 x C-class destroyer HMS Cavalier (restored museum ship).

Submarines:

4 x Vanguard-class SSBN.
1 x Astute-class SSN.
7 x Trafalgar-class SSN.
5 x Swiftsure-class SSN.


Patrol Craft

1 x Island-class patrol vessel (Former FPV Westra, later Steve Irwin, seized from Sea Sheppard and re-commissioned as HMS Guernsey).
3 x River-class patrol vessels.
2 x Castle-class patrol vessels.
1 x Cylde-class patrol vessel (improved River).
11 x Hunt-class MCM ships, used in patrol role presently due to lack of mine threat.
9 x Sandown-class Minehunters, used in patrole role presently due to lack of mine threat.
1 x Endurance-class (armed with autocannons for patrol service).
Last edited by The Duchess of Zeon on 2009-05-28 08:47pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by JN1 » 2009-05-28 08:10pm

For the RN I'd add 1x Type 45 destroyer; HMS Daring; (sea trials shortened and commissioning brought forward). You could also add the Hydrography squadron and HMS Endurance.
I wonder if some of the stored decommissioned SSNs could be reactivated, or are they too far gone?
I hate to nitpick but HMS Ocean is an LPH, not and LHA.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-28 08:46pm

JN1 wrote:For the RN I'd add 1x Type 45 destroyer; HMS Daring; (sea trials shortened and commissioning brought forward). You could also add the Hydrography squadron and HMS Endurance.
I wonder if some of the stored decommissioned SSNs could be reactivated, or are they too far gone?
I hate to nitpick but HMS Ocean is an LPH, not and LHA.
Corrections made though LPH, LHA is just a service-stylistic designation choice, really. The Hydrography squadron on the other hand is intended to have the role of supporting patrol craft when required and so they're effectively gunboat tenders, thus not included on the list like any of the UNREP ships for anyone, since that would just give me a damned headache.

Also I'd note that that already includes several mothballed submarines. Reactivating SSNs would be a difficult process, and I'm not sure worth it, and Swiftsure herself had issues with her pressure hull, thus why she's not included. Furthermore reactivating submarines in general seems problematic if they're museums or whatnot since the pressure hull is a hell of a lot more important than the hull on a ship, in the sense that it needs to be maintained much better because of the, heh, pressure it's under.

There may be the possibility of a few transfers of ships as well. For example we wouldn't want to bother to reactivate USS Salem or Little Rock, but the Peruvians are already operating a steam fired cruiser, so she might be handed over to them and they could succeed in getting her operational, but that would be more Stuart's call.

The older ships are mainly there for gunfire support--which begs the question if poor Belfast's guns are restorable, or were destroyed. If not there might be some kind of hideous replacement of the turrets with modified land-based artillery pieces. Of course they're 152mm, and I bet you the Russians just packed all the barrels from the Sverdlov-class into storage....
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-28 11:56pm

Russian Federation Navy:

Aircraft Carriers:

1 x Admiral Kuznetsov-class CV.
1 x Gorshkov-class CV (seized while completing for the Indians due to the situation).

Large Rocket Ships:

3 x Kirov-class CSGN.
4 x Slava-class CG (fourth ship completed with Ukrainian cooperation as Admiral Lobov).
2 x Kara-class CG.
1 x Kynda-class CG (Admiral Golovko).

Amphibious Forces:

1 x Mitrofan Moskalenko, LPD of Ivan Rogov-class.
14 x Type 1171 Tapir LSLs.

(LCACs, landing craft not covered as per other navies).

Lesser surface combatants:

1 x Udaloy II -type destroyer.
10 x Udaloy I -type destroyers (Udaloy, Admiral Zakharov having already been scrapped).
15 x Soveremenny -type destroyers (three restored to service).
1 x Kashin-class destroyer (modernized and was already in service).
2 x Neustrashimyy-class frigates (Yaroslav Mudryy rushed to service).
6 x Krivak I/II - type frigates.
7 x Krivak III - type frigates.
2 x Smolnyy-class training frigates used in regular service now due to the war.
2 x Tartarstan-class frigates (transferred through canals).

Patrol Craft / fast attack craft:

2 x Steregushchy -class corvettes.*
8 x Ivan Susanin -class armed icebreakers. *
7 x Grisha II-type corvettes.*
22 x Grisha III-type corvettes.*
1 x Grisha IV-type corvette.*
30 x Grisha V-type corvettes. *
2 x Bora-class guided missile hovercraft.
23 x Tarantul-class missile boats.
8 x Parchim-class corvettes.
18 x Pauk-class corvettes.
10 x Muravey-class patrol boats.
13 x Nanuchka III-class patrol boats.
1 x Nanuchka IV-class patrol boats.
8 x Matka-class missile boats.
5 x Turya-class torpedo boats.
19 x Stenka-class patrol boats.
40 x Sonya-class minesweepers -- to be used as patrol craft in hell.
2 x Gorya-class minesweepers -- same as above. *
13 x Natya-class minesweepers -- as above.

* = loaded weight in excess of 1,000 tons and therefore of some real suitability for ocean-going operations. Discounts Bora-class hovercraft because I don't want to think of what would happen to the fans of a hovercraft in the Hell-environment.

Submarines:

12 x Project 971 and variants SSN.
4 x Project 945 SSN.
4 x Project 671RTM SSN.
8 x Project 949A SSGN.
8 x Project 667BDR SSBN (several restored to service).
6 x Project 667BDRM SSBN (some restored to service).
1 x Project 667BDRM modified to special forces boat.
4 x Project 941 (one restored to service) SSBN.
4 x Project 641B Som SSK.
24 x Project 877/636/950 ("Kilo" -- 950 numbers uncertain) SSK.

Note that SSBNs reactivated for the war--"restored to service"--are NOT carrying SLBMs and are instead being used as patrol/attack submarines. Construction of new submarines has been accelerated but none are commissioned and in service as-of December of 2008.

Note that operational readiness for the Russian Navy is still rather poor, especially with many of the older ships that are restored to service having been in very bad condition, and the work to make them operational having been done in great haste. There was this one class of 80-ton coastal minesweepers I judged too small, deciding that the limit for inclusions in these lists is the ability to carry at least a 35mm gun, even if one is not normally shipped.

Note also includes Maritime Border Guard forces.
Last edited by The Duchess of Zeon on 2009-05-29 05:11pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-29 12:01am

Note that these lists are just being compiled based on hulls in existence which should at least have some ability to be restored to service--they ignore a certain number of older hulls which are just unfeasable, like a bunch of old US missile cruisers sitting at Suisun whose steam plants have gone to hell, some museum ships, the battleships, HMS Caroline, etc.

Stas might know how many of the mothballed ships can actually be restored to service in Russia by the standards we're using--engineering in good preservation, essentially--and his comments might pare the list down, or open possibilities I'm not aware of.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by K. A. Pital » 2009-05-29 12:47am

Where's the Lada class (677) SSK, I would believe it would be rushed into commission, or with so much re-activation on hand, the boat would be left to wait? Why only 3 Kirovs?
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-29 12:55am

Stas Bush wrote:Where's the Lada class (677) SSK, I would believe it would be rushed into commission, or with so much re-activation on hand, the boat would be left to wait? Why only 3 Kirovs?
It seems that the first ship of a new class would still have to be tested for safety reasons, even if all the other vessels in that class could then be rushed into service without the usual testing. And remember that this list is ships in duty effective December of 2008--the Lada 677 would certainly by in service by February or March of 2009, but I do not think would be quite ready yet, and then would still have to undergo trials. A lot of reactivation however would also tend to hinder things, but broadly speaking, the new classes currently under construction will simply still require more extensive trials, even as we'll see follow-ships of that class commissioned without them. Kirov herself also unfortunately also appears suited for (and is, as I understand it, planned to be) scrapped, and her name has been transfered to another ship. That said, there was apparently an abortive reconstruction attempt in 2001, cancelled in 2003, which may now be revived.

If that's the case, though, I think it would take longer than 11 months, and so it would be still be taking place, and she'd probably emerge substantially modified.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by Pelranius » 2009-05-29 02:37pm

Should the Russians take the Varyag? I mean the Chinese has substantially modified it to their own specs even as of December 2008, but the Russians already have a trained pool of aircraft carrier pilots while China doesn't. On the other hand, I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble and expense of tying up a Russian drydock when you can build new things.

And someone needs to restart the Su-33 production line ASAP.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-29 04:44pm

Carriers are fairly prestigeous items, and I'm not sure the Chinese would part with her? The Indians don't have a choice because she was in a Russian dockyard, thanks to the Churchill principle.

I suppose someone could try to turn Minsk-world and Kiev-world into aircraft carriers again, but that would be worth a lot more headaches than the ship would be...

Also we have to realize that there's probably going to be a fair amount of carrier construction taking place. I suspect the British order for the CVF has been increased from 2 hulls to 5 as the destruction of Sheffield and the continued threat of sustained war means much higher defense spending is acceptable. The French have probably stayed in the CVF programme and ordered at least 3 -- there's enough large shipyard capacity in both France and Britain to handle that; in addition I wouldn't be surprised if the old Clemenceau has been restored to the Marine Nationale, at least temporarily. The Indian native carrier programme, accelerated and with some American help, is probably proceeding very rapidly with one of their own carriers to replace poor old Hermes, who gets to fight another war, and add more onto that number. Bazan and the Italian yards are probably collectively building 27,000-ton-ish ships based on the Bazan 220 hull design for Italy and Spain (especially with cancellation of the F-35), two each; the Brazilians and Argentines have probably each ordered one as well. Australia might also commit to 2 such ships, as would Canada. The Japanese have probably authorized the building of up to three carriers in the 30,000 ton range, and I wouldn't be surprised if South Korea had already started construction on some light carrier design as well--they have one of the largest shipbuilding industries in the world and are incredibly clever about it. In light of that the PLAN will go ahead and finish Varyag as the carrier Shi Lang, which they might well already be doing OTL.


That essentially rounds out the nations which want/can have carriers in the Armageddon-verse, I'd say, the exception being that the Ukraine might build one of its own at Nikolayaev for reasons of national pride. For that matter the Russians have probably gone ahead and prepared construction on new hulls by expanding the slips at Baltic / Admiralty or maybe on the White Sea. Carriers are immensely useful for power-projection into the hellzone, necessary in fact, when the hellzone's landmass is completely surrounded by water, they let you reach any coastal point, and thus, you can strike any area in hell from, at maximum, the radius of the hellzone continent and usually less. And since everyone has the deeply vested interest of liberating their dead family members, military expenditures running to 8 - 10% of the national GDP will become the indefinite norm in most of the world, not the temporary surge of a war, and remain there for decades until the situation stabilizes; I'm sure the USA will push up to Eisenhower-era levels of 15%.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by JN1 » 2009-05-29 08:18pm

I suspect the British order for the CVF has been increased from 2 hulls to 5 as the destruction of Sheffield and the continued threat of sustained war means much higher defense spending is acceptable.
Carriers have a long build time, I'd always suspected that the Queen Elizabeth class would have been kicked into the long grass in favour of ships that can be built quickly and cheaply. IMVHO the QEs will probably end up like the Audacious class - be suspended for the duration.

I'll see what Stu thinks on this as it may effect something I was going to write.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by Pelranius » 2009-05-29 08:29pm

Is there any room for gun armed destroyers and cruisers? They could go up to calibers like 203mm and 240mm (I can't really think of any real situation with the demons needing something in the weight range of a 305/320mm that can't be handled with cruise missiles and large rocket artillery).

It might not appeal to first rate military powers, but people like Iran and other Mid Eastern states might find them very convenient.
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The Duchess of Zeon
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-29 10:54pm

I think that in terms of gun armed ships, if we need fire support like that, it's going to come in the form of basically reinforced freighter hulls carrying a brace of 155mm MONARC-type seamount installation turrets like the ones intended for the F-124s in Germany.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by K. A. Pital » 2009-05-30 12:14am

Minsk and Kiev are in good condition actually, because the Chinese were never really sure on what to do with them; so they did a fair lot of anti-corrosive work inside and outside them both (I've been to the Minsk). I am confident that the PLAN will finish the Varyag as it's own carrier; Russia has no rights to it, also considering that it was Ukraine who sold the Varyag in the first place. If the Chinese really ramp shit up, they might end up with a 3-carrier fleet far earlier than they otherwise would have even a single one.

As for the Russian Navy, etc. I'll look up what major combatants are still in shape to be reactivated and what ships are absolutely positively gone at the end of year 2008, so that the set-up is realistic.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by Pelranius » 2009-05-30 12:30am

I wonder what China can use for fighters though? They could theoretically stick on one of their fighter trainers like the JL-9 or L-15, since the Su-33 production line is likely to have an enormous backlog as the Russians will obviously get first dibs the finished products (and the same for the Harrier, even if someone decides to open it up again).
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by The Duchess of Zeon » 2009-05-30 12:35am

Pelranius wrote:I wonder what China can use for fighters though? They could theoretically stick on one of their fighter trainers like the JL-9 or L-15, since the Su-33 production line is likely to have an enormous backlog as the Russians will obviously get first dibs the finished products (and the same for the Harrier, even if someone decides to open it up again).

F/A-18s. The USN will be stuck at 13 - 14 carriers or so for quite some time as we can't build them that fast, and JFK's functionality even in such desperate circumstances is rather marginal. Enough for a few years until a replacement comes on the line but I don't see us able to keep her in service for more than five or six years. So we'll rapidly exceed the number of carrier-borne aircraft we actually need, and they can be traded to the Chinese in exchange for free munitions from Norinco or whatnot.
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Re: Armageddon Table of Contents, Summary, and Reference

Post by Pelranius » 2009-05-30 02:19pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Pelranius wrote:I wonder what China can use for fighters though? They could theoretically stick on one of their fighter trainers like the JL-9 or L-15, since the Su-33 production line is likely to have an enormous backlog as the Russians will obviously get first dibs the finished products (and the same for the Harrier, even if someone decides to open it up again).

F/A-18s. The USN will be stuck at 13 - 14 carriers or so for quite some time as we can't build them that fast, and JFK's functionality even in such desperate circumstances is rather marginal. Enough for a few years until a replacement comes on the line but I don't see us able to keep her in service for more than five or six years. So we'll rapidly exceed the number of carrier-borne aircraft we actually need, and they can be traded to the Chinese in exchange for free munitions from Norinco or whatnot.
That would work out pretty well. Though it'd probably be better to have them install Chinese avionics, we don't what to give away our stuff and it would simplify logistics for them. As for Chinese munitions, I can think of all those long range rocket artillery that they have, especially the WS series, in addition to the usual stock of NORINCO bullets and shells.
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