Armageddon???? (Part Fifty Up)

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » 2008-03-30 11:17pm

Starglider wrote: I made it up, so it if is real it's a case of serendipity. Explosively pumped flux compression generators are real of course, and using superconducting coils would improve their efficiency and power-handling capability. The emitter is another issue; one or more magnetrons would be a lot simpler and more robust but klystrons (I always loved that name ) are a lot more precise. A simple broadband EMP wouldn't do the trick here - the notional military application was more like a short burst of very, very, very intense multi-spot jamming (I imagine 3 or 4 tubes were allocated to each of 3 or 4 frequencies). I have no idea if this would actually accomplish anything against 1980s Soviet tank armies, but it sounds like the kind of thing that would be researched if only as a sponge for KGB spies.

Oh, things like that existed all right - that's why I passed it and put it in. The intention was to black out whole sectors of the front by taking down all the emitters in that area. Unit by unit jamming was considered out of the question (there were parts of the Central Front where an aircraft could be illuminated by over a thousand radars simultaneously). The problem was more or less as I described; the way we dealt with that particular problem wasn't to address the radars at all but to take down the command system. That way, it didn't matter what the radars saw; the command system was blind.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-03-30 11:40pm

DarthShady wrote:Great chapter. I am beginning to like Satan as a character.
If you nuke it from our side, it vanishes for a few minutes then reappears. If you nuke it from the Hell side, grows larger.
It seems pointless to close the portal. As long as it is open we can expect the armies of hell to come through it and we can go in. If we close it they can just open it again in the same place, or worse they open it somewhere else.

That's exactly what I was thinking. We know they can open a new portal at will, so what's the point of closing this one? As long as it's open for two-way travel, Hell must tie up some of its forces defending their end. If we should manage to close it, then we have no way of moving heavy equipment or aircraft into Hell, but the demons can always open up a new portal. After all, they did it before.

Then again, it could still be worthwhile to have the option available, even if you don't use it.

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2008-03-30 11:48pm

Mongoose wrote:
“Send him in.” Satan stared morosely as Asmodeus crawled in on his belly.

“Your Majesty, I abase myself before you.”

“Not enough. And your cringing is inadequate also.”
Am I the only one who's actually starting to like Satan more than the other characters, in a kind of Darth Vaderish way?

No you are not...
I love him!!! I love him!!! I love him!!! I loveeeee himmmmmmmmmm!!!

Other words, it took too long Stuart for you to post!!
Do I need to take out my cattle prod?

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-03-31 12:16am

I can think of a good reason to knock out a portal for a few minutes: cut off escape or reinforcements for a few critical minutes. For Hell this probably isn't that big of a deal, especially since their portal is on the ground, but with Heaven since they're so big on absolute authority I would bet that if you were to cut an army in half by sealing off the portal, plus the regular effects of the nuke, you could sow an absurd amount of chaos in the ranks of the angels (I still say their derisive name should be percys). Given the fact that angels seem more airborne than the baldricks, they could very well open up a Heaven Gate in the air and thus buying a few extra minutes could be very useful, perhaps enough time to let your fighters and AA pick off the survivors of the nuke and reload, rearm, and refuel for the next half instead of being overrun by sheer numbers.

Also, with what he have seen of Satan's character, do you think he might decide to just cut his losses one way or another when he sees the parallels to his own history? How he broke away from an oppressor and can see this happening to him now? I doubt he would capitulate, but I could see him saying, "Fuck this shit, I'm out of here" before history repeats itself.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-03-31 12:57am

Academia Nut wrote:I can think of a good reason to knock out a portal for a few minutes: cut off escape or reinforcements for a few critical minutes.

Good point.

Given the fact that angels seem more airborne than the baldricks, they could very well open up a Heaven Gate in the air and thus buying a few extra minutes could be very useful, perhaps enough time to let your fighters and AA pick off the survivors of the nuke and reload, rearm, and refuel for the next half instead of being overrun by sheer numbers.

Sounds like we need to put the W25, W30, W45, and/or W54 nuclear weapons back in production, along with the rockets and/or missiles to carry them.

Also, with what he have seen of Satan's character, do you think he might decide to just cut his losses one way or another when he sees the parallels to his own history? How he broke away from an oppressor and can see this happening to him now? I doubt he would capitulate, but I could see him saying, "Fuck this shit, I'm out of here" before history repeats itself.

If Satan asks himself, "Should I just quit and move somewhere else?" he'll also have to ask himself, "Where can I go? Where will I be safe? Who will shelter me?" The likely answers are "Nowhere, nowhere, no one," meaning Satan doesn't have the option of saying, "Fuck this shit, I'm out of here."

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 2008-03-31 01:16am

Stuart wrote:Private Quarters, Palace of Satan, Dis, Hell

Satan contemplated the goblet of wine in front of him and sighed moodily. Then he grabbed the orc servitor that had brought him the cup and wrung him out over the still, red liquid. When the luckless orc was quit dead, he threw its mutilated corpse into a corner. Behind him the majordomo also sighed. Good staff was getting so hard to keep these days.

Satan didn’t worry himself with such mundane concerns. He had much more important things on his mind than his domestic staff. He stirred the wine with a talon, watching the contents of the goblet dissolve the organs squeezed out of the luckless orc, and then drank it down. Especially domestic staff that didn’t taste good. Had Yahweh planned this whole mess?

ORCS!

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2008-03-31 03:13am

Mongoose wrote:Am I the only one who's actually starting to like Satan more than the other characters, in a kind of Darth Vaderish way?

Now you know how I've been feeling... but this will not be sufficient unless Satan gets his smackdown too. (Seeing as I'm not as anti-Heaven as it seems other people here are... if anything, I like both Heaven and Hell more than the human side.

)

P.S. Dear... Stuart, is this Gen. Moseley the same one that SECDEF Gates (IRL) has been said to have privately reprimanded over Raptor procurement?

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-03-31 03:24am

Starglider wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:Flying Crowbar
You do realise that most of hell is filled with sympathetic humans? Far better to send it into heaven, where there aren't many humans and they're allied with the enemy anyway.

Even better!

Stuart wrote:Yahweh had never forgotten Satan’s rebellion that had established Hell as an independent entity. Oh, Yahweh was happy enough claiming victory and boasting of how Satan had been ‘cast down’ but the truth was simple. Before Satan’s rebellion, Heaven and Hell had been one entity, ruled by Yahweh. Now they were two independent entities and Yahweh ruled only one of them.

To Asmodeus’s amazement, Satan actually smiled. “The Liberation of Hell. I fought for that once. And won.”

I think that might explain something I had been wondering about, namely, why the hell does Hell seems to be so thoroughly caked with Dukes. A Duke is one step down from a King, they're supposed to be mighty rare. I think that back during the rebellion, Satan might have gotten some support by handing out the title like candy.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-03-31 03:28am

Ducal realms are not so odd if Satan ranks as an Emperor; however, overly analyzing and attempting to conform the noble rankings of the demons to our own conventions is probably not reasonable.

JBG · Post by **JBG** » 2008-03-31 03:39am

“Your Majesty, I abase myself before you.”

“Not enough. And your cringing is inadequate also.”

I can't help thinking that I have heard a very similar phrase before. Blackadder? Is Rowan Atkinson available to play Satan in any movie version?

“It’s a device, not a bomb, and it initiates, not explodes.” The targeteer spoke idly. “But you’re right, it was a clumsy device, even for a B-36. We built five of them in early ’54 designated the TX-16.”

A targeteer. If "we" includes him, are we seeing the Seer? That would be a twist!!!

Another fascinating chapter Stuart.

Jonathan

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2008-03-31 04:29am

An interesting twist on conventional theology. Satan fought for the right to his own realm, as opposed to attempting to invade and capture heaven, deposing God.

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2008-03-31 09:29am

PainRack wrote:An interesting twist on conventional theology. Satan fought for the right to his own realm, as opposed to attempting to invade and capture heaven, deposing God.

Invade from where? I'm not familiar with the King James Bible, admittedly.

JN1 · Post by **JN1** » 2008-03-31 10:16am

Edward Yee wrote:
PainRack wrote:An interesting twist on conventional theology. Satan fought for the right to his own realm, as opposed to attempting to invade and capture heaven, deposing God.
Invade from where? I'm not familiar with the King James Bible, admittedly.

AFAIK, and I'm no Biblical scholar Satan/Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, rather than having invaded it. Prior to being cast out he was God's right hand angel.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-03-31 10:19am

The Bible is rather circumspect on what happened between Satan and God. At times they are portrayed as mortal enemies, yet they seem to have a working relationship. In the Book of Job, they actually seem like drinking buddies, and they make a friendly wager about how Job will react when they fuck up his life and kill his family on a lark.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2008-03-31 10:34am

Darth Wong wrote:The Bible is rather circumspect on what happened between Satan and God. At times they are portrayed as mortal enemies, yet they seem to have a working relationship. In the Book of Job, they actually seem like drinking buddies, and they make a friendly wager about how Job will react when they fuck up his life and kill his family on a lark.

It also seems to imply a more human Satan then what other places describe. Satan is described as walking the land and examing human beings like test cases. God is also disgustingly free with his followers. Initially, (not literal translation), "Hurt him in all his fields, but leave his body and mind whole." What kind of god does that to his 'best servent'?

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2008-03-31 02:20pm

Edward Yee wrote:
PainRack wrote:An interesting twist on conventional theology. Satan fought for the right to his own realm, as opposed to attempting to invade and capture heaven, deposing God.
Invade from where? I'm not familiar with the King James Bible, admittedly.

My apologies. I was referring to his attempt to seize control of heaven and forgot that the term should be a coup.

This does lead to an interesting question though. Why the different political philosophies? Why does Heaven choose to gather its energy from "praise", coercing worship while Hell gets its energy from torture?

It would be interesting to see the difference between Heaven military and Hell, if any exist.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2008-03-31 02:22pm

It seems to me that the device proposed could do more than just shut down the hellmouth. It seems to be capable, theoretically, of excerting some finer control over it - like influencing its size.
This would seem quite useful during the upcoming invasion. Make it smaller during troop movements through it to bottleneck the demons and make them more manageable. Enlarge it temporarily to open up their flanks when we go in.

With even finer control we might even be able to influence the direction the hellmouth is facing. And turning it 90 degrees to the horizontal might come in useful now and then.

But damn, now my mind is wandering off-topic - "Now you're thinking with Portals!" - towards a recently popular Valve game.

Darmalus · Post by **Darmalus** » 2008-03-31 02:36pm

Haha! It would be hilarious to put the portal a mile in the air and facing down. It will be raining demons next time they invade.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2008-03-31 03:40pm

Questions on this kinda vague spiritual soul energy stuff:

So, our dimension is at a lower level. The hellmouth is staying open because of all the energy gradient, correct? Does that mean that energy (dark energy?) from our dimension is pouring into hell?

Also, if people build up this soul energy as they live which gets shunted over when they die, does that mean people who die younger have less energy? Where would babies and fetuses and down to zygotes fit into this? Could this be where the part about unbaptized babies going to Limbo come from? There's so little energy to them that they just go poof or are little spectres floating around along the outer walls?

Creepy to think about.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2008-03-31 03:47pm

Mayabird wrote:So, our dimension is at a lower level. The hellmouth is staying open because of all the energy gradient, correct? Does that mean that energy (dark energy?) from our dimension is pouring into hell?

No, the other way around. The 'lower' vs 'higher' distinction comes from the metaphor of water (energy) flowing downhill. My model is that the spatial metric 'between' the dimensions is tangled in some way, such that there's usually no correlation between where a particle of this energy exits a higher dimension and where in the lower dimension it appears. Massive bursts of the microwave energy can percipitate out as rings of 'strange matter' in the interdimensional void, which 'flattens' the spatial metric into a coherent tunnel joining specific points. The tunnel also concentrates the natural energy flow, which breaks down the fabric of space at each end, creating gateways that conventional solid matter can traverse. The demons can make these tunnels stable, the humans can't as yet and have to keep pumping microwaves in to keep them open.

The 'spiritual energy' humans have may or may not be related to the continously flowing energy that the portals use. Your suggestion that the later causes the effect we currently call 'dark energy' is a good one.

Where would babies and fetuses and down to zygotes fit into this?

Interesting point, even for children, the question of whether they finnish growing up in hell is open (and a fairly disturbing thought either way).

Creepy to think about.

Indeed.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2008-03-31 03:56pm

Darmalus wrote:Haha! It would be hilarious to put the portal a mile in the air and facing down. It will be raining demons next time they invade.

Actually just getting it to spin might already be enough to make it unusable to the demons. Everything sent through will end up back in hell while we, with good timing, can still shoot stuff through.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2008-03-31 04:12pm

KlavoHunter wrote:ORCS!

That actually made me wonder, is an Orc a type of demon, or is this a species from another world in Satan's domain?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2008-03-31 04:25pm

In popular fantasy, "orc" has begun to describe things sufficiently pig-like. I had assumed it was just some particularly porcine variety of demon.

Robo Jesus · Post by **Robo Jesus** » 2008-03-31 07:39pm

Here's something I want to know. How different is the dietary intakes between a demon and an angel? I mean, the demons could be considered a subspecies of the Angels, so does that mean that the angels too would dine on their 'brethren' when they need to, or do the Angels supplement their diets with fruits and grains in addition to meat instead of engaging in cannibalism like the demons do?

Also, it's obvious that neither the angels nor the demons can really stomach milk based products, so cheeses and the like would definitely be out. Has anyone thought about supplementing the captive demons diet with insects and the like? They're full of protein and nutrients, easy to breed in large quantities, and would be much cheaper once production gets pumping to feed the demons with than with raw steaks.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2008-03-31 08:03pm

Robo Jesus wrote:Here's something I want to know. How different is the dietary intakes between a demon and an angel? I mean, the demons could be considered a subspecies of the Angels, so does that mean that the angels too would dine on their 'brethren' when they need to, or do the Angels supplement their diets with fruits and grains in addition to meat instead of engaging in cannibalism like the demons do?

Also, it's obvious that neither the angels nor the demons can really stomach milk based products, so cheeses and the like would definitely be out. Has anyone thought about supplementing the captive demons diet with insects and the like? They're full of protein and nutrients, easy to breed in large quantities, and would be much cheaper once production gets pumping to feed the demons with than with raw steaks.

Well, Yahweh was pretty big on animal sacrifices and barbecues in the Old Testament, and was once distinctly displeased when some poor schmuck tried to offer him vegetables. It's, therefore, probable that angels, like demons, are also obligate carnivores.