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Academia Nut wrote:I also see psychological warfare against the demons with leaflets being dropped on them saying things like "Defection ensures citizenship!" Probably just annoy the higher levels, but if casualty ratios remain high, the lesser guys might start thinking, "You know, maybe these freedom things they're talking about will give me a better deal".

The humans have to have a realistic (in the demon's eyes) chance of winning, or at least forcing a stalemate, for that to be a sane choice. Otherwise you've just got a few months/years of 'freedom' before Hell conquers earth and you get slated for hideous punnishments. Of course if it's a choice between a slim chance of surviving on the human side and certain death, defecting early starts to look much better.

Academia Nut wrote:I was talking with a friend about what world governments will officially do with any demonic defectors and the paperwork involved, when I came to the sudden realization that probably, horrifically enough, as soon as the bureaucrats discovered that there was a Hell they got right on task to updating their forms and procedures.

OH GOD NO!

Death is no longer a constant, but Taxes are!

"Sir, You owe the government $121,102,189,102 dollars, sir."

Heh. Oh yeah Satan being forced to pay the IRS..."I`m tyhe prince of Darkness!"

"Yes, sir but you still need to file sir. Also we are going to audit you"

On the subject of how society would change, I see the belief of Secular Humanism expanding to fill the ritualistic void that WILL need to be filled in the lives of most people.

The need to belong to a part of something and to be inspired by it is a powerful drive, and I think it will still be present even after the Message. Not sure if it would be better to adapt Religious Humanism or Secular Humanism, to be honest, but I think churches will continue to exist in some form.

Speaking of which, what has happened to church assets? Did the catholic church suddenly transform into the largest real estate mogul and discount antiquities dealer on earth?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Would we have to ammend the constitution to extend rights to nonhuman citizens?

This might perhaps happen in time, but I would expect humans, should they win against such a hienous foe, after a long war, to simply enslave the demons, at least initially. 'Getting our own back' as it were.

NecronLord wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Would we have to ammend the constitution to extend rights to nonhuman citizens?

This might perhaps happen in time, but I would expect humans, should they win against such a hienous foe, after a long war, to simply enslave the demons, at least initially. 'Getting our own back' as it were.

Conquered demons, sure, but what about demons who defect? Or ones who are emancipated by their 'masters'?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Conquered demons, sure, but what about demons who defect?

Sympathetically naieve though the one in the story is, I would expect that vivisection and medical experimentation await her.

Or ones who are emancipated by their 'masters'?

Humm? You mean civillians should the place be occupied. I'm sure the humans could find something onerous for them to do.

The last thing a Baldrick army sees....hopefully in the future

NecronLord wrote:Sympathetically naieve though the one in the story is, vivisection and medical experimentation awaits her.

Actually I doubt it. They have (or soon will have) many thousands of dead or near-dead demons to disect/vivisect, and probably at least many hundreds of non-cooperative or just shellshocked prisoners. Humanity has exactly one willing defector ATM. That's not a resource you waste on one more vivisection; there wouldn't be much to gain from it anyway, the succubi's illusion power has been pretty thoroughly defeated and they don't have the more dangerous telepathy powers that the demons in Abigor's army seem to have.

Out-of-context, the leading characters in most of Stuart's stories have a habit of maintaining the moral high ground despite desperate circumstances forcing them to do terrible things, and vivisecting willing defectors doesn't really fit in with that.

There's so many more valuable things you can do with a live demon than disect it. Just having someone who can manifest illusions and mind-influence in a controlled environment would be HUGE. It could let scientists perfect ways of not just seeing through illusions, but negating them as an area effect. For example, a scattering field across the entrance to a building which forces demons to be visible in their true form.

Plus, just the mundane intelligence she could provide. She knows the broad-strokes of the political and heirarchical structure of hell, as well as its general practices, geography, culture, and the capabilities of demons.

A willing defector has propaganda value too, especially once they get the hang of making radio style broadcasts to hell. Having willing demons on your side can't hurt.

Starglider wrote:Humanity has exactly one willing defector ATM. That's not a resource you waste on one more vivisection;

Look at the context I was replying to. It is obvious that the scenario being talked about in that post envisions defectors, plural. Though one would expect runaways from the battle or POWs would provide a more plentiful source of general demon stock to analyse, in any case. And even then, 'defector' is a rather generous term, I'd say captive, given that guns are the only thing stopping the one example we've seen pulling hearts out.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Plus, just the mundane intelligence she could provide. She knows the broad-strokes of the political and heirarchical structure of hell, as well as its general practices, geography, culture, and the capabilities of demons.

And when that's done, or they decide she might be holding out on something?

Awww, all these humans so concered about vile temptress Lugasharmanaska, who for all you know is playing a wonderful double bluff to gain the human's confidence with the aim of assassinating their top scientists. But no one is cheering for poor old infantrydemon Krykojanklawas.

Starglider wrote:Awww, all these humans so concered about vile temptress Lugasharmanaska, who for all you know is playing a wonderful double bluff to gain the human's confidence with the aim of assassinating their top scientists.

Quite. At best, despite some sweet-talking, she's still basically being coerced by the threat of death. That's not a willing defector, that's a prisoner.

Starglider wrote:But no one is cheering for poor old infantrydemon Krykojanklawas.

*gives Kryk a shovel*

Does that make you feel better?

Surlethe wrote:The fact people arrive in groups is going to be no surprise to the baldricks, and I'll bet that for obvious army units the baldricks take the obvious precaution of splitting it up into smaller units.

Also, there may be supermax Hells for dangerous prisoners, which inspired mythological accounts of Hell having different levels for different kinds of sinners. Cocytus, where you're supposedly frozen into a glacier, presumably paralyzed and unable to move, fits the bill. I believe there are also supposedly some sinners who are punished by having their limbs deformed so as to render them useless.

Lugasharmanaska

Surlethe wrote:

DarthShady wrote:Considering how many troops hell has lost, is there a possibility of a counter attack any time soon?

No. Hell has lost approximately 0.06% of its fighting force so far, and has committed only 0.9% of its total strength to the field. Humanity is in for a long fight.

Oh, yes. It will take my nation, at minimum, two years to raise a division, probably two and a half and thats assuming we get the necessary equipment in a timely manner. Long wars are long for a reason.

On the bright side, imagine all the regimental unamalgamations going on throughout the commonwealth armies, regiments will be reentering the army lists that haven't been seen for nigh on eighty years.

Stuart wrote:Lugasharmanaska

image snipped

How on earth do you get these images out so fast? You're some kind of wizard I say, a wizard!

Also excellent work, this is quickly becoming my favorite piece on the internet.

Xess wrote:

Stuart wrote:Lugasharmanaska

image snipped

How on earth do you get these images out so fast? You're some kind of wizard I say, a wizard!

Also excellent work, this is quickly becoming my favorite piece on the internet.

He probably just stole it off of Deviantart.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:On the subject of how society would change, I see the belief of Secular Humanism expanding to fill the ritualistic void that WILL need to be filled in the lives of most people.

How so? There's plenty of other religions that can fill the gap.

I think a kind of perhaps even chauvinistic humanism will become in vogue, actually, given the "we're all in this together" characteristic to the Earth-Hell War, and the fact that the most devout Abrahamics laid down and died.

MKSheppard wrote:

The last thing a Baldrick army sees....hopefully in the future

Why does it have a parachute?

From my admittedly very limited understanding, the parachute is to retard the bomb's fall, to give the launch aircraft time to GTFO.

For a conventional explosive, I think the main hazard at low altitude is shrapnel (case fragments, etc) which can sod an aircraft up nicely.

Nukes, same idea, on bigger scale, with required bigger chute and launched from higher altitude.

Xess wrote:How on earth do you get these images out so fast? You're some kind of wizard I say, a wizard! Also excellent work, this is quickly becoming my favorite piece on the internet.

KlavoHunter wrote: He probably just stole it off of Deviantart.

Not deviantart, to be honest, I don't remember where I found it and can't find it again. When I start writing a story I get together pictures of the leading fictional characters, that helps keep things on track. This story is easier than most because there are so many "real" characters in it. Some of them I know or have at least met so I've got a pretty good idea about how they'll react.