StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Peptuck wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote: You're complaining that the story isn't the kind you like. That's like me bitching about the lack of ninjas in Robin Hood.

Sigged. This is the truth.

You beat me to it! Damn you to SUPERHELL.

wickeddyno wrote:Maybe the published version should play up this aspect of how close it was? I missed that until the wookie explained things.

I'm partially agreeing, even though I had no trouble understanding it myself.

However, the existence of those comments show that it was a little to subtle for a few.

Don't call them all stupid, everybody comprehends things differently.
This is an ice cream sunday.
It's the writer and editors job to provide sprinkles here and there.

Ascaloth wrote: Well, we need as many slash reviews as we can get to make TSW a bestseller, and who better than someone like Ryan who would be actually motivated to write one? This is one troll I'd advocate we keep feeding, guys; we need him to come up with a cracker that'll send the sales of the dead-tree version soaring.

If we can get the sales high enough, we might be able to sell the film rights as well. Although I suspect it would have to be done in two "volumes" like Kill Bill. The slash-review thing is interesting; I suspect people work on the basis that if somebody hates the book so much, it must have something going for it. Most of the slash-reviews are pretty pathetic. In the case of TSW though, the fundies and other nuts will be out in force so we ought to concentrate on good reviews to balance them out.

The in-story reasoning behind the reticence over using nukes was two-fold, one of them being a conscious decision to keep them back as an ace-in-the-hole in case things turned very ugly, very quickly. After all, at the time the stories were taking place, the human protagonists had no idea what they were really up against or what was still to come. In fact, to a large extent, they still don't. They know that the parts of Heaven and Hell they have invaded and occupied are at a very early stage of military development and can't cope with what is being thrown at them but they are aware there is a lot out there that is still unknown. They are also becoming aware that they are likely to run into other groups that might be a lot more dangerous. So, they are being very circumspect about what gives. The other reason is that there is an ingrained reluctance to go nuclear; it's an impressed thought pattern that doing so will have the direst of consequences. The thought pattern is that one tries everything conventional first, then goes nuclear only as a last resort.

What really saved things at Hit were the truck bombs used by the al Qaeda and Iraqi Insurgents. By blowing themselves up in the middle of the attacking Baldrick groups, they bought just enough time for the crumbling American force (who had been pushed back to their last defense line and were running out of everything - supplies, ideas and time) to consolidate in their final defense positions. The arrival of the Apaches (more precisely their ability to operate due to casualties inflicted on the harpies - one on one, an attack helicopter will outmatch a harpy but five-on-one is another matter and the odds are actually dozens-on-one) allowed the regular troops to start pushing the Baldricks out of the city.

Thanks Stuart for the response. Given this reason, I am suprised that the decision was made to then nuke the army of light in Heaven. It seems the human conventional forces where well equipped to go after and destroy this army. I mean three well equipped army groups where been brought into Heaven. They seemed to have the situation much more in hand than when they faced Satan's armies in Hell. I know there was more concerns about the Eternal city. Was it pay back and revenge for Tel Aviv and everything else the Angels did to the humans? Was it the fact that with Putin as overall head that the Russians are less reluctant to go nuclear than the US? Do the Russians have the same feelings about going nuclear that the US has?

Stuart wrote:If we can get the sales high enough, we might be able to sell the film rights as well. Although I suspect it would have to be done in two "volumes" like Kill Bill. The slash-review thing is interesting; I suspect people work on the basis that if somebody hates the book so much, it must have something going for it. Most of the slash-reviews are pretty pathetic. In the case of TSW though, the fundies and other nuts will be out in force so we ought to concentrate on good reviews to balance them out.

I frankly don't see the issue here. The stink of fundie batshittery is strong and unmistakable, and past a certain volume just grows to be so much white noise. I bet your target audience will quickly learn to scroll past the slash reviews once they get a whiff of fundie, so perhaps it's impossible to get too many of them.

Now that I think of it, given that you did give him a cameo early on, I wonder if it's possible to get the RL Richard Dawkins to put in a good word for this.

I don't see Stuart's portrayal of Dawkins as particularly flattering. If I had been reading and commenting on the ongoing chapters back when Armageddon? was being written and Dawkins appeared, I would have pointed out that the promotion of atheism and secularism is only a relatively small part of what Dawkins's life's work has been about. If you look at what he's published, he's written 8 books about evolution, 1 collection of essays that's a mix of evolution and anti-religion, and 1 book that's anti-religion. The evolution books are anti-creationism, of course, but that's to be expected.

I agree that in the aftermath of an event like The Message, people like Dawkins would be at risk from crazies, though.

Stuart wrote:

Ascaloth wrote: Well, we need as many slash reviews as we can get to make TSW a bestseller, and who better than someone like Ryan who would be actually motivated to write one? This is one troll I'd advocate we keep feeding, guys; we need him to come up with a cracker that'll send the sales of the dead-tree version soaring.

If we can get the sales high enough, we might be able to sell the film rights as well. Although I suspect it would have to be done in two "volumes" like Kill Bill. The slash-review thing is interesting; I suspect people work on the basis that if somebody hates the book so much, it must have something going for it. Most of the slash-reviews are pretty pathetic. In the case of TSW though, the fundies and other nuts will be out in force so we ought to concentrate on good reviews to balance them out.

Here are some other tactics I've seen used. The efficacy of some of these are questionable, but, like I've said, pretty much every author uses them.
1. Game Amazon
1a. Tell your friends/fans to buy on the release date, not preorder.
1b. Wait until you get a negative review before you send your fans in to swamp your book with positive reviews.
1c. Before the book is even published, Amazon will collect search terms. However, names tend to change when they get to the publisher. Wait until the name is finalized, then, before you buy anything on Amazon, you search for the book.
2. Game bookstores.
2a. Bookstores keep track of what people ask, IF they search for it using a computer.
Have your freinds/fan/feinds ask for a book search at the help desk.
2b. Your book needs to be seen. Move a few copies from the shelf (never the entire stock) to the display at the front of the store. Be discrete, but If you are caught, be honest.
2c. Book store employees read a lot, and recommend books a lot. If you talk to them about the book, it will be on your mind. The best time to do this, is when they walk over to the cafe for their break. Just sit down, and read the book. Occasionally say "Woah" , "Wow" etc.
The book store employee will often ask about the book if they see you enjoying it.
Do not be creepy. Let them ignore you if they don't want to socialize.
3. Write wikipedia articles.
3a. There are often issues with notability, especially for a self published book. However, a self published book that has actually sold copies will get in. You will have to write the article more than once. They erase everyone at least once.
3b. Also write an author article, complete with bio.
4. Book signings.
4a. Many people will show up to book signings just because they collect books with signatures.
When your favorite author comes to town to sign the books, you make sure that theupcoming book signing is listed in every newspaper, local website, online community calender etc. If the line gets long enough to reach down the block, you are doing ok.
5. Google.
5a. Everybody knows how to do a google bomb. I'm not suggesting it.
5b. I'm suggesting you donate a few free copies to the breakrooms at Google. I'm not suggesting google will take the book as a bribe and change the internet for you. I'm saying that if the folks are talking about it at google, then it will get talked about elseware.
6. Free ebook
6a. Many publishers will do this already. But sometimes the author has to ask. If you have a trilogy, they'll give away the first book, knowing they've hooked you for the rest.

Uncluttered wrote:Here are some other tactics I've seen used. The efficacy of some of these are questionable, but, like I've said, pretty much every author uses them.

Some of them are, although you don't want to get a reputation for being like this guy.

wickeddyno wrote:I don't see Stuart's portrayal of Dawkins as particularly flattering. If I had been reading and commenting on the ongoing chapters back when Armageddon? was being written and Dawkins appeared, I would have pointed out that the promotion of atheism and secularism is only a relatively small part of what Dawkins's life's work has been about. If you look at what he's published, he's written 8 books about evolution, 1 collection of essays that's a mix of evolution and anti-religion, and 1 book that's anti-religion. The evolution books are anti-creationism, of course, but that's to be expected.

I agree that in the aftermath of an event like The Message, people like Dawkins would be at risk from crazies, though.

Thats OK. I don't find Dawkins portrayal of Dawkins flattering either.

Guardsman Bass wrote:

Uncluttered wrote:Here are some other tactics I've seen used. The efficacy of some of these are questionable, but, like I've said, pretty much every author uses them.

Some of them are, although you don't want to get a reputation for being like this guy.

I've never seen a real author use sockpuppets* for promotion. They have friends and fans to do that for them. This guy you describe doesn't seem like a typical author.

Real authors use sockpuppets only to talk trash at fanholes without ruining their reputation.
If the fanhole is anonymous, why can't the Author be?

I suspect it's nice to be able to vent without ending up a headline for a day. You never know when the asshole you talk trash to over the internet is physically/mentally disabled. Then all of a sudden, the headline on slashdot is "Prominent Author hates disabled people".
They won't know unless they read the full article, that the disabled person is a complete douchnozzle and a half.

*Sockpuppet implies the Author also has an official account on the same site. The funny part, is that publicists will often be the one to write on the official account.

Stuart, I've been wondering for a while... Why did Michael used specifically Lemuel for his plan?
His plan of creating a concentration camp, 'accidentally discovering it' and sending a hurt angel and a defector to Earth is pure genius. But sending someone who has proved that he is a brilliant detective (like Lemuel) is just asking for problems. Couldn't he have used someone else? Im sure Heaven is full of stupid white knights, so why use Lemuel?

Brovane wrote:Thanks Stuart for the response. Given this reason, I am suprised that the decision was made to then nuke the army of light in Heaven. It seems the human conventional forces where well equipped to go after and destroy this army. I mean three well equipped army groups where been brought into Heaven. They seemed to have the situation much more in hand than when they faced Satan's armies in Hell. I know there was more concerns about the Eternal city. Was it pay back and revenge for Tel Aviv and everything else the Angels did to the humans? Was it the fact that with Putin as overall head that the Russians are less reluctant to go nuclear than the US? Do the Russians have the same feelings about going nuclear that the US has?

In-universe CGHEA Petraeus was granted release authority by the Yamantau Council for both military and political reasons -- militarily so that he would have an option to minimize casualties, and political because the Yamantau Council intended to use the lack of (many) casualties to stem the Second-Life "defections" from their nations to the New Roman Republic... the US had already lost Jade Kim, McElroy, and MaDeuce to Caesar. Petraeus' decision to use that authority against a large-enough body to put First-Lifers at risk* thus fit both the military and political rationales and objectives.

* I will note of course that Elhmas had sent a forward force as a "diversion" that had fought one of Caesar's legions, but it was unlikely that Petraeus would have forced it to take on the whole of the Incomparable Legion of Light. The nuclear option actually gave him a tad bit more plausible deniability about the whole "discriminating against Second-Lifers" thing... and a way to prevent that Second-Lifer military from having as much "war honors" to show off if protesting their treatment. (Strangely I'm thinking of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team here.)

#1, he's subverting the head of the "secret police," and could use that against Lemuel if needed, and #2, his planning style indicates that whether he's aware of any threat or not, he intends to make things so that ultimately Lemuel's anger at him doesn't matter, whether it's by "the Ozymandias argument" or not; he's already plotting to fuck Heaven up if Zacharael-lan is removed. (Reminds me of the news about outside aid for the Iraq insurgency supposedly coming from exiled Baathists.)

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Good chapter (Petraeus watch your ass up there, Mikey's a sneaky bastard); craptastic bitching from Ryan (even a five-post noob is telling you to stfu!). I smell barrel bait.

Don't worry, Petraeus already has basic personal security down pat... I wonder though whether Michael-lan realizes that his "absolute (public) submission" act isn't being bought, although in typical Michael-lan fashion, "it doesn't have to be, since that's what the mason is for."

Stuart wrote: If we can get the sales high enough, we might be able to sell the film rights as well. Although I suspect it would have to be done in two "volumes" like Kill Bill. The slash-review thing is interesting; I suspect people work on the basis that if somebody hates the book so much, it must have something going for it. Most of the slash-reviews are pretty pathetic. In the case of TSW though, the fundies and other nuts will be out in force so we ought to concentrate on good reviews to balance them out.

A Salvation War FILM? I don't think Hollywood has people capable of doing it justice.
Also, about the bad reviews, don't worry about them. They were bound to happen.
Everything has bad reviews, no matter the awesome. Besides, no such thing as bad publicity.

Stuart, don't turn this badass work of art into a cheap Hollywood flick! It deserves better than that, just stick with the book and the potential game deal. Regarding the negative reviews, just accept them, and unless they start outnumbering the good ones they aren't a problem.

Nah, I bet if Uwe Boll comes saying he wants to do the Salvation War movies, Stuart will promptly sock him.
Michael Bay may pass. But if he puts some romantic subplot somewhere (that isn't Lemuel with Maion's) Stuart will sock him. And the rest of SDNet behind him.

Nematocyst wrote:Nah, I bet if Uwe Boll comes saying he wants to do the Salvation War movies, Stuart will promptly sock him.
Michael Bay may pass. But if he puts some romantic subplot somewhere (that isn't Lemuel with Maion's) Stuart will sock him. And the rest of SDNet behind him.

There's a reason the molotov cocktail was invented.

Hey Stuart.

Hypothetically, If you get an offer from Hollywood. Take the money and run.
Don't look back.
You can always go Alan Smithee if you don't like the treatment.

Uncluttered wrote: 6. Free ebook
6a. Many publishers will do this already. But sometimes the author has to ask. If you have a trilogy, they'll give away the first book, knowing they've hooked you for the rest.

How about a few chapters for free?

Nematocyst wrote:Nah, I bet if Uwe Boll comes saying he wants to do the Salvation War movies, Stuart will promptly sock him.
Michael Bay may pass. But if he puts some romantic subplot somewhere (that isn't Lemuel with Maion's) Stuart will sock him. And the rest of SDNet behind him.

Better Uwe Boll than Tarantino

[R_H] wrote: Better Uwe Boll than Tarantino

Why don't we see if we can get Christopher Nolan in on this? *runs*

Ascaloth wrote: Well, we need as many slash reviews as we can get to make TSW a bestseller, and who better than someone like Ryan who would be actually motivated to write one? This is one troll I'd advocate we keep feeding, guys; we need him to come up with a cracker that'll send the sales of the dead-tree version soaring.

ITT Ascaloth doesn't understand convergent series!

(sorry, was unable to resist.)

[R_H] wrote:

Nematocyst wrote:Nah, I bet if Uwe Boll comes saying he wants to do the Salvation War movies, Stuart will promptly sock him.
Michael Bay may pass. But if he puts some romantic subplot somewhere (that isn't Lemuel with Maion's) Stuart will sock him. And the rest of SDNet behind him.

Better Uwe Boll than Tarantino

Tarantino made good movies. Uwe Boll, however...

Frankly Ryan, I fail to see how a collection of short stories by Larry Niven has anything to do with this. /sarcasm

(And yes Ryan, I do understand mathmatics)

...Azrael told Petraeus to buzz off?! Guy must have a death wish, smart-mouthing the man in command of Heaven for the time being. Man, he still actually believes he could have won this war. Typical Angel arrogance, though; he doesn't even bother hiding his plans.

Though Petraeus being there is... stupid. Stupid in the sense of "what if Azrael was violent enough and/or petty enough to just kill the human on the spot?" We'd have lost the HEA Supreme Commander and an excellent coordinator. Him talking to Michael was acceptable, because Mike knew that blowing away a human General would be taken for hostilities, at which point the humans would have just bombed the Eternal Temple to dust, which Mike and his posse still in it. Azrael is not quite so savvy, so he just might lash out at Petraeus in anger.

And Capt. Chewbacca... why do you keep saying Azrael's dead? I mean, Stuart had him right there at the bottom paragraph of the chapter.

And for the love of god, anyone but Boll. His (non-video game based) movies blow chunks. When you say "I'm ze only funking genius in ze whole fucking business", you need to have the skill, record, and cojones to back that up, and Boll... doesn't.

Ryan Thunder wrote: ITT Ascaloth doesn't understand convergent series!

(sorry, was unable to resist.)

Newsflash: Ryan Thunder attempts an argumentum ad hominem abusive to belittle a newbie who was being too "uppity" for his tastes. Nobody is really surprised.