StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Isn't the real problem the manufacture of ammunition, rather than the fabrication of the guns?

Darth Wong wrote:The problem is that the entire End Times prophecy has been shown to be a sham, so there's no reason to believe any of its details, including its description of the city.

It very well could be lies, but if that's the case we'd have to invent a city all on our own, instead of drawing on existing material, and where's the fun in that? It could be a sham city that's only a big empty shell, built to impress humans from the outside. Or, it could be that the very specific design, geometry, and materials serve to channel/harness/focus the worship energy at Yaweh's throne, which is in the center of the city.

Darth Wong wrote:Isn't the real problem the manufacture of ammunition, rather than the fabrication of the guns?

Soft lead and basic blackpowder, which can be corned with some alcohol and a cheesecloth from ingredients readily available in hell, so ammo would be fairly easily produced. We build the guns, and drop them to escapee and liberated groups with instructions on how to make the ammo.

Interesting, the Pope is still around. I'm assuming it's still Benedict, since if he had died when the message dropped by, they probably wouldn't bother to choose a new Pope.

I wonder what we humans will say if Dagon and Deumos give us Dis but Satan manages to fight his way out.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:It very well could be lies, but if that's the case we'd have to invent a city all on our own, instead of drawing on existing material, and where's the fun in that? It could be a sham city that's only a big empty shell, built to impress humans from the outside. Or, it could be that the very specific design, geometry, and materials serve to channel/harness/focus the worship energy at Yaweh's throne, which is in the center of the city.

The problem is that the city as described is downright laughable in its absurdity, especially the part about how it's made of pure gold, and its streets are also paved with pure gold. And how would it even have streets visible from outside, if it's constructed as a giant cube?

This cosmic cube would make much more sense as the dimensions of Heaven itself, rather than a physical city with a preposterous construction of pure gold.

Darth Wong wrote:The problem is that the city as described is downright laughable in its absurdity, especially the part about how it's made of pure gold, and its streets are also paved with pure gold. And how would it even have streets visible from outside, if it's constructed as a giant cube? This cosmic cube would make much more sense as the dimensions of Heaven itself, rather than a physical city with a preposterous construction of pure gold.

I agree, my working hypothesis is that the biblical description applies to the Heaven space-time bubble rather than just the city (very much the way people say "Jakarta" or "Beijing" when they mean Indonesia or China). Likewise "paved with gold" is a common colloquialism for "full of very rich people who treat everybody else like dirt" so I'm going with that as well - the city is big, thinly populated, full of fabulously exotic palaces etc.

The space-time bubbles aren't cubes, they're klein bottles which has several interesting properties. Heaven's for the next book though, it hasn't anything much to do with this volume.

Darth Wong wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:It very well could be lies, but if that's the case we'd have to invent a city all on our own, instead of drawing on existing material, and where's the fun in that? It could be a sham city that's only a big empty shell, built to impress humans from the outside. Or, it could be that the very specific design, geometry, and materials serve to channel/harness/focus the worship energy at Yaweh's throne, which is in the center of the city.

The problem is that the city as described is downright laughable in its absurdity, especially the part about how it's made of pure gold, and its streets are also paved with pure gold. And how would it even have streets visible from outside, if it's constructed as a giant cube?

This cosmic cube would make much more sense as the dimensions of Heaven itself, rather than a physical city with a preposterous construction of pure gold.

It could be mosaic over brick.

Stuart wrote:"To do this I call upon the Holy Catholic Church to excommunicate God.”

Crowning. Moment. Of fucking Awesome.

Stuart wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:The problem is that the city as described is downright laughable in its absurdity, especially the part about how it's made of pure gold, and its streets are also paved with pure gold. And how would it even have streets visible from outside, if it's constructed as a giant cube? This cosmic cube would make much more sense as the dimensions of Heaven itself, rather than a physical city with a preposterous construction of pure gold.

I agree, my working hypothesis is that the biblical description applies to the Heaven space-time bubble rather than just the city (very much the way people say "Jakarta" or "Beijing" when they mean Indonesia or China). Likewise "paved with gold" is a common colloquialism for "full of very rich people who treat everybody else like dirt" so I'm going with that as well - the city is big, thinly populated, full of fabulously exotic palaces etc.

The space-time bubbles aren't cubes, they're klein bottles which has several interesting properties. Heaven's for the next book though, it hasn't anything much to do with this volume.

Didn't the story mention that Dante had a surprisingly accurate vision of Hell? Does his description of Heaven in Paradiso bear any resemblances to the real Heaven in the story as well?

Oh, Stuart, I got access to the National Park Service assessments of the WWII-service destroyers, and this is what I found:

1. Two of the three surviving Fletchers are in good condition.
2. The third, USS Kidd, is in excellent condition.
3. USS Little Rock is in good condition.
4. USS Joseph P. Kennedy is in good condition.
5. Laffey and Salem are not suitable for consideration.

Of the two later preserved destroyers, Edson is a bouncy-ball and hasn't been properly maintained in some years, so she's the parts store (along with those still waiting disposition) for the Turner Joy. I have however discovered that the Barry is, instead of being a Gate Guard for the navy base, actually maintained in excellent condition by naval personnel at the navy yard. Therefore, I propose the following measures to be taken:

1. USS Barry be restored to full active service immediately along with USS Turner Joy, the other three surviving Forrest Sherman-class destroyers serving as the parts store.
2. USS Kidd be restored to service with the cannibalized parts of the other two surviving Fletcher-class ships, the remaining parts being used as a parts store.
3. USS Joseph P. Kennedy be restored to service with the parts of the other surviving Gearing-class destroyers and the two surviving (one US, one Taiwan) Allen M. Sumner-class destroyers.

That gives the USN a total of four steam destroyers either being restored or back in service with enough parts to keep them that way for a decade or so.

I'm not sure to what extent Salem and the battleships could provide parts for the Little Rock, so I'd assume she's not a go unless I hear back from the museum that her engines are in truly excellent condition?

Do you want me to look into the diesel submarines as well?

I'd assume that the older ships would generally be assigned heavily to hell as their heavier gun armaments make them more useful there.

What role would these ships be playing in hell? Assuming all goes well and the war is largely won in the next six months to a year, are we going to be deploying these things on extended 'anti kraken' runs? Are there deep enough rivers in hell to use them as riverine?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:What role would these ships be playing in hell? Assuming all goes well and the war is largely won in the next six months to a year, are we going to be deploying these things on extended 'anti kraken' runs? Are there deep enough rivers in hell to use them as riverine?

We need patrol ships. We've basically just added another fleet area there. Also what if Heaven attacks Earth and Hell simultaneously? We need enough ships to fight a war on both fronts. And 5in VT shrapnel will kill an angel just as reliably as the main gun on a tank. And we do indeed need anti-kraken work, since they could continue to attack us until hunted to extinction, and we need escorts for convoys in case they do attack, etc. The navy is going to be massively overstretched.

LadyTevar wrote:It could be mosaic over brick.

Or for all we know Heaven has a very high cosmic abundance of gold (or heavy elements in general) so it's actually is feasible to make cobblestones out of it. It's not as ridiculous as it sounds when you consider the fact that if Hell had the same cosmic element abundances as our universe it'd be mostly a big bag of hydrogen; it clearly has vastly higher percentages of heavy elements than our universe, as its composition seems to resemble that of a terrestrial planet.

Edit: something else just occurred to me while I was thinking along these lines. If Demons are allergic to iron, are we to presume they use something other than hemoglobin? I remember it saying earlier that they had different colors of blood.

This is getting better and better. I loved the excommunication of God because of his falseness!

Well, where is Uriel? He appeared 40 chapters ago; however, he has not been mention again. "Loose end" characters are very bothersome...

Well I hope to see more of your fic...

So where is Jesus in all this? It's gonna require even more theological wrangling among the Vatican if he's among the servants of Yahweh.
Or was his position in all this already discussed and I just missed it?

fusion wrote: Well, where is Uriel? He appeared 40 chapters ago; however, he has not been mention again. "Loose end" characters are very bothersome...

The more I wait for him to appear the worse death for him I imagine.

Junghalli wrote:

LadyTevar wrote:It could be mosaic over brick.

Or for all we know Heaven has a very high cosmic abundance of gold (or heavy elements in general) so it's actually is feasible to make cobblestones out of it. It's not as ridiculous as it sounds when you consider the fact that if Hell had the same cosmic element abundances as our universe it'd be mostly a big bag of hydrogen; it clearly has vastly higher percentages of heavy elements than our universe, as its composition seems to resemble that of a terrestrial planet.

Ok... I've pulled out the KJV.

Revelation 21:18-21 wrote:And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundationwas jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; and every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Pure Gold does not look like clear, transparent glass.
"Garnished" probably means the walls were decorated with the gems, not made of those. I'm not sure what a chalcedony, sardius, chrysolite, or a chrysoprasus are, gimme some time to research those online.

Anyone able to help here?

"Garnished" probably means the walls were decorated with the gems, not made of those. I'm not sure what a chalcedony, sardius, chrysolite, or a chrysoprasus are, gimme some time to research those online.

Chalcedony is a very shimmery quartz crystal.

Chrysolite is olivine, in very pale green color.

Sardius, or Sardonyx, is simply Onyx.

Chrysoprasus is gem-quality Chalcendony.

Keep in mind, though, that these gem names are only a 'best guess' at what the original author meant, because in that day gemstone names varied greatly by region, and two stones with identical chemcial formulae could appear very different and be deemed different gems.

"Gold like unto clear glass" could mean it's polished until you can see your reflection in it. Or they might just have a lot of buildings made of gold-tinted glass.

I actually rather like the idea of Heaven as a world with tons of naturally occuring crystals lying around.

Junghalli wrote:

LadyTevar wrote:It could be mosaic over brick.

Or for all we know Heaven has a very high cosmic abundance of gold (or heavy elements in general) so it's actually is feasible to make cobblestones out of it. It's not as ridiculous as it sounds when you consider the fact that if Hell had the same cosmic element abundances as our universe it'd be mostly a big bag of hydrogen; it clearly has vastly higher percentages of heavy elements than our universe, as its composition seems to resemble that of a terrestrial planet.

Edit: something else just occurred to me while I was thinking along these lines. If Demons are allergic to iron, are we to presume they use something other than hemoglobin? I remember it saying earlier that they had different colors of blood.

The problem with the city of pure gold is not the abundance of gold. It is the fact that gold is both dense and soft, thus making it one of the worst imaginable structural materials.

Junghalli wrote:I actually rather like the idea of Heaven as a world with tons of naturally occuring crystals lying around.

Does that mean they're from Krypton? That explains a lot, Jor-El didn't want us knowing his real name so he started going by Yahweh...

Peptuck wrote:

Stuart wrote:"To do this I call upon the Holy Catholic Church to excommunicate God.”

Crowning. Moment. Of fucking Awesome.

Damn You, Peptuck! These were going to be my words as well! Give me back my words, you THIEF!!!

Junghalli wrote:Edit: something else just occurred to me while I was thinking along these lines. If Demons are allergic to iron, are we to presume they use something other than hemoglobin? I remember it saying earlier that they had different colors of blood.

To be different colors, the blood of demons would have to have different pigments floating in their blood. However, I must note that the pigments need not be biologically relevant. We have different eye colors (not nearly as varied), but they do not cause any significant metabolic differences. The different colors in demon blood would then come about through different percentages of each pigment.

I find it unlikely that hemoglobin would go out of style that quickly, evolutionarily speaking. Aerobic resperation being a difficult legacy to shake off, you would have to find an oxygen carrying molecule, and hemoglobin works.

As to the iron issue, remember that iron is not its oxides, so you can have nasty reactions to the metal, but not to the heme groups in your blood, or the hematite you have to absorb to maintain the heme groups.

(Of course, this is my limited knowledge of biochemistry talking.)

Could it be possible that Yahweh is using some sort of 'magic' (for the want of a better term on my part) trick to make gold into a structurally acceptable building material?

Pelranius wrote:Could it be possible that Yahweh is using some sort of 'magic' (for the want of a better term on my part) trick to make gold into a structurally acceptable building material?

The gold can be a facade for a real structure, yes.

It could also be fool's gold, a much better building material. (Then again, just about any material would qualify!)

I love that Strawberry Bitch made an appearance, if in name only. [REDACTED] Oh and Stuart - your silence regarding when I asked about if a certain project would show up is driving me crazy!