Armageddon???? - Part Eighty One Up

Zim · Post by **Zim** » 2008-05-20 02:58pm

Before it was stated there were around half a dozen Russian divisions entrenched in the beach head, are there any other forces there with them? I imagine the Anglo forces already stationed in Iraq would've already made the transition but what about any Israeli or European armored divisions?

The Vortex Empire · Post by **The Vortex Empire** » 2008-05-20 03:09pm

Gaius Julius Caesar?! Hell yeah!

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2008-05-20 03:12pm

Stuart wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote: Indeed, I rather suspect that other powers will want to see, and would demand, a joint approach to matters, more akin to WW2.
The problem is that the whole war is being put together on the fly; basically everybody is making it up as they go along. (There isn't, by the way, a contingency plan in the Pentagon to invade Hell). However, the United States has a big advantage in the "put the command structure together as we go along " game because it already has most of the equipment in place - so the command structure as it evolves tends to reflect American practices simply because it uses available American kit.

Oh, I think that is to be expected.

However, having said that, the old idea of an alliance with committes and liaison and so on is really a facet of the past. Today, we don't need to do that sort of thing because our communications gear is so good that we can have high level meetings at the drop of a hat. After all, what point is there in assigning a representative to reflect British views when modern kit means that the British Prime Minister can electronically sit in on a White House Cabinet meeting - and so can the various field commanders.

For ad hoc situations that's fine, and most recent wars seem to utilise existing US systems, but you still need a proper system in place for a long war that will involve multiple nations, and their economies, and vast armies not seen since WW2.

Militarily, some sort of joint command system has to be set up fairly promptly; at the moment its running of the basis of the armies being thrown together (by the way, that's why Petraeus got his fifth star, its US Policy to make sure our officer commanding outranks everybody else's officer commanding.)

Ad Hoc is ok, temporarily, and the nation with the most gets to command, but I am sure that China, Russia will produce their five star generals and the Brits will no doubt put someone up to Field Marshall. I am sure that some one will eventually point out to the politicians (suits and uniforms)that appendage size is pointless, ability is better.

For all that, yes, you're quite right, eventually things will have to be properly organized rather than the existing jury-rigged set-up. But, the armies are still at the "trying to work out what is going on" and "pull the equipment out of storage and museums" modes. Also, the major units are small enough in number right now for a simple communications set-up to work. That;s not going to last forever. It certainly won;t be good enough for the invasion of Heaven.

Yep.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-05-20 03:35pm

The problem is that the whole war is being put together on the fly; basically everybody is making it up as they go along. (There isn't, by the way, a contingency plan in the Pentagon to invade Hell).

Oh, I bet there will be soon. Not to mention Heaven. Is that sort of stuff being worked on by DIMO(n) as well? Norman probably studied demons AND angels pretty thoroughly.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-05-20 03:40pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
The problem is that the whole war is being put together on the fly; basically everybody is making it up as they go along. (There isn't, by the way, a contingency plan in the Pentagon to invade Hell).
Oh, I bet there will be soon. Not to mention Heaven. Is that sort of stuff being worked on by DIMO(n) as well? Norman probably studied demons AND angels pretty thoroughly.

Stuart is referring to the contingency plans drawn up by the Pentagon during peacetime, which can be pulled out and put into action if need be. The Pentagon obviously had no contingency plan in place for this possibility. Their plan for invading Hell now is not a contingency plan; it's just a plan.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-05-20 03:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:
The problem is that the whole war is being put together on the fly; basically everybody is making it up as they go along. (There isn't, by the way, a contingency plan in the Pentagon to invade Hell).
Oh, I bet there will be soon. Not to mention Heaven. Is that sort of stuff being worked on by DIMO(n) as well? Norman probably studied demons AND angels pretty thoroughly.
Stuart is referring to the contingency plans drawn up by the Pentagon during peacetime, which can be pulled out and put into action if need be. The Pentagon obviously had no contingency plan in place for this possibility. Their plan for invading Hell now is not a contingency plan; it's just a plan.

I know. I remember the jokes about how the Pentagon has a plan for invading everyone, including Missouri and the Vatican. I find it hard to believe nobody ever tried to make one for hell, though.

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » 2008-05-20 04:02pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I know. I remember the jokes about how the Pentagon has a plan for invading everyone, including Missouri and the Vatican.

They're jokes? I know the Vatican one exists.

I find it hard to believe nobody ever tried to make one for hell, though.

I found it hard to believe as well but there isn't one. I was sure there would be at least something.

gtg947h · Post by **gtg947h** » 2008-05-20 04:06pm

Stuart wrote: It certainly won't be good enough for the invasion of Heaven.

I've been thinking about that one lately... my understanding is that Heaven doesn't have the suspended dust particle problem that Hell does--if so, aircraft will certainly operate better when at altitude, and be more useful. However, it seems to have a lot of crystalline minerals... and I'm guessing any resulting dust is harder (and more abrasive) than sand or Hell-dust. I'm envisioning treads getting worn out a lot faster, and intricate machinery getting real torn up.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-05-20 04:14pm

gtg947h wrote:
Stuart wrote: It certainly won't be good enough for the invasion of Heaven.
I've been thinking about that one lately... my understanding is that Heaven doesn't have the suspended dust particle problem that Hell does--if so, aircraft will certainly operate better when at altitude, and be more useful. However, it seems to have a lot of crystalline minerals... and I'm guessing any resulting dust is harder (and more abrasive) than sand or Hell-dust. I'm envisioning treads getting worn out a lot faster, and intricate machinery getting real torn up.

Without an active mechanism for hurling that material far into the air, it won't pose a problem for aircraft. Hell has such a mechanism: a giant 700km wide super-caldera. In the absence of such a mechanism, any such particles would settle to the ground.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-05-20 04:31pm

Stuart wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:I know. I remember the jokes about how the Pentagon has a plan for invading everyone, including Missouri and the Vatican.
They're jokes? I know the Vatican one exists.

I think they're jokes by people who wish/hope it weren't the case. Can you tell us how many troops the Pentagon thinks it would take to occupy vatican city, or is that classified?

I found it hard to believe as well but there isn't one. I was sure there would be at least something.

So, what's the oddest plan you've ever seen that you can tell us about? Are there scenarios in place for military operations against an orbiting space station? A lunar installation? Mars?

gtg947h · Post by **gtg947h** » 2008-05-20 04:57pm

I remember reading the US plan for invading Canada for a time frame (IIRC) somewhere between WW I and II. Some parts of it were quite interesting... have to see if I can dig it up when I get home.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-05-20 04:57pm

*chants*
Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, Caesar!
(pronounced Kaisar, btw)

I like how Beezlebub is being careful and logical about things. Smart demons are cool.

I've been thinking about the subject of people in Hell. Why wouldn't they age? After all, demons do. I think it would make more sense if people aged very slowly. So if a kid in Hell would reach adulthood eventually, it would just take several centuries. Alternatively, if you want to go with the idea of what you look like in Hell is directly related to your self-image, a sufficiently mature (due to being alive for so dammed long) child might be able to "will" himself into an older body.

bilateralrope · Post by **bilateralrope** » 2008-05-20 06:26pm

And Belial is sending us 80 Wvverns that he has trained to attack forces on the ground. We will see how the humans cope with fire from the sky.

I wonder who will be dropping fire first, the humans or the Wyverns ?

Of course, the humans will be doing a lot more damage, even if the demons weren't all bunched up.

Karrick · Post by **Karrick** » 2008-05-20 06:42pm

I'm surprised Pullo and Vorenus haven't conquered Hell already with that ridiculous luck they seem to have. I can just see them linking up with an SAS team or getting some modern kit and kicking ass. Keep the spice flowing, Stuart.

How many troops could you possibly fit in the Vatican City anyway?

Vehrec · Post by **Vehrec** » 2008-05-20 06:47pm

How many troops could you possibly fit in the Vatican City anyway?

Probably a couple divisions, which you would need in order to keep it secure against the Catholic onslaught of militia.

In other news, you have to wonder, will the Russians just leave the tanks where they are, or will they redeploy them, given that the Baldericks are apparently planning to march right through the middle of their Arty park? Beelzebub seems to be expecting the rear of the Russian formation to be empty, but we know that's just where the real pain is nesting.

The Vortex Empire · Post by **The Vortex Empire** » 2008-05-20 06:52pm

I almost feel sorry for the Baldricks. With that much Artillery against them, they're walking right into a meat grinder.

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2008-05-20 07:23pm

The Vortex Empire wrote:I almost feel sorry for the Baldricks. With that much Artillery against them, they're walking right into a meat grinder.

True, but with 3.25 million troops, they have plenty of meat to spare.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2008-05-20 08:24pm

Lets see........ three point two million troops; attacking a bulge.......held by Russian troops.

So when does some enterprising wag on Petraeus' Staff tag it as Operation Zitadelle (unofficially)?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2008-05-20 08:28pm

Ad Hoc is ok, temporarily, and the nation with the most gets to command, but I am sure that China, Russia will produce their five star generals and the Brits will no doubt put someone up to Field Marshall. I am sure that some one will eventually point out to the politicians (suits and uniforms)that appendage size is pointless, ability is better.

We have that planned out.

General of the Armies of the United States; a six star rank.

Link

Speaking of that. We need to send a Ranger expedition into hell to find George Washington, free him, and give him his Six Star Rank.

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2008-05-20 08:38pm

Very Good! This story is coming along...

Cannot wait for the twenty chapter war and aftermath section!

Fyrwulf · Post by **Fyrwulf** » 2008-05-20 08:59pm

MKSheppard wrote:Speaking of that. We need to send a Ranger expedition into hell to find George Washington, free him, and give him his Six Star Rank.

Couldn't agree more. However, he's going to be a bit surprised the first time a 5-star salutes him, since he was only ever a 3-star and didn't think a higher rank appropriate. I also don't think anyone is going to dare try to upstage America on this, not that they could since Washington has technically been a 6-star general since July 4, 1976 (time in grade and all that.)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-05-20 09:28pm

It would be good to dig up deceased soldiers for infiltration work. Deceased humans in Hell have supernatural resilience and an absurd healing rate: even faster than that of the demons. If the baldricks didn't keep them permanently suppressed and tortured, humans would have taken over the place easily by now.

PS. From the latest chapter, I wonder if Yahweh's plan with The Message was to unleash the hordes of Hell onto humanity in the hopes that humanity would be utterly devastated, and crying out for "salvation" from above. At which point he would have a magnaminous change of heart and intervene, thus defeating the weakened Satan and cementing his hold on humanity. After all, he's done this bipolar wrath/forgiveness thing before, around two thousand years ago. Win/win for Yahweh, lose/lose for everyone else.

gtg947h · Post by **gtg947h** » 2008-05-20 09:37pm

MKSheppard wrote:Speaking of that. We need to send a Ranger expedition into hell to find George Washington, free him, and give him his Six Star Rank.

I've been hoping for that since early on...

The Vortex Empire · Post by **The Vortex Empire** » 2008-05-20 09:58pm

gtg947h wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Speaking of that. We need to send a Ranger expedition into hell to find George Washington, free him, and give him his Six Star Rank.
I've been hoping for that since early on...

He wouldn't be of much use. Revolutionary War tactics don't help on the modern battlefield. He'd have no idea how to use modern a military.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-05-20 10:05pm

It's not as if Washington was a fantastic general anyway, as opposed to being a merely competent one.