Catholic Church Not At Fault (split from Garbage thead)

OT: anything goes!

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Durandal
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Post by Durandal » 2002-07-13 10:55pm

As someone who attended Catholic school in the United States, I can tell you that I was never given basic information on birth control in high school. That was in grade school. High school was all about abstinence and how condoms weren't an option.

Basically, they taught everyone about sex when most were still in 6th grade and were giggling about the subject. They snuck condoms in there to meet state requirements, but that's it. In high school, they demonized birth control and basically said, "If you have sex before marriage, fuck you."
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Post by David » 2002-07-13 11:08pm

Durandal wrote:As someone who attended Catholic school in the United States, I can tell you that I was never given basic information on birth control in high school. That was in grade school. High school was all about abstinence and how condoms weren't an option.

Basically, they taught everyone about sex when most were still in 6th grade and were giggling about the subject. They snuck condoms in there to meet state requirements, but that's it. In high school, they demonized birth control and basically said, "If you have sex before marriage, fuck you."


I doubt that anyone in America doesn't know about condoms. Every girl I've ever met who had a kid she didn't want was because her boyfriend didn't want to use one.

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Post by Skelron » 2002-07-13 11:11pm

England had a very clever Cardinal... a real shame he died, he knew When to toe the line with the Vatican, was loyal when it mattered, which allowed him to be liberal in many other areas. (England has one of the most liberal outlooks in the Catholic faith) so I admit my experiances with school may not be the same as other's.

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Post by Publius » 2002-07-13 11:52pm

If the Roman Catholic Church had the supposed influence because of the number of members and the potential wealth of the institution itself, one could hardly expect to find abortion to be legal, would one? Or euthanasia?

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Post by Pablo Sanchez » 2002-07-14 12:13am

Publius wrote:If the Roman Catholic Church had the supposed influence because of the number of members and the potential wealth of the institution itself, one could hardly expect to find abortion to be legal, would one? Or euthanasia?
You're apparently forgetting the fact that Abortion Rights and euthenasia are under constant, unrelenting assault by a laundry list of organizations and special interests. I guess you don't read the paper or watch the news.

Fortunately for me, the US Government is the world's Cowboy--they do what they want, when they want it. Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but the USA is a little bit stronger and more capable than Zimbabwe, hence it's ability to ignore the clamorings of the Pontif.
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Post by MKSheppard » 2002-07-14 12:49am

Pablo Sanchez wrote: You're apparently forgetting the fact that Abortion Rights and euthenasia are under constant, unrelenting assault by a laundry list of organizations and special interests. I guess you don't read the paper or watch the news.
heheh, the Holy See is allied with Islamic countries to beat back this
foul tide of liberalism. If you don't want fucking kids, don't fucking
STICK IT IN.

Is that so damn hard for someone to do?

And let's not forget the fondness of Planned Parenthood's founder,
Margaret Sanger, towards Nazi eugenics programmes.

Besides, Africa is no great loss.

I mean, come on, what do a bunch of morons who go around raping
babies because they believe deflowering a virgin will save them from
AIDS have to contribute to society?

[EDIT] And if I had a Big Red Button (TM) that would cause every single
abortionist in the United States to die a horrible death the moment
I pushed the button, I'd push it repeatedly over and over for that
older brother I never had.
Last edited by MKSheppard on 2002-07-14 12:56am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by David » 2002-07-14 12:52am

Don't forget they circumsize their girls and then sow them up so they remain virgins.

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Post by Durandal » 2002-07-14 01:18am

And Sheppard, once again, demonstrates everything that is wrong with the Southern Bible Belt.
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Post by MKSheppard » 2002-07-14 01:30am

Durandal wrote:And Sheppard, once again, demonstrates everything that is wrong with the Southern Bible Belt.
That's really funny, considering I don't even OWN a bible, or that I'm
from a border state...
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Post by David » 2002-07-14 08:55am

Ahh, assumtions, gotta love'm

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Post by Pablo Sanchez » 2002-07-14 12:24pm

MKSheppard wrote:heheh, the Holy See is allied with Islamic countries to beat back this foul tide of liberalism. If you don't want fucking kids, don't fucking STICK IT IN.
Well, nobody really wants people to have abortions (except some radicalists). It's just that people on my side of the issue don't think the Government should tell women what to do with their bodies.
Is that so damn hard for someone to do?
Well, Shep, you're forgetting that some people are stupid.
Besides, Africa is no great loss.

I mean, come on, what do a bunch of morons who go around raping
babies because they believe deflowering a virgin will save them from
AIDS have to contribute to society?
Concievably they would become contributing people of the world at such a time as they are educated. Remember that up through 1800, the USA was a pissant backwater whose only contribution to the world was tobacco. Now look at it.
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Post by His Divine Shadow » 2002-07-14 01:09pm

This is not complicated really, the catholic church is preventing vital information about safe sex, because they feel they have the right to tell people what to do.
They don't, so they shouldn't.
Easy as cake.

And yes, it's cake, not pie.
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Post by Meghel » 2002-07-15 04:35am

As stated again and again;
- just how big is the inluence of the Catholic Church? Do you think that they are the only group having converts in Africa? And how many of these people in Africa listen to the Catholic Church anyway.

And;
- The biggest reason why AIDS/HIV is spreading so fast is because a lot of the people at the African Continent just "stick it in".

If there was a lot less use of hookers and a lot more marital loyalty, there would not be an AIDS/HIV epidemic :x

They should stop "Fucking Around" and practice some constraint;
- No multiple sexual partners = Smaller change of AIDS/HIV. 8)


Ok, so the Catholic Church is wrong in preventing the use of anti-conception materials.
But the fact that anti-religious nutcakes try to blame the Catholic Church for millions of deaths is pathetic. :roll:

With regards,

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Post by Darth Wong » 2002-07-15 12:49pm

Meghel wrote:As stated again and again;
- just how big is the inluence of the Catholic Church? Do you think that they are the only group having converts in Africa? And how many of these people in Africa listen to the Catholic Church anyway.
A hell of a lot more people than listen to you or I. I can rant on my website all day about the importance of sex ed (and I have), but I'm not going to have an impact. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, has the power to save millions of lives, and they choose not to.

To stand idly by while someone is dying and to do nothing even when it is within your power to save that life (eg- calling 911 when you see a mauling victim bleeding to death in the hall) is simply criminal. Why is the Catholic Church not held to this standard? Oh yes, I forgot; "religious beliefs" are an all-encompassing shield to avoid responsibility.
They should stop "Fucking Around" and practice some constraint;
- No multiple sexual partners = Smaller change of AIDS/HIV. 8)
Red herring. If you can save someone and you think your religious beliefs are more important than that person's life so you take no action, you're an asshole. That is my problem with the Catholic Church.
Ok, so the Catholic Church is wrong in preventing the use of anti-conception materials. But the fact that anti-religious nutcakes try to blame the Catholic Church for millions of deaths is pathetic. :roll:
I love the way you make this statement without a shred of supporting logic. Proof through strength of conviction?
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Post by David » 2002-07-15 05:17pm

I can rant on my website all day

Tell us about it :roll:

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Post by Meghel » 2002-07-16 04:49am

Red herring. If you can save someone and you think your religious beliefs are more important than that person's life so you take no action, you're an asshole. That is my problem with the Catholic Church.
I concede.
I love the way you make this statement without a shred of supporting logic. Proof through strength of conviction?
Which one you mean, the statement of blaming it for millions of deaths or the blame that those saying that are anti-religious nutcakes?

Ok, I concede that the Anti-Religious Nutcakes remark was a bad statement. Happy? :?:

But saying that they are directly responsible for millions of deaths is not. It might be a red herring (for they can influence, etc) but there are some posts in this thread blaming the catholic church directly for millions of dead, which is as of yet unjust.
Just as you, I must ask for supporting logics of this. 8)


Ouch, I am being struck by the Fury of Darth Wong. :shock:
Hmm, I feel pity to those others cut to size by MW. I know how they feel.

Excellent discussion, Mike. Thank you for convincing me. :wink:

With regards,

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Post by Darth Wong » 2002-07-16 12:30pm

Meghel wrote:I concede.
Good! You've taken your first step into a larger world :)
Ok, I concede that the Anti-Religious Nutcakes remark was a bad statement. Happy? :?:

But saying that they are directly responsible for millions of deaths is not. It might be a red herring (for they can influence, etc) but there are some posts in this thread blaming the catholic church directly for millions of dead, which is as of yet unjust.

Just as you, I must ask for supporting logics of this. 8)
That's simple. They are responsible through deliberate negligence. I think you are confusing "responsible" with "solely responsible". Are they the only cause of this horrible tragedy? Of course not. But are they one of the principal causes? Absolutely.

In our society, if you are grossly negligent and cause a death, you will be held responsible. If it can be determined that this negligence was intentional despite full knowledge of the consequences, then it is much more serious, and you can face criminal charges. I am merely holding the Catholic Church to the same standard.
Ouch, I am being struck by the Fury of Darth Wong. :shock:
Hmm, I feel pity to those others cut to size by MW. I know how they feel.
Hey, it's not that bad; I didn't even insult you yet! :)
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

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Post by David » 2002-07-16 12:47pm

What Wong said:

Darth Wong wrote:
Meghel wrote:I concede.
Good! You've taken your first step into a larger world :)
Ok, I concede that the Anti-Religious Nutcakes remark was a bad statement. Happy? :?:

But saying that they are directly responsible for millions of deaths is not. It might be a red herring (for they can influence, etc) but there are some posts in this thread blaming the catholic church directly for millions of dead, which is as of yet unjust.

Just as you, I must ask for supporting logics of this. 8)
That's simple. They are responsible through deliberate negligence. I think you are confusing "responsible" with "solely responsible". Are they the only cause of this horrible tragedy? Of course not. But are they one of the principal causes? Absolutely.

In our society, if you are grossly negligent and cause a death, you will be held responsible. If it can be determined that this negligence was intentional despite full knowledge of the consequences, then it is much more serious, and you can face criminal charges. I am merely holding the Catholic Church to the same standard.
Ouch, I am being struck by the Fury of Darth Wong. :shock:
Hmm, I feel pity to those others cut to size by MW. I know how they feel.
Hey, it's not that bad; I didn't even insult you yet! :)


What we heard:


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