Unionized civil service parasites!

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Darth Wong
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Unionized civil service parasites!

Post by Darth Wong » 2002-07-11 10:23pm

News: the garbage collectors are on strike here in Toronto. Not surprising, you say? Listen to this:

A unionized Toronto garbage collector is paid $54,000/yr. He receives full dental and medical coverage, along with generous holiday allowances and paid sick days. He also received a full pension, and after ten years, he receives guaranteed job security for life.

But this isn't enough for these worthless parasitic leeches. No, they want more! They insist that even junior workers receive job security for life, even though none of them should have it. Job security for life is a ridiculous concept. The people who demand it are invariably the people who least deserve it.

They also believe they're underpaid. Goddamned $54,000/yr garbage collectors think they're underpaid! The problem with politicians nowadays is that none of them have the cojones to piss anybody off, no matter how much they deserve it. We need somebody to pull a Reagan Maneuver on them.

Better yet, we need somebody to throw their asses in jail. Not only are they refusing to do their jobs, but they're also picketing the local dumps and abusing/delaying people who are trying to drop off their trash themselves! This is where a ruthless Empire would come in handy ... :)
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Re: Unionized civil service parasites!

Post by Dillon » 2002-07-11 10:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:News: the garbage collectors are on strike here in Toronto. Not surprising, you say? Listen to this:

A unionized Toronto garbage collector is paid $54,000/yr. He receives full dental and medical coverage, along with generous holiday allowances and paid sick days. He also received a full pension, and after ten years, he receives guaranteed job security for life.

But this isn't enough for these worthless parasitic leeches. No, they want more! They insist that even junior workers receive job security for life, even though none of them should have it. Job security for life is a ridiculous concept. The people who demand it are invariably the people who least deserve it.

They also believe they're underpaid. Goddamned $54,000/yr garbage collectors think they're underpaid! The problem with politicians nowadays is that none of them have the cojones to piss anybody off, no matter how much they deserve it. We need somebody to pull a Reagan Maneuver on them.

Better yet, we need somebody to throw their asses in jail. Not only are they refusing to do their jobs, but they're also picketing the local dumps and abusing/delaying people who are trying to drop off their trash themselves! This is where a ruthless Empire would come in handy ... :)
Shit, I remember reading about that in the papers in the last few days, they didn't include the part about them blocking people from dumping garbage themselves though. When I read about it at first, I was just thinking, for once I'm glad to live in Montreal :P

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Post by Mr Bean » 2002-07-11 10:38pm

I'll put it this way

If they go on strike you Fu#$^#ed arn't you? :)

At least we don't see Heart Surgons doing this :D

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Post by Skelron » 2002-07-11 10:40pm

For a start many of those demand's are likely to be nothing more than terms added so that they can be 'Sacrificeed' in the negotiations. Now I have no idea how much the pay works out too in British currency, but I have to ask, whats so bad about wanting a pay rise? If you don't get one your real pay would go down... and if they want to stay above the rate of inflation it seems resonable, I imagine most people here would demand a pay rise that is above the rate of inflation... you want a real pay rise. It's my experiance that people working in the public sector get screwed over every year, and it's just possible that they have had enough.

Now as for Job Security for life, as a concept I don't see what's so wrong with it, It would sure be better than the alternatives. I'm not sure what a reagan manouver is but I imagine it's something similar to a Thatcher policy, one that many regions in this country still pay the price for her belief that inequality, and poverty where in fact good things. So I'd be very cautious about what you support, it can have draw backs you don't realise.

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Post by Pablo Sanchez » 2002-07-11 10:41pm

$54,000 a year? I assume that's Canadian dollars, which places it around $40,000 American, which is still a princely wage for a garbage collector. And they want more? I don't know if unskilled labor like that deserves more.
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Post by Enlightenment » 2002-07-11 10:50pm

Keep in mind that the garbage collectors are under the same contract as the rest of the city's outside workers. The union's job security complaints seem to be aimed at the raw-deal treatment of workers in other departments (parks, for one) rather than just specifically at the treatment of the garbage collectors. The GCs wern't on strike specifically, they're just part of the same collective bargining process.

(I'm using part tense here because the provincial government legislated everyone back to work earlier today.)
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Post by Mr Bean » 2002-07-11 11:11pm

I belive its 1.3 Dollers for the British Pound and .78 Cents for a Candian Doller(From US Doller Prespective)

I"ll find the currant excange rates in the morning

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Post by Dillon » 2002-07-11 11:22pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:$54,000 a year? I assume that's Canadian dollars, which places it around $40,000 American, which is still a princely wage for a garbage collector. And they want more? I don't know if unskilled labor like that deserves more.
It sure as hell doesn't. I heard that they had to slap a college course onto becoming a garbage man (I never bothered to verify if it was true though, and it may only apply to my city), because a lot of people were going into that because of the unusually high pay for the manual labour.

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Post by Carcharodon » 2002-07-11 11:41pm

observer_20000 wrote:It sure as hell doesn't. I heard that they had to slap a college course onto becoming a garbage man (I never bothered to verify if it was true though, and it may only apply to my city), because a lot of people were going into that because of the unusually high pay for the manual labour.
That's what they're doing down here in this part of Texas, I think. At any rate, it seems to be the law with regard to supervisory positions. Of course, it's all funded with tax dollars.

And some people thought baseball strikes were bad.

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Post by Doomriser » 2002-07-11 11:45pm

http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-07-11-0006.html

"If they want to drag it out, it could easily be two weeks plus," Stockwell said.

If that's the case, Toronto's trash will still be strewn along city sidewalks and piled in parks during the papal visit later this month. :twisted:

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Post by Darth Wong » 2002-07-11 11:50pm

Doomriser wrote:http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-07-11-0006.html

"If they want to drag it out, it could easily be two weeks plus," Stockwell said.

If that's the case, Toronto's trash will still be strewn along city sidewalks and piled in parks during the papal visit later this month. :twisted:
Oooh, can we hurl garbage bags at him?
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Post by Enlightenment » 2002-07-11 11:52pm

Doomriser wrote:If that's the case, Toronto's trash will still be strewn along city sidewalks and piled in parks during the papal visit later this month. :twisted:
And this is a problem, why?
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Post by David » 2002-07-11 11:57pm

Canadians can always do what America did to air traffic controllers when they went on strike and refused to settle. Fire them all.

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Post by Doomriser » 2002-07-12 12:05am

Enlightenment wrote:
Doomriser wrote:If that's the case, Toronto's trash will still be strewn along city sidewalks and piled in parks during the papal visit later this month. :twisted:
And this is a problem, why?
When did I say it was a problem? Note the smiling devil face... :twisted:

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Post by Doomriser » 2002-07-12 12:07am

Mr Bean wrote:I belive its 1.3 Dollers for the British Pound and .78 Cents for a Candian Doller(From US Doller Prespective)

I"ll find the currant excange rates in the morning
Yah, maybe 20 years ago. Check those rates in the morning. IIRC its more like 63-5 cents to the American dollar, thanks to our spineless politicians.

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Post by Darth Wong » 2002-07-12 01:09am

Skelron wrote:For a start many of those demand's are likely to be nothing more than terms added so that they can be 'Sacrificeed' in the negotiations. Now I have no idea how much the pay works out too in British currency, but I have to ask, whats so bad about wanting a pay rise?
Nothing, unless your pay is already stratospheric in light of the mindless nature of the job, and it would be 30% lower if not for extortion tactics.
I imagine most people here would demand a pay rise that is above the rate of inflation... you want a real pay rise.
What if you don't deserve one? What if you use extortion to get one anyway? What if a private company could do the job for 30% less?
It's my experiance that people working in the public sector get screwed over every year, and it's just possible that they have had enough.
Not in my public sector. They're overpaid and underworked. They tell you that's not true, but I spent a year working for a Crown corporation, and it is absolutely true. They simply have no frame of reference apart from their own situation, so they believe it's hard.
Now as for Job Security for life, as a concept I don't see what's so wrong with it, It would sure be better than the alternatives.
What? Job security for life is a horrible concept! What incentive do you have to do a good job? They tried job security for life in the Soviet Union, remember? What effect did it have on productivity?
I'm not sure what a reagan manouver is but I imagine it's something similar to a Thatcher policy, one that many regions in this country still pay the price for her belief that inequality, and poverty where in fact good things.
The Reagan Maneuver was the ultimate Smack-Down(TM). He went on national TV during the ATC strike and said "you're all fired". It was awe-inspiring.
So I'd be very cautious about what you support, it can have draw backs you don't realise.
Actually, I live in the only borough in Toronto which privatized garbage collection, so our streets are clean and we are unaffected by the strike. There is no drawback so far. They should fire the fuckers. Let 'em look for another job which will pay a mindless labourer $54,000/yr with full benefits and a pension.

If they wanted job security, they should have gotten job skills.
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Post by David » 2002-07-12 01:19am

Reagan Manuvere? So that's what it is called.

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Post by Pablo Sanchez » 2002-07-12 09:34am

Darth Wong wrote:The Reagan Maneuver was the ultimate Smack-Down(TM). He went on national TV during the ATC strike and said "you're all fired". It was awe-inspiring.
He fired a torpedo straight into his relations with Labor and sank them to Hell, but he certainly showed them who was boss.
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Post by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi » 2002-07-12 09:51am

David wrote:Canadians can always do what America did to air traffic controllers when they went on strike and refused to settle. Fire them all.
After they were fired, they were replaced with Military personnel for the time being. Just think what would happen in Toronto if the same happened.

Anyway, I think the baseball players going on strike are even more spoiled. They make more money for one game than what some people make in a year! Even after they've paid for their steroids, they still have enough money to live like kings.
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn » 2002-07-12 11:00am

54 000? For Garbage collecters? Underpayed? WTF?
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Post by phongn » 2002-07-12 11:18am

XE.com does currency conversion - 54000 CAD ~=35300 USD. That's quite a bit for a garbage driver, especially with typical government benefits (I'm assuming that the Canadian ones are similar to American ones).

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Post by phongn » 2002-07-12 11:21am

Darth Wong wrote:
Now as for Job Security for life, as a concept I don't see what's so wrong with it, It would sure be better than the alternatives.
What? Job security for life is a horrible concept! What incentive do you have to do a good job? They tried job security for life in the Soviet Union, remember? What effect did it have on productivity?
In the United States, many of the large corporations tried it awhile ago - and it simply didn't work well. Far too much dead weight occured, "lifers" not really doing anything. GM still has a problem with that with a huge expense for benefits.

Japan faces the same problem, though Nissan cleaned up shop after they were acquired by Renault.

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Post by Pablo Sanchez » 2002-07-12 11:41am

phongn wrote:
Japan faces the same problem, though Nissan cleaned up shop after they were acquired by Renault.
If I was guarenteed my job, I wouldn't give a shit either. I'd just go through the motions until retirement.
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Post by TrailerParkJawa » 2002-07-12 11:52am

I personally dont mind if a garbage collector is making 54,000 yr if the streets are clean and they do a good job. BUT, I do find the idea of striking for life time employment to be insulting. What an unworkable concept. When I was a kid garbage trucks had crews of 3. The truck would stop every few houses and the guys would fan out and pick up the cans from the back yards by hand.

Now, the trucks have 1 driver and it goes down the street picking up garbage cans along the curbside with a mechanical arm . So are we supposed to keep paying the 2 guys that are no longer needed?

I think what annoys a lot of folks is these guys are expecting a certain quality of life to be supplied to them by the Canadian taxpayers. Its pretty arrogant when many folks are worried about loosing their jobs in the recession and these guys are saying "I deserve to be taken care of for life, and I expect YOU to pay for it."

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Post by Dillon » 2002-07-12 01:08pm

Well according to today's Montreal gazette, the strike is over, apparently a legislation was passed. It would appear the city wanted to be clean in time for the Pope's visit.

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