Concerned about flight, advice??

OT: anything goes!

Moderator: Edi

User avatar
FancyDarcy
Redshirt
Posts: 40
Joined: 2017-06-05 11:49pm

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by FancyDarcy » 2018-06-20 07:05am

Holyshit I'm onboard it's going to take off now rid is it I did hope I'll post again

User avatar
Tribble
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2247
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Tribble » 2018-06-20 07:21am

FancyDarcy wrote:
2018-06-20 06:55am
I think it's going to crash, it's going to break apart after taking off i saw in a dream where this happened oh please i hope it wont, I've so to still see in the world
Well nice knowing you then; tell the sharks I said hello! Assuming you somehow survive the break up of course.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage

User avatar
Tribble
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2247
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Tribble » 2018-06-20 07:32am

Incidentally, if you are serious about wanting to see the world, you're probably going to have to get used to flying. Just sayin'.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30092
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-06-20 12:26pm

Planes do not normally crash. If they normally crashed, no one would get into them.
FancyDarcy wrote:
2018-06-20 06:02am
Man I think I'm a bit worse this time, just the thought of taking off is making me feel nauseous and dizzy, I can't belive it's six hours long. I'm so scared I'm going to die soon, I really can't think properly. So called logic is not helping, I just can't stop panicking right now..
I empathize with you, but you need to go to therapy for your fear of flying. A therapist may be able to help you figure out why you are afraid, and how to relieve these fears, instead of just having to suffer through them. Since even though you hate flying, you still find yourself flying every several months anyway... It would probably be good if you could get help for that.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20224
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-06-20 01:08pm

Travel overland, see the world, don't fly unless there is no other way...? :P

Or travel over the seas.

I mean, of course going to see a doctor and getting lorazepam or something is also an option.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12116
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-06-20 01:20pm

I mean, boat travel is still an option. A difficult one since there's little to no international boat travel that isn't monopolized by travel companies and cruise ships charging exorbitant prices, but it's an option.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20224
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-06-20 02:40pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-06-20 01:20pm
I mean, boat travel is still an option. A difficult one since there's little to no international boat travel that isn't monopolized by travel companies and cruise ships charging exorbitant prices, but it's an option.
There is, actually, if you're willing to sign up for a cruisers' forum and find crews that be willing to accept you as a passenger or a full crew member, depending on skills. But routes may vary and it is not a "pay, get onboard, get off at destination port". :P
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
FancyDarcy
Redshirt
Posts: 40
Joined: 2017-06-05 11:49pm

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by FancyDarcy » 2018-06-20 03:05pm

Hmmm, well that was actually a rather pleasant and uneventful flight. I think there's something wrong about that airport: even after returning from a flight I've felt vaguely unsettled inside. I think it's the giant, open spaces and the super tall ceilings, and how all the shops seem rather "glingy" and over materialistic. It really promotes a super oppressive and frightening atmosphere. I found it strange how I actually felt somewhat relieved once inside the airplane, and further after it had climbed to 30k feet.

Apparently sitting on the wing makes a huge difference. I remember last time, I flew on the very back seats of a airbus a330, and it was horrid on liftoff, and the rest of the flight was bumpy and unstable. Also does anyone know about the "twisted" interior of the a330? I remember a distinct sloping of the interior which I didn't notice, or it didn't become apparent until after the takeoff, where I actually thought the aircraft was breaking apart for a while.

Sitting on the wing made it actually difficult to feel the g force from liftoff. Usually they're very strong, enough to knock you to the floor or pin you into a seat with no hope of moving, but I almost didn't notice the plane had taken off until I saw the street lights and buildings falling away. The accent too 39k feet was very calm, and for the majority of the flight, I could not physically feel any movement except vibrations. For some reason I became afraid when it later ascended to 41k feet, and it seemed slightly more raw and less smooth.

I tend to post silly rubbish when I'm very nervous, but I wondered on the flight how dangerous a bleed of the posterior nose section from the veins would be, since the air is so dry. That could almost be as bad as crashing, since no one would take me seriously until I was almost dead. I can just imagine blood pouring out uncontrollably, and people just telling me to "calm down, it's just a nosebleed from the dry air don't worry haha". I can imagine this would continue until I was showing very obvious signs of blood loss or shock, even then people would probably just think I'm putting it on.

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 25704
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Broomstick » 2018-06-20 04:18pm

I don't normally advocate drugs, but seriously, this is NOT a normal level of concern. Next time, go to a doctor and ask for tranquilizers or something. Wait - explain the problem first, THEN ask for the medications.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30092
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-06-20 07:28pm

FancyDarcy wrote:
2018-06-20 03:05pm
Hmmm, well that was actually a rather pleasant and uneventful flight. I think there's something wrong about that airport: even after returning from a flight I've felt vaguely unsettled inside. I think it's the giant, open spaces and the super tall ceilings, and how all the shops seem rather "glingy" and over materialistic. It really promotes a super oppressive and frightening atmosphere. I found it strange how I actually felt somewhat relieved once inside the airplane, and further after it had climbed to 30k feet.
Airports are designed to be at least okay for most people. Your reaction is unusual. That doesn't make you a bad person, but you might want to try to figure out where it's coming from. Do you have phobias of entirely open spaces, or large buildings in general?
Apparently sitting on the wing makes a huge difference. I remember last time, I flew on the very back seats of a airbus a330, and it was horrid on liftoff, and the rest of the flight was bumpy and unstable. Also does anyone know about the "twisted" interior of the a330? I remember a distinct sloping of the interior which I didn't notice, or it didn't become apparent until after the takeoff, where I actually thought the aircraft was breaking apart for a while.
This doesn't sound like a normal airplane feature.

The corridor on an A330 might have some slope to it, but honestly, at this point I'd be more likely to attribute your perceptions to stress-induced hallucinations.
Sitting on the wing made it actually difficult to feel the g force from liftoff. Usually they're very strong, enough to knock you to the floor or pin you into a seat with no hope of moving, but I almost didn't notice the plane had taken off until I saw the street lights and buildings falling away.
That's normal. The g-force from liftoff is NOT normally very strong in commercial aircraft; typical g-forces are 1.2 or maybe 1.5g, which is not enough to 'knock you to the floor or pin you into a seat' unless you are physically disabled or unusually frail.

I think your fear of flying is heightening your perceptions, so that very small stimuli appear large and intimidating. Molehills made into mountains, so to speak.
The accent too 39k feet was very calm, and for the majority of the flight, I could not physically feel any movement except vibrations. For some reason I became afraid when it later ascended to 41k feet, and it seemed slightly more raw and less smooth.
While that could have been because they rose to fly over some bad weather and caught a tiny amount of the bad weather, it's also possible that it's your anxiety boosting your perception of very small sensations that most people just ignore.
I tend to post silly rubbish when I'm very nervous, but I wondered on the flight how dangerous a bleed of the posterior nose section from the veins would be, since the air is so dry. That could almost be as bad as crashing, since no one would take me seriously until I was almost dead. I can just imagine blood pouring out uncontrollably, and people just telling me to "calm down, it's just a nosebleed from the dry air don't worry haha".
Large amounts of rapid blood flow tend to get people's attention very quickly. You should not assume other people will just ignore this kind of thing. If you know people who would ignore this kind of thing, they are very stupid and uncaring, and you should avoid such people in future.
I can imagine this would continue until I was showing very obvious signs of blood loss or shock, even then people would probably just think I'm putting it on.
That is not how people work. It is super double plus not how trained professionals like the staff on an airplane work. Remember that if you almost die on an airplane, you can sue them for not providing medical care. If you do die, your family can sue. The airline does not want to lose millions of dollars in a lawsuit because they hired callous untrained fuckups who would ignore someone's life-threatening medical problem.

You're doing that thing where you imagine a worst-case scenario in which people behave in very contrived and unlikely ways, to 'explain' how such a horrible scenario could happen.

Find a therapist who can talk to you about where your anxiety, and your tendency to worry about other people behaving in brick-stupid ways, come from. This will help you to live and be happy.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 25704
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Broomstick » 2018-06-20 08:16pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
2018-06-20 07:28pm
FancyDarcy wrote:
2018-06-20 03:05pm
Sitting on the wing made it actually difficult to feel the g force from liftoff. Usually they're very strong, enough to knock you to the floor or pin you into a seat with no hope of moving, but I almost didn't notice the plane had taken off until I saw the street lights and buildings falling away.
That's normal. The g-force from liftoff is NOT normally very strong in commercial aircraft; typical g-forces are 1.2 or maybe 1.5g, which is not enough to 'knock you to the floor or pin you into a seat' unless you are physically disabled or unusually frail.
Uh, yeah - airlines are careful about how much g-force the passengers get to experience and Simon is pretty much on the mark here.

I've been at +3 g's myself (officially measured by a g-meter) and while it's certainly uncomfortable I had no trouble moving. Indeed, it was sort of essential as I was flying the airplane at the time.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10863
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Lord Revan » 2018-06-20 11:21pm

Broomstick wrote:
2018-06-20 08:16pm
Simon_Jester wrote:
2018-06-20 07:28pm
FancyDarcy wrote:
2018-06-20 03:05pm
Sitting on the wing made it actually difficult to feel the g force from liftoff. Usually they're very strong, enough to knock you to the floor or pin you into a seat with no hope of moving, but I almost didn't notice the plane had taken off until I saw the street lights and buildings falling away.
That's normal. The g-force from liftoff is NOT normally very strong in commercial aircraft; typical g-forces are 1.2 or maybe 1.5g, which is not enough to 'knock you to the floor or pin you into a seat' unless you are physically disabled or unusually frail.
Uh, yeah - airlines are careful about how much g-force the passengers get to experience and Simon is pretty much on the mark here.

I've been at +3 g's myself (officially measured by a g-meter) and while it's certainly uncomfortable I had no trouble moving. Indeed, it was sort of essential as I was flying the airplane at the time.
Yeah while you can get pushed to the seat or knocked out of your feet if standing, when on a plane that's lifting of that's inertia that's doing it not g-forces (since you start at essentially standing still and acclerate to speed in a rather short time), but that's harmless and can happen even in a car that's making rapid movements (hell even to small degree if you're running fast and make a quick turn) if not quite as strongly.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

User avatar
Raw Shark
Stunt Driver / Babysitter
Posts: 6343
Joined: 2005-11-24 09:35am
Location: One Mile Up

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Raw Shark » 2018-06-21 06:57am

Broomstick wrote:
2018-06-20 04:18pm
I don't normally advocate drugs, but seriously, this is NOT a normal level of concern. Next time, go to a doctor and ask for tranquilizers or something. Wait - explain the problem first, THEN ask for the medications.
I do normally advocate drugs. I won't get on a plane without some serious benzos. Xanax is my favorite, but I'll take what I can get. I pop 1/4 of a Xanny Bar an hour before the flight, then chew another 1/4 in the security line, and I'm A-OK by takeoff as long as I have a book or other distraction.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker

User avatar
Zaune
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6064
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Zaune » 2018-06-21 07:32am

And if you're uncomfortable with pharmaceuticals, my dad used to swear by several large glasses of wine before and during the flight.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 25704
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Broomstick » 2018-06-21 07:46am

Alcohol is also a "pharmaceutical", even in the form of wine.

The problem with using alcohol to self-medicate, aside from the tell-tale odor and coordination problems that can lead airline personnel to hold you back from a flight (which the OP might regard as a more a feature than a bug) is that it also tends to dehydrate you, which the drier, thinner air typical of an in-flight airplane also does which can exacerbate physical discomfort. And while it can relax you, lowered inhibitions might lead to greater anxiety and greater expressions of it in some individuals.

Again, I don't advocate self-medication, but Raw Shark's favored solution is likely to be more effective in relieving this sort of anxiety with minimal adverse side effects.

Short-term use of something like Xanax for alleviating extreme fear of flying is a recognized and often effective use. If you can talk to a doc about it and he/she is willing to prescribe it, it is probably a better way of dealing with the problem than getting drunk off your ass.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30092
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-06-21 08:34am

Broomstick wrote:
2018-06-20 08:16pm
Uh, yeah - airlines are careful about how much g-force the passengers get to experience and Simon is pretty much on the mark here.

I've been at +3 g's myself (officially measured by a g-meter) and while it's certainly uncomfortable I had no trouble moving. Indeed, it was sort of essential as I was flying the airplane at the time.
To be fair, weighing three times what you ought to would certainly be enough to "knock you off your feet or pin you to your seat."

So for a typical adult female (weight, oh let's say 150 pounds), this is equivalent to wearing a 300-pound suit of heavy armor or padding or big packs full of rocks or something. Normal movement, the kind where you get out of your chair and move around in the aircraft, would be pretty impractical, though maybe possible if it was a life-or-death matter. Assuming that you, Broomstick, are of roughly average height and build, it would be a bit like you trying to move around while giving an NFL linebacker a piggyback ride.

On the other hand, moving your arms, to operate aircraft controls, wouldn't be that difficult; a 150-pound person's arm weighs about eight pounds. Moving an eight-pound arm under three gravities would be the equivalent of moving your arm with a couple of milk jugs hanging off it. You don't have to be Ahnuld to accomplish that.

Moreover, 3g forces are something commercial pilots never voluntarily expose their passengers to, because what kind of moron would willingly do that? It's uncomfortable, and an airline that makes its passengers uncomfortable when it doesn't have to is an airline that goes out of business.

So as we're saying, commercial pilots tend to exert the minimum amount of g-force consistent with getting the plane off the ground at all, and with navigating the skies. This is a pretty low amount.

The fact that FancyDarcy is perceiving these low amounts as 'knock you on your ass' forces suggests, again, that his anxiety is leading him to experience exaggerated sensations (small risks appear certain to occur, small forces appear large and insurmountable, small distractions appear overwhelming, and subtle or imaginary things like a tilt in the floor appear great and certain).
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 25704
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Concerned about flight, advice??

Post by Broomstick » 2018-06-21 09:38am

Simon_Jester wrote:
2018-06-21 08:34am
Broomstick wrote:
2018-06-20 08:16pm
Uh, yeah - airlines are careful about how much g-force the passengers get to experience and Simon is pretty much on the mark here.

I've been at +3 g's myself (officially measured by a g-meter) and while it's certainly uncomfortable I had no trouble moving. Indeed, it was sort of essential as I was flying the airplane at the time.
To be fair, weighing three times what you ought to would certainly be enough to "knock you off your feet or pin you to your seat."

So for a typical adult female (weight, oh let's say 150 pounds), this is equivalent to wearing a 300-pound suit of heavy armor or padding or big packs full of rocks or something. Normal movement, the kind where you get out of your chair and move around in the aircraft, would be pretty impractical, though maybe possible if it was a life-or-death matter. Assuming that you, Broomstick, are of roughly average height and build, it would be a bit like you trying to move around while giving an NFL linebacker a piggyback ride.
Well, sure, but he said movement was impossible, not that dancing in the aisles was impossible. Under 2-3 g's I am capable of moving my arms and legs, shifting in my seat, I'm not "pinned" although I'd much prefer sitting down to even attempting to stand up. I'm pretty sure I have the physical strength to stand up under such circumstances, given that the weight isn't concentrated but rather distributed over your entire body (it is weird to suddenly be aware of how much your eyelids weigh) but it would not be my preference. For damn sure my heart would be pounding like a jackhammer - just sitting down under such circumstances you can feel your heart working harder.

But you never experience that sort of g-force on a commercial airline. You experience more g-force on a roller coaster (some of which do get up to 2-3g's at points on the ride). What you feel on an airline is more like what you'd experience in a elevator, or driving your car around town.
Moreover, 3g forces are something commercial pilots never voluntarily expose their passengers to, because what kind of moron would willingly do that? It's uncomfortable, and an airline that makes its passengers uncomfortable when it doesn't have to is an airline that goes out of business.
It could also have Bad Consequences for the elderly, the frail, and others on board - if the OP was really on an airliner beating up the passengers to that extent he wouldn't be the only one in distress.
So as we're saying, commercial pilots tend to exert the minimum amount of g-force consistent with getting the plane off the ground at all, and with navigating the skies. This is a pretty low amount.
Yep. It's deliberately kept as low and non-disruptive as possible.
The fact that FancyDarcy is perceiving these low amounts as 'knock you on your ass' forces suggests, again, that his anxiety is leading him to experience exaggerated sensations (small risks appear certain to occur, small forces appear large and insurmountable, small distractions appear overwhelming, and subtle or imaginary things like a tilt in the floor appear great and certain).
Oh, yes, it's clearly an amplification of small effects as a result of severe anxiety.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

Post Reply