2017 Formula 1 season

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atg
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-08-28 06:35pm

Thanas wrote:
2017-08-28 06:10am
Spa just showed what I thought to be true, that Mercedes is so far ahead in its car development it is not even funny.
I don't think that's the case at all. Even with Hamilton's "mighty lap" in quali Vettel was only .2 behind. Post-race comments from both Merc and Ferrari seem to indicate both sides consider the Ferrari to be the better car.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-08-28 07:10pm

atg wrote:
2017-08-28 06:35pm
Thanas wrote:
2017-08-28 06:10am
Spa just showed what I thought to be true, that Mercedes is so far ahead in its car development it is not even funny.
I don't think that's the case at all. Even with Hamilton's "mighty lap" in quali Vettel was only .2 behind. Post-race comments from both Merc and Ferrari seem to indicate both sides consider the Ferrari to be the better car.

Finishing 2.5 seconds while being on the faster tires does not mean a car is faster, quite the opposite really.

Quali does not matter. Race performance does and Vettel never caught Hamilton or pulled of an overtake.


SpottedKitty wrote:
2017-08-28 05:42pm
Thanas wrote:
2017-08-28 06:10am
Spa just showed what I thought to be true, that Mercedes is so far ahead in its car development it is not even funny.
Certainly looking that way; how many times did Vettel start an overtake, then not quite manage to pull it off? And I was surprised how quickly Hamilton caught up with the other Ferrari during the final round of pit stop musical chairs.
Yeah, I think until Vettel manages a convincing win soon the season is all but over.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-08-28 07:45pm

Thanas wrote:
2017-08-28 07:10pm
Finishing 2.5 seconds while being on the faster tires does not mean a car is faster, quite the opposite really.

Quali does not matter. Race performance does and Vettel never caught Hamilton or pulled of an overtake.
The Ultra is only really quicker for 2-3 laps before its edge wears off. As expected Vettel was able to challenge for a couple of laps and was only held off by Hamilton's tactics coming into Eau Rouge. If he hadn't Vettel would have done to him what Kimi (and Riccardo) did to Bottas.

Bottas being taken by Kimi and Vettel being able to match Hamilton the whole race is the opposite of "Mercedes is so far ahead in its car development it is not even funny." Remember Merc were expected to dominate this weekend, and absolutely did not. F1 has a title fight on its hands for the rest of this season.

Check these comments from Mark Hughes.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-08-28 08:11pm

I don't see it and I don't think many do. Whenever Hamilton needed that little extra of speed he had it.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Alferd Packer » 2017-08-30 09:27am

And apparently they (Merc) can continue to use their current-rate oil-burn ICE, since they introduced the 4th one this weekend and thus had it grandfathered in. The rest of the field is going have an ICE which is limited to burn .9L/100km or somesuch, whereas the works Merc team is going to be able to burn 1.2L/100KM for the rest of the season, as long as they don't have to introduce a 5th ICE.

I mean, it's not all that much over the race distance, but then again, if you're Lewis and Seb is nipping at your heels, you'll probably feel a little better about things knowing that you have that in your back pocket and can turn up the wick just a little more than he can.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-09-04 07:00am

Amazing qualifying performance from Hamilton and dominant performance from the Mercs in the race. Singapore should be a turn around for Ferrari so tight race to the season finale.
Alferd Packer wrote:
2017-08-30 09:27am
And apparently they (Merc) can continue to use their current-rate oil-burn ICE, since they introduced the 4th one this weekend and thus had it grandfathered in. The rest of the field is going have an ICE which is limited to burn .9L/100km or somesuch, whereas the works Merc team is going to be able to burn 1.2L/100KM for the rest of the season, as long as they don't have to introduce a 5th ICE.
Toto Wolff went on record that they ran 0.9L at at Spa and Monza and would for the rest of the season. Ferrari ran 1.2L at Spa.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-09-04 07:04am

atg wrote:
2017-09-04 07:00am
Amazing qualifying performance from Hamilton and dominant performance from the Mercs in the race. Singapore should be a turn around for Ferrari so tight race to the season finale.

I don't think it will, the mercedes is just so much more dominant were it counts. I think the championship is over already unlesss Hamilton screws up spectacularly.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by SpottedKitty » 2017-09-04 02:29pm

Thanas wrote:
2017-09-04 07:04am
I don't think it will, the mercedes is just so much more dominant were it counts. I think the championship is over already unlesss Hamilton screws up spectacularly.
Also assuming Vettel doesn't make a mistake himself or have a bit of bad luck, both of which have happened to him this season.

An impressive recovery from Verstappen, getting (just!) back into the points after that disastrous puncture a few laps in.

BTW, did anyone else see the computer-driven places listing glitch a couple of times? Just before the half-way mark Vettel briefly dropped to 12th, and just before he retired, Palmer (I think) jumped up four or five places. I was wondering what was going on.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-09-04 07:35pm

It was mentioned that Palmer had transponder issues.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-09-17 10:14am

Well what should have been a triumphant race for Ferrari starts with Vettel bottling it. I agree with Brundle that Vettel was more to blame for that crash.

Hamilton with one hand on the championship - but still 6 races with only a 28 point lead.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-09-17 02:12pm

atg wrote:
2017-09-17 10:14am
Well what should have been a triumphant race for Ferrari starts with Vettel bottling it. I agree with Brundle that Vettel was more to blame for that crash.

Hamilton with one hand on the championship - but still 6 races with only a 28 point lead.
I think it is really more Kimi's fault as it was his responsibility to brake, but it is a moot point anyway. Hamilton got this, the season might as well be over.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by SpottedKitty » 2017-09-17 06:16pm

Ouch. Much ouch.

Interesting; Verstappen didn't seem all that badly damaged until Raikonnen hit him the second time and pushed him into Alonso (at least I think that's what happened). I wonder if that first sandwich was actually survivable?

Anyone know what took so long to get Ericsson's car out of there? Are the wreck recovery procedures as good as they could be?
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-09-17 09:41pm

SpottedKitty wrote:
2017-09-17 06:16pm
Anyone know what took so long to get Ericsson's car out of there? Are the wreck recovery procedures as good as they could be?
I think because of the narrowness of the bridge they had to wait for the cars to all bunch up to make it safe to get the recovery vehicle/staff out there.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Phantasee » 2017-09-17 11:03pm

Reading Thanas' comments over the course of the season and even today, blaming Kimi over Seb for that absolute mess Seb caused... :lol:

Glad LH has gotten himself a solid lead this weekend. Looking forward to him ending the season well up on Seb the Shunt.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Alkaloid » 2017-09-18 05:24am

Reading Thanas' comments over the course of the season and even today, blaming Kimi over Seb for that absolute mess Seb caused... :lol:
Better than Ferrari trying to blame Verstappen...

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-09-18 09:31am

Phantasee wrote:
2017-09-17 11:03pm
Reading Thanas' comments over the course of the season and even today, blaming Kimi over Seb for that absolute mess Seb caused... :lol:
He was the last car, his responsibility to brake.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Alferd Packer » 2017-09-26 07:33am

Looks like Kyvat might be done at STR.

Oh well. There's always Sauber, right? Right?
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-09-30 05:21am

Well Vettel's hopes for this weekend just went bang.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-10-01 09:41pm

Well its definitely looking that Ferrari have the better car at the moment. Excellent recovery drive from Vettel to finish 4th. Season isn't over yet.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by AniThyng » 2017-10-01 10:19pm

atg wrote:
2017-10-01 09:41pm
Well its definitely looking that Ferrari have the better car at the moment. Excellent recovery drive from Vettel to finish 4th. Season isn't over yet.
The post race incident was hilarious though.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-10-02 02:41am

atg wrote:
2017-10-01 09:41pm
Well its definitely looking that Ferrari have the better car at the moment. Excellent recovery drive from Vettel to finish 4th. Season isn't over yet.
Better car and they still can't touch the mercs in quali?

And don't kid yourself, the season is over. Has been over ever since Singapore.
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-10-02 03:23am

Thanas wrote:
2017-10-02 02:41am
atg wrote:
2017-10-01 09:41pm
Well its definitely looking that Ferrari have the better car at the moment. Excellent recovery drive from Vettel to finish 4th. Season isn't over yet.
Better car and they still can't touch the mercs in quali?
Did you watch the past couple races or are you being deliberately ignorant?

Singapore: Vettel (1st) outqualified Hamilton (5th) by 0.635s.
Malaysia: Hamilton (1st) outqualified Raikkonen (2nd) by 0.045s. If Vettel's engine didn't go bang he would have been first easy and run away with the race.

"Still can't touch the Mercs" indeed. :roll:
And don't kid yourself, the season is over. Has been over ever since Singapore.
The ONLY reason Hamilton is still in the lead of the championship is because of Ferrari's team and driver mess ups. Vettel should have taken 50 points (and consequently Hamilton less than what he does) from Singapore and Malaysia rather than just 12. Five races left and Vettel has every chance to catch Hamilton, especially with Red Bull resurgent.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-10-02 12:37pm

atg wrote:
2017-10-02 03:23am
"Still can't touch the Mercs" indeed.
Want to bet on it? I am willing to bet 100€ right now that Hamilton will be champion.

Hamilton has a 34 points lead. Unless he crashes out two races there is no way that Vettel will catch him. And Ferrari is not quicker in the races.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Captain Seafort » 2017-10-02 12:59pm

atg wrote:
2017-10-01 09:41pm
Well its definitely looking that Ferrari have the better car at the moment.
In Malaysia the Merc proved vastly superior to the Ferrari. The relative speed of two cars is irrelevant if one of them is out on track and the other is in the garage with the engine cover off and its engineers frowning at it.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-10-03 08:23am

Thanas wrote:
2017-10-02 12:37pm
Hamilton has a 34 points lead. Unless he crashes out two races there is no way that Vettel will catch him.
34 point lead. 5 races to go. 7 point difference between 1st and 2nd. 5 x 7 = 35. Therefore Vettel can still win even without a Hamilton DNF. Add Raikkonen and the Red Bulls looking like they can play interference and it is eminently possible that Vettel can take the championship. I'm not saying its a certainty that he wont get it, but Hamilton does not have a lock on the title.

Vettel in fact already closed similar gaps in previous seasons: 2010 & 2012. 2010 was 31 points in 6 races IIRC.
And Ferrari is not quicker in the races.
So Vettel didn't come from last place to beat one of the Mercs (and also had a go at a Red Bull)? :roll: And all these guys are wrong:

Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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