2017 Formula 1 season

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SpottedKitty
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by SpottedKitty » 2017-06-26 01:13am

Can anyone remember the last time a race was red-flagged for debris on the track? I know there have been several races in recent years where I was sure that was going to happen, but everyone was allowed to keep going, running over bits of carbon fibre, and scattering it all over the place. Was there something different about this one?

I'm also not sure what to make of something said by the commentators while Kvyat's car was being prepared for clearing away, that the stewards didn't seem to be as well trained as at other tracks, and that during downticket races earlier in the day, they'd actually damaged eliminated cars as much, if not more, than the crashes that put them out of the race. :?
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-06-26 01:28am

IIRC they're was at least one in the past 3 years that was redflagged for debris but I cannot remember which track.

I suspect a lot of the reason for it here is that where a lot of the debris was around turn 2-3 the track is very tight with blind corners - not the situation where you want people on the track when there are cars under safety car still doing 80+kph.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-06-26 05:01am

atg wrote:Really? Exactly how many of their incidents happened under a safety car? How many times did Hamilton or Rosberg stoop to the levels of a highway jerk road rager?
Don't know, but going full speed and hitting your teammate in the side at max speed causing him to spin wildly is much more riskier than a nudge at 50kph.

10 second stop-go was a joke. It has set the precedent that you can lose your mind, rage out, and get a slap on the wrist. These drivers should be held to much better standards. I wonder what you'd be saying if it was Maldonado in Vettel's shoes.
Eh, probably the same since this was just a nudge.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Alferd Packer » 2017-06-26 08:53am

He also got 3 points on his Super License, which apparently brings him 1 point away from a race ban.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Captain Seafort » 2017-06-26 01:23pm

Thanas wrote:Don't know, but going full speed and hitting your teammate in the side at max speed causing him to spin wildly is much more riskier than a nudge at 50kph.
We're talking about incomparable situations. Sure, most drivers have probably been involved in shunts that have caused far more damage, and plenty of them have been at fault for it, including Hamilton. Mistakes, misjudgements, and over-aggressive overtakes are not, however, remotely comparable to deliberately using one's car as a weapon for the sole purpose of striking a competitor's vehicle.
Alferd Packer wrote:He also got 3 points on his Super License, which apparently brings him 1 point away from a race ban.
Not quite - he's on nine points and gets banned at 12, so if he gets three more points next time, in Austria, he'll be banned for the British GP the week after. After that the two points he got last year will drop off.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-06-26 05:37pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Thanas wrote:Don't know, but going full speed and hitting your teammate in the side at max speed causing him to spin wildly is much more riskier than a nudge at 50kph.
We're talking about incomparable situations. Sure, most drivers have probably been involved in shunts that have caused far more damage, and plenty of them have been at fault for it, including Hamilton. Mistakes, misjudgements, and over-aggressive overtakes are not, however, remotely comparable to deliberately using one's car as a weapon for the sole purpose of striking a competitor's vehicle.
I dont think it was deliberate. I think he was just being an idiot and took his hands off the wheel to gesticulate wildly after having turned in before to correct the veer left.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-06-26 06:54pm

Bill Burr has a nice take on it. Link

I guess you could say he might be a bit biased.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-06-27 10:44am

So after the tempers have cooled down a bit, here are a few reactions.

Villeneuve on the incident
The Ferrari driver received a 10-second stop-and-go penalty, but many - Hamilton himself among them - insisted the sanction was not severe enough.

Villeneuve, who 20 years ago was involved in a notorious collision with Michael Schumacher in the 1997 title finale at Jerez, said that incident - which led to Schumacher being excluded from the championship standings - was not similar to the Baku flare-up.

“It was very different,” he told Motorsport.com. “They’re going 10mph, who cares?

"Of course it was ugly, but ultimately Lewis brake-tested him. I’m a driver, I’ve been there.

"Whenever a driver did that to me, then I would do whatever Seb did.
He got a penalty, the biggest he could get, I guess, according to the new rules."

Villeneuve reckoned that Vettel did not intend to barge against Hamilton's car when he pulled alongside the Mercedes: “I don’t think he was trying to hit him. He had one hand on the wheel and was looking at him and pointing the finger.

"You don’t hit with your wheels turned like that, you will break your own car, and with one hand – if you’re going to hit someone, you have two hands on the wheel!

“That’s fine, that’s OK, that’s cool. And in a way I am happy to see that drivers have emotions. It’s good, it’s fun.

"We have the two guys fighting for the championship, getting angry with each other, and ultimately no damage was done. What’s the big issue?

"It’s great TV, it’s good to see that they’re on it. Much nicer than Lewis asking [teammate Valtteri] Bottas to slow Vettel down. I mean, that was embarrassing."

"More penalties for weaving"

Villeneuve said he was also happy to see stewards decide against a penalty for the first-lap collision between Valtteri Bottas and Kimi Raikkonen, but suggested it was an example of modern F1's inconsistent stewarding.

“At the end of the day Bottas didn’t get a penalty for running into Kimi. But at the same time the rules should allow racing and mistakes.

"I’m happy there was no penalty, but then others shouldn’t get them either. It was racing, and one just made a mistake and one ran into the other.

“But I would like to see more penalties for weaving, which we hardly ever see – that’s the big issue. In Montreal I think [Stoffel] Vandoorne did it at one point, and at least [Carlos] Sainz got a penalty.

"We see some extreme weaving and that should be penalised.

"What Bottas did, that was just poor driving, but it’s racing. What Vettel did was not nice, not sportsmanlike, but good to see.

Martin Brundle has also said the penalty applied was enough.



Also where is the outrage at this:
“I was honestly a bit bored so I just thought let’s bang some wheels and get the crowd excited! I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t intentional, but I knew there was no harm done. A little bit of a smoke for the fans.”
- DR on why he drove into vettel at high speed earlier this season.

OMG using his car as a weapon because he was bored.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-06-27 09:01pm

"Of course it was ugly, but ultimately Lewis brake-tested him. I’m a driver, I’ve been there.

"Whenever a driver did that to me, then I would do whatever Seb did. He got a penalty, the biggest he could get, I guess, according to the new rules."
Except for the part where, like the data shows, Hamilton didn't brake test at all. So basically Villeneuve being his usual idiotic self.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-07-09 09:42am

Ridiculously good race, but the sky camera work left much to be desired. Great drive by Ricciardo, shame for Vettel and as always Hamilton keeps bitching about every little problem while setting fastest lap after fastest lap.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-07-09 09:42am

Ridiculously good race, but the sky camera work left much to be desired. Great drive by Ricciardo, shame for Vettel and as always Hamilton keeps bitching about every little problem while setting fastest lap after fastest lap.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-07-09 03:41pm

Also how the fuck was bottas not penalised for the obvious jumpstart?
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by SpottedKitty » 2017-07-09 07:57pm

Thanas wrote:
2017-07-09 03:41pm
Also how the fuck was bottas not penalised for the obvious jumpstart?
I dunno about "obvious", I was just watching a review of the start, and it seemed that Bottas was a bit quicker than average but still legal, while Vettel was a bit slower off the mark, making the difference more conspicuous.

And then there was Kvyat playing dodgems. Verstappen's just having no luck at all this year.

Quite a finish, though, I wonder if Hamilton might have made a podium if his tyres hadn't been visibly on their last legs?
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-07-09 08:28pm

Thanas wrote:
2017-07-09 03:41pm
Also how the fuck was bottas not penalised for the obvious jumpstart?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... ia-928763/
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-07-10 03:08am

SpottedKitty wrote:
2017-07-09 07:57pm
Thanas wrote:
2017-07-09 03:41pm
Also how the fuck was bottas not penalised for the obvious jumpstart?
I dunno about "obvious", I was just watching a review of the start, and it seemed that Bottas was a bit quicker than average but still legal, while Vettel was a bit slower off the mark, making the difference more conspicuous.

And then there was Kvyat playing dodgems. Verstappen's just having no luck at all this year.

Quite a finish, though, I wonder if Hamilton might have made a podium if his tyres hadn't been visibly on their last legs?
Dude he clearly dropped the clutch and started moving before the lights had stopped fading.

You can even see the lights on his steering wheel change indicating he did switch into gear.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-07-16 05:35am

https://streamable.com/anz6j

Should this have been a penalty? Probably though I can see why they don't want to interefere with a brit in silverstone.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Alferd Packer » 2017-07-31 07:51am

If Seb's car was truly as broken as he said it was, he did an amazing job nursing that thing to a victory. Also, major props to Hamilton for actually letting Bottas back through to take 3rd even though he was clearly slower, and also managing to block Max from zipping through too.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-07-31 10:58am

I will have to say that this was a great example of sportsmanship by Hamilton, not sure if other drivers would have done the same. Vettel proabably would not have done so, especially with 3 points on the line.

That being said the upcoming tracks seem to be favouring mercedes design more than red bull, so this is going to be IMO very hard for Vettel to win.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-08-05 09:40pm

Thanas wrote:
2017-07-31 10:58am
That being said the upcoming tracks seem to be favouring mercedes design more than red bull, so this is going to be IMO very hard for Vettel to win.
Feels to me like an echo of 2010 or 2013. One team with the (likely) better car hasn't realized that potential in points in the first half of the season.

With some time to have worked on its issues they have the potential to run away with it in the second half.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-08-06 01:14pm

atg wrote:
2017-08-05 09:40pm
Thanas wrote:
2017-07-31 10:58am
That being said the upcoming tracks seem to be favouring mercedes design more than red bull, so this is going to be IMO very hard for Vettel to win.
Feels to me like an echo of 2010 or 2013. One team with the (likely) better car hasn't realized that potential in points in the first half of the season.

With some time to have worked on its issues they have the potential to run away with it in the second half.
There is also the issue of power units. I think Ferrari will have to take a penalty later on but Mercedes might be able to soldier on.

With that context, Vettel's lead becomes meaningless. I think Hamilton is the clear-cut favorite here.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Alferd Packer » 2017-08-07 08:45am

Yeah, I think you have to hope Ferrari has something up their sleeve for the second half to make them competitive on the power circuits. Right now, Spa, Monza, and Mexico stand out as clear favorites for the Merc chassis, and most of the other tracks--you know, the Tilkedromes--probably lean towards Merc too.

Although, if Bottas winds up winning a couple, he could make it three horse race--especially if Lewis has bad luck on the same weekend.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-08-07 10:00am

Could be like 2007 with tne two McLarens Mercs falling over each other for a Ferrari win.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by atg » 2017-08-27 10:20pm

Tense few laps after the safety car there in Spa. When I saw Hamilton on the Softs after the last pitstop I was sure that Vettel on the ultras would breeze past.
Marcus Aurelius: ...the Swedish S-tank; the exception is made mostly because the Swedes insisted really hard that it is a tank rather than a tank destroyer or assault gun
Ilya Muromets: And now I have this image of a massive, stern-looking Swede staring down a bunch of military nerds. "It's a tank." "Uh, yes Sir. Please don't hurt us."

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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by Thanas » 2017-08-28 06:10am

Spa just showed what I thought to be true, that Mercedes is so far ahead in its car development it is not even funny.
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 season

Post by SpottedKitty » 2017-08-28 05:42pm

Thanas wrote:
2017-08-28 06:10am
Spa just showed what I thought to be true, that Mercedes is so far ahead in its car development it is not even funny.
Certainly looking that way; how many times did Vettel start an overtake, then not quite manage to pull it off? And I was surprised how quickly Hamilton caught up with the other Ferrari during the final round of pit stop musical chairs.
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