Asian Union RAR

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mr friendly guy
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Asian Union RAR

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-02-08 10:13am

By the power of Q, you are tasked with designing a new geopolitical entity among Asian nations. Whose purpose is to provide a big block for Asian countries to facilitate trade between members and to allow Asia to have a bigger say in trade and geopolitics as a united bloc. The secondary purpose is to create a block which will rival the EU, soviet union mark II Eurasian union, and the US. The union must economically thrive.

But wait, it was difficult in RL to get France and Germany to be buddy buddy, how are we going to get some of these Asian countries to form a union? Here is where Q helps you. The union will start off with 3 initial members and Q will make the leaders of the countries want to join in this union. They will take commands from you via telepathy (they think your thoughts are their thoughts), and they won't even know it. You'll continue to exert such power over subsequent leaders of those countries until certain conditions are met (see below). Note I said leaders, the general population are immune to your powers. There are some other limits of course.

1. The population are free thinking and Q does not affect them. The leaders will need to convince them.

2. Only the leaders of the first three nations are affected, but even they won't bend over backwards. They will only tolerate the equivalent of what any leader of the European union has tolerated for their country. So a country might tolerate Greece style pain due to Q clicking his fingers, but a leader won't suddenly want to start a war with another power just because you say so.

3. The aim of this union is to eventually have a political and economical union. Note I said eventually. You get time to set this in motion. Lets say, up until the start of the 22 century ie 2101. The people in your Asian Union don't even have to know that is the eventual aim until its too late. How you pull this off is up to you. The first three members sign the treaty to form your union, lets say in 2000. I chose this date before the GFC so you can demonstrate the benefits of joining this union if your members can withstand the shocks that troubled the US and Europe.

4. You're immortal and don't age. If you succeed by the time date Q will let you age again or live for another 100 years and gives you some bonuses like money etc. After this time you no longer affect the leaders of the first three nations and are free to live your life.

5. All countries must join the Asian union willingly, or at least as the leaders are willing. You cannot cheat this system by having another country merge with one of the three original countries and then gain control of their leaders due to your telepathy.

6. Just like the EU which limits membership to certain countries (ie ones which fit the rule of being European), there are similar rules. For the purpose of what is Asian, this also includes
a. transcontinental countries with parts in Asia (eg Turkey, Russia) and some of the caucasus regions.
b. Oceania (because I said so), so it includes Australia, New Zealand etc. Whether you want them in your Asian union is up to you.
c. Parts of the middle east which remains within Asia - so the oil rich gulf states, Israel, Iran, but I would say Egypt is just out.

7. The EU has roughly 60% of all European countries as members, but because Asia has more countries, I will lower the bar. Lets say up to 40% of countries. You cannot cheat by splitting one of your 3 initial countries into several smaller ones and then saying its 40%. :D
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With that in mind

1. Which three countries would initially form the union?

2. What would you call this confederation / eventual federation

3. How do you get the countries to integrate with different governments. For example the PRC and Japan have different governments, how do you deal with this. Some EU parliament clone?

4. Will you introduce a common currency? Can you get eventual political union without one? If you want a common currency, how do you avoid the problems plaguing the Euro with countries of different economic strength being bound to the same currency?

5. How do you entice other countries to join?

6. Which countries do you want to join? Which ones do you definitely not want to join? Can you have a union powerful enough economically to challenge the EU without some of the big Asian countries?

7. What are the criteria for joining countries?

8. How do you solve the pre-existing disputes between members?

9. Will you set up an equivalent to European court and parliament while the union is still in the Confederation stage?

10. What are the rules governing things like movement of people between members, trade between members (do you have a common market), trade with other Asian countries which aren't members of your union?

11. Will you create a Eurovision clone for Asia? :D What would its rules be?
I just had to throw that one out.

12. How will you cope with the refugee crisis, particularly from Syria?

13. How will you deal with the Eurasian union. Will you get Russia and the Stans to join? Or just pinch a few members from them?
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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-08 11:27am

So, do I have to be productive? Or could I form a block which will likely cause a major war, particularly after the objectives and reasons for existence I give it? Part of me feels like being a total prick and going all "Old Testament God" today :twisted:
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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-02-08 06:23pm

Tribble wrote:So, do I have to be productive? Or could I form a block which will likely cause a major war, particularly after the objectives and reasons for existence I give it? Part of me feels like being a total prick and going all "Old Testament God" today :twisted:

The bloc can defend itself if attacked but it will try diplomacy first. It can only get other countries to join similar to how the EU does, ie "look at me, isn't it great to join my club." So no invading or Putin style bribery, ie paying Ukraine lots of money to join the Eurasian union.
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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-08 06:47pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
Tribble wrote:So, do I have to be productive? Or could I form a block which will likely cause a major war, particularly after the objectives and reasons for existence I give it? Part of me feels like being a total prick and going all "Old Testament God" today :twisted:

The bloc can defend itself if attacked but it will try diplomacy first. It can only get other countries to join similar to how the EU does, ie "look at me, isn't it great to join my club." So no invading or Putin style bribery, ie paying Ukraine lots of money to join the Eurasian union.


So which three countries have the best chance of totally overthrowing western civilization and replacing it with a worldwide theocratic dictatorship centred on Asia, without being allowed to start a major war or openly bribe countries in the process? Hmmmmmmm.
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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-02-08 10:28pm

It doesn't really need to overthrow Western civilisation per se, it only needs to be a competitive block with a larger GDP (if you add Asia's GDP PPP its already bigger than the EU or US and I believe the same for GDP nominal as well). Money talks, bullshit walks as the old saying goes. Or the other one about he who controls the purse strings.

Also to correct a potential misunderstanding, the government of this combined state is up to you. It could be a dictatorship or gradually change into a democracy. I am interested to see how people think its possible to achieve the goals. I think theocratic dictatorship while fun for world building purposes is going to be a wee bit difficult to achieve under the conditions stated, especially with powerful non theocracies being worried. That being said, surprise me.
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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-02-08 10:44pm

Actually just had a quick look at GDP PPP for 2016 (estimates only at this stage, final figures from the IMF usually come out in April of the following year), but if you add China, India, Japan, Indonesia and South Korea, the GDP PPP is already bigger than the EU and US combined. I did not include countries like Russia or KSA which are strictly speaking allowed as per the OP even though they are quite high up in GDP PPP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... y_GDP_(PPP)

So its quite possible to have this Asian union the dominant economic force without resorting to overthrowing Western civilisation to do it. How you get such disparate countries to form this union, that is the interesting part.
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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-08 11:38pm

Not overthrowing Western civilizations to eventually establish a worldwide theocracy / dictatorship is boring though. Q didn't give me those powers for whimsy things like the Asian EU and peace, he wants to be entertained! I might as well try something*:

For theocracies:

1. Were it not for the big schisms between Shiites vs Sunnis for theocracies I'd suggest Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan: the first two provide the oil, while the ladder provides the nuclear deterrence.

2. I dunno, the Great Middle Eastern Union or something

3. Sharia law for the judiciary, Dictatorship for the rest. In many respects its like that already, so there isn't much to change.

4. As oil exports will be the biggest factor in the economies, a shared currency union would be fine.

5. Enticing other countries would be fairly straightforward: "you want to finally stand up to those Western Capitalist Pigs, drive them out of our lands and take over Israel? (albeit peacefully as per the OP)? Then join! Let's use their tools against them, we need an economic and political union!

6. Preferably the more Middle-Eastern dictatorships that are willing to join, the better! It's better to have a United Middle East then let the infidels divide and conquer! If the Middle-East ever united, that's a lot of oil that would be under their control (and decent amounts of other resources like uranium).

7. A) Anti-Western B) Preferably in a state (though not necessarily) where Sharia Law is already well established. Pakistan is a must since without nuclear deterrence the West would definitely try to break up any unions via force.

8. Big problem is that the disputes tend to be over religious grounds, one would hope that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" would be sufficient enough.

9. Already mostly there with Sharia Law, which is all the law that is needed!

10. All followers of Islam have citizenship and may travel freely. Others can convert of leave. Simple. Common market internally, form trade agreements to export oil / resources to other countries. While Western countries would certainly try to form some kind of embargo, others like China might not care so much. Massive oil reserves could be used as a bargaining chip to reduce western influence as much as possible (again, peacefully).

11. Given the above, I don't think so.

12. Shouldn't be much of a refugee crisis if the Middle-Eastern nations were to stop fighting each other and focus on driving out the West, then keeping them out. Minus WW3 of course.

Long term goal is total conversion of the world to Islam and Sharia Law of course, though that might take longer than the scenario permits.

This version is probably going to cause some major conflicts (if not WW3), though so long as my countries are not the aggressors by instigating the conflicts, that's permitted by the OP.

* I shouldn't have to point this out but I will anyways- I don't actually support any of this in real life. Remotely. Also note that this isn't some anti-Islam shtick - were it western countries I'd be picking the USA for pretty much the same reasons, as its a powerful country which is heading towards a dictatorship and trying to purge religious minorities- of course I'd totally try to use it to take over the world to establish a theocratic dictatorship! I'm trying to think of Asian theocracies which also have fairly substantial military / economic power. And I want to see if they'd have a chance of actually trying to overthrow western civilization, or at least eliminating it's influence in their borders. If you can think of a more effective theocratic combo for this scenario that's even better.
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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-02-09 01:53am

Interesting. I wonder how a middle eastern union would compete against the bigger economies of the EU and US. They would presumably play the game Russia is playing now, using energy as a bargaining tool because they can't possibly match the EU directly in terms of $$$$.
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1. Which three countries would initially form the union?

China I choose you. India I choose you. Japan I choose you.

Come on, the 3 countries who are the biggest and most likely to conflict. With the powers given to me by Q I can make all the leaders engage in bromance and not fight.

Obviously they start off as a with a free trade agreement rather than becoming a single country, as that would be unpalatable to the citizens. Give me decades of prosperity, free movement (to be introduced eventually) and tighter economic integration, a stint as a confederation for decades and then we can talk about federation.

2. What would you call this confederation / eventual federation

The Asian Union. To the point without the need to sound grandiose.

3. How do you get the countries to integrate with different governments. For example the PRC and Japan have different governments, how do you deal with this. Some EU parliament clone?

This is a tricky one. I think the best way is for all countries to eventually democratise when they have reached high income level, say Taiwan equivalent of GDP/capita indexed to inflation.

Initially it will be a trade agreement like how the EEC is, so there is no need for a parliament per se. Eventually I will set up a body to better organise trade between the countries and facilitate new members. This will eventually morph into a parliament, like the European one, but we will still be a confederation at this point.

4. Will you introduce a common currency? Can you get eventual political union without one? If you want a common currency, how do you avoid the problems plaguing the Euro with countries of different economic strength being bound to the same currency?

A common currency (with limitations) will be introduced when China reaches a comparable GDP / capita to Taiwan. Why China? Well because once it reaches a decent income level, it would slow down its rate of growth. I picked Taiwan as a ballpark figure. Why is China slowing down important? Lets have a look at the Euro. Simplistically the economies which adopted it were quite different in economic strengths and development. Greece should not get German rates of interest, and it wouldn't, if both kept their currencies. However since they were both in the Euro, we get that problem and financial crisis.

So back to China case, a common currency would have the same problem if it was spread out over different countries with different economic development. Asia has quite a wide range of differences between GDP / capita, much more so than Europe. Even if China was to join a common currency with another Asian country with equivalent GDP/ capita (ie upper middle income as per world bank definition) it might soon outgrow the other country especially if that fails to escape the dreaded middle income trap. So we have to wait until the biggest Asian economy is not growing as such a frantic pace.

Once then, we can add other members to the mix with similar GDP / capita. Next up is India eventually and since I control their leaders... Once all members are reasonably similar in GDP/capita, we can spread the currency to other members.



5. How do you entice other countries to join?

Economic growth. Free trade deals. Funding via the Asian Union development bank at "friendship" rates. :lol: There will be a cost though. Free trade deals are negotiated via the central commission with input from all members. You cannot start a war, you can only fight in self defense. Economic growth is our priority damn it.

Also all countries will start sharing intelligence as to fight terrorism, another incentive to join - stability against the threads plaguing governments.

6. Which countries do you want to join? Which ones do you definitely not want to join? Can you have a union powerful enough economically to challenge the EU without some of the big Asian countries?

Aside from the big 3, the next expansion should be Pakistan (to decrease tensions with India) South Korea, and ASEAN. Eventually move to the central Asian states and Russia and subsume the Eurasian Union. I would consider Australia too at a later date once the Asian Union has become the biggest economy and trading block.

Of the middle eastern countries, perhaps Iran since they have observer status in SCO, but the Arab states would be too different to integrate. Israel would be another one to avoid, or join with care since it carries with it a lot of diplomatic baggage.

7. What are the criteria for joining countries?

Not being in an active conflict at the time. So Russia is out for the time being.

One member state cannot attack another, or else the rest will smack that member down. And I control the big 3.

8. How do you solve the pre-existing disputes between members?

Japan's government apologises for WWII atrocities, starts compensating the victims and no longer approves text books denying WWII crimes. Since most Japanese allegedly aren't deniers, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Territorial disputes are mentioned only in the vaguest of terms when questioned by media and swept under the metaphorical carpet. The central commission pushes for joint custodian over the Spratley's, China maintains control of the Paracels (like they are now). Taiwan and China reunification is not a big issue once they form the glorious Asian union.

India and Pakistan's dispute over Kashmir is swept under the rug or an autonomous Kashmir answering to both is set up.

9. Will you set up an equivalent to European court and parliament while the union is still in the Confederation stage?

Yep. Eventually.

10. What are the rules governing things like movement of people between members, trade between members (do you have a common market), trade with other Asian countries which aren't members of your union?

Common market which gives better deals to members than those who aren't as an enticement to join. Free movement of people would eventually occur when the GDP / capita is less of an issue, so we don't empty out low income countries (eg Cambodia) for high income ones (Singapore, Japan).

11. Will you create a Eurovision clone for Asia? :D What would its rules be?
Why not? Lets call it Asia vision. You can sing in any official or unofficial language, so English is a go if Singapore joins. :D Voting by special judges with half the points, and phone polls for the other. You cannot vote for your own country, and songs have not been performed before like Eurovision. Anti booing tech for the win.

12. How will you cope with the refugee crisis, particularly from Syria?

Since I don't plan to include those countries in the near future, this problem may have been fixed by the time I might consider them joining.

13. How will you deal with the Eurasian union. Will you get Russia and the Stans to join? Or just pinch a few members from them?
Subsume them with better economic deals.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to.
Australia, Canada, China, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Malaysia, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.

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Re: Asian Union RAR

Postby Adam Reynolds » 2017-02-09 03:14am

If I am going for ambition, I would get this improbable alliance to begin to colonize Mars. If we can use our momentum to leverage NASA and the ESA to join us, even better.

No idea what even the first step would be, but it is a nice objective at least. Certainly better than attempting to create a global caliphate.


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