Are demilitarizED military tanks and APCs unarmoured?

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U.P. Cinnabar
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Re: Are demilitarizED military tanks and APCs unarmoured?

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

LaCroix wrote:They are actually pretty fast - 70km/h max. And they can do this in almost any terrain... :D
Weren't some of these made for agricultural use postwar?
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Re: Are demilitarizED military tanks and APCs unarmoured?

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Yeah but only in short term pure desperation to rebuild the German economy. Germany was starving in the years right after the war. The damn thing weighs 3,500lb and actually did fairly badly on soft ground. It's main point was to be physically compact for air drop and then tow an AT gun or mortar. Then Hitler was showed it in the winter of 1941 as 'the solution' to the Russian conditions and a whole lot of extra ones got built.
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Re: Are demilitarizED military tanks and APCs unarmoured?

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

Sea Skimmer wrote:Yeah but only in short term pure desperation to rebuild the German economy. The damn thing weighs 3,500lb and actually did fairly badly on soft ground. It's main point was to be physically compact for air drop. Then Hitler was showed it in the winter of 1941 as 'the solution' to the Russian conditions and a whole lot of extra ones got built.
And, how many of those survived the Russian terrain, I wonder? Equally, how many were appropriated by the Soviets?
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Re: Are demilitarizED military tanks and APCs unarmoured?

Post by Lord Revan »

I suspect not many for both accounts as Soviets had one of the best armored vehicles during that time they didn't need to repurpose german hardware, also they got trucks and tractors from the US. the problem the germans faced in Russia was twofold really during fall/spring the rains made terrain so muddy that german tanks/trucks got stuck and during winter everything froze since the german equipment wasn't designed for winter conditions (not mention that Hitler didn't want german industry to make winter clothes for the soldiers, you can imagine how well that worked out).
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Re: Are demilitarizED military tanks and APCs unarmoured?

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Lord Revan wrote:I suspect not many for both accounts as Soviets had one of the best armored vehicles during that time they didn't need to repurpose german hardware, also they got trucks and tractors from the US.
The Soviets used every captured thing they could short term, and could not fully equip their forces until 1943. In fact the Soviets went so far as to begin rebuilding captured Panzer III hulls into 76mm tank destroyers similar to the Stug, as they had hundreds of the things, though by the time any serious number were produced it was a bit of a waste.

Lack of spare parts of course made most typical use short lived, though IIRC Panzer IVs were also converted into ARVs on a small scale.

the problem the germans faced in Russia was twofold really during fall/spring the rains made terrain so muddy that german tanks/trucks got stuck and during winter everything froze since the german equipment wasn't designed for winter conditions (not mention that Hitler didn't want german industry to make winter clothes for the soldiers, you can imagine how well that worked out).
Soviet stuff had its own problems, they seem to have used the same tactic the Germans had to learn of building a fire under engine crank cases in the worst weather. A real big problem for Germany was they invaded with 400 different models of trucks, making it rather hard to predict how any given unit would be able to handle the mud. Some of these vehicles were excellent, most were impressed civilian gear.

Also the roads simply could not support sustained advances, all of one entire paved road existed going Poland to Moscow, meaning thousands of trucks turned them into mud so deep absolutely no vehicle could pass (have to throw logs in the holes) and one will note this held up Soviet counter offensives too. The winter clothing thing has become more then a bit myth based, the reality was not Hitler doing anything specific, but simply that by the winter of 1941 the German supply lines were so bad it was impossible to bring up the clothing that had been stockpiled quickly. Ammo and fuel shipments had almost ceased and were rather absolutely important to avoiding the entire collapse of Army Group Center. Which almost happened anyway, really it did not only because the winter got so bad the Russians couldn't pursue with with most of their forces either.

And the forward units, having lost 75,000 trucks in a couples months, were in no position to have carried that stuff with themselves earlier. If they had it would have all gotten lost and ruined.
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