Thought Germs - This video will make you angry

[Adam Reynolds]

This is an interesting idea. Especially considering the origins of this board.

[Raw Shark]

You are a good germ vector, but the video didn't make me angry. I want my $0 back!

[Grumman]

Yes, that video did make me angry. I didn't watch it, but I'm angry that you posted a stupid OP with no content and the expectation that we watch a video instead of you just telling us what it's about.

[muse]

Right. So where would be the best place to post this photo for maximum internet rage?

[Purple]

You mean grownups don't look like barbie and he-man?

[Simon_Jester]

He-Man at least isn't supposed to be walking around in every day environments doing normal day to day stuff. Girls are encouraged to dress up Barbie figures as teachers and doctors and executives and so on- people you actually meet, with the implication that Barbie is someone you might meet, and the implication that she is 'realistic.'

He-Man occupies a completely imaginary world full of wizards and monsters. You are never going to meet him, or anyone like him. So it is easier to 'outgrow' the expectation that you will ever, ever see anyone like him.

[And for that matter, He-Man's physique is more attainable for men than Barbie's is for women; all you have to do to be He-Man is devote literally your entire life to bodybuilding and (probably) focus on bulking up your muscles regardless of physical strength. To become Barbie takes surgery- and would probably require relocating a bunch of your internal organs.]

[Purple]

I think that the point he is trying to make is that the vast majority of males who grew up watching He-Man did not in fact turn into muscle obsessed steroid abusing body builders with an inadequacy complex because they don't look like their hero and most girls can be expected to have at least the same level of common sense. Especially since for males this ideal is as you already said almost reachable where as for girls it would require some rather invasive surgery. So the temptation is for us much closer than it is for them.

[Channel72]

He-Man sucks anyway. All real men should aspire to be ThunderCats instead.

But anyway, another difference here is that women in general still face more social pressure to appear thin and beautiful, and the idea is that Barbie dolls sort of reinforce this at a young age. (But like, so do most pop-culture products aimed at young girls, like every Disney Princess ever ...). Men face different sorts of pressures in modern society, but appearing like He-Man is definitely not one of them.

So ... what is this thread about now?

[Darmalus]

So ... what is this thread about now?

If we wanted to talk about the video, we'd be talking about how many groups spend more time talking to each other about their concept of the opposing side, rather than actually engaging the other side to see if it's a reality. Additional conversation about how the "with us or against us" tends to destroy any moderate positions and possibly relating it to the "political balkanization" of many modern social movements,

Or toys, toys are cool too. I had this green and yellow tiger toy as a kid I just loved to death.

[Zixinus]

To bite the bait a bit, I think that the video does describe Stardestroyer.net a bit as well or at least grew from such confrontations. The non-forum site is actually a collection of Wong's various rants and arguments about various debates. It is interesting that it actually tries to rise above that by actively asking for confrontation from the "enemy" side.

[Starglider]

It is interesting that it actually tries to rise above that by actively asking for confrontation from the "enemy" side.

Arguments about which sci-fi ship is better are explicitly for entertainment purposes, they couldn't really be anything else as there are no real world consequences. Naturally if you enjoy abstract debate about fantasy universes you are going to want opponents.

Political, cultural and religious issues are a different situation, many if not most people argue about those not because they enjoy it (or at least, so they believe) but out of a sense of moral obligation, to validate their self-worth and self-identity etc. There definitely are real-world outcomes to taking positions on these issues.

[Temjin]

Yeah, I watched the video. Found myself bored almost to tears. I was expecting something more than just a slight expansion upon Meme Theory.

[Joun_Lord]

Arguments about which sci-fi ship is better are explicitly for entertainment purposes, they couldn't really be anything else as there are no real world consequences. Naturally if you enjoy abstract debate about fantasy universes you are going to want opponents.

Political, cultural and religious issues are a different situation, many if not most people argue about those not because they enjoy it (or at least, so they believe) but out of a sense of moral obligation, to validate their self-worth and self-identity etc. There definitely are real-world outcomes to taking positions on these issues.

The problem is even these sci-fi debates get just as heated, just as hateful as those other debates. People get just as invested and put just as much of their self identity into them aswell. I mean look at some of the worst of the Star Wars vs Star Trek debate. Look at people that even today would describe SDnet as immoral for not agreeing with their side. Idiots like that idjit who created a SDnet must die facebook page. People who don't see the people one the others side as just opponents they disagree with but true enemies worthy of contempt and hate akin to what any normal person might feel towards racists, Republicans towards Democrats, and Team Jacob vs Edward.

Or the Karen Traviss/minimalism debate that shook the Star Wars EU community, made enemies of long time friends even on here (was a couple bans related to the Talifan mess if I recall correctly). Hate and death threats abounded on both sides (including garroting) all because of some hack writer who couldn't into math.

People get just as invested in magic space ships and pew pews as real world problem and will take it as just as much of a personal insult if you say "Star Trek sucks" (even if you didn't) as someone will if you can them a racial epithet (even if you didn't). First world problems I guess.

[Grumman]

Or the Karen Traviss/minimalism debate that shook the Star Wars EU community, made enemies of long time friends even on here (was a couple bans related to the Talifan mess if I recall correctly). Hate and death threats abounded on both sides (including garroting) all because of some hack writer who couldn't into math.

The reason people get up in arms about Traviss is not her minimalism but why she was a minimalist: her apologism for Order 66. "It's physically impossible for the Separatists to have built so many clones, so the Clone Wars must be a big Jedi plot (so it's okay that the Clone Troopers murdered them all)." "My pet character leaped in to take the bullet as a group of children defended themselves from the Clone Troopers (so it's okay that the Clone Troopers murdered them all)." "This Clone Trooper says they were just following a lawful order to betray and kill the Jedi (so it's okay that the Clone Troopers murdered them all)." "Not hating fictional people for being more capable than ordinary humans makes you a Nazi (so it's okay that the Clone Troopers murdered them all)."

Being a bad author is one thing, explicitly advocating the extermination of anyone better than you in the name of equality is insanity straight out of Harrison Bergeron.

[Zixinus]

I kind of saw this actually in the Brony community. People made elaborate explanations about the setting and universe and background of the show, probably more elaborate and concrete than what the actual creators ever bothered to do. People got around building on that and when the show contradicted those assumptions and theories, there were always a few that were angry for that. Or angry for another aspect of the show. All these people wanted to talk about is how they are angry about something or other and it could take over a discussion.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The problem is even these sci-fi debates get just as heated, just as hateful as those other debates.

Right. There is a recent thread in the Star Trek forum here where one poster said something along the lines of, "I think I remember an episode of Voyager where .... [x happened]". Another poster immediately jumped on him and tore him apart, invoking debate rules, rules of logic, anecdotal evidence, blah blah blah. It can be very toxic.

[Channel72]

What do you expect? This entire BBS was designed by people interested in cultivating that sort of thing.

[General Zod]

He-Man at least isn't supposed to be walking around in every day environments doing normal day to day stuff. Girls are encouraged to dress up Barbie figures as teachers and doctors and executives and so on- people you actually meet, with the implication that Barbie is someone you might meet, and the implication that she is 'realistic.'

He-Man occupies a completely imaginary world full of wizards and monsters. You are never going to meet him, or anyone like him. So it is easier to 'outgrow' the expectation that you will ever, ever see anyone like him.

[And for that matter, He-Man's physique is more attainable for men than Barbie's is for women; all you have to do to be He-Man is devote literally your entire life to bodybuilding and (probably) focus on bulking up your muscles regardless of physical strength. To become Barbie takes surgery- and would probably require relocating a bunch of your internal organs.]

Becoming He-Man might require an unhealthy dose of steroid abuse if you don't already have a physical build that can support that kind of muscle mass.