In fiction, Asperger's equals insanity

[Adam Reynolds]

As someone who has been diagnosed with this, it is something that bothers me that I keep finding examples of antisocial characters that eventually come across as being outright insane.

This issue really came to me with the series Mr. Robot. It features Elliot, an extremely antisocial computer hacker, who is being recruited by a hacktivist collective with the mysterious leader Mr. Robot. Spoiler

It ends up being the Fight Club scenario in which Elliot actually is Mr. Robot. The person he seems to be talking to is a hallucination of his dead father.

Similar examples come from Community and Leverage(which I generally liked better than the above). In Community we have Abed* believing that the world is in stop motion and in another case that a game of Hot Lava is real. Leverage similarly always refers to Parker as crazy as she can rappel down the side of a building with ease but is completely incapable of having a normal conversation.

* Who is the only character on the list who is directly mentioned as having Asperger's in the show. I believe that actress who played Parker had mentioned she considered Parker to have Asperger's, but the show never did.

[Lord Revan]

well mental issues are generally depicted very poorly in fiction, based on how it's depicted in fiction you'd think that people with chronic depression either just need "get over it" and they're cured or are always suicidal, neither which is true and the first one is especially insulting as it makes light of a very realm problem. You can't just get over it when it's chronic depression or manic depressive, it's simply not possible, well you can be "cured" but that's a long and hard proces and more often then not it's simply treating the symptons then actually being able get rid of the underlying problem.

[Dartzap]

After the last three years supporting guys and girls on the AS...There are some fascinating, disturbing and downright hilarious variations in atypical behaviours I've encountered. Thankfully patient confidentiality saves me from inflicting 'em on you. Needless to say, the word 'spectrum' is very apt. I never saw such massive differences in my previous 'normal' mental health roles.

[GuppyShark]

I am no expert on the subject but I think Boston Legal did well with the lawyer whose name escapes me who was diagnosed with Aspergers after an outburst.

[Dartzap]

Although it's debated whether Turing was actually autistic, the performance by Cumberbatch in the Imitation Game was pretty spot on for the more stereotypical behaviors. He was grossly mistreated for his sexuality, rather than his asocical behaviour, after all.

[Eleas]

Gary from the series Alphas may not have Asperger's but he is certainly a high-functioning Autist. And on the whole, the series handles it quite respectfully.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Although it's debated whether Turing was actually autistic, the performance by Cumberbatch in the Imitation Game was pretty spot on for the more stereotypical behaviors. He was grossly mistreated for his sexuality, rather than his asocical behaviour, after all.

Ugh. That movie was outright fiction, and had nothing to do with Alan Turing or the Enigma decryption. Every minute of that film is best forgotten.

Since the topic seems to have evolved a bit, Sonya Cross (as played by Diane Kruger) in the American version of The Bridge was excellent. The fact that she's autistic is never explicitly brought up (though she clearly and obviously is), and combined with the excellent portrayal I was quite pleased. It simply becomes the idiosyncratic behavior that it is, rather than dwelling on being some horrible illness that must be cured and treated.

[loomer]

I am no expert on the subject but I think Boston Legal did well with the lawyer whose name escapes me who was diagnosed with Aspergers after an outburst.

Jerry Espensen, who also had OCD and Tourettes. They gave him one of the single most poignant lines about friendship I've ever heard, actually, and the actor delivered it perfectly.

"Friendships are a little like gardens... we plan to tend to them, we just always somehow put it off 'til next week."

[FaxModem1]

Sheldon Cooper, as played on Big Bang Theory, is considered by the actor to have Aspergers. Whether or not this counts as a valid interpretation, I'm not qualified to answer.

[Dartzap]

Sheldon Cooper, as played on Big Bang Theory, is considered by the actor to have Aspergers. Whether or not this counts as a valid interpretation, I'm not qualified to answer.

Certainly his discomfort at physical contact, superfluous conversation and being irritated by people not knowing the same thing as him matches up pretty well. The joke about him 'being tested, and I'm not crazy!!!' is a pretty common way of being diagnosed.

[Ahriman238]

Things have gotten a lot better. Off the top of my head, Extremely Close and Incredibly Loud had a fantastic portrayal of Aspergers. The kid's behavior made me think, 'likely Aspie' at some point he says there's a doctor who thinks he has it, but basically no one cares if he's autistic or just a little weird because for once the character's disability is not the entire point of the movie.

Also recommend Mozart and the Whale, a rom-com about two adult autistics (people keep forgetting they exist).

Second Gary from Alphas, the portrayal was great, the reactions of the rest of the cast were great. Damnit SciFi, why can't you let anything good continue?

[Bernkastel]

Yes, TV has plenty of problems in regards to those with mental health issues.

Well, I will also join those praising the character of Gary from Alphas. The acting for him and how he was handled by the show was very good.

[Simon_Jester]

Jerry Espensen, who also had OCD and Tourettes. They gave him one of the single most poignant lines about friendship I've ever heard, actually, and the actor delivered it perfectly.

"Friendships are a little like gardens... we plan to tend to them, we just always somehow put it off 'til next week."

Yes. To expand on this and give a brief character bio...

Basically, he showed up in the second season as a top-notch contract lawyer, then had a psychotic breakdown after being passed over for partnership with the implication that it was done because he was "weird."

He showed up again in the third season, having sought out treatment that included a fairly diverse range of things. Eventually he was even re-hired at the firm, and got together with another lawyer in, I believe, the fifth season.

I'm not sure whether to call him a positive role model, but he was clearly presented as a good man who did a lot of good things, except for the time he snapped and took a senior partner hostage.

[loomer]

I would. He's a successful lawyer, working in a field that is very difficult for a man with his disabilities and doing well despite or even because of them, while maintaining friendships even if it's difficult to do. The psychotic break is the only exception, and came only after years of abuse by the firm in the face of his extraordinary legal abilities.

[PREDATOR490]

The depiction of AS / Autism has always been wildly erratic which is understandable because unless you work in / around a LARGE selection of cases your unlikely to understand why it is considered a spectrum. Additionally, the distinction between Autism and Aspergers is not something that can be shown or defined easily.

Most depictions of AS end up following specific individuals with traits that serve the drama of the medium. In reality, outside of a documentary or reality show, it is going to be impossible to get a better depiction of AS because it is so vastly varied and drama precludes a more sensible approach.

The most common source of annoyance in depictions of AS is the wild extremes usually shown. AS either ends up giving you super powers or turns you into a socially dramatic mess.
While some individuals on the Spectrum can be Savants - This is not common
While some individuals on the Spectrum can have a laundry list of social interaction issues - The extent and characteristics are extremely varied.

It is a sad fact that you are unlikely to get characters that have very minor or subdued characteristics of AS because:
A) They cannot be used for comedy effect like Sheldon
B) They do not offer any real addition to the narrative of the story beyond trivia.

Not many people are going to care to know an AS character likes the color Red vs Green unless it causes them to go in wildly exaggerated state of murder frenzy.

[Simon_Jester]

The most common source of annoyance in depictions of AS is the wild extremes usually shown. AS either ends up giving you super powers or turns you into a socially dramatic mess.

Or both.

It is a sad fact that you are unlikely to get characters that have very minor or subdued characteristics of AS because:
A) They cannot be used for comedy effect like Sheldon
B) They do not offer any real addition to the narrative of the story beyond trivia.

Well, it's not like there aren't lots of fictional characters who pick up masses of trivial details about their lives that occasionally come up in conversation.

But on the whole you're right- and I think it's because we take autism seriously, we think of it as a Big Deal. So we either portray it as such, or not at all.

[Elheru Aran]

Honestly, if you think about it, characters played for comic effect like Sheldon Cooper... aren't actually all that funny in real life. Sheldon, IRL, would be seen as a highly irritating, antisocial jerk who somehow managed to avoid pissing off his college professors long enough to achieve his multiple degrees, and quite possibly would not be employed due to annoying all his employers fairly quickly by insulting their intelligence frequently. His character is mostly "let's laugh at the guy who exhibits various mental and personality issues in an amusing way"-- when stuff like constantly belittling people for not knowing scientific stuff, being extremely picky about what he eats, obsessive-compulsive disorder (albeit, as portrayed, probably a lesser case), and so forth, would not be amusing to anybody who had to deal with it in real life. Try telling people they're idiots for not knowing Fermat's theorem and see where that gets you.

The character of Sheldon may not be explicitly portrayed as insane-- but he's not very far from it, and is often enough shown as crossing the line, albeit temporarily. While he's amusing, it may be worth asking, is he amusing for the *right* reasons, or is he amusing because his problems are what make him amusing?

Of course I may be overthinking a kinda crappy half-hour sitcom with geek-cred produced by a classic sitcom guy that's been making shitty sitcoms for decades...

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Honestly, if you think about it, characters played for comic effect like Sheldon Cooper... aren't actually all that funny in real life. Sheldon, IRL, would be seen as a highly irritating, antisocial jerk who somehow managed to avoid pissing off his college professors long enough to achieve his multiple degrees, and quite possibly would not be employed due to annoying all his employers fairly quickly by insulting their intelligence frequently. His character is mostly "let's laugh at the guy who exhibits various mental and personality issues in an amusing way"-- when stuff like constantly belittling people for not knowing scientific stuff, being extremely picky about what he eats, obsessive-compulsive disorder (albeit, as portrayed, probably a lesser case), and so forth, would not be amusing to anybody who had to deal with it in real life. Try telling people they're idiots for not knowing Fermat's theorem and see where that gets you.

The character of Sheldon may not be explicitly portrayed as insane-- but he's not very far from it, and is often enough shown as crossing the line, albeit temporarily. While he's amusing, it may be worth asking, is he amusing for the *right* reasons, or is he amusing because his problems are what make him amusing?

Of course I may be overthinking a kinda crappy half-hour sitcom with geek-cred produced by a classic sitcom guy that's been making shitty sitcoms for decades...

Sheldon is fantastic.

Not necessarily for any reasons having to do with an analysis of the character's realism or humor, but for the simple reason that I can wear a Bazinga! shirt and suddenly my idiosyncrasies make a little more sense to other people.

[Elheru Aran]

[snip]
The character of Sheldon may not be explicitly portrayed as insane-- but he's not very far from it, and is often enough shown as crossing the line, albeit temporarily. While he's amusing, it may be worth asking, is he amusing for the *right* reasons, or is he amusing because his problems are what make him amusing?

Of course I may be overthinking a kinda crappy half-hour sitcom with geek-cred produced by a classic sitcom guy that's been making shitty sitcoms for decades...

Sheldon is fantastic.

Not necessarily for any reasons having to do with an analysis of the character's realism or humor, but for the simple reason that I can wear a Bazinga! shirt and suddenly my idiosyncrasies make a little more sense to other people.

There is that. The positive side of the character is that Jim Parsons' portrayal, and the show in general, has helped people understand geek culture and SOME aspects of what make geeks different from the general population. It is, to give the show some credit, a fairly sympathetic view.

Nevertheless, I maintain that using the character's issues for comedic material isn't necessarily helping advocate people with Asperger's or other autism spectrum disorders as much as it's making it "Oh, he's got Asperger's, he must be funny like Sheldon", when Sheldon isn't actually that funny in real life. He's the guy in the comic book store staring at you for flipping through a back issue that you picked out of the bin, the guy in the computer store who tells you randomly that you shouldn't buy that piece of hardware you're looking at and instead recommends another with complete authority even though he's not an employee, the person in a restaurant who makes a public scene because the food is touching on his plate, who tells his boss he's an idiot and recommends a totally different plan of action and then gets fired because while it may be true there are still consequences for saying it... Parodying legitimate mental health issues for comic effect doesn't strike me as a particularly constructive way to help.

[Block]

I'm pretty sure Elliott is paranoid schizophrenic with disassociatve disorder thrown in, not someone with Aspergers.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Nevertheless, I maintain that using the character's issues for comedic material isn't necessarily helping advocate people with Asperger's or other autism spectrum disorders as much as it's making it "Oh, he's got Asperger's, he must be funny like Sheldon", when Sheldon isn't actually that funny in real life. He's the guy in the comic book store staring at you for flipping through a back issue that you picked out of the bin, the guy in the computer store who tells you randomly that you shouldn't buy that piece of hardware you're looking at and instead recommends another with complete authority even though he's not an employee, the person in a restaurant who makes a public scene because the food is touching on his plate, who tells his boss he's an idiot and recommends a totally different plan of action and then gets fired because while it may be true there are still consequences for saying it... Parodying legitimate mental health issues for comic effect doesn't strike me as a particularly constructive way to help.

I guess I'll just have to disagree. I can see how the show can be construed to be negative, but I don't feel it. True, there are things that I could nitpick about it (such as the fact that all of the female characters, while "nerdy," are utterly dismissive of "boy" geekery like video games, Star Trek, comic books, etc; which is a view that I do think reinforces outdated stereotypes), but even then, I feel it's important to remember that these geeky and awkward characters, especially Sheldon, are ultimately the protagonists and as much as we're encouraged to laugh at them and their neuroses, in the end they are the heroes and not antagonists to be hated or feared.

In other words, I'm quite happy to be laughed at, particularly when decades of media have portrayed awkward or idiosyncratic people as "creepy" antagonists and thus something to fear rather than laugh about.

[Elheru Aran]

Yeah, it's a turn-around in the typical depiction, which is good, and overall the show is a positive cultural influence. I just have issues with the specific depiction of Asperger's/ASD in the show.

[madd0ct0r]

I guess it's a similar arc as depictions of gay men in comedies, from screaming camp to will and grace

[Simon_Jester]

Of course I may be overthinking a kinda crappy half-hour sitcom with geek-cred produced by a classic sitcom guy that's been making shitty sitcoms for decades...

I think Sheldon is amusing to geeks because many geeks at least empathize with Sheldon. We've all thought "what, are you an idiot" about somebody who doesn't know a relatively obscure thing that we think of as obvious or well-known. We've all had some of the impulses Sheldon acts on. It's just that Sheldon lacks the restraint that stops a neurotypical (and geeky) person from acting that way, and exhibits all these behaviors to parodic levels.

[Raw Shark]

Yes, that. I find Sheldon very entertaining because I have tried to train myself to not express my issues the way he does, but find myself nodding when he says things like, "relationship contract," anyway sometimes, and especially laugh at that episode where Priya beats him at his own game. Don't get casually legalistic with an actual lawyer and expect to not get your ass handed to you, no matter how smart and pedantic you are.