Jeremy Clarkson suspended from Top Gear

[Flagg]

Before we start I want to make clear that I can and will not defend Clarkson in regard to attempting to punch a person. That's just stupid, immature and other stuff. However I do have something to say about the overall comments in this thread.

Anyone who complains about Clarkson being a racist or offensive or what ever else is missing the point of the show in its entirety. That man, or rather that character as he is the entire appeal of the show. It's the same story as with the Colbert Report. Colbert is a massively exaggerated parody of republicans. And that's what makes him funny. Same here. It's supposed to be comedy through exaggeration. His words bring joy to us, his fans by combining laughter with a shock factor (Oh my god! Did he actually just say that?!!). That's what makes him cool.

Any complaints against him in this respect are simply another case of activists hell bent making sure no one gets offended ever being willing to ruin other peoples fun for it. If you don't like him, don't watch the show. But instead you go out of the way to ruin it for the rest of us who are not hypersensitive. And that's just wrong.

*spit*

Go fuck yourself you stupid twat. He's been saying racist shit for as long as anyone has given a fuck what he says, so if it's an act it's one he does so good he's a bigger piece of shit for using such talents to spread hatred and ignorance.

[Thanas]

Yeah, his jokes about Nazi Germany and Poland were far over the line.

[Borgholio]

Yeah, his jokes about Nazi Germany and Poland were far over the line.

I don't recall what he said about that, but knowing him it must have been ugly.

[Thanas]

During the first episode of series seven, a news segment featuring BMW's MINI Concept from the Tokyo Motor Show showcased a car that Hammond quoted as supposedly being "quintessentially British", the only added feature being an integrated tea set. Clarkson responded by mocking the car, claiming that they should build a car that is "quintessentially German". He suggested turn signals that displayed Hitler salutes, "a sat-nav that only goes to Poland" (..) and "ein fanbelt that will last a thousand years"

During the final episode of series 13, Clarkson and May were assigned to produce a spoof advert for the new Volkswagen Scirocco. However, one of their spoof ads saw crowds of people leaving Warsaw in terror on buses and trains, because of the imminent German invasion of Poland. At the end of the advert, Clarkson announced "Volkswagen Scirocco TDI: Berlin to Warsaw in one tank"'.

Yep. Real sensitive, that one.

[Purple]

It's just a joke. I actually found it to be quite funny. I really do not see what the problem is with people who get offended by absolutely everything. Seriously, I will newer understand the sort of self-righteous people who get upset at just about anything that is not 100% picture perfect politically correct.

[Thanas]

It's just a joke. I actually found it to be quite funny. I really do not see what the problem is with people who get offended by absolutely everything.

Okay, so the following would be fair game to you:

X claimed that they should build a car that is "quintessentially american". He suggested turn signals that displayed lynchings, "a sat-nav that only shows slave trade routes to Africa" (..) and "depictions of slave-whippings and the genocide against native americans."

Yeah, good job trying to show that people would not be offended by that. And don't pretend that this was some one-off joke. One time, maybe. But repeat it several times when you well know the blowback to the first one? That's malice.

[Darksider]

Is Clarkson one of those types of people who will respond to criticism of a joke for racism/sexism/etc. by doubling down and making more jokes because fuck you you can't control what I say?

I know lots of people like that IRL and that's what the Nazi jokes come off as.

[Thanas]

Is Clarkson one of those types of people who will respond to criticism of a joke for racism/sexism/etc. by doubling down and making more jokes because fuck you you can't control what I say?

I know lots of people like that IRL and that's what the Nazi jokes come off as.

Yeah and he's got a mega ego problem as well.

[bilateralrope]

The more information that comes out about the fracas, the worse Clarkson's behaviour sounds.

Jeremy Clarkson's Top Gear row: Did it start over a steak?

Jeremy Clarkson has given his biggest hint that he is ready to walk out on the BBC as witnesses revealed he was suspended after a ridiculous row over a steak.

The presenter is being threatened with the sack after an apparent "dust-up" with one of his producers, Oisin Tymon, over being offered only a "cold platter" for dinner at a luxury hotel.

According to a witness, Clarkson demanded a £21.95 sirloin steak from the restaurant menu after a long day of filming and became irate when he was told that the hotel's chef had gone home.

One said: "It was suggested he could have a cheese platter, a meat platter, soup, or another bar snack, but he was not having it."

The millionaire changed his Twitter profile to read "I am probably a presenter on the BBC2 motoring show Top Gear".

He was asked last night if he feared the sack and said: "Well it's coming, isn't it?"

Twenty-four hours ago his biography said: "I am a presenter on the BBC2 motoring show, Top Gear."

More than 700,000 fans have signed an online petition demanding the presenter be reinstated, and Prime Minister David Cameron has waded into the row, saying he hoped it could be 'sorted out' without the BBC sacking him.

Last night Mr Clarkson was seen venting his frustration at Chelsea's Champions League match and is likely to be hauled before the BBC's disciplinary panel by the end of the week.

The BBC launched an investigation into the incident on Tuesday, five days after the "fracas", and pulled the last three episodes of this series of Top Gear off air.

Stars including Gary Lineker, Keanu Reeves and Superman actor Henry Cavill were all due to film the "Star in a reasonably priced car" segment in the coming weeks but have been told these have been "postponed indefinitely".

The BBC could face a huge bill from the foreign broadcasters it sells the show to for failing to deliver a full series.

Last night sources at the BBC suggested that its director of TV, Danny Cohen, has seized on the incident as the reason he needs to oust the controversial figure.

Insiders have said that Mr Cohen, who will help decide Clarkson's fate, is "out to get" the star.

Director General Tony Hall has refused to speculate on Jeremy Clarkson's future and said the BBC's internal investigation would "get the people who are impacted by this together".

He said: "There is a lot of speculation, we have got to establish the facts and I intend to do that before we come to a final decision. That is what we are about to do."

The star has admitted there was "handbags and pushing" over the incident, which took place at Simonstone Hall Hotel in North Yorkshire, but denies claims that he punched Mr Tymon.

The production team had been scheduled to take a helicopter to their next location after filming, and return to the hotel at 8pm last Wednesday.

However, Clarkson kept the helicopter waiting for three hours while he sat in a pub drinking rose wine, Channel 4 reported.

Co-star James May said: "I have said many times before the man is a knob, but I quite like him. It's all getting a bit ridiculous."

Asked what he could remember about the row, May said: "Not very much, I was blind drunk."

Dinner service was cancelled by kitchen staff because the crew were two hours late. Clarkson is then understood to have become embroiled in a row about the dinner with Mr Tymon, whom he blamed for the mix-up.

One witness said Clarkson had wanted a sirloin steak with fondant potatoes, pan-fried wild mushrooms, grilled cherry tomatoes and pink peppercorn sauce for £21.95.

Instead he and the other BBC staff were offered a pre-prepared cold platter or something from the bar menu like soup of the day, which led to the presenter ranting: "So there's no food?," one onlooker said.

He told the Daily Mirror: "When they arrived after 10pm Clarkson got angry.

"We were surprised at his reaction because we were all thinking 'surely soup is food'."

"It was more like a scuffle. But he did swear using every bad word you could think of."

In the end the general manager cooked the Top Gear star a steak himself, which he ate in a private dining room.

The BBC had taken all 18 rooms at the hotel for a week, costing £5600, with Clarkson, James May and Richard Hammond being given the suites and production crew getting the rest.

One worker told The Times: "When Jeremy Clarkson left he thanked us for a nice stay, and said, 'It's been really pleasant, apart from the obvious'. I would describe his behaviour as a child's tantrum rather than anything violent."

Director general Lord Hall said that he will have personal oversight of the investigation, and will decide what to do with Clarkson "based on the facts".

He said: "I am a fan of Jeremy Clarkson but this is a serious thing that is alleged to have taken place."

Mr Cameron said yesterday: "He's a huge talent. Because he is such a huge talent and he amuses and entertains so many people, including my children, who'd be heartbroken if Top Gear was taken off air, I hope this can be sorted out."

Clarkson doesn't seem to like receiving consequences for his actions.

[Thanas]

He's a rich asshole who didn't want to face the fact that the world does not revolve around him. That is all this is, people having the audacity to say no to him. Good riddance.

[Flagg]

A lot of people don't realize that the British pay a special TV tax that funds the BBC. So as a taxpayer funded broadcaster, the BBC is obligated not to fucking air hate speech or put up with 7 foot tall babies. The fact that he alone actually got a steak cooked special for him and still complained despite everyone else eating cold food and whatever warm soups they had shows that he's an entitled self absorbed twat who unfortunately never met his end during his antics on Top Gear. He should be exiled to Saint Helena.

[Raw Shark]

It's just a joke. I actually found it to be quite funny. I really do not see what the problem is with people who get offended by absolutely everything.

Okay, so the following would be fair game to you:

X claimed that they should build a car that is "quintessentially american". He suggested turn signals that displayed lynchings, "a sat-nav that only shows slave trade routes to Africa" (..) and "depictions of slave-whippings and the genocide against native americans."

[snip]

You're off to a good start, but if we could work in Giles Corey getting crushed with big rocks for suspicion of witchcraft, preferably between the pentagram LED brake lights from that article about outrage over the school bus, that would be tits.

[Zaune]

X claimed that they should build a car that is "quintessentially american". He suggested turn signals that displayed lynchings, "a sat-nav that only shows slave trade routes to Africa" (..) and "depictions of slave-whippings and the genocide against native americans."

That's actually not a lot more offensive than some of what Clarkson and his cronies pulled when they did some filming in the Confederacy.

[Balrog]

X claimed that they should build a car that is "quintessentially american". He suggested turn signals that displayed lynchings, "a sat-nav that only shows slave trade routes to Africa" (..) and "depictions of slave-whippings and the genocide against native americans."

If the delivery was good that would be passible, but I'd be confident they would come up with something just as offensive but even more hilarious.

[Mr Bean]

X claimed that they should build a car that is "quintessentially american". He suggested turn signals that displayed lynchings, "a sat-nav that only shows slave trade routes to Africa" (..) and "depictions of slave-whippings and the genocide against native americans."

If the delivery was good that would be passible, but I'd be confident they would come up with something just as offensive but even more hilarious.

He'd make that joke and I'd laugh because I can laugh at myself having been issued a sense of humor at birth. Jeremy Clarkson has always been an unrepentant asshole and racist and mostly proud of both. His only issue has been his growing ego and how much less over time he's playing Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson and has just become Jeremy Clarkson.

[Iroscato]

I've never really minded Clarkson's humour - hell at times I applaud him for taking the piss as much as he can - but throwing a strop and assaulting people like he reportedly did is way out of fucking line. Ratings goldmine or no, he needs to pay the price.

[Purple]

Yeah, good job trying to show that people would not be offended by that.

Why would I need to do that? It's shock comedy. It's supposed to be funny because it's so over the top offensive that it loops back. It's the same as dead baby comedy. And yes, that's a thing. It is as others here have said, I happen to have a sense of humor. And my sense of humor happens to like the kind of jokes he makes. It's not for everyone of course. Humor is up to personal taste. But it does not mean you should cast hate on anyone whose jokes you find unfunny or try to get him banned or punished (or make him apologize) for making them. Certainly no more than you would at a cook whose meals you dislike because it's technically great but it's a meat dish and you are vegetarian.

Obviously though again, not going to defend his violent behavior. One is an act, the other is the actual man. And whilst I like the act, I can't really defend the actor at this point.

[Flagg]

Yeah, good job trying to show that people would not be offended by that.

Why would I need to do that? It's shock comedy. It's supposed to be funny because it's so over the top offensive that it loops back. It's the same as dead baby comedy. And yes, that's a thing. It is as others here have said, I happen to have a sense of humor. And my sense of humor happens to like the kind of jokes he makes. It's not for everyone of course. Humor is up to personal taste. But it does not mean you should cast hate on anyone whose jokes you find unfunny or try to get him banned or punished (or make him apologize) for making them. Certainly no more than you would at a cook whose meals you dislike because it's technically great but it's a meat dish and you are vegetarian.

Obviously though again, not going to defend his violent behavior. One is an act, the other is the actual man. And whilst I like the act, I can't really defend the actor at this point.

So it's OK to say racist shit both on the show (and if it remained only on the show I could believe it was an act) and in interviews that have nothing to do with the show since the time anyone has given a shit about your opinion (which essentially means it's not an act, stupid) as long as it's "Shock Comedy"?

I have a suggestion for you if you want to test this theory out. Go to Berlin, put on full Nazi regalia under a trench coat until reaching your destination, and march in a circle around the Brandenburg Gate shouting "Heil Hitler!" while giving the Nazi solute and occasionally singing bits of Deutschland Uber Alles and see how well that "Shock Comedy" works out for you when about 30 seconds after you pull off the trench coat exposing your costume and shouting "Heil Hitler" with that classic solute a few times before the Berlin Police (or would it be a national German police force guarding it, Thanas?) take you down HARD (and for once I'd look the other way if they beat your ass bloody) and throw you in prison for a few years. Now that would be fucking hilarious.

[Mr Bean]

Flagg I like your joke but I think your punchline is a bit weak, specifically it does not have one yet. Lets try some modifications, first up it's a bit on the nose with the Hitler thing, lets replace our theoretical nazi regalia soldier with a hat wearing, iron cross equipped, marshals baton waving bear who goes up to random Berliners and asks them HEIL are you doing before passing out free Hitler head shaped chocolate or something.
Because that's an attempt at a joke Flagg, I don't expect it's the best joke in the world or even a good one but it's a damn attempt at joke.

[Borgholio]

That's actually not a lot more offensive than some of what Clarkson and his cronies pulled when they did some filming in the Confederacy.

If you're referring to the incident where they painted the cars full of pro-gay slogans, that doesn't really count. Those troglodyte hicks who literally threw rocks at them because they hate gays deserve to be offended. Yes it was stupid to drive through that part of the country with "Manlove forever" painted on their cars, but I have no sympathy for the mouth-breathers who were offended by that.

[Purple]

So it's OK to say racist shit both on the show (and if it remained only on the show I could believe it was an act) and in interviews that have nothing to do with the show since the time anyone has given a shit about your opinion (which essentially means it's not an act, stupid) as long as it's "Shock Comedy"?

As long as it is within the realm of the persona acted on the show, yes. As in, interviews relating to the show or really anything where he is acting within the realms of said persona. Outside of it of course not.

We simply must separate the two. One can be a perfectly terrible person IRL but also terribly entertaining at the same time. And the same behavior displayed in different situations can and must be judged differently. It's all in the context.

I have a suggestion for you if you want to test this theory out. Go to Berlin, put on full Nazi regalia under a trench coat until reaching your destination, and march in a circle around the Brandenburg Gate shouting "Heil Hitler!" while giving the Nazi solute and occasionally singing bits of Deutschland Uber Alles and see how well that "Shock Comedy" works out for you when about 30 seconds after you pull off the trench coat exposing your costume and shouting "Heil Hitler" with that classic solute a few times before the Berlin Police (or would it be a national German police force guarding it, Thanas?) take you down HARD (and for once I'd look the other way if they beat your ass bloody) and throw you in prison for a few years. Now that would be fucking hilarious.

What are you trying to demonstrate here? That German law is overly sensitive and negatively inclined toward free speech in this regard? Well you have succeeded at that. But that's about it. Remember, you may not judge what is and is not comedy based on your personal taste or that of others, lawmakers included.

[Flagg]

Flagg I like your joke but I think your punchline is a bit weak, specifically it does not have one yet. Lets try some modifications, first up it's a bit on the nose with the Hitler thing, lets replace our theoretical nazi regalia soldier with a hat wearing, iron cross equipped, marshals baton waving bear who goes up to random Berliners and asks them HEIL are you doing before passing out free Hitler head shaped chocolate or something.
Because that's an attempt at a joke Flagg, I don't expect it's the best joke in the world or even a good one but it's a damn attempt at joke.

It wasn't so much a joke as a serious suggestion considering that Purple is so dumb he may try it.

[Flagg]

So it's OK to say racist shit both on the show (and if it remained only on the show I could believe it was an act) and in interviews that have nothing to do with the show since the time anyone has given a shit about your opinion (which essentially means it's not an act, stupid) as long as it's "Shock Comedy"?

As long as it is within the realm of the persona acted on the show, yes. As in, interviews relating to the show or really anything where he is acting within the realms of said persona. Outside of it of course not.

Said persona should be shed because this is the 21st century and casual racism is a bit more than frowned upon.

We simply must separate the two. One can be a perfectly terrible person IRL but also terribly entertaining at the same time. And the same behavior displayed in different situations can and must be judged differently. It's all in the context.

Umm, not really getting the context of racism in a show about cars. Though I agree with you that context is a big part of it. For instance, using the n-word to make a racist joke is not funny in any circumstances. But using the n-word in a joke satirizing, parodying, or condemning racism may be acceptable. Those were not the kind of racist "jokes" Clarkson was and will again I'm sure, telling.

I have a suggestion for you if you want to test this theory out. Go to Berlin, put on full Nazi regalia under a trench coat until reaching your destination, and march in a circle around the Brandenburg Gate shouting "Heil Hitler!" while giving the Nazi solute and occasionally singing bits of Deutschland Uber Alles and see how well that "Shock Comedy" works out for you when about 30 seconds after you pull off the trench coat exposing your costume and shouting "Heil Hitler" with that classic solute a few times before the Berlin Police (or would it be a national German police force guarding it, Thanas?) take you down HARD (and for once I'd look the other way if they beat your ass bloody) and throw you in prison for a few years. Now that would be fucking hilarious.

What are you trying to demonstrate here? That German law is overly sensitive and negatively inclined toward free speech in this regard? Well you have succeeded at that. But that's about it. Remember, you may not judge what is and is not comedy based on your personal taste or that of others, lawmakers included.

No, dumbass. What I was demonstrating is that no matter what, some shit just isn't fucking funny. My previous post was a joke because anyone who thinks that racism (not satire or parody of racism pointing out how goddamned stupid it is, but racism) and racist jokes are funny, and that it's excusable for someone to express their racist views in public, let alone on fucking national TV, is a goddamned idiot insensitive enough to pull a stunt like I described above with not a care in the fucking world about who it may harm.

[Purple]

Said persona should be shed because this is the 21st century and casual racism is a bit more than frowned upon.

And what exactly is your argument for this? Other than the vague notion of it not fitting your taste.

Umm, not really getting the context of racism in a show about cars. Though I agree with you that context is a big part of it. For instance, using the n-word to make a racist joke is not funny in any circumstances. But using the n-word in a joke satirizing, parodying, or condemning racism may be acceptable. Those were not the kind of racist "jokes" Clarkson was and will again I'm sure, telling.

And here we disagree. I find that anything, absolutely anything can be made into a joke and will if done well be funny. No topic, racism included is off the table. Racist jokes can be just as funny as non racist ones. You just have to do them right.

No, dumbass. What I was demonstrating is that no matter what, some shit just isn't fucking funny.

And here you are wrong. Anything can be funny if done right. You are just trying to impose your tastes and sensibilities on reality and insulting me for pointing out that the two do not conform.

[Thanas]

Said persona should be shed because this is the 21st century and casual racism is a bit more than frowned upon.

And what exactly is your argument for this? Other than the vague notion of it not fitting your taste.

Do you really have to have explained to you how casual racist jokes might be inappropriate and especially how "jokes" about Nazis being "quintessentially German" and "German invasions" might be very offensive to Germans and Poles per se? Especially when the joke is supposed to be one about national stereotypes.