Libertarian Utopia Comes True (RAR!)

[Lord MJ]

By act of Q, all government organs (local, state, federal) are magically prevented to from management, regulating, or involving themselves in the economy in any way. All regulatory agencies and other bodies involved with economic and commerce management disappear.

Civil courts remain to handle disputes between private parties, but "economic crimes" other than things like larceny, embezzlement, etc, don't exist anymore. (No crime in doing things like subprime loans, dumping toxic waste, etc.)

This happens instantaneously to our present day US economy.

What happens next?

[Eulogy]

The country eats itself as one big megacorp becomes the de facto government and anyone not employed by said megacorp either starve, get murdered by said megacorp, or get out of dodge.

[J]

Welcome to the 2nd Guilded Age. Like the first one, but better. If you're not a slave. Which you shall be.

[Broomstick]

Return of serfdom.

An elite caste composed of high-level corporate executives becomes the new aristocracy, everyone else will exist to serve them. Aside from a few areas preserved for the enjoyment of the new overlords the environment goes to shit.

[K. A. Pital]

More or less the same shit, with more work and unpaid overtime, corporate executives replace government functionaries and bureaucrats and life goes on as usual. Capitalism is capitalism. Soon some arbitrage mechanism will be formed between the largest oligopoly agents, most likely in the form of... a new US government.

End of story.

[LadyTevar]

There will also be the start of new "Mine Wars", as workers get tired of being paid to die in unsafe work conditions and start to revolt. Unions start forming as war bands this time, as there is no US Gov. to plead for aid. Gunfights and sabatage become the order of the day, with the Companies hiring mercs to put down the Unions.

Welcome to a rapidly spreading civil revolt. The RAR says nothing about the Military, but most Vets I know have very little trust in Corporations, and a strong tie to Doing What's Right.

[Guardsman Bass]

There's a lot of ugliness at first, although that dampens a bit with time. LadyTevar beat me to it, but I'd expect you'd also see a big return to the massive unionization efforts of the Gilded Age and early 20th century: sit-down strikes, boycotts, general strikes, protests, employer-on-employee violence - that type of thing. Theoretically, you could end up with a "Ghent" union situation where the unions are so powerful that they effectively serve as the regulator on wages and working conditions, although that will be tough and depend on how the various levels of government intercede in labor conflicts.

[Borgholio]

Corporate Republic. Where Corporations have so much power they are effectively their own governments and the only to keep them in check is a union strong enough to actually physically threaten the Corporation and prevent them from having their way all the time. It would be bloody...and I fear for what would happen to the environment in the meantime.

[madd0ct0r]

is there legal space for worker cooperatives in America? Quite a few companies in the UK are worker owned - Waitrose, Coop, Arup (which is basically Praxis in the mars trilogy) ...

[Beowulf]

It is perfectly possible to structure a company as a member or worker owned co-op.

[Raw Shark]

What happens next?

Somalia.

[K. A. Pital]

What happens next?

Somalia.

Not poor enough and not enough young people, demographic background is different.

[Lord MJ]

In this scenario, law enforcement still exists, so if corporations hire mercs and they commit violent crimes, or people rebel against corporations and they commit violent crimes, then the police would still get involved to restore order.

The corps however would be more likely to get passes for what their mercs do, while the book would be thrown at violent union uprisers.

[Napoleon the Clown]

What's to stop the corporations from just bribing the police? Arguably, that pretty much happens even now.

And there's historical precedent for corporations using violence against striking workers and not paying dearly for doing so.

[Terralthra]

Hang on a tick. If all economic regulation disappears...what preserves the concept of a corporation? Corporate entities are present only as sanctioned by and regulated by societies. Things like limitation of liability, corporate ownership of capital, etc., would...vanish? No? Why not?

[Napoleon the Clown]

Incorporation is, in effect, a contract among multiple people. All that really needs to be there is a government willingness to respect that contract.

[Terralthra]

Incorporation is way more than that. Incorporation involves government recognition of an abstract entity as (legally speaking) a person, capable of action, liability, ownership, etc., aside from any human.

[Simon_Jester]

Yes. Incorporation is a specific legal process defined by the government to control and regulate ownership of large-scale capital goods, for the general benefit of the people who invest in those corporations. Before it was invented, concepts like "investment" and "ownership" worked very differently.

[LaCroix]

Yep - if the corporation's biggest dream comes true, the corporations's stop existing. Classic case of 'be careful what you wish for'

Other concepts to cease existing are limited liability - everyone holding shares is now a 'true' part-owner of the company, and will be liable with his personal belongings.

No more corporate taxation(with all the write-offs and stuff), and the ability to hide behind the company in a lawsuit is also gone - you now sue the owners, joint and directly.

Oh, and patent law is gone, too.

[Irbis]

You guys assume that corporations are just going to sit and let that happen? Why?

All you need "government recognition" for is someone to enforce your contracts. No government? Then corporation goes and uses force to do it themselves. You had feudalism working for hundreds of years despite no governments to enforce it, just pyramidal schemes of people on top kicking a bit of the wealth down in return for services. Why corporation couldn't enforce the same with its own security forces? Welcome to Serfdom 2.0, peasants.

Also, there is no write-off because taxes don't exist anymore. Corporations can keep 100% of they make, though their direct income would be smaller too as they would need to share some of the burden of running stuff in direct vicinity. Courts? Police? Please, who is going to fund them? No one? Oops, there goes that plan.

[K. A. Pital]

Limited liability is pointless in a libertopia anyway. In real world, it serves to make capitalism risk-free, but in a libertopia capitalism is by definition not risk-free and you are risking your all as there are no agencies to protect you except your mercenaries, and liability is always total.

[LaCroix]

You guys assume that corporations are just going to sit and let that happen? Why?

All you need "government recognition" for is someone to enforce your contracts. No government? Then corporation goes and uses force to do it themselves. You had feudalism working for hundreds of years despite no governments to enforce it, just pyramidal schemes of people on top kicking a bit of the wealth down in return for services. Why corporation couldn't enforce the same with its own security forces? Welcome to Serfdom 2.0, peasants.

Also, there is no write-off because taxes don't exist anymore. Corporations can keep 100% of they make, though their direct income would be smaller too as they would need to share some of the burden of running stuff in direct vicinity. Courts? Police? Please, who is going to fund them? No one? Oops, there goes that plan.

You're wrong.

prevented to from management, regulating, or involving themselves in the economy

You will need to sue them to get them to comply with the civil contract of buying something. Same if the company dumps toxic waste - residents will have to sue for polluting their backyard.

If you are using force on somebody, the police will still show up to arrest your arse. Only commerce-related regulations are tossed out of the window - police, taxes in general (most stuff like corporate tax and VAT will be tossed out, but income or property taxes per se are not management or regulation of commmerce, but general things used to finance the state), and military still exist.

[Irbis]

If you are using force on somebody, the police will still show up to arrest your arse. Only commerce-related regulations are tossed out of the window - police, taxes in general (most stuff like corporate tax and VAT will be tossed out, but income or property taxes per se are not management or regulation of commmerce, but general things used to finance the state), and military still exist.

And who exactly is going to fund that police? No regulation means transferring all profits overseas, no taxes collected, police going on corporation payroll, bye bye state.

But ok, let's say the magical police and army still exists. Company simply draws paper saying "everyone standing on earth we own accrues fee 100$ per minute for using it unless he or his family is employed in company, this contract is of opt-out type" and try to sue them then, good luck with that

[LaCroix]

I believe you are wrong, again. To force you to pay for this contract, the owner of the company (as the company is no entity, anymore) would need to sue everyone he wants money from in a private court. And the judge would throw such a "contract" out, immediately, as the joke it is, just as it would happen if a private person would try to enforce such a "contract" on other people, these days.

Basically, a lot of things would become harder for corporations, as they cannot use the tried tools of contract law, anymore, and are forced to go to court for everything, needing to prove the validity of their contractual claim time and time again. Stuff like opt-out would be the first thing to fly out of the window, as in general law, you can only opt into an agreement by giving consent. Contracts assuming your consent are invalid, and drawing them up could even earn you a charge of fraud. (as in you, the owner of the company, as the company is no legal person, anymore)

A lot of "CEO's" would find themselves in big trouble because they would still assume they could hide behind corporate identity. Without corporate law, they will face fines and jail times, themselves, for everything their business does under their rule. As would the owners (shareholders).

That's why businesses are never mobbing for an end of all corporate law, only the things that restrict them from doing bad things to others. More than half of corporate law is utterly important for them to keep their business going.

[LaCroix]

The loss of patent law, and thus, copyright, will be their worst problem.

Nobody could forbid piracy, anymore - software, movie and music would go utterly broke within the year.

And with no way to keep people from copying their products and brand names, European and Chinese companies would destroy the US companies in no time!

edit:
Apart from the fact that it would take lawyers years to figure out what to do with the former company possessions, draw up private contracts between all owners about ownership shares, new employment contracts, and agreements how to run the business in the future. Between ALL SHAREHOLDERS, as all of them are now co-owners, and you can only have agreements when each and every singgle one signs. (No votings, anymore. That was a part of corporate law.)

Then they need to draw up new contracts between all these businesses. And their customers.