Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Dominus Atheos
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Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Dominus Atheos »

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2014/09/13692/
Every time a new state redefines marriage, the news is full of happy stories of gay and lesbian couples and their new families. But behind those big smiles and sunny photographs are other, more painful stories. These are left to secret, dark places. They are suppressed, and those who would tell them are silenced in the name of “marriage equality.”

But I refuse to be silent.

I represent one of those real life stories that are kept in the shadows. I have personally felt the pain and devastation wrought by the propaganda that destroys natural families.

The Divorce

In the fall of 2007, my husband of almost ten years told me that he was gay and that he wanted a divorce. In an instant, the world that I had known and loved—the life we had built together—was shattered.

I tried to convince him to stay, to stick it out and fight to save our marriage. But my voice, my desires, my needs—and those of our two young children—no longer mattered to him. We had become disposable, because he had embraced one tiny word that had become his entire identity. Being gay trumped commitment, vows, responsibility, faith, fatherhood, marriage, friendships, and community. All of this was thrown away for the sake of his new identity.

Try as I might to save our marriage, there was no stopping my husband. Our divorce was not settled in mediation or with lawyers. No, it went all the way to trial. My husband wanted primary custody of our children. His entire case can be summed up in one sentence: “I am gay, and I deserve my rights.” It worked: the judge gave him practically everything he wanted. At one point, he even told my husband, “If you had asked for more, I would have given it to you.”

I truly believe that judge was legislating from the bench, disregarding the facts of our particular case and simply using us—using our children— to help influence future cases. In our society, LGBT citizens are seen as marginalized victims who must be protected at all costs, even if it means stripping rights from others. By ignoring the injustice committed against me and my children, the judge seemed to think that he was correcting a larger injustice.

My husband had left us for his gay lover. They make more money than I do. There are two of them and only one of me. Even so, the judge believed that they were the victims. No matter what I said or did, I didn’t have a chance of saving our children from being bounced around like so many pieces of luggage.

A New Same-Sex Family—Built On the Ruins of Mine

My ex-husband and his partner went on to marry. Their first ceremony took place before our state redefined marriage. After it created same-sex marriage, they chose to have a repeat performance. In both cases, my children were forced—against my will and theirs—to participate. At the second ceremony, which included more than twenty couples, local news stations and papers were there to document the first gay weddings officiated in our state. USA Today did a photo journal shoot on my ex and his partner, my children, and even the grandparents. I was not notified that this was taking place, nor was I given a voice to object to our children being used as props to promote same-sex marriage in the media.

At the time of the first ceremony, the marriage was not recognized by our state, our nation, or our church. And my ex-husband’s new marriage, like the majority of male-male relationships, is an “open,” non-exclusive relationship. This sends a clear message to our children: what you feel trumps all laws, promises, and higher authorities. You can do whatever you want, whenever you want—and it doesn’t matter who you hurt along the way.

After our children’s pictures were publicized, a flood of comments and posts appeared. Commenters exclaimed at how beautiful this gay family was and congratulated my ex-husband and his new partner on the family that they “created.” But there is a significant person missing from those pictures: the mother and abandoned wife. That “gay family” could not exist without me.

There is not one gay family that exists in this world that was created naturally.

Every same-sex family can only exist by manipulating nature. Behind the happy façade of many families headed by same-sex couples, we see relationships that are built from brokenness. They represent covenants broken, love abandoned, and responsibilities crushed. They are built on betrayal, lies, and deep wounds.

This is also true of same-sex couples who use assisted reproductive technologies such as surrogacy or sperm donation to have children. Such processes exploit men and women for their reproductive potential, treat children as products to be bought and sold, and purposely deny children a relationship with one or both of their biological parents. Wholeness and balance cannot be found in such families, because something is always missing. I am missing. But I am real, and I represent hundreds upon thousands of spouses who have been betrayed and rejected.

If my husband had chosen to stay, I know that things wouldn’t have been easy. But that is what marriage is about: making a vow and choosing to live it out, day after day. In sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, spouses must choose to put the other person first, loving them even when it’s hard.

A good marriage doesn’t only depend on sexual desire, which can come and go and is often out of our control. It depends on choosing to love, honor, and be faithful to one person, forsaking all others. It is common for spouses to be attracted to other people—usually of the opposite sex, but sometimes of the same sex. Spouses who value their marriage do not act on those impulses. For those who find themselves attracted to people of the same sex, staying faithful to their opposite-sex spouse isn’t a betrayal of their true identity. Rather, it’s a decision not to let themselves be ruled by their passions. It shows depth and strength of character when such people remain true to their vows, consciously striving to remember, honor, and revive the love they had for their spouses when they first married.

My Children Deserve Better

Our two young children were willfully and intentionally thrust into a world of strife and combative beliefs, lifestyles, and values, all in the name of “gay rights.” Their father moved into his new partner’s condo, which is in a complex inhabited by sixteen gay men. One of the men has a 19-year-old male prostitute who comes to service him. Another man, who functions as the father figure of this community, is in his late sixties and has a boyfriend in his twenties. My children are brought to gay parties where they are the only children and where only alcoholic beverages are served. They are taken to transgender baseball games, gay rights fundraisers, and LGBT film festivals.

Both of my children face identity issues, just like other children. Yet there are certain deep and unique problems that they will face as a direct result of my former husband’s actions. My son is now a maturing teen, and he is very interested in girls. But how will he learn how to deal with that interest when he is surrounded by men who seek sexual gratification from other men? How will he learn to treat girls with care and respect when his father has rejected them and devalues them? How will he embrace his developing masculinity without seeing his father live out authentic manhood by treating his wife and family with love, honoring his marriage vows even when it's hard?

My daughter suffers too. She needs a dad who will encourage her to embrace her femininity and beauty, but these qualities are parodied and distorted in her father's world. Her dad wears make-up and sex bondage straps for Halloween. She is often exposed to men dressing as women. The walls in his condo are adorned with large framed pictures of women in provocative positions. What is my little girl to believe about her own femininity and beauty? Her father should be protecting her sexuality. Instead, he is warping it.

Without the guidance of both their mother and their father, how can my children navigate their developing identities and sexuality? I ache to see my children struggle, desperately trying to make sense of their world.

My children and I have suffered great losses because of my former husband’s decision to identify as a gay man and throw away his life with us. Time is revealing the depth of those wounds, but I will not allow them to destroy me and my children. I refuse to lose my faith and hope. I believe so much more passionately in the power of the marriage covenant between one man and one woman today than when I was married. There is another way for those with same-sex attractions. Destruction is not the only option—it cannot be. Our children deserve far better from us.

This type of devastation should never happen to another spouse or child. Please, I plead with you: defend marriage as being between one man and one woman. We must stand for marriage—and for the precious lives that marriage creates.

Janna Darnelle is a mother, writer, and an advocate for upholding marriage between one man and one woman. She mentors others whose families have been impacted by homosexuality.
Posted in Off-topic because it is mostly just a "point and laugh" topic. Maybe we could have a discussion about how the Right is desperately flailing for something that they can say is bad about gay marriage that isn't religiously based, and this is apparently the best they can come up with.

But mostly let's point and laugh at the stupid homophobe. (ZOMG NOT TEH TRANSGENDER BASEBALL GAMES!!!!!)
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Crazedwraith »

I actually have some sympathy for the lady. Is she right? no. But it in no way can be easy to hear and find out that your husband of ten years and father of your children is gay and wants to leave you. (Though being said husband is no easier)

The other claims, may be true, may be biased but I can see why should would feel that way. Though there is some irony in her saying 'in marriage you should put your partner's needs first' while not thinking of what her husband needed.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Borgholio »

The only thing I can agree with her on is the fact that her existing relationship was rather shattered by his desire to divorce and move on. But this is one sided, so it's very possible that her attempts to convince him to stay involved seeking "treatment" for his condition or yelling at him about how he was sinful, which would justify his need to take her to court and demand custody of the kids.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Spekio »

Crazedwraith wrote:I actually have some sympathy for the lady. Is she right? no. But it in no way can be easy to hear and find out that your husband of ten years and father of your children is gay and wants to leave you. (Though being said husband is no easier)

The other claims, may be true, may be biased but I can see why should would feel that way. Though there is some irony in her saying 'in marriage you should put your partner's needs first' while not thinking of what her husband needed.
Me too. It is like she can't come to terms with the fact her marriage ended and seeks to blame someone.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Terralthra »

I look at this story and ask "what would be different if he weren't gay?"

The answer, of course, is nothing. Marriages end, and the people move on and find other partners. Sometimes they get custody of kids even if you don't want them to. Sometimes they get married with lots of hoopla, and people congratulate them on their amazing family, while you're left behind. That's the breaks, and it has nothing to do with marriage equality.

Alternatively, what would be better about this situation if he were gay and there were no marriage equality? Would she have expected him to stay in a relationship he was unhappy in because he couldn't marry another (male) lover?
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by K. A. Pital »

Terralthra wrote:I look at this story and ask "what would be different if he weren't gay?"

The answer, of course, is nothing. Marriages end, and the people move on and find other partners. Sometimes they get custody of kids even if you don't want them to. Sometimes they get married with lots of hoopla, and people congratulate them on their amazing family, while you're left behind. That's the breaks, and it has nothing to do with marriage equality.

Alternatively, what would be better about this situation if he were gay and there were no marriage equality? Would she have expected him to stay in a relationship he was unhappy in because he couldn't marry another (male) lover?
Actually, no. I mean, him being gay and being unable for many years to pursue a honest relationship is what wrecked hers. Had he been able to live in a society that doesn't stigmatize gays and thus pursue his interests, perhaps none of this would have happened (if it ever did).

So, I feel sorry for him first. For her second.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Terralthra »

I'm not saying that I don't feel sympathy for him. I'm saying that my sympathy for her is "your marriage fell apart and your partner moved on, and that sucks," it has nothing to do with gay or straight. Marriages fail for all sorts of reasons.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by K. A. Pital »

Reasons can be different, but generally both partners share the blame. In this case, the blame's mostly on society, not on the guy.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Stas Bush wrote:Actually, no. I mean, him being gay and being unable for many years to pursue a honest relationship is what wrecked hers. Had he been able to live in a society that doesn't stigmatize gays and thus pursue his interests, perhaps none of this would have happened (if it ever did).
Or maybe not - even if he had lived in a society without sexual orientation bias he still might have married her first and later left her. Or married a man first and left that man for the current one.

Really, the only difference between her rant and many other butt-hurt rants I've heard from bitter divorced people is that her husband is gay. Plenty of heterosexual marriages have ended with one party or the other screeching about the new significant other, accusations of coercing the children, passing them around as luggage, warping them, etc.

Not invited/told of the second marriage? Well, why the hell should the ex invite such a bitter harpy?
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Spekio »

Broomstick wrote: Not invited/told of the second marriage? Well, why the hell should the ex invite such a bitter harpy?
A bitter harpy that actively and publicly tries to make his marriage impossible, none the less.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Starglider »

I would feel sorry for the children before either of the parents. The mother's concerns about their upbringing are almost certainly exagerated, possibly entirely spurious, but that kind of painful drawn-out breakup followed by legal action and media circus will do plenty of harm regardless. It doesn't have a direct bearing on LGBT rights - there may be some occassional 'positive discrimination' that went too far but that is a drop in the ocean compared to the negative discrimination against LGBT - but it is somewhat tragic.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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I don't feel any sympathy for the ex-husband. It doesn't matter whether your new squeeze is a man or a woman, telling your spouse you don't love them* and you're leaving them for someone else is a shitty thing to do, especially if the way you choose to do it carries with it the implication that you never loved them and that your marriage was a lie from the beginning.

* And that is what he's saying here: not "I'm attracted to you and to some other women" like pretty much any heterosexual male is, or "I'm attracted to you and to some men" like a bisexual man might and still live a perfectly happy life with the woman he loves, but "I'm attracted to someone else and I'm not attracted to you".
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Grumman wrote:I don't feel any sympathy for the ex-husband. It doesn't matter whether your new squeeze is a man or a woman, telling your spouse you don't love them* and you're leaving them for someone else is a shitty thing to do, especially if the way you choose to do it carries with it the implication that you never loved them and that your marriage was a lie from the beginning.

* And that is what he's saying here: not "I'm attracted to you and to some other women" like pretty much any heterosexual male is, or "I'm attracted to you and to some men" like a bisexual man might and still live a perfectly happy life with the woman he loves, but "I'm attracted to someone else and I'm not attracted to you".
Or he did not love her anymore. People change, love fades. I don't see how you can fault the man for being honest. You expected him to cheat on her for... reasons?
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Grumman wrote:I don't feel any sympathy for the ex-husband. It doesn't matter whether your new squeeze is a man or a woman, telling your spouse you don't love them* and you're leaving them for someone else is a shitty thing to do, especially if the way you choose to do it carries with it the implication that you never loved them and that your marriage was a lie from the beginning.

* And that is what he's saying here: not "I'm attracted to you and to some other women" like pretty much any heterosexual male is, or "I'm attracted to you and to some men" like a bisexual man might and still live a perfectly happy life with the woman he loves, but "I'm attracted to someone else and I'm not attracted to you".
Except that what were his options for having a semi-normal family before gay marriage started to gain acceptance? Now that things have gotten a little more equal he can finally leave for something that actually fits. Besides, he divorced her back in '07 according to the article. After seven years you need to move the fuck on with your life.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Jub wrote:Except that what were his options for having a semi-normal family before gay marriage started to gain acceptance? Now that things have gotten a little more equal he can finally leave for something that actually fits.
A person's desire to have a spouse and kids is worth far, far less than a person's desire to not enter into a sham of a marriage to someone who doesn't love them. So please, leave this bullshit to fuckups like Elliot Rodger.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Grumman wrote: A person's desire to have a spouse and kids is worth far, far less than a person's desire to not enter into a sham of a marriage to someone who doesn't love them. So please, leave this bullshit to fuckups like Elliot Rodger.
This got stupid really fast. People are still strongly pressured to conform to social norms under the threath of fierce retaliation. For many many people coming out still means having to leave their families and friends behind, because of their "choice" of lifestyle.

Perhaps he wanted to be cured, perhaps he repressed his fellings because he felt something was wrong with him, or he was pressured to marry her so he could still be part of his community, or married her for many reasons as people tend to do.

People do not have the obligation, moral or legal, of staying in relationships they don't want to. Should he jeopardize his happiness for someone he did not love, or be the scumbag and have an affair for appearences?
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Grumman wrote:
Jub wrote:Except that what were his options for having a semi-normal family before gay marriage started to gain acceptance? Now that things have gotten a little more equal he can finally leave for something that actually fits.
A person's desire to have a spouse and kids is worth far, far less than a person's desire to not enter into a sham of a marriage to someone who doesn't love them. So please, leave this bullshit to fuckups like Elliot Rodger.
Wrong, people marry for all kinds of reasons and marriages end for all kinds of reasons. The article only goes into one side of things and you automatically seem to assume that the man is a bastard for ending a relationship with a person he doesn't currently have feelings for. Then she proceeds to whinge about it for the next seven years, likely precisely because people like you agree with her.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Grumman wrote:* And that is what he's saying here: not "I'm attracted to you and to some other women" like pretty much any heterosexual male is, or "I'm attracted to you and to some men" like a bisexual man might and still live a perfectly happy life with the woman he loves, but "I'm attracted to someone else and I'm not attracted to you".
I would argue that, since there are children, he must have been attracted to her to some degree at some point.

Also, quite a few homosexuals, just like quite a few heterosexuals, would actually be more accurately described as bisexuals but for various reasons would rather swallow their own tongues than admit attraction to both men and women.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by K. A. Pital »

Broomstick wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:Actually, no. I mean, him being gay and being unable for many years to pursue a honest relationship is what wrecked hers. Had he been able to live in a society that doesn't stigmatize gays and thus pursue his interests, perhaps none of this would have happened (if it ever did).
Or maybe not - even if he had lived in a society without sexual orientation bias he still might have married her first and later left her. Or married a man first and left that man for the current one.
That is true: however, in both situations the answer as to why the relationship is ceased would be honest (because it fell apart) and not because he had to repress his identity for years. I find that better. Don't you?
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Well, sure that would be better.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Crazedwraith wrote:I actually have some sympathy for the lady. Is she right? no. But it in no way can be easy to hear and find out that your husband of ten years and father of your children is gay and wants to leave you. (Though being said husband is no easier)
She is the first person I've ever seen specifically mentioned who actually CAN claim gay marriage blew up her straight marriage.
The other claims, may be true, may be biased but I can see why should would feel that way. Though there is some irony in her saying 'in marriage you should put your partner's needs first' while not thinking of what her husband needed.
The real catch here is that I'd bet that the main reason this guy was married for ten years and then left to 'go be gay' or whatever she thinks of it... is that he was in denial, because he was born in a homophobic society.

If it were socially accepted in such circles to be gay we'd have a lot fewer deeply closeted people coming out and "suddenly" being gay after decades of trying to fake heterosexuality.
Broomstick wrote:
Grumman wrote:* And that is what he's saying here: not "I'm attracted to you and to some other women" like pretty much any heterosexual male is, or "I'm attracted to you and to some men" like a bisexual man might and still live a perfectly happy life with the woman he loves, but "I'm attracted to someone else and I'm not attracted to you".
I would argue that, since there are children, he must have been attracted to her to some degree at some point.
If straight males can engage in situational homosexuality (and some do), I imagine that some gays can engage in situational heterosexuality?
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

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Situational heterosexuality would be if no partner of the preferred sex was around ever, or if it was a very occasional sort of thing. Unless you are going to suggest there were two and only two episodes of intercourse and both of those resulted in a pregnancy the couple got jiggy more than twice. Given that men generally have to have some sort of sexual feeling to be able to perform either he had one hell of a capacity to fantasize while fucking his wife or yeah, he was actually somewhat bisexual.

He may choose to never engaged in hetero intercourse again, sure, but unless it was a celibate marriage of convenience I'm having a little trouble believing it was all entirely fake for the marriage.
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Simon_Jester »

Hm.

What I mean is, if you have a man who is naturally homosexual in his leanings, but who has spent many long years convincing himself that homosexuality is wrong, and channeling his libido toward women as hard as he can, and who is (presumably) genuinely fond of his wife...

...That man might well be sexual with his wife, without showing any obvious discomfort to an outside observer. Maybe he's frequently thinking of a man while engaged in an act. Maybe it's the product of deep suppression/transference/whatever psychobabble we use.

"Situational" isn't the right word to describe it. But am I making any sense?
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Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Broomstick »

Yes, you are making sense.

I still think it's up in the air whether he was fooling himself with great success or is genuinely bisexual.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Grumman
Jedi Council Member
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Joined: 2011-12-10 09:13am

Re: Gay Marriage: Won't Somebody Think of the Children

Post by Grumman »

Simon_Jester wrote:The real catch here is that I'd bet that the main reason this guy was married for ten years and then left to 'go be gay' or whatever she thinks of it... is that he was in denial, because he was born in a homophobic society.
Was he in denial about not loving women, or about not loving Janna Darnelle? Being heterosexual does not mean you're attracted to every single woman, it means you're attracted to some subset of women and no men. If he'd been waiting for a soulmate not knowing he was looking in the wrong place that would have been one thing, but he married Mrs. Good Enough For Now and then dropped her like a ton of bricks when he did find what he was looking for. It's a shitty thing to do when a man does it to a woman over another woman, it's a shitty thing to do when a woman does it to a man over another man, and it's still a shitty thing to do when a man does it to a woman over another man.
Simon_Jester wrote:What I mean is, if you have a man who is naturally homosexual in his leanings, but who has spent many long years convincing himself that homosexuality is wrong, and channeling his libido toward women as hard as he can, and who is (presumably) genuinely fond of his wife...
A man that is allegedly fond of his wife should at least have as much empathy for her as a man might have for a complete stranger. If you're fond of someone, you should care that telling them you're divorcing them because you don't love them, there's somebody else and you're taking the kids is going to hurt them.
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