Gandalf wrote:Darmalus wrote:I tend to draw the line where if it's "legitimate" official national violence or angry mob violence. There's a difference between 'We should kill all the X because of Y. We should go to war, vote for Z!" and "We should kill all the X because of Y. Grab your torches and hanging ropes!" Sure, all the X get killed, but it's the difference between national policy and personal vendetta. If killing all the X is justice or not is an entirely different question.
This is where the idea falls apart. What happens when national policy is dictated by personal vendettas? Does the vendetta gain legitimacy?
The difference is that when it becomes national policy AND is directed outward, it stops being a breach of the civil order. At that point it's an international law issue, not an
intranational law issue.
If private citizens harass private citizens, it's a breach of the peace (in the civil sense).
If private citizens harass the government, it's a protest or a revolt, depending on how they do it.
If the government harasses private citizens, it's a civil rights violation.
If the government harasses another government, it's diplomacy as usual, or possibly an act of war.
There are different sets of rules governing each case, for good reasons.
When private citizens harass private citizens- well, that's pretty much literaly what governments were invented to prevent in the first place. We have a wide range of laws to discourage that, because it's relatively easy to enforce such laws in an orderly fashion, without a lot of needless brutality.
Private citizens harassing a government- governments ban that in self-defense, and because otherwise there'd be no way to enforce laws on anyone who didn't want them enforced, including most of the criminals.
Governments harassing private citizens- that's what constitutions are for. Governments get a lot of power to use on citizens because it's necessary for the public good, but the tendency to abuse it... well, just look how many threads we've got on that subject right now.
[Both mass government persecution of entire groups, and government persecution of specific individuals, fall under this heading]
Governments harassing other governments... there's no way to police it, so we do what we can with international law and the basic Westphalian system. Powerful governments tend to disrespect the rules precisely because we can't stop them without making things worse.