Vikings Season 2 (Spoilers)

[Flagg]

Man what a great way to start a season. I was rolling my eyes at Rollo being spared execution until I saw the coin in the lawmakers hand. Clever bit of writing there. Also something Ragnar does has consequences that aren't to his immediate benefit! Amazing!

[Darksider]

I laughed my ass off when Aslaug showed up. Ragnar just looks at Lagartha like "What?" and I just lost it.

[Thanas]

Good drama but might just as well be fantasy.

Warning, historical nitpicking ahead.
Spoiler

This series continues to throw away potential. It gets so many things right (though mainly based on christian sources) but throws away the potential to be really great with hollywood showmanship for which there is no reason. The tactics shown were beyond stupid. Jumping over a shield "wall" (more like lets stand somewhat close together). And nobody apparently cares what happens behind that line as it all dissolves into personal duels.

There is more but I find it highly irritating how a show can get so many things right but fail in so many others. Like the "true vikings do not rape anyone" of last season. If a show glorifies murderous bastards and pirates then it should portray them as such.

Letting Rollo survive seems weak from a drama point.

[Meest]

Hopefully it was just premiere gimmicks to try and get viewership but it seems to have gotten too soapy, it's almost like it's trying to get picked up by Starz network.

[Thanas]

I don't know, I enjoyed the episode more than I did all but two of the first season.

[Thanas]

The combat is getting stupider by the episode. Guys with bows and arrows fire just one or two volleys and then charge (with half of them not even having shields) instead of just waiting the vikings out and fire at them once they get tired of holding the shields. Vikings still do not wear armor (well, besides those small leather/scale things Ragnar is wearing) yet win in battle against guys in full armor, helmets and longswords. And again a hollywood style charge from people who perfected the shieldwall. Also, 20 or so guys are now a large force of the saxons.

The show attempts to get so many things right - like language - yet why do they fail at the most elemental piece of the show?

[Block]

Money. It's expensive to film large scale battles, and the longer you keep them going the more expensive it gets.

[Thanas]

Money. It's expensive to film large scale battles, and the longer you keep them going the more expensive it gets.

But wouldn't it be cheaper to just show two lines pushing at each other instead of having stuntmen jump up and down and do hand-to-hand duel fighting?

[Block]

Money. It's expensive to film large scale battles, and the longer you keep them going the more expensive it gets.

But wouldn't it be cheaper to just show two lines pushing at each other instead of having stuntmen jump up and down and do hand-to-hand duel fighting?

Not if that cause it to drag out, or requires more equipment to seem more real.

[Thanas]

Doubtful considering you had about five minutes of action sequences.

[StarSword]

Hypothetical: How hard/expensive would it be to use the algorithms the LOTR movies used for their large-scale hostilities to generate establishing shots and then treat the actual filmed fight as a subset?

[Darth Nostril]

The Massive software used in LOTR costs $16,000 a license, $6,000 a pop for the budget version.
Then you need someone who knows how to use it, plus modellers to create the CGI warriors, plus a decent rendering facility ...
In short not easy and not cheap.

[Thanas]

Upon some more reflection, I think I see why they chose this simply to have drama. I don't really get it considering other series (Rome, The Borgias, The Tudors) managed to show realistic scenarios and still have them look good dramatically, but I can kinda see why they went this way.

I still don't get why everything is so small scale though.

[Darksider]

I still don't get why everything is so small scale though.

Could it be a budget thing? Or the fact that the History Channel just isn't experienced at doing a period drama like this? I mean at this point their mostly Hitler docs and ancient aliens.

[Kingmaker]

Spoiler

Letting Rollo survive seems weak from a drama point.

Spoiler

But if Rollo dies, how is he supposed to become ruler of Normandy? You've got to think about the historical continuity.

[Thanas]

Spoiler

Letting Rollo survive seems weak from a drama point.

Spoiler

But if Rollo dies, how is he supposed to become ruler of Normandy? You've got to think about the historical continuity.

Spoiler

If the show would care about that Ragnar would be about seven different guys instead of one and would spent more time in the east than in the west according to his death song

[Thanas]

I still don't get why everything is so small scale though.

Could it be a budget thing? Or the fact that the History Channel just isn't experienced at doing a period drama like this? I mean at this point their mostly Hitler docs and ancient aliens.

But the guys doing it did the Tudors, which was anything but small scale.

[Block]

I still don't get why everything is so small scale though.

Could it be a budget thing? Or the fact that the History Channel just isn't experienced at doing a period drama like this? I mean at this point their mostly Hitler docs and ancient aliens.

But the guys doing it did the Tudors, which was anything but small scale.

Different networks are willing and able to pay different amounts for original programming. History channel shows are going to have lower budgets than premium cable networks.

[Thanas]

This show tries to paint Egbert as a villain yet fails hilariously in that. One guy is making strategic moves to protect his people, the others are murderers and rapists who do not even honor the lives of messengers.

Also, they just fail with the character of Floki. In season 1 he was the inquisitive shipbuilder, now he is a sadist.

[Thanas]

Ghetto edit: On the positive side, they sure put a lot of money into good looking imitations of those buildings and ships. The scale of the viking forces still seems small to me, but the equipment they use looks great, especially in the last ship attack on the village.

The tactics are still pretty stupid though. Have one unarmored guy lead the defence stand exposed for minutes without any possibility of cover and not a single archer shot at him? The shieldwall had all sorts of gaps.

[Kingmaker]

The Saxon soldiers are either extremely brave or wildly overconfident. Also apparently led by idiots.

"Men, we're outnumbered by a band of hardened killers, but our enemies are advancing in disorder and we have actual armor and a choke point the enemy needs to push through to get into the square. Fortunately, I have a cunning plan to leverage all of our advantages: we're going to split into two groups. The first group is going to run out piecemeal and engage the enemy in a series of duels. In the unlikely event that fails, we let them past the chokepoint and then ride around the square like assholes while we get picked off by their one archer."

One guy is making strategic moves to protect his people, the others are murderers and rapists who do not even honor the lives of messengers.

One thing that stands out to me: back in early season one, even if they were murderous bastards, you had to give Ragnar and friends credit for taking some incredible risks and pulling off some incredible stuff. It was interesting to watch. They're not really getting the same effect this season. I'm more interested in seeing how Egbert turns the tables on the Danes, though I'm sure Ragnar will continue to be stupidly lucky and/or opposed by idiots.

[Thanas]

The Saxon soldiers are either extremely brave or wildly overconfident. Also apparently led by idiots.

"Men, we're outnumbered by a band of hardened killers, but our enemies are advancing in disorder and we have actual armor and a choke point the enemy needs to push through to get into the square. Fortunately, I have a cunning plan to leverage all of our advantages: we're going to split into two groups. The first group is going to run out piecemeal and engage the enemy in a series of duels. In the unlikely event that fails, we let them past the chokepoint and then ride around the square like assholes while we get picked off by their one archer."

Don't forget the always patented:

"we have already invented the shieldwall and have a few riders. So let us disregard both and station our cavalry inside a confined space (I'll take send no messenger to the king for reinforcements for 100$, Alex) while things like archers and women hurling stones from rooftops are unknown to us. We will also not lock the massive doors of the massive stone building, despite it having been built for fortification purposes as well. Yes, we are descended from a warrior people currently embroiled in centuries of warfare with our immediate neighbours, why do you ask?".

Seriously, if they had locked the doors and covered the courtyard with archery and stones it would have taken the vikings a long time to get somewhere. They would have had to built a ram and advance under a shieldwall etc.

[Minischoles]

Well I think we can see why the battles previously shown were so anemic - seems they saved their budget for the second to last episode to have a huge battle scene.

[Kingmaker]

Well, that was a thing.

One thing that has bugged me throughout this: Horik, despite nominally being king of Denmark, doesn't appear to be anything more than a regular jarl with a fancy business card. Now, I know kings in 9th century Scandinavia were hardly absolute monarchs, but you'd think anyone who could claim to be king and not be laughed at would have at least a few other chiefs who supported him.