Revolution in the U.S.

OT: anything goes!

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Borgholio
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Borgholio »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
1. The Democrats being in the White House
2. Obama, a black man, being President
3. The fact that Obama's administration was the one that finally got bin Laden and "won the war" so to speak.
This. Also #4 - Obama is more socialist than other previous presidents.

Basically we have a black democratic / socialist president. All three things are hated by many of the people who are screaming for revolution.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Flagg »

Borgholio wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
1. The Democrats being in the White House
2. Obama, a black man, being President
3. The fact that Obama's administration was the one that finally got bin Laden and "won the war" so to speak.
This. Also #4 - Obama is more socialist than other previous presidents.

Basically we have a black democratic / socialist president. All three things are hated by many of the people who are screaming for revolution.
Bahahahahahahahaha! Socialist? Are you on crack? Obama is about as centrist as you can get! It's just the republicans are in Attila the Hun territory. Hell, Obama is downright conservative in comparison to most of the western democracies. Socialist! Ha!
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Borgholio
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Borgholio »

Well yeah you're quite right, European democracies are way more to the left than Obama. However with that said, Obama *is* more socialist than past presidents we've had. A lot of these knee-jerk teabaggers confuse socialist with communist. They don't consider him to be just another liberal, they think he literally IS communist. I mean universal healthcare, social safety net...my god, he's going to destroy this God-fearing White Christian Free-market nation of ours!
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Flagg »

Since when did Obama sign UHC into law? And last I checked he wanted to curb social security cost of living increases in some pie in the sky grand bargain. The last liberal president this country had was Carter
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

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The method by which he enacted UHC really doesn't matter to these people. He was the champion behind it and thus they blame him for it.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Flagg »

Borgholio wrote:The method by which he enacted UHC really doesn't matter to these people. He was the champion behind it and thus they blame him for it.
The ACA is not UHC.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Borgholio »

I stand corrected. I have always considered the ACA the first step towards actual UHC.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Patroklos »

I think some of you are getting tunnel vision with current events. Some of you might be two young but given Ruby Ridge in 1992 and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 most of your conditions above evaporate as unique circumstances for this sort of thing. As I mentioned already plenty of lefties openly advocate and indeed consider inevitable a French Revolution style over through of the elite and I highly doubt they are motivated by any of the things you mentioned. Also the right wing militia style nonsense is nothing new and not particularly forceful at the moment if you look at history.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Simon_Jester »

Borgholio wrote:Well yeah you're quite right, European democracies are way more to the left than Obama. However with that said, Obama *is* more socialist than past presidents we've had.
He's not, he's really not. Clinton wasn't much different, though he acted a little different for most of his presidency because he had to deal with Republican congressional majorities.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Borgholio »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Borgholio wrote:Well yeah you're quite right, European democracies are way more to the left than Obama. However with that said, Obama *is* more socialist than past presidents we've had.
He's not, he's really not. Clinton wasn't much different, though he acted a little different for most of his presidency because he had to deal with Republican congressional majorities.
I guess my memory must be faulty. But then again, I was still in high school during most of his presidency so I probably didn't pay as close attention as I do now to politics. All I remember about Clinton is that cigar thing.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Lagmonster »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote: Something, or some combination of things, is causing people to freak out. We should at least take that seriously, because it may be that there's something very, very dysfunctional about our politics that causes people to talk 'revolution' who would never have done so five or ten years ago.
I can offer you perhaps three ideas as to what those are, based on the rest of your post:

1. The Democrats being in the White House
2. Obama, a black man, being President
3. The fact that Obama's administration was the one that finally got bin Laden and "won the war" so to speak.

Gratned that's just my opinion, but a large amount of people who are talking in this revolutionary way seem to mention Obama a lot, as if everything is his fault. The 3rd option is pure speculation however.
Simpler explanation: The chicken littles are always there, but the demand for sensational 24hr news, the explosion of 'on site' coverage by social media, and the ability for people of like mind to find each other easily on the Internet means you hear about and from them more often, and they only get louder once they believe they have a platform on which to speak (ie. in front of the camera/webcam/blog page).
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Lord Falcon »

People tend to romanticize guns, not helped by Hollywood where people blasting away at endless armies of bad guys is treated as a good thing. They also treat the 2nd Amendment much like they do the bible; as something sacred that is beyond our mortal comprehension and should therefore never be questioned. As to what they could achieve... at most, I think they could cause mass riots if enough people who shouldn't have guns keep getting access to them and public shootings get even worse.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

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Borgholio wrote:Well yeah you're quite right, European democracies are way more to the left than Obama. However with that said, Obama *is* more socialist than past presidents we've had. [snip]
First, let me preface this by flipping you off for making me back up Flagg in public. ;)

That said, I'd like to direct your attention to a total pinko known as Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower, who was known to spout such gems as, "Every rocket that is fired and every bomb that is dropped signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed," and, "We have not taken and we shall not take a single backward step. There must be no second class citizens in this country," and oversaw the biggest land appropriation / public works project in the history of the country, the Interstate Highway System. Oh yeah, and this guy was a 5-Star Army general, then a Republican President, then a 5-Star Army general again.

There was also this FDR guy who did this New Deal thing you might've heard of.

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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Borgholio »

making me back up Flagg in public. ;)
Forgive me. I know how hard that must be for you. :-P
That said, I'd like to direct your attention to a total pinko known as Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower, who was known to spout such gems as, "Every rocket that is fired and every bomb that is dropped signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed," and, "We have not taken and we shall not take a single backward step. There must be no second class citizens in this country," and oversaw the biggest land appropriation / public works project in the history of the country, the Interstate Highway System. Oh yeah, and this guy was a 5-Star Army general, then a Republican President, then a 5-Star Army general again.
I never really considered Ike a socialist. I always thought he built the highway system as an evac route for cities in the event of nuclear attack, or a way to move troops based on how well the Autobahn worked for US troops during the War. That sounds a purely practical reason that even a conservative might agree with.
There was also this FDR guy who did this New Deal thing you might've heard of.
Using tax money to fund public works projects for job creation. I...guess...that could be considered socialist. But by that line of reasoning, wouldn't using public tax money for ANY common good be socialist?
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Purple »

Borgholio wrote:Using tax money to fund public works projects for job creation. I...guess...that could be considered socialist. But by that line of reasoning, wouldn't using public tax money for ANY common good be socialist?
I thought that by the definition your hardline republicans use yes, ANY common good is socialist and thus stalinist and thus evil.
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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Raw Shark »

Borgholio wrote:
That said, I'd like to direct your attention to a total pinko known as Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower, who was known to spout such gems as, "Every rocket that is fired and every bomb that is dropped signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed," and, "We have not taken and we shall not take a single backward step. There must be no second class citizens in this country," and oversaw the biggest land appropriation / public works project in the history of the country, the Interstate Highway System. Oh yeah, and this guy was a 5-Star Army general, then a Republican President, then a 5-Star Army general again.
I never really considered Ike a socialist. I always thought he built the highway system as an evac route for cities in the event of nuclear attack, or a way to move troops based on how well the Autobahn worked for US troops during the War. That sounds a purely practical reason that even a conservative might agree with.
The conservatives agreed with the ACA, too, back when they proposed it in the early 90s, but now it's "socialism."
Borgholio wrote:
There was also this FDR guy who did this New Deal thing you might've heard of.
Using tax money to fund public works projects for job creation. I...guess...that could be considered socialist. But by that line of reasoning, wouldn't using public tax money for ANY common good be socialist?
Have you heard a Republican talk about FDR in the last 10-15 years? He might as well be Karl Marx as far as they're concerned, giving rise to "entitlements" that put anything Obama has done to shame.

Point being that I think it is very dubious to claim that "Obama *is* more socialist than past presidents we've had." Obama's always been a Clintonesque business-friendly moderate, which I say as a disappointed progressive.

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Re: Revolution in the U.S.

Post by Simon_Jester »

Lord Falcon wrote:People tend to romanticize guns, not helped by Hollywood where people blasting away at endless armies of bad guys is treated as a good thing. They also treat the 2nd Amendment much like they do the bible; as something sacred that is beyond our mortal comprehension and should therefore never be questioned. As to what they could achieve... at most, I think they could cause mass riots if enough people who shouldn't have guns keep getting access to them and public shootings get even worse.
You have shown that you mostly understand the actual viewpoint of certain people you disagree with. Your observations are moderately realistic, and do not immediately jump to the most extreme conceivable consequences.

This is good. I look forward to many more such posts from you.

Anyway. I think "mass riots" will not materialize from ordinary citizens (whatever THAT) protesting the lack of gun control unless the nation decays into some kind of bizarre dystopia with hundreds of thousands of serial killers rampaging unchecked or whatever. And that really won't happen.

On the other hand, "mass riots" might materialize in response to harsh gun control enacted in the wake of escalating public shootings, if a demonstration goes sour and the demonstrators are disproportionately armed. So might assassinations of politicians (which could maybe in turn trigger riots; the killing of Martin Luther King and other civil rights figures did, after all).

While I consider mass rioting unlikely, it's at least within the bounds of possibility, whereas "RAR CAGE MATCH US Army versus all American private gun owners" is not.
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