RAR - Sauron invades our Earth

[Tribble]

Well seeing as this was after Frodo failed in his mission, Smaug is dead and Durin's Bane was been stripped from its body. As Smaug was the last dragon worth mentioning and Durin's Bane was the last Balrog known to still have a body in the Third Age, Suaron can only really rely on his Ringwraiths and regular troops.

[FaxModem1]

So, what parts of Middle Earth would each portal tie into? If, for instance, the Antartica portal ties into the Shire, that's going to be rather hard for the world's government to try and get easy access to.

Though I do have to wonder, what happens if a couple tanks decide to roll into Mordor and blast his tower down, would that have any effect or would they have to storm every castle and grab gold rings until they find the right one to dump into Mt. Doom?

[Lord Revan]

I suppose it depends on if the "Sauron can only be destroyed if the ring is cast into Mt. Doom" is accurate when faced with modern technology, seeing as the foundations of Barad-Dur were made by Sauron using his powers (he used to be a servant of the Vala of crafting pre-fall) so no known power in middle earth could destroy them.

[bilateralrope]

Was there anything special about Mt. Doom, or was it just the closest volcano to The Shire ?

[Lord Revan]

Was there anything special about Mt. Doom, or was it just the closest volcano to The Shire ?

It was the place where the One Ring was originally made.

Seeing as it's more or less at the middle of Mordor I doubt it's the closest volcano to the Shire.

[LaCroix]

Well, we don't hear about any other volcano in Middle Earth, so it might as well be... Why else call a volcano Mount Doom?

[Tiriol]

How noticeable the portals are? Are they some big, shimmering doorways filled with eldritch energy, or just a slight mirage-like effect that, once approached close enough, instantly blasts you to the other side?

And OP didn't actually specify that Sauron would go for an all-out attack at once, he's just seeking out new worlds to enslave. OP did imply it somewhat, but didn't say it outright. We don't have any reason to suspect that Sauron would simply attack with no hope of victory - in the past he's been rather careful about complete unknowns and took his sweet time establishing his empire during both Second and Third Ages, during the Third Age even moreso, having learned his own limitations pretty thoroughly in the Second Age. He might actually send spies and emissaries in first and try to figure out what to do with Earth. Unlike Morgoth, Sauron actually seems quite content with taking a long view of things and manipulate people over generations.

[Borgholio]

Yeah I did kinda imply that it'd be an all-out invasion...but you're right about Sauron, he tends to meddle a great deal first before sending in the troops. Truth be told he might only want to open one portal to begin with and see how things went. Assuming he could use his magic to get an idea of the layout of our world, where would he likely want to open up his first portal?

[LaCroix]

Just how would he meddle with us? What could a medieval warlord with a few (mediocre) magic tricks be able to give in order to gain influence? And remember, the moment he opens his portal, he can't close it, anymore - the moment people find out (and they will - you can't hold this kind of thing secret for very long in our time) , people will realize that this is middle earth, and then its O-N (with capital letters)...

You seem to forget that
1. we know what an asshole Sauron is
2. While his powers seem enticing for a middle earth peasant or even prince, his abilities and powers are nothing that anybody in first world wouldn't be able to emulate with the help of "SCIENCE!"

[Borgholio]

2. While his powers seem enticing for a middle earth peasant or even prince, his abilities and powers are nothing that anybody in first world wouldn't be able to emulate with the help of "SCIENCE!"

Have his powers ever actually been defined? We know he can mentally enslave people, he has telekinesis, the ability to read minds, etc... But is that all he can do?

[Tribble]

In the past he was also able to shape shift, though he lost that ability over time. I also believe that Mount Doom itself is under his control to an extent, as he was able to use it to provide shade for the orcs when they attacked Gondor. And as he is an "angelic spirit" of sorts he's immortal, though his body and his powers can be stripped from him.

Sauron is not known for his fighting prowess. He was second in command to Morgoth, but he was more like chief of staff rather than a front line general like Gothmog. If this were the Second Age and Sauron could assume his "fair" form, he might have a chance at brining the world under his will. Trying to play dictator would likely result in a drone missile to the face.

The thing is with the bulk of his power tied to the ring, could he be permanently defeated on our Earth? It's made pretty clear that the One Ring can only be destroyed in Mount Doom, and it's implied that it's not just about the temperature. I suppose that after we kill Sauron's body all we have to do is take a helicopter through the portal with the Ring and throw it into Mount Doom... ya, no way Sauron wins this one.

Now on the other hand if we had to face Melkor at the height if his powers I'd say we'd be pretty f&*ked.

[FaxModem1]

Another thing that needs to be addressed, why did Frodo fail in this version of Middle Earth? Was the ring stronger? Did Gollum not make it to Mt. Doom? Did Frodo simply die of a heart attack while climbing the mountain? If the ring is even more tempting or something like that, we may have problems with it.

Though, I do wonder, what can the ring do when worn by Sauron or by anyone else? Being invisible is neat, but if that's all it can do, it's rather limiting.

[Borgholio]

There are many times in which Frodo could have failed in his task. I can't count offhand how many times he escaped by the skin of his teeth. One wrong step or sneeze would be enough to bring a Nazgul right to him.

[Elheru Aran]

Sauron isn't above sneaky methods. It's quite possible that he would take stock of his situation by sending Nazgul or human agents through the portals to gather intelligence. If he's conquered Middle-Earth by this point, he's going to have plenty of slaves willing to kiss ass and go on suicide missions to somewhere "better". It's quite possible that he might be able to infiltrate a bunch of humans and keep the Orcs in reserve in order to carefully build up his game.

If he can control where he can open the portals, he'll probably go for deep woods or hard-to-reach mountains, something like that. Makes things a bit of a pain for him, but in the long run it's a better strategy because it makes it less likely that they'll be discovered and allows him to send forces through without being detected too quickly.

Ultimately the main thing to remember is that Sauron is a master of the long game. He can get impatient, but in general he's perfectly fine with poking the pie here and there and watching how things unfold before moving one way or another for best effect. He's immortal (pretty much); he has plenty of time to manipulate the situation to his benefit. I would not put it past him to simply wait a few *centuries* and slowly emplace his agents in various nations' governments and militaries, start a Church of the Dark Lord, buy up all the land surrounding his portals so he can fence them in and keep curiosity-seekers out... He was building up his power in Numenor and Middle-Earth for something like almost 3000 years before Iluvatar foiled his plans by drowning the island and he got his ass kicked by the Last Alliance.

The only two things that can really throw a wrench in his plans are if the portals are found before he can put them into motion, and if he's a complete bone-head (not unknown... but not likely). The only reason Frodo succeeded was sheer luck (or divine intervention)-- something Sauron couldn't have figured on. Without that, Middle-Earth would've been doomed as the odds were overwhelming against them. He could've stood to put an armed guard on Mount Doom... but did he really have any reason to?

Fax: The One Ring basically amplifies his power by a massive amount and with it he can exert control over all the other Rings of Power and their bearers. If he's managed to conquer Middle-Earth and the bearers of the Elf-Rings haven't gotten away, he may have those as well as the Dwarf Rings and the Rings of Men. A viable tactic for him could well be quietly giving Rings to various world leaders. He's got 19 if he's willing to sacrifice all his Nazgul, 18 if he keeps at least the Witch-King. Even if he only uses the Elven and Dwarven rings, that's 10. Russia, USA, China, UK, France, India, Germany... for starters.

Of course, this assumes the Rings will work for races other than those wearing them. But Sauron was Maiar, yet the Ring worked for whomever held it, just not as well. It's quite possible the other Rings have that same power. As long as he can influence and pervert the will of the wearer, that's good enough for him.

Minor edit while I'm looking at Wikipedia; there aren't as many Dwarf rings as I thought. Only three left, apparently. Still, he can probably make more as needed; he made the One entirely by himself and helped the Elves make the rest. The Three were the only ones he didn't touch, but the Elves' reluctance to use them other than to strengthen their domains suggests that he may still have some power or control over them.

[Elheru Aran]

TLDR version of my post: I don't think he'd just launch waves of Orcs through his portals. He knows that way destruction lies. He has two main tactics: patience and infiltration. He didn't send an army to tear Middle-Earth apart to find the Ring, he just sat tight until it turned up and kept busy building alliances and amassing his armies in the meantime. He used the Nazgul and others to recon for him, turned traitors to his cause from various folk, and in the case of Numenor, kissed ass and became best buddies with the King, started a new religion and was sitting cozy in no time.

There is no reason to assume he's going to just go full-out "This is MORDOR" when the data shows fairly clearly that's not what he does. He waits and waits and builds up an overwhelming advantage that he finally releases when the moment is right. Why do all the work of conquest when you can just get the world's leaders to cozy up to you with a little work anyway?

[Tiriol]

Just how would he meddle with us? What could a medieval warlord with a few (mediocre) magic tricks be able to give in order to gain influence? And remember, the moment he opens his portal, he can't close it, anymore - the moment people find out (and they will - you can't hold this kind of thing secret for very long in our time) , people will realize that this is middle earth, and then its O-N (with capital letters)...

You seem to forget that
1. we know what an asshole Sauron is
2. While his powers seem enticing for a middle earth peasant or even prince, his abilities and powers are nothing that anybody in first world wouldn't be able to emulate with the help of "SCIENCE!"

Yeah, a mediocre magic trick of shapeshifting (it's never said that he can't take on new forms, just that he can no longer appear fair and pleasant), mental domination, telepathy, summoning spirits of the dead etc. Most of those tricks he has actually used to a good result, even in the book: Pippin, a member of a race unusually resiliant t outside domination and temptation, was catatonic after a brief discussion with Sauron and that's when Sauron was fairly quick with him. Saruman came under his control (Gandalf makes a convincing hypothesis that Saruman didn't have much of a choice after first making contact with Sauron, that he was compelled to make reports to the Dark Tower and though he could try to lie to Sauron, even a master Wizard and a being of the same near-divine origin as Sauron himself, he couldn't do so well enough or shield his thoughts from the Dark Lord) and Denethor, who actually had an advantage with the Seeing-Stone, went insane. Sauron has enough power to make just about everyone subservient to him with very few exceptions - even during the Second Age only few had the strength and will to face Sauron with his Ring. And those were near-mythical beings when compared to the beings of the Third Age, Aragorn and Gandalf being notable exceptions.

1. We know that as readers of LotR, but Sauron's pretty good at lying. He might go for the strategy of pretending that the LotR is a major piece of propaganda and that he was portrayed unfairly. And if he sends Mannish agents first, they would pretty much think that he is a divine ruler, not a demonic overlord.
2. Tell me, what SCIENCE allows you to crush someone's willpower and turn him into a catatonic puppet parroting your words with no heed to outside world? What SCIENCE allows you to change shape or to convince your greatest enemy to make you into his closest advisor after he has defeated your army and dragged you in chains into prison? Was Saddam Hussein not SCIENCE enough for that? And how the fuck does SCIENCE make someone virtually immortal (like Sauron did with the Nazgûl - the backstory doesn't mention how long it took for them to become wraiths, but it wasn't that quick) or let him come back from the dead?

[Borgholio]

the backstory doesn't mention how long it took for them to become wraiths, but it wasn't that quick) or let him come back from the dead?

Judging by how fast Frodo was becoming a wraith after being stabbed, it might have been pretty quick. We're not talking about Saurman taking over Theoden here...we're talking about Sauron directly tapping into the life force of those wearing the other rings.

[Tiriol]

the backstory doesn't mention how long it took for them to become wraiths, but it wasn't that quick) or let him come back from the dead?

Judging by how fast Frodo was becoming a wraith after being stabbed, it might have been pretty quick. We're not talking about Saurman taking over Theoden here...we're talking about Sauron directly tapping into the life force of those wearing the other rings.

Unlikely; Frodo was stabbed with a weapon specifically designed to turn its victim into a wraith quickly. The Nazgûl were given Rings of Power which prolonged their lives to an unnatural extent. Gollum spent centuries going about his business under the Misty Mountains without suddenly needing a cloak to have some physical form and Isildur didn't turn into a wraith, either, despite having the Ring with him with it still being hot from the touch of Sauron (and Isildur, unlike Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo etc. was indeed a Man who didn't have the same innate resistance to the Ring's temptations). Rings of Power aren't Instant Wraith Generators (tm).

[Borgholio]

I think there's a big difference between carrying the One Ring, and wearing a ring of power linked directly to the will of Sauron.

[Tiriol]

I think there's a big difference between carrying the One Ring, and wearing a ring of power linked directly to the will of Sauron.

The One Ring has much closer connection Sauron than any other Ring of Power. It was made by Sauron alone and he poured his power into it to such extent that the Ring seems to be a being with its own will and desires. We don't know much about the other Rings of Power, besides a very general briefing we get in LotR, Silmarillion and other sources. Apparently the Nine Rings gave their users the ability to walk unseen and learn many secrets, but the Silmarillion, at least to my memory, outright states that most of those secrets were mere phantasms of Sauron's design. There would be no point in designing the Rings to show a shadow world if they were insta-wraith machines.

[Elheru Aran]

Bear in mind that Sauron made the One specifically for himself, and he may have made the Rings with their bearers in mind, although I don't know if Tolkien ever said so. He would have made it so that the One would only unlock its fullest potential for him specifically. Other wearers could derive some fringe benefits such as invisibility and longevity, but ultimately it's like having a doctorate and using it to get a job flipping burgers without ever being able to use it to succeed in life.

The Nine were a 'shadow' of the power of the One. The Rings of Men may or may not have augmented the powers that the Kings of Men already had, but they still had a certain power of their own beyond bending the wills of their bearers to Sauron's.

And there is little or nothing stopping Sauron from simply making more rings as he wishes to distribute, with powers as he wishes them to be. Unfortunately this is unquantifiable, although I do see it as a viable tactic were I in Sauron's size 20's.

[Tribble]

One of the constraints in the Tolkien universe is that whenever beings (apart from God) create and/or try to destroy something, they have to put some of their own power into it. Examples being the two trees, the Simarils, and Morgoth's various creations etc. Sauron did not make most of the rings of power; he merely acted as a guide and infused a bit of his own power into the seven and the nine in order to corrupt them. The amount of energy he expended in those cases was relatively small, as the elves were doing most of the work. However, in order to control the Three Rings he was forced to put the vast majority of his remaining power into the One Ring. No other Rings of Power were made after the One, even though Sauron clearly knew how to create them (Saurman's ring is not counted, presumably because it's powers, if any, were only the equivalent to one of the lesser rings). IMO after creating the One Ring Sauron didn't have enough residual power left to create another Ring of Power on his own, even if he wanted to. I doubt he would want to anyways because he already has control of all the other Rings of Power and he wouldn't want to risk significantly weakening himself further just for the sake of having a couple extra rings handy.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

The problem with Sauron's prospects for domination through manipulation is that the ability to seduce, influence, and even dominate minds is a power that many groups in the real world already have, but instead of magic, they do it with political influence and millions of dollars in campaign financing. Even if Sauron were able to turn the most powerful heads of state, their power and influence would rapidly dwindle if they started to deviate from the agendas of politically connected, moneyed interests. Sauron can't really do anything that someone like Rupert Murdoch can't do better, and even he doesn't always get his way.

[Tiriol]

The problem with Sauron's prospects for domination through manipulation is that the ability to seduce, influence, and even dominate minds is a power that many groups in the real world already have, but instead of magic, they do it with political influence and millions of dollars in campaign financing. Even if Sauron were able to turn the most powerful heads of state, their power and influence would rapidly dwindle if they started to deviate from the agendas of politically connected, moneyed interests. Sauron can't really do anything that someone like Rupert Murdoch can't do better, and even he doesn't always get his way.

Yes he can. Many groups in Middle-earth also had money and political influence and Sauron out-did many of them. And it's clear that Sauron doesn't need to make someone into an obvious puppet - Saruman was already harboring ambitions of his own when he came into contact with Sauron, but it was pretty fast track from there into being Sauron's "ally" and basically a servant. And it still took over fifty years for Gandalf or anyone else to notice anything truly odd about Saruman and they hadn't even realized beforehand that Saruman was up to something nefarious.

Sauron doesn't need to go for full throttle, whether in warfare (which he would lose, badly) or in insidious corruption. The guy spent centuries conning the Elven-smiths into making Rings of Power and almost two thousand years building up his power base in the Third Age. Even when he could not take a fair form again, he still managed to gather a huge empire in the Third Age and turn Men with free will into his willing servants. It's not going to be easy, sure, but on the other hand Sauron, unlike our manipulators, power brokers and politicians, doesn't need to worry about growing old nor does he need to set his sights mere decades ahead. We are talking about centuries or millenia.

Sauron has the personal strength to dominate any lesser mind that comes across, he is a skilled manipulator in his own right and he is not so stupid as to NOT employ messengers and heralds who don't look like freak shows. And he does understand the value of wealth, since it's mentioned that he does do some form of taxation. With his Ring he becomes a lot more powerful.

If he decides to go for a full frontal assault, there's no hope in hell for the hosts of Mordor. If the portals are obvious/Sauron can't hide them, things are going to be extremely difficult for him in any case, since people are going to notice that Mordor is a hell-hole and that it has freaky monsters living in it. But if he's not stupid enough to stage an invasion without knowing the capabilities of his enemies and he manages to hide portals or at least limit access to them in some way, he will have plenty of time to do his manipulation thing.

[LaCroix]

You danced around my statements quite well, but still, being able to shift your shape, dominate the will of one person, cast a shadow over land, etc, are not that great magic feats, after all, and still, what would be a gain of having Sauron on your side?

Bending the will of a person? Nice, but with money, you can buy as much influence as you want to.
Military power - which was the base motivator for most who joined him (they knew he would win, anyway, as Saruman stated) - not possible - his armies are outdated and almost useless.
The most he would have to offer is the OP-related power to open portals, but since these things are a permanent thing and would need Middle Earth as relay station, they are only useful in a mass transit way.

Lokking at that, I can see that Sauron could make a nice sum of money collecting toll for inter-continental travellers - step throug one portal from NYC to ME, step through another and end up in London. Still, I doubt countries would like such an 'open border' with everyone who joins that network.