Who'd like to visit LHC in 2014? (Mostly for EU members)

[K. A. Pital]

Currently thinking about gathering a group of people to visit the LHC and other CERN facilities.

As you probably know the entrance is free, sans the travel expenses to Geneve, but the group needs to be fairly big to actually get a shot at seeing the most interesting bits and maybe even going underground. One also has to book the visit at CERN six months in advance or more.

If anyone has been thinking about doing such a visit, why not coordinate our efforts?

In case of US-based members, drop me a PM - we could arrange free stay in Frankfurt for some days.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I'm hoping to get accepted into a uni program for the same here. Can normal people visit it?

[Lord Revan]

what kind of expenses would we be talking about since atm I don't have much in way of income and while seeing the LHC would nice for my studies, there's a limit what I can do (even if I ask for my parents to help me) and I'd assume getting enough cash to fly to Switzerland from Finland isn't gonna be cheap by any standards.

[Steel]

I went last week. Absolutely great, really cool to see inside everywhere. As its the shutdown at the moment we got to go around all the bits, saw inside the control room and them main chamber of the CMS, which is absolutely vast despite being only 1/8 the size of ATLAS.

The day was a talk about the general point of particle physics, then a tour of the facility where they assemble and test the accelerator sections and the superconducting coils and a look at and feel of some spare bits and then we got a minibus out to the CMS (about a 15 minute drive as the LHC is so massive) had a look in the control room and then went down the 100m lift to the actual experiment and got to see the CMS. The CMS was opened up and undergoing maintenance so we could see into the heart of it. Staggering quantity of cabling and metal going into it.

I was with some people I know who are doing their PhDs there, so I have no idea about anything organisational as they handled everything, but they said they didn't really have to do much to set it up. Apparently it is all completely open and free to the public.

Only thing I couldn't understand was that when we were 100m underground, and under a 2.5m thick concrete and steel radiation shield directly above on the surface I still had signal on my phone, yet if I'm more than 2 feet from a window in my lab I'm completely cut off...

Geneva is very expensive to do anything, a coffee costs about 7CHF and that seems reasonable compared to other things.

[K. A. Pital]

what kind of expenses would we be talking about since atm I don't have much in way of income and while seeing the LHC would nice for my studies, there's a limit what I can do (even if I ask for my parents to help me) and I'd assume getting enough cash to fly to Switzerland from Finland isn't gonna be cheap by any standards.

I would say that by setting up a low-cost flight and carefully picking airports in advance one can reduce the travel expenses (looking for discount tickets at KLM and Lufthansa might also help). However, staying and eating in Geneve isn't going to be cheap - but there's also no need to stay there for a long time.

I went last week. Absolutely great, really cool to see inside everywhere. As its the shutdown at the moment we got to go around all the bits, saw inside the control room and them main chamber of the CMS, which is absolutely vast despite being only 1/8 the size of ATLAS.

Nice! How large was your group, if I may ask?

[fgalkin]

what kind of expenses would we be talking about since atm I don't have much in way of income and while seeing the LHC would nice for my studies, there's a limit what I can do (even if I ask for my parents to help me) and I'd assume getting enough cash to fly to Switzerland from Finland isn't gonna be cheap by any standards.

I would say that by setting up a low-cost flight and carefully picking airports in advance one can reduce the travel expenses (looking for discount tickets at KLM and Lufthansa might also help). However, staying and eating in Geneve isn't going to be cheap - but there's also no need to stay there for a long time.

If he's a EU citizen, it might be cheaper for him to stay over the border in France and only go to Geneva for the actual visit.

Switzerland is insanely expensive, especially for a tourist who needs to eat out every day (even most Swiss cannot afford to do that- an appetizer + entrée + drink at an ordinary restaurant will cost between 30-50 CHF, a cheap kebob or a McDonalds burger runs between 7-10 CHF).

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Lord Revan]

I'm EU citizen (a finn to be exact), so that might be possible, ofc it would help if I knew french as the locals wouldn't probably like people talking to them in english (and speaking finnish is not an option really). One of my cousin might live in that area of France though I'd have to check (and make sure she's ok with helping me out).

[Eternal_Freedom]

I would certainly be interested in such a trip (UK resident). We had planned to go toCERN as a uni trip but that never materialized.

[Stark]

Switzerland is insanely expensive, especially for a tourist who needs to eat out every day (even most Swiss cannot afford to do that- an appetizer + entrée + drink at an ordinary restaurant will cost between 30-50 CHF, a cheap kebob or a McDonalds burger runs between 7-10 CHF).

That's pretty much what it costs to eat at a cafe or whatever in AU, and the exchange rate is nearly parity. At least we get chips with our $9 burgers. :V

[fgalkin]

I'm EU citizen (a finn to be exact), so that might be possible, ofc it would help if I knew french as the locals wouldn't probably like people talking to them in english (and speaking finnish is not an option really). One of my cousin might live in that area of France though I'd have to check (and make sure she's ok with helping me out).

While everyone speaks English in Zurich, I do not know how true this is in Geneva, so it might be the same. On the other hand, the locals in the French towns outside Geneva are probably used to foreign tourists and so may or may not display the usual hostility towards the English language. Has anyone on this board been to Geneva to confirm this?

As for the daily budget you'll need, a cheap hostel room runs between 25-30 CHF a night, plus another 20ish for meals and 10 or so for transport. Plane tickets from Finland will probably run around $300. http://www.kayak.com/ is a good site to look for deals on airfare.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[fgalkin]

Switzerland is insanely expensive, especially for a tourist who needs to eat out every day (even most Swiss cannot afford to do that- an appetizer + entrée + drink at an ordinary restaurant will cost between 30-50 CHF, a cheap kebob or a McDonalds burger runs between 7-10 CHF).

That's pretty much what it costs to eat at a cafe or whatever in AU, and the exchange rate is nearly parity. At least we get chips with our $9 burgers. :V

If you look at the list of most expensive cities in the world, you'll find Zurich and Geneva jockeying for positions in the top 10 with Sydney and Melbourne and Tokyo and Singapore, with changes being brought on in fluctuations in exchange rates. For example, last year, Zurich has been the most expensive city on the planet, but then the Swiss Franc fell and now Tokyo is on top and it is only 7th.

EDIT: Cost of Living Comparison between Sydney and Geneva

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Stark]

Where are those prices from? I dunno what 'inexpensive restaurant' means, but there are parts of town where you won't get a shitty cafe breakfast for much cheaper than that. Anyway, I don't want to derail this much more interesting thread, but thanks for linking me to that site.

[phongn]

I actually work with LHC data part-time. I have a few contacts with CERN; the accelerator should still be shut down in 2014 so maybe we'd be able to get a look at CMS or something.

(And yes, they are amazing machines. I've been inside DØ and CDF at Fermilab).

[PeZook]

God how I'd love to...but alas, for the price of a quick hop over to Geneva I could go on a weeklong vacation with my entire family while renting a penthouse in the mountains, so...another day, perhaps

[madd0ct0r]

ooh this is tempting. just need to sell it to the wife...

[K. A. Pital]

God how I'd love to...but alas, for the price of a quick hop over to Geneva I could go on a weeklong vacation with my entire family while renting a penthouse in the mountains, so...another day, perhaps

Come on, man Like fgalkin said, there's no need to stay in Geneva proper.

[D.Turtle]

I'd be up for it. I'd have to check if flying or train travel is cheaper from the Ruhrgebiet, and would also definitely be interested in finding ways to keep it cheap, but otherwise it shouldn't be too difficult to come along.

[Steel]

I went with about a dozen people. The group we met on the way in as they were leaving was abot 10 people as well.

Travel to CERN itself is easy from Geneva, theres the no 18 tram that takes 20 minutes from the centre of town and goes regularly and costs 7CHF for a ticket that gives you an hour of travel on any transpor in the city.

[K. A. Pital]

FYI (since I'm getting PMs about it) - so far we were thinking about (early?) spring 2014 as the optimal time, but it can be discussed.

Late winter, if the majority so decides, is also possible, though of course spring is... warmer and thus nicer

I'd have to check if flying or train travel is cheaper from the Ruhrgebiet, and would also definitely be interested in finding ways to keep it cheap...

The dates for CERN visits anyway need to be settled well in advance, which then gives you the option of getting those nice 39 Euro train tickets from, say, Bochum to Geneva.

Also these seem to be the most helpful "eat el cheapo" guides (I've tried similar ones for Amsterdam and I must say I was not dissappointed!)

http://goeurope.about.com/od/geneva/a/g ... p-eats.htm
http://geneva.patch.com/columns/10-unde ... -in-geneva

[PeZook]

Come on, man Like fgalkin said, there's no need to stay in Geneva proper.

I was barely able to afford two days in Paris. Seriously, a 10 CHF burger is what I pay for a meal for two in Poland. And all the air and railway connections to Geneva from my place of residence SUCK, even if I wanted to book tickets literally a year in advance.

[K. A. Pital]

I was barely able to afford two days in Paris. Seriously, a 10 CHF burger is what I pay for a meal for two in Poland.

There are 15 CHF pizzas and stuff like that. Besides, the way we envisioned it is using something like airbnb to grab a nice huge apartment or two, or perhaps a house, that'd be cheaper for the group.

We also had some troubles in Paris this new year, but that was just due to us being unprepared and not mapping cheap eateries in advance

And all the air and railway connections to Geneva from my place of residence SUCK, even if I wanted to book tickets literally a year in advance.

Hmm... But how'd you know? When I see DB's offers from Gdansk, I get 89 Euros p.p. to Frankfurt, then 39-49 Euros p.p. to Geneve a few months ahead (May 16th to be precise). The connection is not too bad either, you take the EC at 7 am, then get to FFM at 6 pm. From us to Geneva the time would be around 5 hours.

My query.

[PeZook]

Hm...haven't considered that route. Lemme check.

EDIT: Right, so for two people that's 11 hours to Frankfurt , 178 EUR w/2 transfers along the way ; Then further six hours to Geneve w/3 transfers, another 178 EUR.

712 EUR total for a return trip, for the priviledge of a 17 hour train trip...sorry, as awesome as you guys are, I just...no

It would actually be cheaper to fly SAS directly to Geneva, but that's still too expensive for me, and that's without food and accomodation. As I wrote, in Poland I can get myself a week-long vacation in a penthouse for that price.

Now IF the wind changes and my finances improve in the future, I'll definitely go, in a hearbeat, but this just isn't economical right now. Sorries.

[K. A. Pital]

One could do FFM-Geneve for 39 Eur pp if you pick the right train with just one change in Basel, but I see your point. Even the cheapest and best picked trains give you 512 Eur round trip for two people - way more than a return flight. Sometimes I forget how crazy Western European prices really are.

It's a damn long time till 2014, though...

Remember, I still owe you a beer, and now I also have a beer that's worth it. Cause technically speaking that little bit of help on your side eventually paved the way for my current European residence.

[PeZook]

Oh, come on, it was nothing.

And yeah, it's a long way till 2014 ; Circumstances change and, who knows

I will keep this in mind throughout!

[Ace Pace]

I'd rather not be a limiter, but if it's late winter as in "still ski-season", I can reasonably expect to join in.