Living at the poverty line

[madd0ct0r]

the wife and I record all outgoing expenses in a spreadsheet. Pretty easy. when you buy something, scribble it on the receipt, pin the receipt to the notice board, every few days type them all in.

It means at any one time you know how much has gone out, and how much you have left*. Our expenditure hasn't really reduced, but we've optimized within that level so we actually live pretty well. It also helps you frame stuff as 'essential, important and frivolous', and see that your spending on 'frivolous' stuff is pretty insignificant, so stop beating yourself up.

*I get paid every 2-3 months, so management was pretty important before wifey got her job too. At least being UK means we don't have to worry about a lot of the BIG expenses Americans get hit by.

[Elheru Aran]

$200 left after budgeting?

Okay... forget 'poverty line' or whatever. You have your expenses taken care of and then some. That's not poverty, in my book-- poverty is, to me, when you don't have money to pay for your basic needs (shelter, energy, water, food).

Best advice? Put away part of that $200 each month (I'd suggest at least half) and enjoy the rest. There's a lot of people out there who don't have even $2 to put away. It's savings that will make a huge difference in your life if you ever go through hardship, and trust me, it'll happen eventually, or there'll be something you want to pay for... car, computer, engagement ring, who knows? So financially, focus on saving. That's the biggest thing you can do right now, I think, beyond trying to make more money and move upward, of course.

[Surlethe]

Life at the poverty line ain't bad! For a couple of years, my wife and I and our infant daughter got by on ~$7000/yr. Strategies: live in a cheap town, don't own a car, buy food in bulk, don't eat out, cheap cell plans, etc. Obviously some deprivation, but at the same time we had fun and weren't starving. If you're single, healthy, and youngish, you should be pretty much fine on $10-12k/yr. Be aware of poverty traps like food stamps or Medicaid, and definitely make sure to use birth control -- based on common sense and experience, a comfortable (if not luxurious) life at the poverty line becomes incredibly stressful when you add a baby to the mix.

[Stormin]

Invest the money in stuff that saves money later. I paid over a hundred for a pair of shoes expecting that I was wasting money. They're still going very well and have outright saved me more than twice their value based on how many cheaper pairs of shoes I've gone through before I got them.
Another really good one is to get qualified to do stuff. Take courses which will either allow you to upgrade your payscale where you work or get a job quickly if yours suddenly vanishes.

[fuzzymillipede]

Well it's happening now. I am officially living below the line. I moved in with some people on Craigslist and now my monthly budget looks like this:

$500 rent/utilities/internet
$100 food
$100 misc/entertainment

That's $700/month total, or $8400/year which puts me significantly below the poverty line. I'm glad I have benefits which cover my transportation and healthcare costs.

[Lord Pounder]

Cry me a river dickwad. If you can budget $100 for entertainment and still have $200 over you are doing alright.

I've been on benefits while on a new training program for the last 6 months and my partner is on disability. Me and my partner between us have -€50 per month after we pay for the essentials. We don't bitch, cry or moan. We deal with it, so should you.

[salm]

He doesn´t seem to be bitching...

[Lagmonster]

I've always been amused by the discussion about "how much you can have, before it's no longer socially acceptable to complain about how much you don't have". No matter where you are in life, there's always someone who is older, sicker, fatter, or poorer than the worst-off guy in your peer group, and who's ready and willing to challenge you to yield to his superior brand of suffering.

[fgalkin]

Fuzzymillipede, weren't you complaining recently that you were earning six figures while not having anything to do at your job?

EDIT: Yes you did.Right here. And that was AFTER you started this thread.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[fuzzymillipede]

Cry me a river dickwad. If you can budget $100 for entertainment and still have $200 over you are doing alright.

I've been on benefits while on a new training program for the last 6 months and my partner is on disability. Me and my partner between us have -€50 per month after we pay for the essentials. We don't bitch, cry or moan. We deal with it, so should you.

I'm not complaining, I'm actually very happy about how things are going for me. My housemates are super nice, my room is spotless, my commute is less than what it has been in the past, and I'm eating good, healthy food. I've got plenty of friends and a lot of fun activities planned for the summer. My performance review was excellent and I'm doing well at my job.

The reason this topic exists was that I was wondering if I can be happy while spending very little, the answer so far has been yes.

-Edit-

And to respond to you directly, fgalkin, yes I am living below my means. I intentionally made no mention of my employment in this topic because I knew it would just derail the conversation.

[salm]

I´ve been doing this for years. I earn good money but spend only about what you are spending in Euros.
Not because I´m somehow trying to live as cheap as possible but simply because I really don´t know what I´d want to spend it on.
It´s become even more drastic since my girlfriend and me moved into the same appartement because we both now spend less on food and mobility.

Meanwhile the cash keeps piling up on my bank account.

[fgalkin]

And to respond to you directly, fgalkin, yes I am living below my means. I intentionally made no mention of my employment in this topic because I knew it would just derail the conversation.

So, you're not actually living at the poverty line, you're just slumming.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Scrib]

I've always been amused by the discussion about "how much you can have, before it's no longer socially acceptable to complain about how much you don't have". No matter where you are in life, there's always someone who is older, sicker, fatter, or poorer than the worst-off guy in your peer group, and who's ready and willing to challenge you to yield to his superior brand of suffering.

It's funny how one can be scolded for statements of fact when the dressing down is usually preceded by the scolder's own tales of woe after which he will helpfully tell us that he wasn't in any way shape or form "whining" (because that's bad mmkay?) unlike the softie on his bad side.

[fuzzymillipede]

So, you're not actually living at the poverty line, you're just slumming.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I beg to differ. My income doesn't change my lifestyle, my spending does. Everything I own, where I live, what I eat, what I do for fun... Those things came from what I spend. My income is just an abstract number on a computer screen.

Are you saying that even though someone earning poverty line wages could afford to live the exact same lifestyle as me, I am not living below the poverty line?

[mr friendly guy]

I´ve been doing this for years. I earn good money but spend only about what you are spending in Euros.
Not because I´m somehow trying to live as cheap as possible but simply because I really don´t know what I´d want to spend it on.
It´s become even more drastic since my girlfriend and me moved into the same appartement because we both now spend less on food and mobility.

Meanwhile the cash keeps piling up on my bank account.

I am in the a similar situation to you. Most of my discretionary spending last year was on "home renovations", but that was for stuff that was broken down, eg the fence got blown down by a wind storm, the hot water system needed to be fixed constantly and I needed a new one etc. I find myself in a paradox, where I have more money but I find I spend less on things for myself. Most probably because I see stuff which while easily affordable doesn't strike me as value for money even though I would like that item.

I beg to differ. My income doesn't change my lifestyle, my spending does. Everything I own, where I live, what I eat, what I do for fun... Those things came from what I spend. My income is just an abstract number on a computer screen.

Are you saying that even though someone earning poverty line wages could afford to live the exact same lifestyle as me, I am not living below the poverty line?

Hang on a minute, you are earning 6 figures in your early 20's and you talk about living below the poverty line? I initially found Lord Pounder's rant neither here nor there, but now I can at least see where he is coming from because there is no way your life style is going to be threaten (short of severe injury because of your country's health system) with an income of 6 figures. Heck I didn't make 6 figures until my mid 20s

[fuzzymillipede]

Hang on a minute, you are earning 6 figures in your early 20's and you talk about living below the poverty line? I initially found Lord Pounder's rant neither here nor there, but now I can at least see where he is coming from because there is no way your life style is going to be threaten (short of severe injury because of your country's health system) with an income of 6 figures. Heck I didn't make 6 figures until my mid 20s

I don't think Lord Pounder's rant was within the context of this income discussion, he posted that before fgalkin's post.

I do agree with you that there is a negative psychological effect to potentially not having enough income to support your lifestyle, which I do not have to face. Does that disqualify me from being able to say I live at the poverty line? If so, then point taken. I'm still spending $700/month.

The reason I made this topic was that I was worried that living this lifestyle would make me unhappy, however that does not appear to be happening.

[fgalkin]

Are you saying that even though someone earning poverty line wages could afford to live the exact same lifestyle as me, I am not living below the poverty line?

Yes. You have health and transportation benefits. You have savings. You're not actually poor. You're just a slumming miser.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[fuzzymillipede]

Yes. You have health and transportation benefits. You have savings. You're not actually poor. You're just a slumming miser.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Then I accept your point, that there is a psychological difference between living a "poor" lifestyle and actually being poor.

[mr friendly guy]

Maybe you should use the term "Spartan lifestyle."

[Starglider]

Then I accept your point, that there is a psychological difference between living a "poor" lifestyle and actually being poor.

It makes a huge difference. At low income you are open to huge stress about whether you can pay bills on time, whether your bank account is into overdraft and losing even more money, the feeling of dread and powerlessness about unexpected expenses, being forced to eat crap food, feeling trapped due to no money for fuel/transport, not being able to go with friends to gigs/clubs etc. This comes through in nearly every account of poverty including the ones posted here. I certainly felt it (went through a bad time several years back) and I at least had the benefit of living in a country with free healthcare and a family that would pitch in to help with a real emergency. Frankly it seems bizarre that you'd even post about 'living at the poverty line' if you're simply choosing to spend less; that isn't what poverty is.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I work full time, I still make less than I consume in medical bills

[AniThyng]

Yes. You have health and transportation benefits. You have savings. You're not actually poor. You're just a slumming miser.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Then I accept your point, that there is a psychological difference between living a "poor" lifestyle and actually being poor.

It seems somewhat callous to talk about how worried you are you might not be happy living on the cheap when all you need to do to solve the "problem" is remove your arbitrary cap on your expenses that is way below your actual income. Do you not agree?

[Broomstick]

Maybe he derives some sense of pleasure/safety/accomplishment from being able to live on such a budget, even if he doesn't have to?

If his current income really is that low then there is a certain financial prudence in living within that income rather than tapping his reserves. He's fortunate to have that reserve in case something unfortunate occurs, but if he didn't exercise that self-discipline then that reserve might no longer be there when he needs it.

[Lord Pounder]

Hang on a minute, you are earning 6 figures in your early 20's and you talk about living below the poverty line? I initially found Lord Pounder's rant neither here nor there, but now I can at least see where he is coming from because there is no way your life style is going to be threaten (short of severe injury because of your country's health system) with an income of 6 figures. Heck I didn't make 6 figures until my mid 20s

I don't think Lord Pounder's rant was within the context of this income discussion, he posted that before fgalkin's post.

Yeah because I never read the venting threads or use the search function before I dive in feet first

The fact is there is a huge grand canyon sized difference between living in near poverty and choosing to live that way. At the end of the day you will never know the stress of seeing direct debits bounce, of having to chose between purchasing a hot beverage or a long walk home in the evening, the sheer embarrassment of going to a SO's parents house because you can't afford food until the next pay packet arrives.

Perhaps you should listen to Common People by Pulp.